Weekly Scrap #205 - Jeremy Sanders, Crew First Culture

Unknown: I could do siren. Speaker 3: I I've learned to think before I speak and I'm not given a chance to think before I speak here. So I'm gonna first thing that comes up is something that we talked about right before we went on the air. Corley: I mean it's live. It's just capturing your monitor. Oh, we're live. Okay, me and me and Jeremy are live. Awesome, brother. Welcome everybody. We're working on it. We're working on some new stuff adding to the scrap. Pulling up the notes a little early. Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance, Weekly Scrap, Number 205. My guest tonight is none other Than Jeremy Sanders, most people know him best as Crew First Culture. He has served 21 years with the Edmund Fire Department in Oklahoma, where he currently holds the rank of captain. Jeremy is married to his beautiful wife, Erica, lives on a small farm just outside of Tulsa. They are the parents of eight kids. Eight kids, one grandson. In 2020, he created Crew First Culture and the Crew First Culture podcast, in which he shares the importance of the pursuit of daily personal growth and making a positive impact on those around us. My brother. Jeremy Sanders, it is my honor and pleasure to have you on as the guest of weekly scrap number 205. Welcome, my brother

Jeremy Sanders: Thanks, man. I'm excited beyond anything I can describe to be on here. Looking looking forward to it. I've looked forward to this for a long time and glad it worked out. Excited to be here with you. Corley: Dude, I love it. I've been wanting to have you. The thing is is in my head you'd always been on early. You'd have been one of the original guests. And then it's my fault kind of because one day I called you up and said, hey my guest tonight had to back out. Do you want to come on? And you came on and we kind of did a just an ad hoc. We kind of read some quotes and talked about them. It wasn't really like like what was on your topics or it was just kind of the thing we threw together. It was great, don't get me wrong, but you never got to come on and do your thing. And so in my head it you know you'd always been one of the originals. But anyway, so Jeremy Sanders: I'm I'm proud to be the first, you know, to go from pinch hitter to actual starter, you know, in in your lineup. So it's it's quite a quite a turnaround.

Corley: No, it's awesome. It is awesome. And I wish I would have done it sooner. So I'm very glad you were here. Is there anything I missed in the intro? Anything you would like to add? Jeremy Sanders: Nope, man. I'm pretty simple and basic and that's that's about it. Corley: Awesome. People are logging in. They are already making tons of comments. Sam getting things running. Sam runs everything behind the scenes. Everybody is getting to know Sam as he runs the scrap, makes it run smooth. And I threw curveballs at him right before we started. I said, Hey, let's run a pre-hype video. He goes, You got one ready? I said, No, just grab one off the internet. And so anyway, we're we're working with new stuff, making it happen, improving the quality of the stream, and adding new things. So if there's any glitches and mess-ups, it's mostly on me trying to make stuff happen. quick announcements out the gate. If you want to be a part of the Vigilantes, go to firehousevigilance. com and sign up. Become an exclusive member of the Cool Kids Club. We do so much stuff, including the after party. which we do at the end of every scrap, the scrap after party, where you can come in. The guest is always invited. So Jeremy, you're invited to the scrap after party. It's 20 minutes usually after the show is over and we sit there and have a discussion and critique how well you did. So it's a lot of fun But and that's where the vigilantes will be afterwards. Now, on to the sponsors, the OG sponsor of the scrap, Keyhose. com. And there you go. All of the sponsors out of the way. People logging in, curveballs thrown. I'm going to read a few comments as we get going. Brian Brush said could not be more fired up for this one. I witnessed his switch flip when we asked him to speak to the recruits. It's awesome. Strong mustache game coming at you. Carpe Fuego saying it. Amanda Miller saying strong mustache game. Did you get that Sea Grave? People asking questions. Great dude on here tonight from Kyle Romagus. Alright. So people are fired up. Audiences here. Audience. Kyle Romagus is fielding your questions. He is looking at him. He's looking at him in Facebook. He's looking at him in YouTube.

Corley: And he's throwing them on the laptop right here beside me. So please get them ready And throw them at Kyle so we can throw them at Jeremy. And with all that being said, let's kick it off. Let's go. I'm super excited. I always ask my guests what topics would you like to talk about. And right out the gate We are perfectly made for an exceptional purpose. And I love the statement you sent me. And I want to I want to just kind of start right there and see where you want to go with it. Jeremy Sanders: Man, I kinda I tried to kind of describe it a little bit or or put some words to it when I sent that to you because it's kind of a weird thing. You know, you you just get these thoughts in your head and And sometimes they're just things that you need to write down because they become something else in the future. But sometimes it's like, man, there there is something to this. You know, I I don't know what it is. You know, I don't I don't know if this is a beginning of a of a new class or or or or what, but those words have kind of come to me here recently. And, you know, we're going to get into, I'm sure, a lot of kind of the workings behind the scenes of all that, but 2023 has been a really really weird year for me and you know some ups and downs and and goods and bads and it seems like so many times purpose and middle resiliency and connection and and you know a lot of different things keep keep coming up, keep keep hitting me in the face. And purpose has really become something that, man, I just I feel so attached to. So driven by to to explore and to really kind of get other people involved in in what they have as a purpose. And so to me That's kind of how that evolved is is we are all perfectly made for an extraordinary purpose. And as screwed up as we all might be and as as much as I mess up and many mistakes as is I make and and how much better I wish I was, I am still perfectly made for the purpose that I was sent here to do.

Jeremy Sanders: And that's not just a a run-of-the-mill purpose. It's an extraordinary purpose. And that's not me. That's that's all of us. We are all here perfectly given everything that we needed to fulfill that purpose. But you know there's a lot of work to get to the point where you even know what that is and and and get to the you know get to where you can actually do some good with it. That's kind of where it came from. I I again I don't know I don't know what it is yet, but like you said, it it just it really speaks to me. And I think there's something with it that that needs to be kind of drawn out for sure Corley: No, I love it. And when you ask, and when you say purpose, because I love the word purpose and I want to dig in on it, are you are you talking a specific like Or individual. Like everybody's as individual and different, or is there a shared purpose? Or is it something you're still working through and figuring out? Jeremy Sanders: No, I I I mean Purpose in general, obviously any anything that you can tie purpose to, you're gonna be in a good shape. You're gonna be in good shape, whether it's you have a purpose that your crew kind of knows and and goes by and and and searches for, pursues all that. But for me Really what I'm talking about and really what I really have dug into a lot is is just our individual purpose. You know, just truly figuring out what it is that we are here for. And, you know, it's I I get that it's probably been so overly just trivialized and and commercialized by the movies and TV of life's purpose and finding out you know what all that but It it's so mu it's so deeper than just the surface crap of of what's the meaning of life and and all that. I I truly believe that We have all obviously lived different lives. We've all had different stories, different challenges, different everything, different opportunities. And each of us comes into today with an amazing array of material and stories and experiences that we can share. to make a difference in other people's lives. And I feel like, you know, that that might not sum up everybody's purpose exactly.

Jeremy Sanders: Right. It's pretty close to what I would say mine is. But if you can start getting an idea of of how your role plays in that, where do you where you're impacting others' lives, where you're making a difference in other people's lives. That's what I'm talking about. Just truly making a difference in the people that are around you. Corley: No, I love it, man. I love it. Very passionate about it and fulfilling your purpose and finding that purpose. Have have you discovered anything that's helped you dig trying to say have you discovered anything that's helped you define your purpose or make it made it clearer for you Jeremy Sanders: Yeah, I mean it I I feel like there's definitely a wouldn't say a recipe, but there's definitely some things that you're gonna have to do. A lot of it is just reflection, just some honest self-reflection. I feel like you almost kind of got to figure out who you are first. If you don't know who you are or what you stand for. You're definitely not going to get to the point of what you're doing here and why why you are are here to to serve what purpose. And so just Just reflecting on on who you are, coming up with an identity that that you feel comfortable with. And something else with that is an identity that isn't in something that can be taken away. You know, a lot of us We we love the fire service so much and it's such a an addictive thing sometimes to people and and I do too. I truly do But when we wrap our identity up completely in being a firefighter, that that's something that can be taken away. And so if if that's all you have, if that's all you've ever been is a firefighter and one day you're not. Then what are you? You're left with a huge hole right away that is going to cause you some issues. So I am a firefighter. I love being a firefighter. I cannot imagine doing anything else. I'm not equipped to do anything else. But It's really just a vehicle that has helped me to pursue other things like growth and connection with others and networking and and my purpose. And so that's kind of. you know that identity piece of it is truly figuring out who you are.

Jeremy Sanders: And then I I think one of the the easiest things and I I believe of Steve Harvey. I I I watch a lot of videos and And listen to a lot of stuff. You know, I listen to a lot of audiobooks and things like that. But Steve Harvey, I think on one of them said, you know, to to start discovering what your purpose is, just look at what you do. exceptionally well like what you do the best with the least amount of effort and energy and that'll kind of tell you what you at least give you a starting point and so I think that's I think there's a lot to be said about that. Right. Especially if there are good things associated with that. And so that I think, you know, just a few of those things right there is a definitely a good start to to figuring that out. I love it. Corley: I really do love it. I love the message behind it. purpose driven. Ready for your first question coming from the audience. All right. First curveball coming at you. James Butchelisco wants to know, Jeremy, every firefighter, let alone every fire officer, is faced with situations where they may have to display moral courage. As a captain, can you give us an example when you had to display moral courage and advice on how to handle it?

Jeremy Sanders: Moral courage. Man, this these this is a question you need like a an hour or two to sit there thinking about it. Corley: Just to dri j just to break it down. Jeremy Sanders: Yeah, yeah, just to I'm glad you start off with a really easy question. Corley: St. James. Coming out of India Indianapolis. Go ahead. Jeremy Sanders: Man, I I think I think that first of all, going back to that identity, if if we don't have that solid foundation of knowing who we are, what we stand for, what we can bend on, what we can't. then when it comes to these situations, which is obviously a pretty touchy situation, our chances of making the right choice or doing the right thing are going to be very limited. very small because we haven't done that work up up front so so definitely doing that work ahead of time so that when those things come up It's almost like your muscle memory for your you know your your moral thinking type compass type issue, but To be honest, my mind does not think that quickly on something like this. I'm not saying that there hasn't been anything, but for me, I think And I'll just throw something out there to at least answer it so I'm not copping out here, but there's been a lot of times where Even especially when I was a younger officer, I I stood up for things thinking that I was doing the right thing, thinking that I was standing up for my people. thinking that I was not going to be pushed around by administration because of some something I didn't agree with or whatever else. So to me, I viewed that as times where I don't know if you could really tie morals to it But I felt like I was standing at least on principles. You know, I was standing firm and I was being a good officer because of it Now in hindsight, I look at those situations and it's like, first of all, those those things you were complaining about and throwing a fit about, they were stupid, first of all. It didn't matter Nobody really cared. Nobody really, you know, it's not like I gained street rep for doing that. But what I guarantee you I did do is I lost a lot of voice with those people above me. You know, I I lost a lot of input.

Jeremy Sanders: chances because when you start becoming that person that that speaks out and and is always trying to to ruffle people's feathers will When you do have something important to bring up, it just gets lost in all the other stuff you've been doing. So I definitely had to learn. that even if I can justify it in my own head that I'm doing something that should be done, that is right to do. If I'm not doing it in the right ways, if I'm doing it for something that it isn't truly worth the that you know playing of the cards or or using that little bit of in the bank that I could be saving for something else. Right. Then I it doesn't need to be done. So I know I didn't directly answer the the moral aspect of it, but I feel like that is kind of tied to that for sure. Corley: No, that's awesome, man. No, there's good, there's so many, there's some good questions coming here. I like this one. It circles back to the purpose, and I want to circle back to while we're just coming off of it. Even though we had the curveball in between. Carpe Fuego says, do you feel that there is an aspect to being an officer that requires you to draw out each crew member's individual purpose? Or is it enough to make your own vision or purpose for their crew clear? Like the purpose for the crew, or is it more about developing their individual?

Jeremy Sanders: Yes. The great answer. Just just on the surface, you know, my job as an officer is to bring a clear Well, okay, so I'm gonna back up and and and just tell a little bit of the reason why I stick with purpose. Speaker 3: Okay. Jeremy Sanders: Because it's about to come into play here. So I I get myself so twisted up on words sometimes. Like if if there's a word, if there's a couple words that mean similar. but they're completely different in some ways. I just I wrap my head around that forever. Purpose and mission have been, or I'm sorry, mission and vision have been those two words forever. I have talked to people that I truly respect that have a completely different opinion on those You know, some of them think it mission is this and some think of vision is this, and then you got others that are completely backwards. So I've just basically thrown those out. It's just purpose for me So just just to let everybody know, that's kind of what I use in the in the place of those. So going back to the question. I have to have that purpose for my crew. I have to have something for us to see as far as this is what we're striving for. This is why we're here. This is what we are trying to accomplish. So I think just in general, that's something that officers need to have. As far as just me personally, and this is not something that that I really have ever I've definitely not taken out of any classes or anything like that, bet definitely not books, but me personally, I think just as important of me as an officer is to really build my people up in in every way, not just better skills as a firefighter, better just confidence doing their jobs, but truly building better people and and working through life together, trying to figure out how to each become the best and reach each other's potential. And that goes along with it, you know, trying to figure out what I can do to to help each person in their own little way figure these things out. And and that part of it is pretty new for me, I will say. So You know, I I don't want to say anything on here that that you might talk to somebody that that I work with and they're like, well, I haven't really heard them say much about that.

Jeremy Sanders: We we talk a lot about purpose as far as the crew and you know and culture and things like that I talk a lot about connection and we spend a lot of time working on that in relationships. As far as the actual precise purpose piece of that. It is something that I am trying to kind of behind the scenes incorporate right now. You know, if I see something like, for instance, I've I've got, well, I've got several people that are really really interested and excited about EMS now and my crew. But just a few months ago, I I had one, you know, and super smart and he he just he loves the aspect of EMS, which in the fire service is like, dude, I I gotta do everything I can not to to cause him to lose this. You know, we we have to we have to keep this going because you just don't have that very often. But he he became interested in mass casualty triage type things and started talking about wanting to build a class and and build protocol and things like that for our department and So that right there is like alarms going off. It's like this is something that I need to try to facilitate whatever I can do. Not that I'm going to do it for him. Or even with him, but I'm definitely going to see what I can do to to maybe kind of keep him going in it, keep him motivated. Right, right. Encourage him. So yeah, and that that's kind of kind of my I guess my take on that. I think they're both very, very important of the company officer.

Corley: No, beautiful. Beautiful answer. Beautiful question. Please keep the questions coming. I like throwing them at Jeremy and keeping him on his toes. Timothy Wood wants to know, how young is too young to be an officer? Jeremy Sanders: Oh man. Corley: Nothing but curveballs, baby. Nothing but turnballs. Jeremy Sanders: Lee. I I don't I don't know there is an age on anything. You know, I I I remember being asked when I was new, I think I had a year on or so. And they asked me, you know, what how long do you have to be on to not be considered a new boy? You can't say that anymore, but that's what we said back then. And I just say, well, I don't know. I mean, maybe until other people come behind me, maybe until, you know, I don't know. And and really Their answer was basically it it's it's not a time frame. It has nothing to do with the amount of time you've been on, the the amount of fires you've been to, the the amount of experience that you may or may not have. It's more of a mindset thing. It's more of a maturity thing. Like a basically I'm losing the word here. IQ and EQ, emotional emotional maturity.

Corley: Okay, yeah. Jeremy Sanders: That that type of thing. And and I I truly kind of grabbed a hold of that. And I I think that you could say the same about officers. You know, we Just just looking at my department, just because that's that's what I know the most, we've got some pretty young officers. But I would say most of them. are so squared away and and have done such a good job through their career of just preparing themselves that I I don't have, I've never had any concerns about them. We've also had some some officers that are, you know, get into that job a little bit later in their career. It does not have anything to do with how comfortable, you know, I would feel working under them. I just don't think that you can really tie age to any of it. You you definitely want some experience. You definitely want to to have somebody that has has kind of worked through a few years of at least some informal leadership and and mentorship and and building building the newer people up below them And so I think that's very important. But as far as what I think is most important, it's all that behind the scene, behind you know, the the six inches between your ears type stuff that that truly makes a difference and tells you you're when you're ready.

Corley: Luke, I love it. I love the answer, man. and and a simple question, like you said, it's there's so that they keep them. Jeremy Sanders: No, there ain't no simple questions here. Corley: Carpe Fuego coming at you again says, how do you pick your battles? She hits different she goes back and forth hitting different different topics you've been touching on. But in that in that in that battle to be consistent and in that in that struggle to do the right thing, how do you pick your battles, especially when you feel like you're spinning your tires Jeremy Sanders: Well, I will say that first of all, you're going to screw up a lot. You're going to make a lot of mistakes. You're going to pick the wrong battles a lot. You're going to pick the wrong battle that you should have set out on, and now you have no energy when it comes to the real one that you need to be. standing firm on. So that that has been something that I've had to learn over and over and over again. But for me now, I think that I I just have to weigh everything. And And truly, I talk about this a lot is when I came to the station I'm at right now, there was a lot of work that had to be done. I was just a six-month captain. I had no experience. I didn't know really how to do anything. The only thing I had going for me is I knew where I wanted us to be. I knew what I wanted our crew to look like eventually And so just over time, I realized, and this wasn't because I just figured it out. It was years down the road, I realized kind of what was helpful. was that when I had that picture in my mind of of the culture that I wanted us to to build, create, maintain. I could judge everything off of that. And so if if something came up, okay, if if everybody's just freaking worn out today and and nobody's feeling training. Okay, you know, I I speak very often, very continuously about trying to stay constant, consistent with training. Every day trying to do something. But there are days when it just doesn't happen. That I my job is to minimize those the very best I can. And thankfully now I've got a crew full of people that that kind of help me.

Jeremy Sanders: maintain that when I'm not feeling it. But some days it's just that's just the right thing to do. Just You know, maybe we'll sit and have 30, 45 minutes extra at breakfast at the table that we're just talking and communicating and connecting You know what? If that's what we get done that day, and you know, you could just tell that this is not a good time to to really push anything with everybody. I okay, that's good. You know, there are days where where we've just been worn out with calls and things like that. Get towards the end of the day, you don't have any training done, but we go play some cornhole. And man, that brings us together and we enjoy that and that that builds camaraderie and unity. And that's a huge win. And so I I've I've learned that I have to be okay with that. I've learned that Nothing just goes by the book. You do have to weigh the the conditions of these choices. And so When I am looking at that, we're looking at something that, you know, is this something I want to fight or is this something that I think can can be okay Right here. I think it's just judging it off of that that vision and that that purpose for the crew or for yourself. If it's going to get me further away from that, then then I don't need to do it or I need to stand against it, whatever it is to stop it. If it's going to get me closer to it, then I need to focus on putting energy into it. I need to accomplish that And so that's kind of just been my meter to to kind of help me stay as close to on track as I can. Because like I said, man, I I don't know how to do this stuff. I don't know how to rebuild the culture. I don't know how to truly create an amazing crew. I've just been lucky enough to to kind of figure it out a little bit over time with some other great people. But that's been a very good tool that we've used to do that. Awesome.

Corley: No, and he said any and and is one of those things where you can dig get frustrated with yourself because you feel like you're not hitting those things because you some of the things you don't feel like count, you know, like I didn't get enough stuff done today and you're harder on yourself Because you feel like you let them that, you know, that just holding that bar and you gotta recognize what actually matters. Jeremy Sanders: And to be honest, you know, we actually had a day like this just a couple weeks ago. It was it was a weekend Which, okay, right out of the gate, you know, how many crews actually train on the weekend? And I'm not I'm not gonna fight that fight right here. But that that is a day for us. It's just a day. So we're gonna try to do something. But we didn't that day. Man, I was I was completely freaking exhausted in every way, emotionally, mentally, physically, everything. My body was hurting and I just didn't have anything. And nobody really pushed anything. And so it just didn't happen. And I truly, I took that home over four days off. And you know I I kind of took that again. I held myself personally responsible for that. And I I I really kind of beat myself up for it. But you know, I I I can't I tell my kids this all the time. I can't expect everything I do to be perfect. You know, I I can't expect to to truly never miss a beat. I'm going to have days where I just don't have it in me to push it. And if there's nobody else to to take that up then it it might get dropped. And so is that the is that what I want? Is that how I want things to happen? No, absolutely not. But you know, I I just talked to a good friend Mark Mikowski yesterday, and he kind of ended the conversation with, you know, at the end of the day, what you did today was enough And that just kind of spoke to me as that that's that's this. You know, I I didn't do what I should have, but we did have a good day. We did do some things that that had some behind the scenes you know effects that that kind of kept us together and and helped us enjoy each other and so at the end of the day that's enough right I will do better the next day but today I'm going to bed That's enough.

Jeremy Sanders: So I just and I say that not being completely a a master of that saying. I I have to I have to have that fight with myself all the time. Corley: The struggle. The eternal struggle. Jeremy Sanders: Yeah. Corley: Absolutely, man. And no, and it and it but and and it's not an excuse to just lower the bar and say, hey, it doesn't matter what we did at the end of the day, it's enough. That's not the point. But I absolutely love the mindset of that that trending upwards and hey, tomorrow's a new day. No matter what you got done today. It it it works even in the opposite, man. I don't care if you just absolutely crushed it today. Tomorrow you start over. And yeah. I mean So I love it. I love it. Okay, so many more coming at you. Well, that's a that's a that's an ongoing question. I won't throw that one on you just yet. Brent Thorne wants to know, with preparing future leaders, do you go out of your way to pick a protege or do you let them come to you? Jeremy Sanders: No, man, I I don't that this is something that I guess you could you could kind of tie it to the whole formal mentorship program type thing Which my department is is trying to establish. And man, I I'm having such a hard time wrapping my head around it. I I just don't know what to think about it. I don't know what to think about that formal aspect I don't know what to think about, you know, how your mentors and and your what I hate saying a word, but mentee, whatever, how they're picked. I just don't know. For me, I feel like I'm going to do whatever I can to try to make a difference in whoever's life I'm around. I'm going to try to, if I see a teaching moment, try to be intentional about taking advantage of that teaching moment. If I see somebody that I I see a lot of potential in and I know I can do something to help them or give them an opportunity, I'm going to be intentional about doing that and trying to offer that to them. If people come to me, then I'm more than happy to be that as well. And so I don't I don't think that I would ever just go find somebody like, hey, man.

Jeremy Sanders: I want to be your mentor. You know what I mean? And maybe that's not kind of what they meant by the question, but that's just not that's not me. I am much much more comfortable. Just being the informal person that I'll teach you what I know, but I want to learn something from you too. And that's how this is going to go. I will share everything I I have, especially, and this is where it's the most important, especially the mistakes and the things I've messed up. Because if if you're viewing mentorship as just, you know, you're telling somebody how to to further his career in good ways and and telling them your successes and all that. And you're missing so much of that boat. You gotta share all of the stuff. All of it. And maybe even more so the negative because when I share those, I'm hoping that it's going to lead into them not having to make those same mistakes as I did. I hope that I answered that question pretty well. I think it's just and we'll probably touch on it again later, but for me, the the statement planning seats, that that's been another one of those big just kind of earworms. It just has been in my head for a long time. I feel like I am responsible for planting seeds. Whatever that looks like, if it's sharing a little bit of knowledge or experience or some mistakes I made or trying to maybe inspire somebody in a particular way, all I can do is plant that seed. I have no control over what happens at that point. It's not mine to make sure that it grows or what time frame it grows, but I am responsible for planting a seed. That is my job. And so I think that is probably the best answer I can throw at that is any situation that I see a place that I can plant a seed, I am trying to be intentional constantly to do that.

Corley: In doing so. That's no, that's good. And just to let you know, there's already been quite a few max points go by from the audience. just to let you know you've been crushing the answers according to the audience so far. And I want to use that to segue into one of your topics you wanted to talk about because it's kind of on topic right now, which is using our story to make an impact on others. The importance of vulnerability and transparency, man. Two words that aren't, I mean, everybody begs for transparency, don't get me wrong, especially from their leadership, but vulnerability, especially, is not a word that's that's tossed around easily or lightly in the in the in the fire service. Jeremy Sanders: Exactly. Yeah, I man, I I have talked about this so much and I hope people that that do kind of catch a little bit of what I I put out there. I hope they don't get tired of it. But this has made such a huge impact on my life. I have to keep bringing it up because it's tied to everything. But When I met Rick George and and the the guys on his instructor cadre, the tactical resiliency training guys I was completely blown away in such an unexpected, just an unexpected way because of the combination of strength and vulner vulnerability that they possessed. And I think you you talked about two words, you know, that that or or maybe not spoken about what when you talk about two words that are completely opposite, you can't get much opposite more opposite than vulnerability and and strength.

Corley: Yes. Jeremy Sanders: you know if you looked them up in a dictionary they're basically the exact opposite vulnerability is you are capable of being hurt strength is well you're exuding something that is hopefully keeping you from getting hurt But the people that are able to master that, it is such an amazing magnetic quality that I really started to see manifest right there. But to to sit and and see these guys truly just lay their life out on the table for for brand new students that they didn't even know sharing that vulnerability because they knew by the end of this class they're going to need that vulnerability back from the students because that was a huge piece of that class. It's just, it was, man, it was it was life-changing for me to to see how incredible It made me feel towards them. I just met these people and I'm like, I I want to I want to hang out with you all the time. That's the type of people I want to be with now. I want to be with real people that They talk about real stuff and that care about the the things that other people around them are saying. And when they say, how are you doing? They're stopping and paying attention to their answer. They're not saying it as they go. They're truly connected and and involved in each other's life. And that that piece of you know that as you brought up our story and I kind of mentioned it earlier but you you can't replicate my story. You can't replicate replicate your story. It it is so unique And the crazy thing about it is no matter what in is in the the midst of all that, no matter what it's comprised of, the good, the bad, whatever. There's somebody out there that needs to hear something that you have that you've lived through. Whether it's somebody that just needs to know Okay, I'm not the only one that deals with this. Or somebody that needs to know, okay, he went through this. And and he made it, he made it out of it. He he faced this same struggle I'm facing right now. And yeah, it was a hard, hard road. And it might have taken a long time, but he did it. So I can do it. Just just having that little bit of connection with somebody that you might never know, that you might never even truly you know hear it made that kind of an impact on somebody.

Jeremy Sanders: So you you just don't know Do you do start sharing it? And I I think that going back to you know some of the station officer questions Man, if if you are a station officer and you're working off the mindset of I have to be, you know strong and steady and not show any faults and not show any mistakes or cracks so that my people will follow me. Man, I I don't want to be around you. I that's the last person I want to work with. I have to be infallible. I yeah. Yeah. That's not real. There's nobody that is going to truly embody that. It's just a persona that we're putting out there. And so I want to be with the people that are real. I want to be with the people that That say, hey, I I struggle with this too, man. This is these are some things that you know I I kind of started using some techniques that helped me. Let me show you. Or you know, whatever it is, I think that by doing that, we're setting our people up to understand it's okay to to mess up. It's okay to not be perfect. It's okay to struggle with something. Because when I am on the other end of that and and have the the unfallible persona You know, I'm probably I'm probably building up people that think they better be that way. And when they do face something that is hard You you are putting them below the water before they can even have a chance to start swimming because they don't know that that's a normal thing.

Corley: No, that's solid. Beautiful man. And it all starts with that vulnerability, that ability to just, I mean, just look in the mirror, be wrong, and and be honest. Jeremy Sanders: especially go ahead. No, well I just I know you were kind of looking at maybe in another question, but something else that that kind of goes along with that is you know when you're doing some of this reflection stuff that I talked about earlier, you know, what what were the moments that truly made you the person you are today. The moments that maybe people Didn didn't even see the moments that that truly made a difference in your life, whether that was good or bad, the things that had an impact on you. good or bad, what are those moments that that truly built you into the person you are right now? And and thinking of that stuff and and truly kind of understanding this is this is why I'm like this. This is it's this is okay. This is where this is what I have. It is what it is. And so now I have the opportunity to use it to share with somebody else. I think I think it's your almost I guess for lack of better terms, you're almost giving your weaknesses, your your failures, all of these things a purpose themselves. When you go through something that's that's bad. But you give that a purpose by using it to help others. Man, that that makes it all worth it. It's so much better than keeping it inside because then you're basically you went through it for nothing Right. You might have grown, but that's it. You know, you you aren't helping others with it. Beautiful, man.

Corley: Okay, more questions coming from the audience. and there's some good ones too buried in here. True First Culture. I mean I I I we'll dig into some of that, I'm sure. but but Adam Harrelson has a great question coming at you because I know that you've developed that that culture around your station, red shift and all and and the yeah he says the question for me is how do you spill your crew culture into the other shifts and or stations or do you need to Jeremy Sanders: another great question and another great lesson I have had to learn. The easiest way that I can answer that and probably maybe a little too stiffly, but Honestly, I don't care. I can't care. Because I I I've tried. When I do try to get outside of my bubble and affect a bigger crowd, especially You know, when you start to try to make changes or offer things to the department level and you start getting maybe turned down or maybe ignored It it truly led to a lot of frustration, a lot of bitterness and resentment. So I had to realize All I can control is my little circle, and that's it. Just just the little circle of people that are comprised within my crew. And so That being said, when I say I don't care, that's not truly what I mean. What I mean is that my focus can't be on them. My focus has to be on my my crew and what we're accomplishing. But what I hope is happening is that they see things. They they see how well we are taking care of of the rigs and the the equipment and they see how a jumped out hose load isn't okay with us. Right. And and and I hope that they don't just start taking advantage of that but they start to maybe be inspired a little bit by it, which it could go either way. And honestly, I I there's nothing we can do about it, you know. if if that's what they're going to do is is just kind of let us fix everything and At the end of the day, we're there to do a job. We're going to do a job. And we're not going to let things like that ruin our day anymore. We definitely have in the past. But we're just going to do the job that we need to do and then enjoy the rest of the day.

Jeremy Sanders: But I hope that what we're doing starts to bleed into other places, you know All you gotta do is is show people what we got going on. You know, see the interaction that we have. See the the confidence that we have, see the competence we have in the different skills, the connection and the the close bond we have And more times than not, that's going to start striking a little bit of interest in people. They're going to be like, man, you know, that looks like a fun crew to be on. Right. And that doesn't have anything to do with me. That's what we have accomplish together but I think that's more of the goal for me is to to obviously focus on us Don't worry about what happens outside of us. But at the same time, just having faith that a little bit's going to bleed out here and there You know, we we rotate through people quite a bit with personnel changes and things like that. And so sure we're we're going to have people that are with us and then they're gone. And so I feel like that's another kind of way to share that, to spread that around a little bit. Hopefully when they leave us, they take what what they got from us. They take what they got from the culture and and and the just everything that we do. And they make it better wherever they're going to go and kind of incorporate that. And so that's kind of how I I now approach that. I haven't always approached it like that. I've been very irritated at other people outside of my crew for not doing as well as they should have done as far as just taking responsibility for you know the rig or the fuel tank or the hose, whatever. Right. But again, it's just one of those things where I've had to learn to take control of that as far as my emotions and and our emotions and not allow outside aspects to affect the day that we're going to have

Corley: Beautiful. Control what you can control, lead by example, and let it bleed out where it can. I love it, man. More questions coming at you. Trying to figure out if I want to ask questions or go on to topics, but man, there's some good ones in here. we'll go with this one. This one also from Carpe Fuego. Do you I like this question? I just like to hear people to different takes on it do you think someone has to promote to make the biggest, most effective impact? Jeremy Sanders: No, not at all. And I say that very very firmly right now because I have a lot of people telling me right now that I need to promote to the next level. to make a bigger impact or a bigger difference. And I I I've truly struggled with that. I, for one, I don't want to go any further up right now. I love being a station officer I love, you know, having that relationship with a crew that I'm with all the time. Just everything that goes along with it. And I know you've talked about, you know, station officer is the best job. So I'm not, you know. Not bringing anything that you don't understand or you don't know, but for me, I just I I don't I think I agree with that. I I don't I mean I understand that the higher you go you higher you get up you're you're you may have a little bit more power in in what you know you say or or what you bring up. But I I think for me the the people at the bottom, the and and I mean firefighters, the captains, those people are the ones making the difference. Those people are the ones that are truly making the the department better. You know, if if we are doing our job, if we are getting ourselves in the the best place for for a positive outcome as we as we possibly can. If we are truly living up to the you know that oath that we took. in being here, then great things are gonna happen. That that's that's what we that's what we do. We are tied to it every day. It's it's the people that are actually doing it. And so, you know, maybe if you're talking about from an informal spot to a formal, you know officer role.

Jeremy Sanders: Yeah, there's some there's some definite things that you're going to be able to accomplish more as a officer, as a you know a lieutenant or a captain. as opposed to a firefighter driver. But to me, I I hope that no matter what your role is, I hope that no matter where You're at an organization, you have people above you that are willing to listen and to take input and to be open-minded as to to what the people below them are are bringing for because you know there's there's new things coming out all the time there's new ways of of of doing everything. You know, if if you're stuck in the ways that you learned 20 years ago in rookie school, you're so far behind. It's it's disturbing. it it you've got to be fluid and and flexible. And so I I hope that the people that are making the the the good changes, the the biggest difference, those boots on the ground. have some voices or have some people above them that are listening to those voices. Sometimes it you know a lot a lot of people don't and You know, that that sucks. I I don't really have a good answer for that except for just keep trying, keep trying, keep trying. But for me Some of the most influential people that I have been with on at the fire service have been below me in rank. One of the biggest mentors of my life that we'll get into later. is is less or whatever you call it is a bul is a rank or two below me. It has nothing to do with rank to me. It's it's the what you're doing with who you are that that makes the biggest difference for me. There you go.

Corley: Straight to it. and so I want to go back to topics here. We'll look at the topics. Number imposter syndrome staying engaged socially like you you've got you've got quite a you've got quite a presence with crew first culture and traveling and everything and speaking But talk about imposter syndrome for you and and and the social aspect of social media, etc. Jeremy Sanders: Yeah, so this is the part of the program where I I start to walk the walk if I'm going to do it, you know, instead of just talking it because this is this is that that transparent, that vulnerable type area for me. For those that have kind of followed a little bit of what I'm doing, it's it's been very choppy. And I I regularly probably way too much apologize for that. Because I want it more consistent. I want to be able to have a little bit more of a just a better constant consistent presence but it it's there's so many things that go against that and and to speak of that I I'm truly amazed at how you can stay so consistent through the years. It's crazy to just just to think, yo, okay, it's just one show a week. But Dang, that's it's freaking hard. I guarantee you it's hard. So all respect for that to you. But For me, you know, it it's it's so many different things, but you you bring up imposter syndrome, and that's something that I intentionally sent to you because of you know I I wanted to have some some things that allowed me to express a little bit of the vulnerability that I'm speaking of. For me, you know, you talked about in just after the introduction how it's been so long since I've been on. And and to me, and I I talked to you a little bit about it in that letter, but That has to do with imposter syndrome with me. You have actually several times kind of offered, hey, reach out to me, we'll we'll set something up. And it wasn't that I didn't want to do it. I was, gosh, I wanted to do it so bad. But it was like my mind was telling me You gotta be bigger than what you are right now. You gotta have a better reach than what you have right now.

Jeremy Sanders: You don't want to go on there and have three people log in. That's gonna be embarrassing And and that's that is just an honest piece of that. It has nothing to do with you. That's all me. You know, there's nothing that anybody has done or said that would make that true. It's just my head making things more difficult for me. And so That that's just one of those things where it's like I struggle with all the time. I get into these these ruts to where First of all, when I am doing a podcast, especially if it's just me talking, it's about something that I have an emotional tie to. It's about something that I truly feel like somebody out there may be able to benefit from. And so that being said, I I get into to these spells to where I just I don't have a message to share. You know, it's almost like it's being sucked out of me. And I I'm not gonna just get on and and you know, blow smoke just to say that, okay, I I did a podcast, you know, here and there. And so for me, that is a biggest, a very big piece of that struggle and staying consistent is It's almost like you know my mind is telling me every there's there's so many just let's just talk about our server. There's so many great social media pages out there. There's so many podcasts out there. What are you doing that's any different than anything else? You know, why why do you think that you have anything that is going to be worth listening to Right. And that that's a struggle that I fight all the time. And I it it is embarrassing because I don't want to be like that. You know, I don't want to be somebody who compares myself to you know the different different social media pages and and podcasts because I'm not like that. I'm not I'm not competing against anybody I'm more than happy to help anybody out in that same area, but in my head, I am fighting against them to some make-believe battle to see if I am worthy enough to be able to own a little piece of it. And so again, it is embarrassing because I'm not that kind of person. I don't want to be that kind of person.

Jeremy Sanders: But sometimes you know, that war within that we all fight, no matter you know what it is, it it brings out pieces of us that we don't like at all and that we have to to really work through. And that's that's a big one Corley: No, it it and it it's crazy because the more people I talk to and have these interviews with, and and and they may not even use the term imposter syndrome, some don't even know the term and and what it means, but it's crazy, you know, they all have this I don't want to say all, but most of them have this drive, this, this purpose, this vision, this mission, whatever term you want to put to share, to bring value to the fire service. They want to get it out there. And at the same time, there's this push-pull of I'm not worthy to share this thing. I'm not good enough to be doing this. You know what I'm saying? And it's this weird dichotomy going on. And in my own life, it's like I'm I'm one of the most blessed people in the fire service to do what I do and have the conversations with the people I get to have them with. week in, week out. And I'm like, who am I to be doing this? You know, it's just an unworthy. I don't, I don't unworthy almost feels like the best term for it. You know what I'm saying? And and and it's a tough thing to overcome in your own mind. And it's that inner voice that that I think it's John Spear that always says, if you think I'm talking tough to you, you ought to hear how my how I talk to myself in my head. And I love that man. It's like so and I think everybody's that way if you actually sit down and talk about it. Like we're all broken in our own special ways. Oh yeah, absolutely. So absolutely love, love, love. You share in that struggle because it makes me know that I'm normal. I'm not broken.

Jeremy Sanders: And and you know, you you kind of bringing up some of that stuff also just even further cements how ridiculous it is because you know as well as anybody All of these people that that so many people look up to, that are so great to get to know and learn from and just even some just to sit back and listen to stories. 99. 9% of them are amazing people that they're just people. They don't give a crap about you know how many followers they have or downloads or whatever. They're just people. They're just great people that are really good at what they do. And that that's even like It's even more telling as to, you know, what are you doing? You know, that's people are the the people that we deal with and and the people that that we're kind of in contact with, they're not like that. And so it's just so obvious that it's a me thing, but it's so hard to to truly step away from. And you know, you talk about the comparison and the and the imposter syndrome and I I feel like there are you could I almost call them barriers to opportunity. And you you could throw fear is huge. Absolutely huge. A fear of failure, fear of putting yourself out there, fear of rejection, whatever it is, anxiety, shame, all these different things. They all they're doing is they're keeping me from opportunities that are going to bring me further, that are gonna help. share the the reach of the message that I've been given. And it's me. All of these things, none of them are my biggest enemy. The biggest enemy I have is me. And if I don't reach that full potential, if I don't truly make it to the level that I should and could, The only person I can blame is me. And I I can't allow myself to be victimized by those things or my excuses or anything. I've got to be the responsibility for all of that.

Corley: Super powerful, man. Absolutely love the mirror, man. Love the mirror. Jeremy is a very humble but talented guy. He's been an invaluable addition to Rick George Cadre tactical resiliency training. I sure appreciate his friendship and advice. That comes from Patrick Armitage. Next level extrication says, what's up, Jeremy? Good stuff. You are killing it. Yeah, absolutely. Lots of good comments coming in. Around us that we are no different and we are all in this together from Supa Coop. Dylan Clark. I like most of us want to leave an impact and ask myself the same thing all the time. 100% from Todd Torbett. There you go, man. It's coming at you. The journey to creating exceptional firehouse culture and why it's important. The six-year journey at Station 3 and the process from going your your words, not mine, worst crew in the department to an excellent crew Jeremy Sanders: Yeah, and that's you know we we touched on a little bit of that through some of the questions. Right. But that that's kind of it's almost like It it's a a true journey that you see a movie out of. You know, these people are taking this this huge trek through the mountains or whatever. That's what it that's what it's felt like for me. And you know Again, like I've said before, there's been so many mistakes made in that journey, so many just learning from bad choices and bad this and that. So many times we would be making progress and something caused us to just the freaking bottom falls out So many times we would get some momentum going and it would just disappear. And of course you throw, you know, the infamous COVID years, the the C-word years into that whole mix. And man, it's a freaking nightmare. But To look back on it now, just to see, you know, who we have all become, who the crew has become. the the lessons that I've learned. I feel like you know and this just goes back to my story. I feel like that that particular situation has given me so much material to to add value to other people that I I can't I can't let it go to waste. And so, you know, a lot of things have happened in in that six years. to to be honest now, you know, you know Justin, my my driver, Justin Mann.

Jeremy Sanders: He he recently left me, so I am now the only founding member of of that that original crew when I came on there. the last one standing. But the the journey that it's taken to get here and the people that have been involved in that journey is has truly been just it it's it's been so impressive to see that and and to be able to look back now and and think that you know, all of those things that I had such a problem, or well, I won't say all, a lot of the things that I had a a really a big problem with kind of getting over that hill, over that peak. You know, we're on the other side now. Does that mean we're perfect? No, no, I'm gonna throw that out there really quick. No But when we do encounter those days like I brought up earlier, that the day that I kind of dropped the ball and we we didn't do anything. We come back the next shift and it's all back to normal. You know, we it it's not a it's not a just a freaking the walls are crumbling every time one little mistake happens, which is what it used to be. And it used to be so stressful and man, it it was so heavy on me because I'm somebody that is is really just habitually struggled with consistency in different areas. And so when it comes to strong wills against things that I'm trying to accomplish at a consistent rate, man, it was it was a it was a test for sure. And a lot of times I lost that test. I failed that test. But looking back now, it's it's definitely It's so so good to see the rewards of all that work. And just a kind of a few pieces of that for anybody out there that may be in that situation. something some things that kind of helped us. I think that, you know, I talked earlier about your identity, coming up with who you are and and who you stand for or what you stand for. Right. Identity was a big piece for us as a crew. That was one of the first things that we kind of did together was we created a station logo. And started putting it on shirts and later it evolved into coins.

Jeremy Sanders: And so that was now something that, you know, it it had it bonded us together a little bit. It it gave us something that was a a a common piece. It almost started to give us something to fight for. And that's what that identity for me truly does for us after you start establishing it is it gives us something to fight for. If if you don't have an identity as a crew What what are you what are you doing? You know, what what which way are you going? You know, who are we? What nobody knows and nobody really has any say so in in standing up for this or that. And so that was a big piece for us is is really establishing that. You know, we got into some helmet stickers, just And and again, you know, every time I bring this up, it's just a little sticker. It doesn't cost hardly anything. But now We've kind of tweaked it to where it truly means something. It it has meaning behind it. You have to to show us that you want to be a part of our crew to earn that helmet sticker And so it's it's now a piece of our culture. It's a it's an artifact. It's a it's a piece of our identity. And so just building these little things is just just little wins and and and being persistent through the losses and the failures and just hanging on to those wins and and just trying to drag yourself forward little by little It will take a long time. There is no freaking shortcut for changing a culture around, for making a positive difference in culture. But every bit of the work is worth it, every bit of it. So that's that's kind of the the shortest answer I can do with that. I I will say that if you do have questions about that stuff I'm more than happy to talk about it, you know, after, you know, after the show or whatever, just because everybody's situation is so unique. You know, if if I'm If I'm just throwing some some stuff out here about my situation, it it might touch on a little bit of what you're dealing with, but it might not. And so I'm definitely willing to kind of be that that help for anybody that's struggling through that for sure.

Corley: That's beautiful, man. Starting with that identity, right back to where we started the conversation. Start with that identity, and I love what you said, man. Because if you're not fighting for that identity, what are you fighting for? Man, that's beautiful. I love it. I might have my sound butt. I got it circled and timestamped. Take a lot of notes while you're talking. And I try to pay attention while I take my notes. I love it, man. I absolutely do. I got some broader questions. I got some ones that are just like, whoa, I don't know if I want to dig into that yet. From Mitchellisco, from James. He says, Jeremy, if there is one thing, this is a broad one, this is this is kind of what I call a soft toss. You can crush it if you want. If there's one thing that you would change about the fire service or culture right now, no questions asked, what would it be Jeremy Sanders: The fire service in general, what would I change? Corley: You can take it whatever direction you want. Jeremy Sanders: I think that I think that we're seeing some some really great strides forward. I think that the the work that All of these people on listening right now, all of the people that are putting great content out there on social media and training all the time and just staying up, I think that the fire service is becoming so much better than it was just a few years ago. But I feel like maybe the one thing that that is being overlooked or maybe even underestimated is, again, we're going to get right back into it to what we've touched on several times. is is what we're truly here for. And I know, you know, you see for them a lot. And right out of the gate, I don't think I am going against that. I think it's awesome. that just that you know that saying just to kind of get people's mind wrapped around that but for me if We can't allow that to just stop at the citizens. We can't allow us ourselves to think that, okay, we're here for them. That means that we have to be focused on the citizens. Yes, that's a piece of it. Again, I'm not fighting that. For me, my for them is my citizens that I serve.

Jeremy Sanders: my crew members that that I work with every day and my family that that are home waiting for me when I go home. That is my for them. And so why I bring that up is that if we just put ourselves in that box of just focusing on the citizens, We miss such a great opportunity to help each other as a crew, to be able to connect with each other, to be able to be there for each other as a crew, because this job is hard This job beats you down in every way possible. Physically, mentally, emotionally. It will beat you down. And that's that's only the job. If you have some stuff going on at home, you're already worn down before you come to the job. You're already mentally and emotionally exhausted, maybe physically exhausted So if if our only focus and our only concern is just the citizens, we're missing a big piece as to what it takes. to provide that for the citizens. Because if our people are broken and our people are not getting the help they need and not having the support they need, then those citizens aren't going to be taken care of. I don't care how much you train, we are not going to be in the right state of mind to take care of the people that we're supposed to. And that goes for for coming home as well. You know, if we're not doing what we can to take care of ourselves And have the support, maybe if it's not people at work, if it's our friends, if somebody lucky like me, I now have a group of people that I call, we call a tribe. that that I truly can depend on. But if you don't have that, we are coming home empty and we are not having anything to give to our family And they are struggling because of that. And so that I think I would definitely maybe shed a little bit more light on. is that you know we are here because somebody needs our help. That's just how it is. Somebody will always need our help That that is the job. But if we're truly doing what we need to be doing with the opportunity we have to be as a piece of this fire service life and family. We could do so much more with you know helping the people we work with, helping our family, just just the all-encompassing piece of that.

Jeremy Sanders: And and definitely not making it about us, because as soon as we make it about us. We're failing everything. Right. We're failing the citizens. We're failing the crew, the department, the fire service. We're failing ourselves. And so for me, I think maybe that's that's what I would say is just really really going deeper. You know, yes, yes, we are here to do that. We are we are here for a service. We are here to serve people. We are here to protect and all that. but there's so much more possible if we just just reached out and and started taking advantage of that. Corley: That's hard to beat, man. no, and and when and like you say, when you start off talking about for them and you seem to take anything away like I know you're not taking anything away from the mission focus on the victims and and them But I absolutely get what you're saying. There's a hierarchy to it. And it's so easy if we don't take care of our people. It basically ties right back into the name crew first culture. That's exactly why I I picked that. Yep, absolutely. Without putting the above the citizen. But it and that's that dichotomy of that existence. You know what I'm saying? Keeping the priority first, but understanding the the importance of it all

Jeremy Sanders: and I think just since you brought it up, I I would like to to maybe say a little bit about that. Because I have heard a few people kind of question that, you know, as to what is what's the true motive behind it. And it just goes back to my firm belief of the best opportunity for my people to take care and give the best care and be in the best place for success. is if I'm taking care of them. That is the best way I can guarantee you that. If I take care of my people, if I put them first, if I show them that I care about them, that I support them, that I'm right there with them, then they're going to do every freaking thing they can to accomplish whatever mission we have. They're going to do it just to try to make me look good to others. Absolutely. They're going to make my job easier. All I got to do is take care of them. And that in turn. gives the citizens the best care, the best, you know, competent firefighters showing up And so that's that's kind of where it came from.

Corley: No, no, and and I love man Eric Saylors, he's coming back on the scrap here, I think next week. Maybe yeah, and and amazing. I asked the old question, the best job to be in in the fire service. You know, the old, the old five questions for firefighters. And I love his answer to this day. It still sticks out to me because he he put it this way and I'll and I'll be Quick in my recap of it and probably butcher it a little bit, but basically he said the job of the firefighters to take care of the citizen, the victim. And the job and then the job of the company officer is to take care of the person that takes care of the victim. And then the top of the chief, the battalion chief, is to take care of the person that takes care of the person that takes care of the victim. And and it and it when you start looking at it that way, you start really realizing. And and and as a company officer, and I think you'll agree with this because I love it. It's the best way you can take care of your people is to make sure that they know how to do their jobs competently and efficiently. And they know the district that they're operating in. And so all of that just ties so beautifully in together. Yep. Man, I do love it. I do love it, brother. It got me fired up. Got me fired up going. All right, I'm gonna set well let me see if I got any more questions in here. And any any other topics you want to hit on that I've glossed over or missed.

Jeremy Sanders: Oh yeah, I mean there's lots of stuff we can talk about. Corley: You hit me. You hit me with what you got. I don't want to cut you off Jeremy Sanders: Well, I think that I think that another thought that that I want to throw out there and maybe it's it it is bouncing around some of the same stuff, but it's just another way to look at it. But what's more important Is it what we're gaining from a situation or is it what we're becoming because of a situation? And so that's that's something that I think we all need to really just take some time and ask ourselves. And I'll say it again, just to get everybody to really wrap their head around what is more important. what we're gaining from a situation. So like you know our our physical things that we're gaining, money, respect, you know, whatever. Or is it who we are becoming because of a situation? And so I hope that most or all people say that, well, it's it's who you're becoming. Well, okay, if that's the case, then That's what we truly need to start measuring ourselves again. It's not the things that that make us valuable. It's not the the money that makes us valuable. It's not the the followers and and the the the outspread reach that make us valuable as people. It's what we have to give others is what makes us valuable. It's it's that that story that we've talked about. It's that servant heart, you know, just being able to share and develop people around you. That's that's what truly adds that value to people. And so when you have that, I hope that you want to share it and add value to others because of that. And so I just thought that's just one of those things that I had written down, just in case we kind of bump around on something, is that question, because it if I think that a lot of the situations we go through that are that are tough, that are, that are hard, that just really beat us up. A lot of it has to do with our perspective, our perspective of those situations. You know, with I heard, I can't remember who it was that said it, but They said we need to stop spending time trying to figure out why we're going through these situations.

Jeremy Sanders: And and wondering what the reason is and the purpose is of this and just focus on getting through it. And then once we're through it, that's where the blessings come from. Or that that's where they show up. So if we're spending all this energy trying to sit here and you know, why am I having to do this again? Why do I have to keep fighting this fight? Well, just make it through. Because you're not going to get those answers. You might make up something and and have something that keeps you satisfied for a little while, but you're not going to have any true answers. until you're through it. And then sometimes you'll be able to see why. You know, that's been some of the coolest things coolest times in my life or the the things that I've not really wanted to go through or the the hard times that I had no choice but I I went I was going through them no matter what And once you get past them, you look back and you're like, man, I see now what came of that That was a crappy situation and I'd never want to do it again. But look at what has happened since then. Look at what truly has occurred because of me going through that. And so I think just perspective, helping ourselves through things like that by just monitoring where our perspective is and trying to stay as positive as we can.

Corley: Boom. Yeah, people are saying I'm gonna have to download this and listen to it all over again. No, absolutely. I love hearing that too. But no, there's been so many bombs tonight. So many truth bombs, so many introspective bombs. Vulnerability bombs, culture bombs. Valerie Tess here coming at you says with those with with your recent observations, crew first culture and everything else and stuff you're going through and built and learned from Do you think there is a real thirst for a culture shift in the fire service on a larger scale? Jeremy Sanders: Absolutely. And I anybody that has been to any kind of like a an outside conference, outside training, anything that has been held on neutral ground, you see very quickly that there are a lot of people hungry to to be a part of something special. There are a lot of people hungry to be something more than what they are and to truly grab a hold of the opportunity to to make a difference and and to make that cultural change and be a part of that cultural change. That's one of the saddest things is you you're when you talk about the stuff that I talk about, that you talk about, you you were approached and you know messaged by a lot of people in bad situations. All they want to do is be in a better situation. All they want to do is love their job. All they want to do is be better at their job. But but there's just these people and these, you know, whatever it is that are keeping that from happening. And so To me and and I know a lot of people say it and I don't even know who to attribute it to, but if if this job is not fun, then it you you're working hard to make it that way. You don't have to do anything really to enjoy this job. And it's gonna be fun. So if if you're struggling to to really just come to work if you're if you're not loving to be a firefighter anymore something is is really wrong because this job is so much fun it is so great to be a part of and so Yeah, absolutely. There are definitely people that are standing firm on that, you know, that that old rock that they've been on, on those old traditions, old techniques and skills and and equipment and all that and they're like, you know, you can you can pry it out of my cold dead fingers type mentality.

Jeremy Sanders: And You know, whatever. If that's what you're going to be, okay. Again, going back to it, I can't, I can't allow that to affect my momentum and my drive and my passion. But what I am going to do is I'm going to veer around you and go find somebody else because I promise you there is not a shortage of people out there that want so badly to be a part of something special. And that's that just shows you that it's it's possible. It's possible to create something special where you're at. It's not going to be easy, but it is possible. Corley: Boom. There you go. Just another, just another quick bomb. Just to answer a question. All right. I'm moving on to Booker Books. I love reading. You know me. I love absolutely love reading. And I always ask, book or books that you think firefighters should be reading? I love hearing new ones. I love finding new ones. Or yeah, just hearing your thoughts on books Jeremy Sanders: Many, I feel like this is such a a question that there's no way that I'm gonna say a book that you haven't heard or that somebody hasn't said.

Corley: There's classics and and things that stick out above the crowd for a reason, man. Jeremy Sanders: I I will say this or or I'll say these just because they've made the biggest impact on my life. The first one actually came from you, and I don't I mean this was way, way back, early scrap. And now I'm going blank. The Arbor Engine Institute, what is that? Corley: Leadership, Self-Deception. Jeremy Sanders: Yes, Leadership and Self-Deception. Great book I I never never heard of that before you started talking about it. I have now listened to it probably three or four times. I've I've got a couple extra copies that I'm more than happy to give you know people here and there that's it's it's it's truly an incredible book that helped me really realize how screwed up our perception of everybody else is. It is so twisted. and unbalanced and it's an incredible book. If you have not read that one, definitely read that one. Corley: No, it's in my top five. I love that book. Jeremy Sanders: Absolutely. Yes. Corley: Great, great, great. Great call-out. Jeremy Sanders: One of the newer, and it's been a while since I've I've read it still, but one of the newer ones that really was good was Daring to or gosh dang it. Brene Brown Daring to Lead or Dare Dare to Lead.

Corley: Anything by Brene Brown, but yeah, absolutely. Jeremy Sanders: Really, really good book as well. And you know that again just provide some different perspectives on life. And that's what I love so much is just just getting a different viewpoint. And on that So and I'm I'm not even I don't even want to bring it up because I'm gonna screw it up too, but dare to lead, just so I can get the the title right. Dare to leave it, okay, yeah. But Yeah, I think that's that's two of the the biggest ones that really kind of made me stop and think about things differently and look at things differently, especially leadership and self-deception. The I'll I'll say another one. Arbor drink Arbinger Institute. I think am I saying that right? Arbor Institute Arbinger Okay. Corley: It may be our thing or I could be saying it wrong. I don't know. But yeah, you're probably going to be able to do that. Jeremy Sanders: It's very good as well. That's the sequel. What's that? Corley: Was that the sequel to Leadership and Self-Deception? Yes. Because that's the one I haven't read. I love the first book so much, but I've yet to get that It's on my list, but my list is so long I'm I'm never gonna catch up. I'm never gonna catch up.

Jeremy Sanders: It's still kind of dealing with that, you know, we're we're trying to turn our focus from being inward to turning our focus outward to to those around us. And so it's very good as well. Corley: The books he said, everybody, was Leadership and Self-Deception by the Arbinger Institute, Outward Mindset. also by the Arbinger Institute and Dare to Lead by Brene Brown. So there you go Just so everybody's clear, because people were asking what books did you say? What books did you say? Jeremy Sanders: So I wanted to be straight up so bad. Corley: Well we were we were back and forth on them, so we probably weren't very love it. Okay, so that takes us to one of my favorite parts of every scrap Yeah, culture code. Chief Hobelman chimed in and said culture code. Absolutely. That's also one of my top five along with Leaders Eat Last. Culture Code and Leaders Eat Last are almost the same book just they approach it and hit it from different angles. now you get me everybody's getting me talking about books. the 5Q3, man, the five questions for firefighters version 3. 0. It's the third iteration. Asked over the history of the scrap. The questions have no correct answers. They're completely 100% your opinions. There are no right answers. But the points are arbitrary and they're passed out by me with the help of the audience as they get thrown at you. So my question for you, first of all, is Jeremy Sanders, are you ready for The Five Questions for Firefighters version 3. 0. Always. Here we go. Number one, what is the skill that has carried you through your fire service career?

Jeremy Sanders: As far as skill, I I think that that is definitely something that I had to sit and kind of think about. I don't know that skill is the right word for it, but just persistence is is something that I think I can lean on a lot. You know, being able to weather the storms that that are out there And no matter if I am failing, no matter if I am making mistakes or losing momentum that I've gained or you know just stagnant and in a rut having that persistence to to be able to keep going and and sometimes it It's beyond me. You know, it it requires other people to to get that moving. It requires people to help me get inspired again. But It goes right back to that persistence of just keeping going. Even if I if I'm being truly honest about answering that question. It's almost like the fire service and the the life that I lived for about 20 years. just they they would not have allowed me to make it through if it weren't for persistence. You know, some of the things that that we as a family had to make it through. I I I don't understand still how well you know we got to the other side. But it was that persistence to to keep on going. and and stay with it and know that we are doing the right thing. Even though there may be somebody out there that does not agree with it. Even though there may be a lot of people out there that that have other ideas of what you should be doing or whatever Having the persistence to stay with your priorities and your the things you stand on. That's that's truly been something that I've had to lean on quite a bit.

Corley: I got let's go solid answer max points, yes, persistence, all caps No quit mentality. I love that. Max points 100. Can't stop, won't stop. Max points for sure. Knowing what it takes to maintain your purpose. Dude, there you go. I love it. You're out the gate with max points solid from the audience, and I agree. Number two, what is the most important And I'm kind of interested in this answer, even though we've talked about soft skills a lot of this whole scrap, which is awesome, which is something I love to talk about. But what is the most important soft skill for a person to possess in a leadership position? Jeremy Sanders: Man, I I I I I feel like five is is good. You know, what are the five soft skills? I think that's more That's a easy that's that's too easy. Yeah. To me I gotta go to humility. And maybe that's just because that's something that I feel like is is that that's just what I focus on. But, you know, I would love to say authenticity. I would love to say a courage to to move past your fears, things like that, but it all comes back to humility. Everything always filters back to humility. If if I am allowing myself to be teachable and to be open-minded and and to learn new things. It's it's only because I'm humble enough to say this person knows something that I don't and I need to learn it. If if I'm doing something that allows others around me to take the credit for and to to be built up and and to grow in their career, it's because I'm humble enough to take a back seat. and allow them to to to take that credit and to to get that you know those those those good things everything always comes back to humility for me and And I think it's so, so important. And it goes into the vulnerability too. You can't be vulnerable with others if you aren't humble enough to truly be honest. And another one that I really love is authenticity. I don't really enjoy being around people that I don't feel are authentic. It makes me uneasy. It makes me just, I don't know. It makes my skin crawl type thing. And it if if it wasn't for that humility, that very well could be me, you know.

Jeremy Sanders: That humility keeps me grounded in who I am. And it helps me to understand this is who I am. If you try to go beyond that, You're kind of stepping on some itchy ground right here and you're not really being authentic. And so always going back to humility, I think humble leaders are are amazing people to work for. You know, if you can add in a little bit of strength to that, a little bit of confidence to that, it it takes you so far beyond to that that next level, but it it starts with humility. Corley: So dude, I don't have to look at the comments because Max points for humility, period. It is the bedrock of leadership. 100%. It is the soft skill. In my personal opinion, and and I pass out the points. But that being said, humility for the wind, max points from Steve Kaiser from down under Taylor Shepard, blessed are the humble, for they shall inherit the earth. The Bible says max points James Michelisco, max points, goes back to imposter syndrome. Max max points. Max points for the whole answer. No, absolutely. Humility required, yeah. There is no doubt about it, man. Two for two. Killing it. Number three, what is your favorite fire service tradition?

Jeremy Sanders: I think it's the games. I I I love I love just the camaraderie, the the competition of the games. And I say games because that is so fluid and it changes so much. You know, just looking through the 21 years that I I've been at at Edmond, it's been it's been volleyball, it's been wiffle ball, it's been well, as as much as people would flip their lid now, it was been airsoft fights in the in the around the outside of the station by the street. It's it's been Pickleball and Cornhole, whatever it is, man, that that has been some of the the my favorite times at work and it is so crazy to say that playing games has been my favorite time at work That's the job, you know? That's part of the job and we get to do this. It's amazing. I don't know if people outside the fire service truly understand what kind of a gig we got going on, but I love it. And those games have, man, they they have created some great relationships. They've created some some great healthy competition amongst crew members and and crews. They've just they've done so much in my career that I've seen and been a part of, I I I would say that that's kind of my answer for that one

Corley: Dude, I love it. yeah, laugh laugh is one of my L's. It's it's the fifth L and I absolutely believe in the downtime. Earn the downtime, especially after you've taken care of business. You know, you earn it But man, it is one of the strengths of the American Fire Source. I love your answer. Max points, max points for Airsoft from Carpe Fuego. There you go. Football, baseball, human hungry, hungry hippo in the bay for the win. No, there it's the ingenuity of the wheel. The ingenuity of firefighters to have fun in the in the earned downtime and sometimes unearned downtime let's be honest but is absolutely an amazing amazing time that makes it Three for three. Number four. What though? Who are the four people you would put on your Mount Rushmore of the fire service? Jeremy Sanders: I thought it was five. You sure it's not five? Corley: You trying to rip me off? I hope it's absolutely four. Jeremy Sanders: I came into this thing it was five. so You gotta do a fast edit. Corley: You get to do an honorable mention. Jeremy Sanders: Alright, I'll I'll do that. I I think that this is something that truly has a special place for me. I'm so thankful that you have this question because I think that there's so many people out there. The only thing I hate about it is there's so many people that have helped me to be where I am right now. that I I hate not being able to thank everybody or or put everybody in that spot. But there there are definitely I I will say five there are definitely four or five people that that I would do that. For one, I have to put Justin first. I mentioned him earlier and I said I was going to mention him later and this is what I was talking about. I would not have accomplished anything in in my life and in my career that has happened in the past five years, if it wasn't for him. He he was the the spark that lit the fire again inside me I wasn't a completely checked out, lazy, jaded person firefighter, but I I was Freaking coasting. Absolutely coasting and happy with it. And thinking that I was doing good. He fired me up. He challenged me to be more, he somehow has gotten to where He even kind of behind the scenes got me speaking in front of people, which I've been scared of my entire life, and now I love it.

Jeremy Sanders: But absolutely number one, I would say it has to be just a man Corley: And I don't want to interrupt, I don't want to break your flow, but number one, you can check him out, scrap number 45. you can see hear Justin speak in scrap number one of the originals but go ahead. So sorry Jeremy, I want to mention that. Jeremy Sanders: No, no, you're fine. Corley: number two plug for his scrap. Jeremy Sanders: So that's right. Number two, I I would have to put Brian Brush just being lucky enough to to work with him for a few years. I I hate that you know it wasn't it wasn't longer than that, but I'm so thankful that it allowed me to form a friendship with him. and a a mentor relationship with them and you know having somebody like that that you could reach out to to to ask questions about kind of the the path you're taking and and whatever. It's so incredible. He's definitely helped me in many ways to to really form me into the person I am today. He you you mentioned his comment earlier when we first started about kind of getting me up in front of the recruit class. That was literally you know what i say about justin started me that that was kind of in a formal setting when when i got up in front of that recruit class that was really the first time i've ever spoken in front of anybody. And yeah, it might have only been 10, 12 people, but that that was almost like a an aha moment. Like man, that felt good. I had something. important that I had to say. I got up there, I said it, and it felt good. So definitely number two would be with him. I think that number three and and he could easily be one of the top as well, but Rick George. I I have been talking with Rick for several years over the phone, texting, phone conversations. I had him on the podcast. So Got to know him pretty well, but never met him. And still he was somebody that that was so impactful in my life. And now having the chance to meet him earlier this year and now I I still don't know how. I don't know how things like this work out, but now I have the opportunity to be a part of his instructor group.

Jeremy Sanders: And that if it still blows me away. I don't know why I am with that group. I don't know, but I'm so thankful. But he he is an amazing, amazing. person and the the amount of times that he has and I don't I have I have no idea I know a lot that I've seen and it's a lot and I know there's so many more But the amount of times that people reach out to him for either help for themselves or help for somebody that's on their crew. And he just does it. He finds the resources. He gives the information. Whatever. It truly blows me away at how many people he has impacted. Oh yeah. And that that inspires me to do what I can to be my version of that. And so another huge one. Corley: A lot of people saying that. Yeah, Santa, we know why you're with that group. Don't let that imposter syndrome win. I think Rick George is a pretty good judge of character, to say the least. Laugh out loud. There's a reason you're teaching with him, brother. So go on. Sorry, I don't mean I keep breaking your flow, but No, you're fine.

Jeremy Sanders: I th these are things you don't have to really think about too much. I mean But I I think that, you know, the the next two, and I'm gonna say two, yeah, you call it an honorable mention, whatever. You could take some points off, but Benjamin Martin has been huge as well. I remember listening to a podcast and hearing him being interviewed for the first time. And it was like I was listening to somebody tell the thoughts that were going through my head, but a lot smarter and with a lot more answers. And I was like. Dude, that this guy, he he knows what I'm going through. He knows how to fix what I'm going through. It's amazing. And now to get to know him, And he is so ridiculously smart and you know a few months away from being doctor or actually Doc Martin is what we'll call him. Corley: That's what we're gonna call him absolutely Doc Martin. Jeremy Sanders: But Man, just just somebody that I I can always ask questions that a lot of people They just haven't experienced it. You know, if if I'm writing something or if I am, you know, thinking through some some deeper things that The guy irritates the crap out of me because he has completely screwed up my mentality for so many different things. like you know expectations and he was one of the reasons about the whole vision and mission thing. He he thinks at so so much of a different level that it it completely screws my thinking up and I have to start over But definitely somebody that has has really played a key role in my life. And honorable mention or fifth or whatever you want to call it is And and I you know I I almost hate to say this because it's like, okay, you're kissing up to the host, but truly you you have you you have you have played a huge role in how I'm sitting here as well. You know, you you were the first person to ever, you know, grab a hold of some of my writing and you know put it on your your earlier website and and kind of Give me that experience of seeing it out there. You've had lots of you know just coaching moments with me and sitting down and conversating with me.

Jeremy Sanders: all these things and and so i i definitely i don't want to leave you off that list because it you have been a piece of that so I think that something I want to bring up with that being said, with that being the list, is I've only, there's only two people on that list of five. that I I really physically met before I even heard about them. The other three I never knew of until I just kind of either social media or or listened to podcasts or whatever. And so That just why I want to bring that up is because mentors and inspirations and people that we look up to, they don't have to be people that we're with. You know, we can we can have so many great opportunities to be mentored by people that might not ever even know who the heck we are. But there's some great people out there. And thankfully, I've been lucky enough to to meet the people and to to really establish those those relationships. Corley: That's right. I got this. I should break the letter out and read it to everybody, but I'd have to go find it in my mess of an office Man, but no, and it's numbered coin, and I'm very, very proud of it. When I got to sit down with you at I don't know if you remember the day, I'm sure you do, at On the Border. And we sat down and you did we had that we had that I don't know how long it was, a couple of hours just sitting there discussing Man, it was powerful for me. And thank you. I don't know what to say to that because I don't belong on that mountain of but I appreciate

Jeremy Sanders: So you say that, but one more one more point before you you award me points, so maybe I bump my my status up here. But the the fact is those five people They did something. That's it. They put effort into me. They saw something in me. They invested in me. And so it all comes down to a choice. You know, are you choosing to invest in others or are you choosing to to okay, not right now because I don't feel like it Or I just I don't like doing that. Or I I'm not a big people person. Just looking at the effect that it's had on my life because people chose to invest in me. And so I will say that to everybody out there. Invest in the people around you because you can never, never, never fully grasp the impact that it can have on so many levels and and wavelengths. That's awesome, man. Corley: Easy max points. You put me on honorable mention on Mount Rush. No, but seriously, it people said max points throughout. So it's not just me. Someone Carpe Fuego said max damn points. no, absolutely, brother. And I want to say this. Because it really is an awesome, and not because he said my name, and I appreciate I I want to say humbly. Thank you. I'm very proud, very humbled by that. But I mentioned Justin Mann, episode number 45 of the scrap. So all the other people he mentioned, Brian Brush, one of the originals, number 23 on the scrap. He's also coming back soon. Rick George. I that's how I met Rick George or the original time was an accidental meetup and he came on the weekly scrap number 17. He was the seventh guest to ever come on the scrap, man. It might have been sixth, because I think there was a single in there where I didn't have a guest. So anyway, Rick George is number 17 and number 152. So if you want to find these people he was talking about, if you don't already know their names and haven't already seen their scraps. Ben Martin was number 46 also very early in the scrap and recently number 175.

Jeremy Sanders: I was gonna say you had one recent more recent. Corley: And so there you go. I wanted to put all those episodes out there because the people he's talking about, yeah, they they're they're amazing people, man. Absolutely. Thank you. final question. You've crushed it. heavy fire and searchable space Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on that VES? Jeremy Sanders: So so this is where the wheels fall off. I've done so good. I haven't got myself in trouble. I've watched what I said, but this is something that I'm gonna completely flip on. You know, I You you asked me this, of course, the first time I was on. You asked us this during the fire up OKC, you know, in January, and my answer was on the on the hose line, putting out the fire. But just the past couple days, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna completely change my answer to that and I'll tell you why. I I wanna be I wanna have that opportunity to to VS. I want to have that opportunity to search because Honestly, I know that if that situation comes up, if if there is heavy fire and there is also searchable space We are going to be that crew that is going to search that space. I don't know. I can't guarantee that coming out of everybody. And I'm not s I'm not trying to say anything bad about anybody or any department. But I know we will be the crew that gets the job done if that is the case. And I know that that is going to be the best opportunity for the citizen that could be in there. And so I will change my answer completely and say I want to be If it's assigned or not, if we see that searchable space, we're gonna be the people that are searching that if if we don't have something else going on. So I love that. That's where I'll say that.

Corley: And here's what I'll say about it. It takes humility to come in and change your answer. It takes humility to admit that Jeremy Sanders: I'm the engine guy. So it's hard to it's hard to to step away from that hose line but You know, it is what it is. Corley: I love it, brother. You got max points. Five for five. Easy max points. Crushed it on the episode. Absolutely. smoothboard cartel said confident, and I like it. Max points, life safety first. That's the mission from James Michelisco. Timothy Wood said life safety is the job. One max points. Valerie Tessier, one of my favorite scraps. Infinite points You got an infinite point. Jeremy Sanders: Dang. Corley: You can't do better than that. Jeremy Sanders: It's humbling, man. Corley: Max point. No, brother, you crushed it. Absolutely crushed it. Okay. that officially makes it 205. I can't believe I'm saying that. 205. I say that every time I hit another episode done. 205 scraps in the books Jeremy Sanders, thank you for sharing an amazing evening with me and the audience on YouTube, on Facebook, on LinkedIn. I don't know if anybody actually watches on Twitter, but it's out there floating in the Twitter or the X Sphere, I guess it's called now. if someone wants to get a hold of you, reach out to you. what's the best way to do so

Jeremy Sanders: So I tried my best to make it as simple as possible. Pretty much everything I have is crew first culture. So if if you're looking for an email, it's crewfirstculture at yahoo. com. And that is with a one crew one st culture at yahoo. com. Facebook is crew first culture, Instagram. we've got a website that's crewfirstculture. com to where you can go on and listen to any of our the podcasts that that we have also have linked pretty much every podcast I've been on is a guest as well to to kind of help them as as well and just got a a shop that sell some stickers and and stuff like that. But that's pretty much it, man. I my my cell phone is is on the website. It's it's pretty much everywhere as well. It's 702 or I'm sorry 405-702-2134. So I I I love talking fire and and helping people out and I'm not always the greatest about prompt responses, but I will do my best to to get back to you for sure. But I thank everybody out there so very much for for spending this time with me. And thank you for allowing me. to to share my message. You know, I I this is this is what I have to share. And like it or don't like it, that that's what I have. And for you allowing me to to do it on this platform. with this reach is is it's it's a blessing.

Corley: No your your message your message your message comes from your heart that that authenticity you talked about it's there and you deserved to be on here way sooner than this and I should have made it happen sooner. And that's on me on my book and my terrible, terrible bookie. Because yeah, man. so thank you for sharing your evening with us. Now I hope you'll stick around for the after party. It's all I tell people it's 20 minutes no matter what. The vigilantes get to come in there, they get to critique you, pick you apart, throw insults at you And you know, but I'll see we'll get to that in a minute. Vigilantes, I will post the link as soon as the scrap is over. I'll post the link, we'll be in there, and we'll get to critique Jeremy. It's a lot of fun. Please go become a vigilante if you're not right now. It's the best way to support the scrap. There's exclusive forums, exclusive after parties, exclusive swag. Exclusive discounts. It's all awesome. The badass scraps continue of 2023. I was pulling up the lineup just so I could get it right. Eric Saylors next week coming in to talk about nothing but mass casualty response intentional mass casualty response, specifically Active Shooter and all the work he's been doing on that. One of the smartest firefighters I know coming back on the scrap to talk about that specifically. James Johnson, the week after, he missed Mega Scrap building construction because he was in a car wreck. So he's he's he's coming on to talk. building construction, one of the sexiest men I know, Jason Hovelman, Chief Hovelman, coming back one more time to discuss leadership culture, all the things that I love to discuss and dig deep into, followed by Clay McGee, then Jonas Smith. And then Jeff Rothmeyer. It is a packed up August into September. It is looking good. I'm so excited. And there's more after that. But enough of that. Anything else I need to announce? Scrap after party, I said it. Private group said it. Jeremy, I will see you in the after after party. and hear your feedback and thoughts. Audience? You make the scrap magical. There's nothing compares to the questions you guys send. Kyle pulling them out taking the time to get your questions and throw them out there.

Corley: Kyle Romling is one of the best in the business. Sam Behind the scenes, the technical guru who makes sure that it runs off mostly without a hitch. Most of the hitches are because of stuff that I do to mess it up. That's it. Thank you so much for making the scrap magical. Thank you for tuning in live. I hope the tones stay silent unless it is burning. Everybody, stay safe out there.