Weekly Scrap #317 - Sean Gray, Fire Dynamics and fun

Corley: I get asked all the time, what is a vigilante? What does it mean to be a vigilante? And so to explain that, I'm just gonna kind of explain where the vigilantes came from. When I started the group, I honestly thought there was gonna be like 10 or 20 people who really liked the scrap. That would want to be part of the behind the scenes, helping pick out the guests and make the questions. And I never dreamed that the vigilantes would grow into what it has grown into. Over 700 like-minded souls If you're a vigilante, you are never alone. We have members from across the country. We have members from across the globe. And it's just amazing what it's become. If you're in there, then you get to be in the Discord, and the Discord is where we do all of our dis Discussions and people go live and they talk and they ask questions and we have a channel for bitching and moaning for presenting classes. It's just it's amazing the fellowship that is involved in being a vigilante. And it's not just that, there's so many other benefits You get access to the Vigilante only swag shop. You get the 15% discount on all merch from Firehouse Vigilance. You get the after parties. You get the Vigilante get togethers when we're all at the same place and we get together And we raise a glass and do a toast and have the vigilante creed. You get the vigilante coin when you hit your one-year anniversary with your number. The fireaways, the forums, the archives, all those quarterly projects that are coming that you get to be a part of and get to be behind the scenes on, it's grown into something bigger than I ever imagined And I want people to know about I want people to be a part of if you're not a vigilante, why not? I don't know, I don't know how how big it could be. I don't know. I mean the vigilantes are are where the work is at. They're the ones who are getting stuff done And it's phenomenal to be a part of it. I wanted to get on here and explain where it started, how it came to be, and ask you if you're not a vigilante, why not? Go to patreon. com Slash the Vigilantes.

Corley: That's where you sign up. It is $5 a month. I mean it's you can't even get a cup of coffee for that anymore. Five bucks a month, and you get to be a part of this unbelievable group. Go to patreon. com Sign up, become a vigilante, and I will see you on the Discord. Speaker 2: In the demanding world of firefighting. Training against real-world scenarios is crucial, yet traditional training facilities often fall short in providing realistic, versatile, and cost-effective training solutions Affordable Drill Towers presents a groundbreaking solution. By positioning an affordable drill tower alongside your existing connex boxes burn buildings, a realm of realistic, multi-level training scenarios is unlocked. This integration has been adopted successfully by various fire departments, enhancing their training capabilities exponentially. Delve into the heart of live fire training scenarios within the connex boxes, now amplified by the ADT's multi-floor access, providing an unparalleled training ground. Corley: We started looking at Con X boxes about probably 10 years ago. To me you can't beat them especially for the price The affordable drill tower was the same way. We've got six floors, we've got standpipes on every floor, we've got more anchor points than you can count, we've got removable floors, removable stairs. We can go into the second and third floor off the drill tower. So whether you want us to use it as an external stairwell or a high rise, we can do all that and mimic just about any type of situation

Sean Gray: that the members of the fire department might encounter. Speaker 2: Experience cost effectiveness, enhanced realistic training, versatile operations, easy multi-floor access. and innovative solutions to age-old training challenges. Take your fire department's training to the next level with affordable drill towers. Reach out to Affordable Drill Towers to elevate your training capabilities today. Corley: Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance, it is weekly scrap number 317. My guest tonight is Sean Gray. He currently holds the rank of captain with Cobb County Fire Department in Metro, Atlanta, and has been in the fire service since 1993. Initially started his career in Southern California, relocated to Georgia in 99. He has co-authored a book titled The Evolving Fireground, which is getting ready to have a second edition come out. He has been published fire engineering, firehouse, fire rescue. He's an FDIC hot lead instructor, classroom instructor. He's got the education, the paper. We're going to talk about it. He has the street cred. It has been a scrap that has needed to happen for a long, long time. In fact, it's been probably three or four years in the making, and I'm happy Finally say welcome to the Scrap for episode number 317, my brother, Sean Gray.

Sean Gray: Thanks, man. I'm pumped, man. Super excited to be here And I'm sad that I'm 317, but you know, it took three hundred and sixteen before before it got to me, but no, I I've already been catching crap about that. Like how what's taking it this so long? But We actually met back in Florida and you were like, come on man, let's go on the scrap. And then it just never happened, dude. So that's been a couple years, but yeah, I'm pumped. Thanks for having me. Corley: Anything I missed in the intro? Anything you would like to add Sean Gray: No, I mean yeah, I mean hit it you know started my fire service career in nineteen ninety-three in Southern California and pretty much just relocated to Atlanta, met a girl, followed her out here. that girl went back to California and I you know I met my wife and and had my my two lovely children here and you know since of course you know typical fire service you know things things get working and you know divorces go on and that kind of stuff so I'm divorced and remarried to my lovely wife, Amy West, who's also in the fire service and is a chief up in Canada And yeah, so that's that's kind of a new chapter for me. And that's it, man. I got my kids are growing and are men and yeah, so I'm just hanging out and just plugging away. Got two years left to retirement

Corley: Oh wow. So you have it. It's on the horizon. It's coming. It's on the horizon, man. It's getting there. Absolutely love it. Audience, get your questions primed and ready. Sean is is been primed and ready to fill those questions. And we'll get to them. Let's talk about, of course, those beautiful sponsors. It is, well Yeah, I'll do the sponsors, then I'm gonna talk about roads pay it forward. So when it comes to building your perfect attack package, you can't just slap any nozzle on any hose and hope for the best. That's a recipe for failure. com. And I like to do stuff that's not just monsters. This is something that's it's the Fire in the Sky conference It's coming up down there in the Houston area. It's just a couple of weeks away. It's almost here. September 16th and the 18th. So two weeks away. And you can you can still register. It's got John Norman, Dave McGrill, Jimmy Davis, Eric At, Mike Galliano. Heller, Bloom, Dair, Murphy, our day is going to be it's it's a killer killer lineup. If you love the job, you do not want to miss it. So use the QR code or go to aircoalition. org and sign up today So there's the sponsors and the and the shout-out I wanted to give. And then Sean Gray made some I I should say Sean, you and Chief Rhodes made this happen. I don't know exactly the catalyst and the and the cause but it's the it's the roads pay it forward and it's the first one of the year correct

Sean Gray: Yeah, man. So people right now you're starting to see on social media, right? Like everybody's getting pumped up, announcing, hey, FDIC 2026, thank you so much for, you know, allowing me to come back and speak there. And so we made it happen for tonight, right? So it's kind of special. Like everybody, all of us, when you ever when you apply to put in for FDIC as an instructor, I'm just gonna go ahead and tell you you've been there for that, right? I mean It's a painstaking moment, right? It goes in in June and from June until like August, like you're kind of on the end. Am I gonna get in? Am I not gonna get in? It's like Man, I every year I'm like, this is this is probably gonna be the year, man. I'm gonna get denied. Like, you know, set yourself up for it, you know. And and so this the the letter started to come out. So like last week I got my letter To then I got approved for attack from the burn side, year number 15 for FTIC 2026. Speaker 2: Pretty stoked about that. Sean Gray: Yeah, man. 15 years and yeah, I'm honored and blessed to be able to do that, you know, 15 years in a row. But more importantly, we're going to be doing a hands-on class again for our tenth year in a row. And it's gonna be called the Evolving Cra Fire Ground Search and Fire Attack. And so when those letters start to come out Because this is the perfect timing of everybody starting to get their submissions in and getting their classes. I see I hit up roads and said, hey man, any way that we can give a a pay it forward out and he's like yep first one of the year make it happen so yeah so tonight we're giving out the first pay it forward of the year Rhodes Pay It Forward FDIC a free conference pass going to FDIC 2026. So now we need your help. Tell them how to do it, Corley.

Corley: Hey, it's simple. Nominate somebody and write an email for why they should receive the first pay-it-forward of the year. David Rhodes, pay it forward of the year First one for FDIC 2026, just an email with the name and why they should receive it. It can be yourself, it can be someone else, but they'll let us know because I've got a I've got a group of vigilantes. who are ready to pour through those submissions and look them over and then pick one to be the winner. And we're going to announce the winner on October 7th on Anthony Castro's scrap on that night. We're going to announce who wins the pay it forward. So get them in, and the way to get them in is to email it to theweekly scrap at gmail. com. Theweekly scrap at gmail. com and get them in by September 11th After September 11th, we're cutting it off and let the vigilantes pick who's going to be the winner. So is that clear? So was that clear as mud? All right, Sean. We got all this all the all the sponsors are out the way. The giveaways announced. The giveaways announced. Get your submissions in by September 11th. And now we get to the scrap. And man, dude, I I do not even know where to begin. Because you you have been involved in a lot of stuff. Yep. In the fire service for a while.

Sean Gray: Yeah, so I'll just tell you my story, man. Where it all where it all started, man. I listen probably not like most people that are listening tonight. I I was a guy who was in the fire service engaged working two jobs working as paramedic on the amulets working as paramedic on the helicopter part time gigs you know as we all do, right? Work in the fire department. I was just kind of like plugging away. Married, starting to have small children, and Man, I had that fire. I had that fire that changes us, right? And so I have that fire. I'm a firefighter riding backwards. I got a rookie riding with me. It's his very first fire He's a police officer that's transferred over from the to the police department to the fire department, right? So we pull up, we s we stretch the line, looks like the fire's in the rear of the house and it's ripping. Like I'm thinking like my first fire was this piece of crap frickin' fire like you know, like a trash can fire or something. And I'm thinking like this dude got a freaking ripper, right? Like hell yeah, good for him, right? So reach to the front door and open the front door up It is chugging chugging out the front door and I was like whoo man like I mean I was getting pumped right excited like again thinking in my head like I can't believe that this guy's got this fire for his first this is his very first fire like how cool is this So our officer does a 360 and comes around and I'm like kind of like, hey, where you want the line? And I'm work that day I'm working for the officer that Sucks man. Terrible officer, right? Doesn't have their turnout coat on. Doesn't have their CBA on. They're just wearing their pants, holding the radio in their hand, just They're not coming in with us. So basically I'm now as a senior firefighter, I'm the officer, right? That's gonna lead this guy in. And and we're going into a pretty serious fire. So as we start to make our way in, we get in maybe five, six feet. And it's hot. It's bad. And real bad. Lights out. We're on the floor trying to make it so can't even see a glow.

Sean Gray: Can't see anything. It's it's lights out And so my ego tells me, hey, we gotta push in a little bit further. We're just not quite there. So I'm like telling my keep going, keep going, keep crawling in, keep crawling in By this time, dude, it's getting hot. Like my ears are burning. I'm thinking that I didn't pull my my flaps down and the whole thing. Like things are getting really bad And I honestly just had a bad feeling in my stomach, man. Like, shit. I don't I don't have an officer in here with me. I don't have anybody here to lead me. I'm in here making the decisions with this rookie whose first fire it is. And yeah, I don't I don't like this scenario, you know, and it hurts hurt my ego a little bit, but I'm like, hey man, it's it's time to go Like let's go. We were flowing water. It wasn't doing shit. Nothing was converting. Nothing was happening. We weren't making the fire. I never saw a glow. So all right, let's go. Time to go So we bail and we come out the front door and we bring the nozzle with us of course for whatever reason like I remember thinking like hey just turn around let's go we come back out the front door and as the seconds that we step out the front door all the gases everything lights off back of my coat, melts the back of my helmet. And I was like, whoo, man. It was a close one, right? And so Battalion chiefs there now and he's like, hey, fire attack one, stretch the line to the rear, so we stretch a line to the rear.

Corley: Did you basically beat it out before it flashed? Is that basically that close, right? Sean Gray: You know, and like I didn't I didn't know, man. Like I didn't know But of course, you know, of course, when before we get the line set up, you know, I didn't know shit about flow path and fire dynamics. I didn't know any of that crap. Chalk the door wide open like we'd always been taught, you know, so it's charged up to go waiting for the line to get charged. I mean we're bringing it to us, right So yeah, so take the line around the year, the whole back of the house was on fire and it's ripping. And so we get back to the firehouse after the fire and I started asking questions. I was like, hey, so why did we go in the front door exactly? Because the fire was on the back of the house. It was a deck fire, burned its way into the house. Like, how can we just didn't go around there and put the water on? And the officer's like And you got attacked from the umburn side. That's I mean I've been reading John Norman's book and that's what we study and yeah you gotta go from the umburn side. So yeah, I mean that's why we did that and I was like Mmm, I don't that's just not good enough for me, man. And I started to get like a little upset, a little emotional, and the the guy that's sitting over here next to me, my 20-year-old now, he was a baby at the time and that little guy started to change my mind a little bit on the way that I thought. I was not that tough firefighter anymore that like was willing to just go do everything that I wanted. Like Hey, I got kids I gotta go home to now, right? So started to change my mindset a little bit and I just started digging into the research, man. That's where I started to find I found Dan Matrikowski's name and NIST and I just I mean I got just Inundated in it. I mean obsessed with researching and learning about fire. Because that fire, honestly, it scared the shit out of me. And it scared the shit out of me to where the point I was like, I've got to be better Like I suck at my job right now.

Sean Gray: Like I need to do better. And so fortunately had some guys from my department, some mentors of mine, guys like Tom Hancock, and he's a battalion chief with us. He was the very first person in Cobb County to teach at FDIC And we've been doing some stuff together training wise, and he was like, hey, why don't you come up? So we piled into FDIC like a bunch of frat brothers and slept in a hotel room on the floor and you know, and just did our thing and that very first year of FDIC, man, changed my life. Changed my changed my career, changed my life. I was like, how do I get up here? Because I just spent a thousand dollars to come up here out of my own pocket. I got small children. I can't do that every year It's like, oh man, it's easy. Just fill out an application and you know and and come and teach up there. So all right. So I created a class and I figured it out. And so and but honestly, like you know I told the story last year at FDIC with with the unf the unfortunate death of Bill Gustin and so and Bill was he had come to our department and spoken and we invited him to our firehouse for dinner And at the dinner table, that fire comes up and one of the guys at the table like, oh man, tell them about the fire you had because Bill's like, man, I've been doing research on Cobb County and you guys have a lot of fires that start on the outside. You guys have a lot of deck fires and I'm like, yeah, we you know and the guys like one of the guys is like, hey, tell them about your fire sean, so I kind of tell them the same story I didn't he's like you need to write an article for fire engineering about that. I'm like Dude, I'm a driver in Cobb County. What the hell do I know about freaking writing an article? Right. And he's like, oh, you need to write an article. And he's like, so we exchanged email addresses. And that joker, I no lie, he he emailed me a week later and said, Where's do you have the rough draft yet? I was like Oh shit, this this old guy's off.

Sean Gray: Yeah, man. So that's how it all happened. It was all because of Bill Guston. And so I wrote an article and then applied for FDIC. the article got accepted and next thing you know I'm teaching a class called Attack for the Burn Side and the actually the the very first year the title was too controversial. Bobby Halton changed the name of the class to exterior fires the basics. Corley: Okay. Sean Gray: I can send you a book. I still have it. 2011. Exterior fires the basics. And so like the next year I had like three people in my class the first year, you know, and So the next year I changed the title. I emailed Bobby. It was like, hey, I really want to change the title to Attack from the Burn Side. And I'm kind of trying to challenge some narratives and things. And he was like I'm not sure. I'm not sure if fire service is ready for that yet. It gave me all this stuff, like political stuff, and next thing you know, like I got it the next year and class got bigger and bigger and bigger and Man, that's where the story started. Like honestly, that's where at FDIC, that's where Steve Kerber came to my class and sat in the class. I had no idea that he was sitting in the crowd, right? And then I go into the instructor room afterwards and he's like, hey, that's a pretty good class you want to be part of a technical panel on fires that start on the outside and go into the attics? I was like, sure. I do. Never turn down an opportunity, right? Yeah, man. So that's kind of where the story started is

Corley: I'm on that technical panel and I go and meet and if you've ever been on the real quick, John, because you reminded me of something while you were saying the story, you reminded me I wanted to mention this about the pay it forward and getting your name in for the FDIC giveaway It is a pass, but you do have to get to Indianapolis. You do have to get some lodging. Whether you bunk out with some frat boys or get a band or an Airbnb, whatever you gotta do. It it you need to get your own logic and transportation. So I wanted to you may think of that while you were telling the story. So I wanted to put that out there. Sean Gray: Yeah, but you know what? Whoever the winner is. If you don't got a place to stay, call me. I'll I'll make it happen. We'll find you a place. All right. I can't get you there, but I'll I gotta I'll find you a place to stay Corley: So if I want to make sure that we're clear it wasn't that that stuff's not included, so I didn't want to Yeah. Sean Gray: So yeah, it's I mean we're not like you know we're not like a game show here.

Corley: But can't have can't give it all inclusive, baby. Sean Gray: Yeah, so so anyways, man, so that's kind of how it all started and I got invited by Kerber to be on this technical panel. And you know, I go there, very intimidating place. that's where I meet PJ Norwood and that whole relationship, how that all started, is that we were kinda like the two little nobodies sitting off in the corner and there's like all these legends like Pete Van Dorp and Derek Alconas and John Cerillo and George Healy and Bobby Halton and all these people, right? And I'm like, holy shit, this is a super intimidating room. And we sit down at the table and we start having conversations and I guess I just started speaking up or saying the right things because next thing you know I get an email and they're like hey you're invited to go to this thing in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. I'm like What's in Jacksonville, Wyoming? I didn't know we were doing burns for this project in Jackson, Wyoming, and then we get there and I I you know I show up I text PJ and I'm like hey man what's with this actually he's like I didn't get that email bro I'm not on that email, so I look and I was like, oh shit, it's Sean Gray and all of these legends. Like what the hell am I doing on this email? So yeah, so go to Jackson Hole, Wyoming, and Steve Kerber, the very first day that we meet up, he's like, this is the creation of the Firefighter Safety Research Institute Advisory Board. I need you guys and your experience to guide me on exactly what we're doing. And at that time, it was Steve Kerber was employee number one, and he had hired this other guy named Robin Zavotek as a research engineer. And he had a girl named Julie who was kind of running some of the training stuff off to the side. So that was it. It was like a very small group of people and Kerber was just trying to make this thing happen. And so that's how it all got developed off of that advisory board. And then from there, every project from there, like the advisory board basically would be like, okay, what do we need to test? And we were like, well, we've done ventilation, we've done exterior fires, and we need to do fire attack.

Corley: Right on. Sean Gray: And so the fire attack study, this is where transitional attack came, right? This is where slicers came and all of the controversy, right? So bunch of dude maybe the young guys in the crowd are thinking like, I don't know what hand what the hell slicer is and transitional attack, but you know really what it was is it got it was very controversial, right? So UL fire attack study was put out and And as we were doing some of these research studies, we were building one of the props and I was standing next to Steve Kerber and I'm like, man, what do you want to get out of all this? Like I'm just kind of like picking his brain. He's like You know what? I really just want the fire service to stop believing and start knowing. And Steve Kerber is the one that actually said that to me for the first time. Corley: That's where that that's w that's the germ of where it came from. Sean Gray: That was it. I'm like, can I steal that? He's like, sure. And I was like, yeah. So then I was like, that's amazing. So I just started thinking about that and was like, you know what, I'm gonna start a Facebook page And I asked PJ, I'm like, hey man, you want to start a Facebook page? I was like, I'm thinking like videos, and we just kind of like start challenging the narrative and using research-based tactics and taking all these things we're learning from you well and Steve Kerber and Dan Matrikowski. And putting it out there and trying to translate it for the fire service, right? And he's like, yeah, I'm in. So man, we started doing it. And next thing you know, it got crazy. Like next, there's memes and hifty memes and all kinds of stuff about me, right? Like oh Sean Gray only fights fire from the outside and all this stuff, right? So yeah, so it just got it got crazy and you know some of the people that are out there, some of the haters that were Sean Gray haters in the past I literally don't know most of them. You know, things I've heard from rumors and stuff from people, it's like, dude, I've never even met that guy. Why is that guy not like me? And it might he might not like me because one of the big people that were on the UL Fire Tech Study.

Sean Gray: I challenged those people straight up like when we did the UL Fire Attack Study, there were every name you can think of. Ray McCormick, Kurt Isaacson Nick Martin, Sam Hittle, dude, the list goes on, right? A bunch of just super involved, like really hardcore dudes that are on the fire service that all bring this amazing set of just expertise right to the room. But we started challenging them to kind of think outside the box. So like in that first UL FireTech study meeting. Everybody's talking about stretching lines, how fast can we get water in the front door and you know and they didn't realize that what that research study was about was about the water when it leaves the nozzle and how it affects the fire environment. It was about the fire dynamic side of it and what it does. It wasn't about stretching lines. It wasn't about how fast you can do things and And what nozzle are you using? It was it was really about how the water leaves that. I mean, there was something about the nozzles. Yeah, we tested fog versus smooth board and that kind of thing, but it really was about when the water, what the water does to affect the fire environment And that's the amazing part that comes into all of it. And if you look at a lot of that research early on, all of those guys in the beginning that were kind of challenging the research and kind of raising the bullshit flags, those guys are all on board now. You know, ask Ray, ask Ray, ask Kurt. Like they'll tell you. Like that was their story. They were against it in the very be in the beginning, right? They and then once Kerber kind of showed them and they learned the science just like I did, it was like, oh dude, this was a no-brainer. Like Why wouldn't I use the research, combine it with my experience, and now I can be so much smarter, better, more more aggressive, right? There's there's chiefs probably sitting online tonight. They're gonna say, oh God, he just said that word aggressive Hey man, I'm just going to go ahead and tell you, I believe that 100%, if you combine the research with your experience and make it work for your department, you can be more aggressive and better on the fire ground.

Corley: I love it. I love that. You ready for questions from the audience? That is what it is built for. I like it Well, speaking of hate on online and things like that, Rick Bergen has a question for you that says, Sean, thank you for the videos with the Palmer's Dollhouse. If you were to do those videos again, is there anything you would do differently or focus on? Sean Gray: Yeah, so thank you for bringing that up. I am that I'm the guy, I'm the dollhouse guy, right? So that's like a perfect lead up. That was part of our our setup as we were gonna talk about that So yeah, so the dollhouse guy, right? The story on that is same thing. Advisory board. meet a guy. He's like, oh, they burn these things over in Sweden. And we should do these things. He's like, I got some build plans from Sweden So we take these bill plans. I look at them. I'm like, oh, you know, there's this four compart compartment box. Maybe we can add it. And then next thing you know, it gets an addict added to it by a guy named Matt Palmer in Connecticut. And so that's why it's called the Palmer's Dollhouse. So PG and I start burning these things. We burned our first one at MAFC, Metro Atlanta Firefighter Conference. Their very first year we did a hands-on class. We burned a dollhouse From there, it went insane. PJ Norwen started making videos. Now they've been burned in like all 50 states and like 30 countries around the world. it dude, it's insane. So my my my ex-father-in-law, he and God rest his soul, he actually made the original build plans on Google Sketch. So he's dead. If you guys want to beat him up, he's dead now But he made those original build plans on Google Sketch. And so if I had to go back, like we really didn't know what we were doing, man. Like I didn't know how to make a Google sketch thing. Like I fortunately, Bops was the one who like made that Google sketch, right? And like put it up there. And I'm sitting here, his grandson's sitting here next to me hearing this, right? It's like He just made this thing up. It was like, well, maybe I could put this plan together. He was a an engineer and made it all happen.

Sean Gray: If he could see today how much impact his build plans have had on the American fire service. It's crazy. You know, and like, you know, people are like, how come you never sold this thing? It's always been for free for us, right? Like we're always wanted to get it, give it away and make it better for somebody else and so yeah it it's that's not about that like yeah sure I could have sold them but that's not about that. I want to give it for free. So I actually had to build a web page stop believing and start knowing. com, which is no longer existent because we're we're changing and developing. That's where my story is going is how could we make it better? We've made it better because we just turned over everything to UL. And so This last year we went and we filmed all brand new stuff for the dollhouses. So and UL with their like state of the art filming crew. there's gonna be all brand new build plans that have 3D sketching. They have crazy cameras. They filmed everything with. There's a build video that's gonna go with it. My buddy Mike Beekman from Cobb County Fire is the captain with us. he actually came and we built one together and and he describes every piece piece by piece to get it to go together. Cause we know that a lot of people don't have that construction skill set, right?

Speaker 2: So people with these plans are like, what the hell? Sean Gray: How am I gonna build this thing? So we made a step-by-step video and that'll be released in the end of October from FSRI and on the Fire Safety Academy. You'll be able to find it. So it's all free. fire safety academy you'll see just follow all the social media stuff for s FSRI or follow our evolving fire ground social medias and you'll be able to see it Corley: Love it. Next one's coming at you from Cody Brooks. He's here. I'm here in Florida with Cody Brooks. I shouldn't say it that way. Sean Gray: We talked about him earlier. Corley: Yeah. Squid is asking the question, what is the biggest misconception firemen have about fire dynamics, i. e. what is the most common question or misconception you keep running up against? Sean Gray: you know what actually it just came up today. I'm gonna mention it. My son is sitting right here. So he was texting me today about a about an instructor. that was talking to him, right? And and this guy's, you know, legit, like knows his stuff or whatever, right? But you know he said this thing, he's like, you know, the best thing that'll ever happen to you inside of a fire is when you have this snot slinging fire and somebody cuts a hole over top of your head and then suddenly you can see. Right? And so and we've all been there like In that moment, right? We've I've I've been there on that nozzle, right? And a guy takes the roof and you're like, oh my God, this is a life-changing moment for me And up until the coordinated attack study, the strip mall part of it, when we go back and look at that, I was fooled as well. Straight up fooled. So just when you're thinking about smoke coming out of a door and you have a bi-directional flow path, right? And then we take the roof and we see that lift at the front door, right?

Corley: Right. Sean Gray: That lift is not actually a lift It's not. That lift is a reversal of the flow path. You're now, because you've taken that roof, you've given the fire more air, so it's gaining more energy, and it is sucking in the entire doorway, so the smoke can't come out anymore It's a full intake. And then we've created the outlet above. And we get that lift because we basically created a chimney outside of the roof, right? Now, if the timing works out and we get water on the fire And everything gets good, then we're good. But if it doesn't, we burn the roof off of the place. And so that's where it's all about timing and coordination. And I think that's right. Our experience, our eyes tell us one story. Right? But the we don't really understand the fire dynamics side of it when we're we're we're in the thick of it, right? it's just we're we see things happen, we're like, oh, that was awesome. The roof just got it just made a lot better. Oh, it got cooler Right, it got cooler behind me. Like we felt that? Yeah, because it's sucking in that cool air from the outside. And and it's actually feeding the fire ahead of us. But if you're a jam-up host crew and you get water on the fire, and then everything's good

Corley: No, I love it. Luke Stevenson, along with those, along with what you're talking about there, so I like this question. It's coming at you from down under, actually from the future, technically. But Luke Stevenson wants to know what are your thoughts on trusting your gut versus relying on SOPs? Especially when they contradict each other. Sean Gray: Man, that's a tough one. So I will just tell you in Cobb County, Georgia, we that's one thing that we've kind of tried to stay away from, right? Is SOPs on the fire ground because SOPs will handcuff you And and it's very difficult. Fires are so variable it things change constantly. So to do something dogmatic of we're gonna do this every single time on a fire That just doesn't seem to work. So really honestly using your gut, using your experience, sizing up with the fire, reading the smoke, telling yourself with it with the fire dynamics is the is the way to go. I mean, that's a hundred percent exactly how you should do things because You should be able to tell. The fire is telling you a story, right? It's giving you like signs and symptoms of what are happening, right? You're looking at it, you're going, okay. That smoke over here is really pressurized and really fast. There's a lot of pressure right there. That velocity of that smoke's cranking. So that's where the source of the fire is closest to. I know I kind of have an a general idea where the fire is And it's moving over here. So we don't want to cut a hole over here if the fire's here. Right? Yeah, I mean that that's a bad idea. Let's cut the hole closer to over here and isolate it and keep it here. And so It's those type of things to trust in your gut, trusting your experience, identifying using your own eyes on the scene, but not using SOPs or SOGs. I get hit up about that all the time. People will text me like, hey man, you guys got a give me your search SOG. It's like, mm, we don't we don't really have a search SOG. Now I can I can give you our search pamphlet and tell you all of the tasks that we do and how we do it, but we don't actually say how we're gonna do it on each fire because it changes.

Sean Gray: depends on the building size up, depends on the conditions that we see. Is the fire on the first floor, the second floor, the third floor? You know, it it completely changes. Corley: No, that's and and How how long of a transition? Is that just the culture of the way it is there where it's it's that way or is has that been has that been a deliberate building of a of a What am I trying to say? It's not independent operators, it's mission-driven decision making as opposed to SOP-driven decision making. Sean Gray: It is, right? And you and you know my buddy Dustin, he he's been on the scrap before, so I think that is something that there's a hardcore group of us in Cobb that we've really tried to keep the SOP SOG side of things. out of it when it comes to strategy and tactics. I think there have been several attempts over the years from chief officers and there was enough naysayers and convincing of why that is a bad idea. And another thing about that being a bad idea, like so let's just say like there's variables and decision-making processes that happen that are happening like that, like on the fire ground, right? And You put an SOB SOP and an SOG out there and then something bad happens and now legal things get involved and they're using that SOP SOG against you or against the fire department because maybe something changed because a variable was just slightly off. So there is a legal side of things is like, well maybe I don't want to hand my cuff myself to that SOP SOG, right? We want to kind of kind of keep it open. So that's kind of our our outlook on it.

Corley: And and and I don't know, and I don't want to paint with too broad a brush, but I tend to do that sometimes with my questions. But Like SOPs, SOGs, generally speaking, it's it's like a safety net for people who don't put in the time to invest in their own their ability to look at it and say, oh, the velocity is there. And it's it's hot, it's chugging. That's letting me know where the people who haven't put the time in it even understand what they're looking at. Is that what those SOPs is that it's like a safety net? Sean Gray: Yeah, a hundred percent a safety net, right? And we we do and we have an IMS manual, you know, and like that that talks about the basic things, you know, like when you should transition to defensive operations, you know, the building starting to fall in and that kind of stuff and Those obvious indicators for building construction failures and that kind of stuff. But yeah, we don't have anything that like really dials in as like this is when you should do a vendor search or a window initiator search or this is when you should do ventilation or This is when you should do XT attack. Like we don't have anything that detailed.

Corley: Right on. Right on. Love it. Love the questions. Keep the questions coming. You guys are killing it. Absolutely love it. I like this one because this is this is to peeking a little more to the NFPA NFPA committees and and a lot of there's a lot of well we'll just get into standards, but Kyle Piperall wants to know what was the largest takeaway after being on an NFPA committee myths, mindsets, etc. Sean Gray: Yep. so honestly like the NFA committees, right? There's a ton of hate out there, right? There's all the stickers. There's all that stuff, right? Like, oh, the NFPA is only there to like get manufacturers to develop new stuff and new things. Corley: Not professional application. Sean Gray: Yeah, all that stuff. So I'll be honest with you, man. Like my eyes have been opened and I am on a ton of NFBA committees and I keep applying for more because I feel like the difference that I'm making when I go into that room Everybody wants to make a difference. Anybody who's a vigilante or watching the scrap, they want to make a difference in their department, right? We're all here to make a difference. And when you start hitting brick walls in your own department, like, man, I I've been there. I get it, right? it it happens. You hit start hitting roadblocks So go to the NFP side of things, and it's like, I'm winning. Like the things that we want as the fire service, I mean let's tell you like I'll just use 1400 as an example. I sat on 1400 with Brian Brush and just a whole Bobby Drake and all these like phenomenal firemen from around the nation. And that is such a instrumental the NFPA 1400 is the training committee. That is 1403, the live fire training committee. That committee is so instrumental with the American Fire Service and so misunderstood by so many agencies and so many chiefs out there that use it for their advantage to make up their own rules and I I mean I get phone calls all the time. It's like, hey man, you sent them 1403. Tell me about that. It's like it doesn't say that. It doesn't say that anywhere. How did you get that interpretation out of that? And so there It's wild because firemen actually don't read the document, right? And so that is where the I know it's crazy, right?

Sean Gray: So that is why we have been you'll you'll see us now, especially 1400, where we're trying to like go live from the those committee meetings and like write articles like hey we just met and the firemen are we're here trying to look out for the American fire service we don't want the manufacturers to take control of it that's why you should get involved with NDPA committees if you're passionate about it I Right now sign up go on to nfpa. com get on there look at the open committees and just apply you throw your application on there and tell them why you want to be in the tell them why you want to be an expert on whatever it could be you can be expert on ladders an expert on hose An expert on SBAs, on technical rescue, on everything, right? There's so many topics. Go find your expertise, something you're passionate about, and then go sit on that FBA committee and make a difference and don't allow the manufacturers to take it over That's why we have to be involved as a fire service. Don't let them take that over. And I promise you, there's a really strong group of firefighters that are in the American Fire Service that are trying to make it better And really keep rocking on with NFA. NFA is not going away. Just for all you haters out there with the NFPA hater stickers, it's not going away. Embrace it and become part of it and make it better.

Corley: Steer it. Become a part of the steering committee. Sean Gray: That's right Corley: I love it. looking here. They got some broad questions. These are more broad. I like Hump, man. Hump always brings good questions. He says, congratulations on being chosen as a presenter at FDIC 2026. Fifteen years, brother. That is a phenomenal. I don't know what the record is, but you gotta be pushing. Sean Gray: Oh, I'm not even close, bro. There's dudes that have been there like 40 years. Corley: But it's an incredible achievement. can you sneak peek of what you're going to be teaching in the classroom and the hot? Sean Gray: Yeah, so the classroom is called Attack from the Burn Side and If anybody's been there, I try to change it up every year with with new videos and and things that are happening with fire attack, but attack from the burn side is really kind of challenging some of the narratives, right? It's like Getting water on the fire, never never walking past a fire with a nozzle, right? And so and I r recent I'm gonna I'm gonna drop his name but because we have a co-relationship but Justin McWilliams and I just kind of went back and forth on the internet about it, right? And so it was a discussion about search versus water on the fire And our argument and my argument was like, dude, you're walking past flames that are blowing out of a window. Why wouldn't you stop and put water in that window? You're making everything better with that water, right? And his argument was, no, you're delaying that search Valid arguments. Both are valid arguments, right? And so that's kind of what we talk about in the attack from the burnside classes is getting away from the textbook unburned side and because can you imagine like let's say if I got a fire on the back of a house am I really gonna like completely or let's say I got a a fire on the front of the house we pull up Am I gonna go around the back to the Charlie side to go from the umbrant side? No, it doesn't make any sense. I'm gonna punch it in the mouth, right in the front, right? So that's what the class is about. we get into water mapping, air entrainment. We s we nerd out. I'm a total nozzle nerd.

Sean Gray: We talk about We talk about smooth bore, we talk about fog nozzles, we talk about all of the streams and and really get kind of detailed with some of the research and the science. I play tons of videos. People will ask me for my PowerPoint, happy to give them to you. But it's like out of 50 slides, there's probably 45 videos. And it's just us looking at fire porn and talking about sizing up the building. I'm trying to communicate with the class back and forth like, where are you guys going? Where's your first where's your first line going? Where were we searching from first? And We're having like these fire attack discussions of you know really trying to get in there and get people thinking. So it's really a rising class is what that class is. Corley: Beautiful Sean Gray: so in the hands-on class, sorry, I skipped I missed the second part of the question. My bad. So the second part of the question is this is our class. It's it has been called it's changed names multiple times but it's been a flow path class it's been working in the fire flow path it is our live fire class that the Cobfire brothers And our brothers from Los Angeles County. And we have some mixtures in and there. We have some FDNY guys. We've got guys from Philadelphia. We've had guys from Phoenix. We got guys from all kinds of problems. We have people, guys from Canada come help us But it's mostly LA and Cobb County is what it's kind of recognized, the LA Cobb class. we created a relationship many years ago with the LA guy, with the LA County guys And they taught us everything we know about fire dynamics and we taught them everything they know about search. And so yeah, so it's been great, honestly, man. That relationship's amazing. Like LA County is no longer searching with hose lines. They're finally going through windows and trying to rescue people. But that's what the class is about, man. You I promise you, you have never taken a live fire class like this one It's the best fire dynamic show you'll ever see, Live Firewise. It's the best fire tech show you'll ever see with Live Fire and also search and VES. Anybody who's ever taken our class. is gonna trust me, you're gonna get hot, you're gonna get smoky, you're gonna be tired in the end of it.

Sean Gray: And this year we have some new faces coming And I'm we're super excited about it, man. It's they're they're rebuilding the training center in Bartersville and we got some really cool stuff coming out. One of my brothers Grant Coffin from LA County. He's he's a welder and the guy does fabrication stuff and he offered up his expertise to rebuild this training center because we burned the shit out of this place so much that it's literally collapsing. So Bargersville's like, hey, we're gonna dump money into it. Bring your guy, bring us a welder, we'll make it happen. And so this year is gonna be badass. Corley: Can't wait. Nice, nice. I love it. I love it. Hopefully people can catch it that are listening. I like this one coming at you also from Hump. He wants to know, because I like these questions. These are broad questions. What strategies do you recommend for making positive changes in a fire department, especially when facing resistance from traditional mindsets? Sean Gray: Man, I think Martinez got this exact same question. Corley: So hey, I'm telling you, this might be the most repeated type type of question that comes along. You know what I'm saying?

Sean Gray: So Yeah, so on this, I gotta I gotta do a shout-out real quick because I kind of forgot about him. Battalion chief Steve Lester. Actually, sorry, not battalion chief, my bad chief, division chief of training, Steve Lester. He's a top fan of yours He loves he's he he's commenting about the scrap. This guy's a big scrap fan, dude. I love him. And he was my former battalion chief and he's my lover. Oh yeah, oh dude, Steve Less is awesome. So, anyways He he he's one of our he's our leading our organization of the training division right now. And really, man, that's I mean, that's where we're kind of headed. So The resistance, right? It's there. There's always two forces fighting against each other. It's like Star Wars, right? There's Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker. There's good and evil kind of fighting each other in each organization. And Some are depending on which side you're on, some are very safety policy oriented, and then others are very mission-driven, right? And they're all about the them side of things, right? We're about the people. We're here to rescue people. We're about the side of the job. And I think probably most of the vigilantes and the people that are on this show are probably about them Man, for us, what we did was we started a small core group of us, about 20 of us, we started a truck academy. And that truck academy was forcible entry, search, ladders, and ventilation. And those were our four principles. That truck academy changed. We did not have a strong truck culture in our department at all. That changed the fabric of our department. From there it turned into working groups within our recruit school. So now we have working groups. for everything you can think of for fire behavior hose and nozzles or fire attack I should say high rise search ladders all all I mean all across all of it gets taught by subject matter experts within our department And we continually to turn that over to the younger guys. So the older guys that have been on those groups, they start to pass it on to the next young guy coming up, right? And so that just keeps it going, keeping it going. So that is honestly, we started with the recruits. Then we had so much success, especially in our search search side of things.

Sean Gray: We had so much success on the search side that The old guys that were in the field, the you the young guys were coming out and they start spitting out this knowledge that they got and they're like, hey man, how come I didn't get that You know, so like at one point in my career, I went into the training division, and that's kind of when that transition came into phase. And I was like, hey man, we'll give it to you. We're gonna give it work, let me create some computer-based training. We'll get it out there to you guys You know, bring the field down. We'll do a a an entire department drill. We'll do fall drills, spring drills until everybody starts to get it. We start doing search techniques and We made a lot of that happen and now everybody has it and it just changed the culture of our department to the point where we show up on every fire looking and expecting to find victims And that was something that we didn't have, man. I, you know, I was part of civilian rescue many years ago. and with my man Chris Baines and my man Reggie Jenkins and we went in on a truck and you know we were just kind of blindly searching didn't think we were gonna find anybody and then holy shit came across a guy at a stairwell and and it surprised us Right? Why was I surprised? Because I was expecting not to find anybody.

Corley: Right. Yeah. The mindset. Sean Gray: Oh, the mindset, right? And then we pulled them out. We're like Holy shit. So we went back to the station and while we should have been high fiving and like hey this is really cool. We beat ourselves up, man. Went back and we're like, hey, that sucked. We didn't know how to drag that guy We didn't expect him. We got to be better than that. And we beat ourselves up and went back. And that honestly that that civilian rescue became kind of the catalyst, the starting point of Starting making things better. People started talking about that rescue. And then from there it just got crazy. Now we have we have civilian rescues all the time. It I know that sounds insane. People are like, oh no, they don't. Like, man, look it up. Like Lots, right? And we have cyano kits that we're giving our paramedics are giving cyano kits. We bring the people out. And it's because we are getting water on the fire Like immediately. There is no delay. So when we pull up on the scene, there's two things happening, right? The pillars of our fire ground in Cobb County are fire attack and search Those are the pillars of our fire grounds. And we're doing both at the same time. We flood the building with water and we flood the building with people. So we don't care if we're coming in opposite of host streams. We're not scared of that. We teach our kids that In the very beginning, right? We also teach our kid as soon as he gets the nozzle in his hand, hey man, you don't have to have an officer to tell you to put water on the fire. Open up that nozzle and start knocking down the fire. You see flames, put water on the fire We don't care where you're standing. And there's no ego about it anymore. I used to, when this stuff first started, I get I get you know phone calls and texts and be like, oh hey man, engine 30, put water on the fire through a window today. Holy shit, are you pumped And then it's like, well, I mean, yeah, sure, I guess. Well now it's like I don't even hear about it anymore because that's just common practice. Like nobody even talks about it.

Sean Gray: It's not like engine thirty put water through the window. Those guys are a bunch of sissies. I can't believe they did that That's just common knowledge. Like, hey, they put water through the window, put the fire out so the other crews could search and get people out of the building. That's what it's all about, man. It's just Getting people to realize like we're so far past like all of that ego stuff of like if I put water on the outside. I there was a video last year from that I play at FDIC last year And you I'm sure you've probably seen it. It's like a two-story townhome and there's a guy forcing the front door and there's a a young guy with a nozzle and he the flames are blowing out a second-story window right above the front door and he puts water through the window and the guy turns like, hey What the fuck are you doing? And he yells at the guy, right? Is it's like the classic fire department videos because, like, you just put my fire out. What are you doing? It's like, yeah, he's doing the right thing. He's putting the fire out But that's kind of we've gotten past that in our department and we gotten past the cool factor, right? So those are the challenges that we we can I mean to that guy that just hey man just keep pushing forward try to find different angles right try to find create specialty groups start with the young kids then go to the new then go to them then we then we go to the officers and I think Martina's offered it up before and I'll offer it up again You guys contact me when this is all over. I'll send you our search drive. It's there for everyone. We do, I can't tell you all the stuff that's in this drive. PowerPoint after PowerPoint for everybody you can think of from recruit school to officers to chiefs. Everything you can think of our search stuff is in there. And so and it's changed departments across the country.

Corley: Speaking of Dustin, what was the origin of the feud? I should say the rumor of the feud because I don't want to add fuel to the But what where did that start where did it come from? Because when I first met him, I thought you guys did have a feud. No, Dustin's just full of shit. Sean Gray: He's hilarious, right? So Dustin was my rookie at at Station 19, which is currently where I'm a captain, but I was a driver at the time and Dustin came on board And we both are from the West Coast and you know kinda have these like like-minded things about each other. I actually gave him when he got off probation, I gave him my halligan. I gave him a halligan that I had, right, as a gift to for getting off probation And no, I mean we're we're like the best of friends, man. And so the feud kind of game because Dustin is absolutely hilarious and he kind of plays like the saltier role and Right. I mean he's kinda like got his helmet like in his photos. He's got his helmet down. It's kinda got the side twist on it. And you know he's kind of playing that like tough guy role and he talks that game and everything. It's like I get it, you know, and I'm not that guy. I'm like I'm more on the research side of thing. I'm the the nerd side of things. And so I'm not the the ego part tough guy fireman type of stuff and so he kind of played each other against everybody's like, oh yeah, that guy, he wants to fight every fire from the outside. So Dustin took that and just kind of played it against me and just and it became jokes. It became memes And I I'm the kind of guy that dude my nickname is sissy, you're not gonna hurt my feelings like I could care less. Like make fun of me. I I don't care And yeah, so that's where all that came from. And no, we're we're we're the best of friends and people think that we're not, it's hilarious. I love it.

Corley: No, no, it was for me when I You don't know. It's just it was this that was real. That was reality. Like there's some s they don't like each other at all. You know, but it was it wasn't real. Sean Gray: Hell I talked to him for thirty minutes today. We were talking about a fire that happened in our apartment last night, you know? Corley: So yeah. I got one coming out from DJ Stone, 850 Fireman. He says, command, question mark. Does blue card command get a bad rap? Question mark. How has Cobb County adapted the system for operations? Sean Gray: Yeah, so for again my man Steve Lester, he's a big blue card guy. so Yeah, DJ, we hated it when we first got it. Hated it. Just be honest with you. We completely against it. the people from Blue Card, the higher ups that are some are not there any longer They came into our department, they spoke. Dustin Martinez, myself, many others were in the crowd and were challenging them, and they were saying things like Never go on the roof. Never VES. All things that we do as a fire department. And we feel like we do fairly well, right? And we challenge them with, wait a minute, you're selling an incident command system. Why are you talking about strategy and tactics? It's supposed to be a command language. And and so those were some of the initial challenges that we had in Cobb County with with Blue Card. Now all of that's changed. I think it's become a phenomenal system for us because we've started to learn some of the language. If blue card stays away from the strategy and tactics side of things and lets their command language work itself into departments, that's the key. Don't try to change people's strategy and tactics because departments across the country do things a little bit differently. And that is there's too many variables for you to do that to say, hey, this system, you should do this here, right? So we talked about that earlier.

Corley: g discussion. Sean Gray: Yeah, it's gotta be it's gotta be a language. And and that's really all it is. It's It is part of your language and your blue card instant command stuff. I believe me, I've I helped Lincoln Nebraska get through some of this and they struggled with it as well because you see all these things online and they're like, well, blue car says this, blue car says that. Some things get out there and they do have shows just like this And people speak some of their personal opinions and if they take a sound bite and it flies off the handle and goes crazy. I don't think the name of those I don't think they have any ill intent for that. They're just speaking some personal opinions, right? Just like I am tonight. People are probably Corley: take some of the sound bites that i've said tonight and it'll go wild right but the crazy thing is you can have a you can have a 90 minute two hour discussion sometimes and people will take a 30 second clip and be like What the hell heck I even talking about? Exactly. Sean Gray: Yeah. So yeah, so it's one of those things. So I I would advocate for blue card. So for us when we did accreditation and I'm talking like high level chief stuff here, right? When you go from the highest level of the chief stuff and you start talking about accreditation purposes, the things you're going to get hit on in accreditation is incident management systems We didn't have a good one. We just didn't have a great one. And so we bought one and we bought blue card. And and it has started to work for us But man, the transition has been very slow. I would say that we have one of the best blue card labs in the nation now. that again you know chief chief lesser is is running and and and it's built and it's been an amazing system there so yeah if you ever see blue card and it's hosted in Cobb County, Georgia, come on, come check it out. It's one of the best labs out there, but I we're not like this crazy blue card department where we're like not doing things aggressively. Like don't put blue card and shitty fire department together because that's not the case.

Sean Gray: I can tell you that our blue card is pretty solid and even Dustin Martinez, he'll joke with you about blue card, but he does it and does a very good job at it. That guy's gonna be a chief one day and and yeah, and that's what we do. So Corley: Killer. Oh, great question. Great question, DJ. Thank you for it. But trucky wants to know, hey brother, with the NFPA live fire standard 1403, I feel like it doesn't allow for us to create real live fire conditions. What can we use that NFPA 1403 will allow to help create that? Sean Gray: So that's my man Colin Ward out there in Utah. What's up, bro? So you know, there's some tricks, right? And if you come to our FDIC class, we're gonna show you some of that stuff with 1403. Is 1403 talks about wood products? A lot of people think that it got banned to OSV, and that came from the IAF. The IFF put out a notice stating that the IFF did not support the usage of OSB. And when they put that out, it went crazy public and a lot of locals tapped onto it like that's it, can't use OSB anymore. 1403 does not say that It does not say that. It doesn't say anywhere in there. And there's some some guys that are around the country that have like fought against it from the IFF side of things. And I've fought it from the 1403 side against them Listen, we used all of the research that's there for us. FSRI did an entire research study on training fuels. Two of them. Two research studies. And if it burns, it's got carcinogens in it. Period. If it's wood, it doesn't matter what type of wood it is. It has carcinogens in it And that's the basic thing. And so we we got to a point on the 1403 committee, bro, where it was like, hey, are we still gonna allow live fire training or are we not gonna allow it? Like that's the decisions we gotta make here. Oh honestly, our last meeting, that's that was a decision we had to make. And it was like, no, it there's way too much valuable or value to take that away. We can't take live fire training away from the fire departments. Like, that's dumb. Let's put in all of the other stuff.

Sean Gray: So when you see 1403, the new one come out here in 2026, it's coming out in January you're gonna see all of these things put in place the decon side of things all of the cancer prevention stuff everything that your man your man and my man Frank leave talks about right all of those safety things put into place for cancer prevention We are really trying to take care of our people and decreasing their exposure. And for for 1403, dude, you can put it all in there. It's not there's a lot of misconceptions. Like I got a phone call yesterday from a guy talking about smudge pots or smoke barrels. Look it up. Smoke is not live fire. Live smoke is not live fire, people Look it up. It's in I I know you're gonna have to read the NFPA document and try to interpret it, but it's not that long. I promise it'll put you asleep to sleep a couple nights in a row. But Yeah, it's it's there and it's it's you can do some really cool stuff with live fire. Corley: Excellent, man. Great, great, great questions Oh I hear people Greg Greg Carter wants to know he says best question of the night what's in the tumbler?

Sean Gray: Oh in the tumbler right here bro hang on I got it right here Horse soldier. And you gotta know it man. So these this label, it's a tin metal label. Stamped by 9-11 Steel. Horse soldiers, if you don't know, they were the first people after 9-11 that went into Afghanistan. And so it's built this whiskey's built by a bunch of special forces dudes to put that into place. And because it's stamped with 9-11 steel. That's what I'm about. So that's what I'm drinking. $50 a bottle, not too bad. And yeah. Corley: They had the movie made with the where they had the horses, right? Sean Gray: Yeah, that's it. Horse soldier whiskey, man. That's that's my jam Corley: Right on. No. I've I I knew I only know it from the movie, but I never seen the whiskey. Sean Gray: Yep. So it used to only be sold in Georgia, now or only sold in Florida, now it's sold in Georgia. So you gotta get it. It's in Indianapolis too if you go to FDIC. Corley: Perfect. Greg Carter wants to know about your new training facility. Sean Gray: Yeah, so new training facility, you know, that so that started with with training chief Tom Hancock. And and then that turned into where the current training chief is, Chief Chief Steve Lester. And that vision it's man, it's been a long time coming. So that's splost funds is where a lot of that was built from And honestly, I've been dreaming about something like that for 20 plus years, bro. And yeah, it's state of the art. everything you can think of, we have Every kind of live fire scenario you could put in. We have concrete buildings. We have metal boxes. We have a high-rise tower. In our high-rise tower, we have different floors with different configurations If you come to Massey, you'll be able you'll get to use it. it has apartment buildings inside on one of the floors. It has a commercial strip mall. Everything you can think of is there, dude. It's sick.

Corley: So yeah, it's I mean it's pretty still Taj Mahal of a training facility for your last two years. It's pretty stupid, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Sean Gray: Hey, better late than I mean better two years than that. Not at all. It took so long to build it that there were a lot of good ideas and some of those good ideas went away and then But most of the bad ideas went away and I think we've done a really, really good job with that. It's pretty solid. I'm stoked about it. There's still more to be built. dude, we just built if you hadn't seen it since we left massive massive because I don't think that part opened yet We actually have a fire engineering part where like for pump operators. We got everything in there. We got a fire pump We got dude FDC's Kyle Smith, he nerds the hell out in there. I'm just gonna go ahead and tell you, right? If you guys don't know who Kyle Smith is, it's it's like sprinklermatic down in in Miami We it's not that good, but it's pretty dang good. Our our fire marshal's office got involved and man it's some really, really cool nerd stuff if you want to talk about that. The only thing that's missing is like an elevator. That's about the only thing our fire ground doesn't have is an elevator

Corley: Well, man, so much still, I mean, there's so much I want to ask you, but I also want to get to so many topics. education, education. You are a learned man with a lot of paperwork behind those learned and you're like you said, but you're also thinking about I mean not thinking about you're pursuing a PhD Sean Gray: I'm working on it. We'll see. I'm not there yet. But yeah, I am. Yeah, I I I set myself to go to that. So yeah, let's just start with this. So right after that near miss happened with with you know my young my son being there as a baby man, I was tired of not being educated, right? And so yeah, so I went and got my fire safety engineering degree from University of Cincinnati And just did it all online and plugged away. Had to go up there a couple of times, take some classes here and there, and got my bachelor's in that and I think probably some people see engineering and stuff like that. It's not a real engineering degree, but it's fire safety engineering from University of Cincinnati. It's a legit degree. And then from there I got my master's. I went off to the Naval Postgraduate School. If you're not familiar with that, it's a program that's funded by the Department of Homeland Security and gradu graduated with from a homeland security certificate from there and from that the mistake that I made there was that those credits don't transfer over to a PhD. You gotta be in the Navy or something, right? So yeah, so that's kind of one of those things like a stopping point. So I've gone back and got another master's in occupational safety and help from Columbia Southern. And and that's where I'm gonna continue my PhD. So we'll see.

Corley: Next time you're coming on the scrap, you'll be doctor. Sean Gray: Oh, I don't know about that. It's gonna be a long time. I'll be retired by the time that I'm a doctor, but Corley: No, I'm listening man, here's the thing is it took 300 episodes to get you on here the first time. So we're looking at 600 for around two. Sean Gray: I'm in. That's right. So I'm a forever student, right? I'm a student of the game, and And that's something that, you know, like one of my mentors, Dave McGrail, he'll always tell you, like, hey man, be a student of the of the game. And and that's what I am. I'm constantly learning and Every class that I take I get intrigued and I get challenged and it's fun. It's it's something that keeps my brain going and And I I like plugging away at it. It's it's real slow, just one class at a time. But but it's still something that keeps me engaged, man. Corley: Consistency wins, man. 100%. Sean Gray: That's right Corley: The and if you want proof that it inconsistency doesn't, just look at my my present my BJJ and how slow I progress in that because I am wildly inconsistent. I love talking about books, and this is usually where I transition to book or books that you think firefighters should be reading. And I will say there's so many topics I still want to talk to you about. I am going to have you back on, and I will not be 300 episodes from now So we have to agree on that. But we'll we'll transition to books and talk about book or books that you think firefighters should be reading. Not just firefighting books, and of course the evolving firegrams, second edition coming out It's gonna be out by FDIC, yes?

Sean Gray: Yeah, it'll be it'll be previous I guess I don't know what you call that, premiered or It's it's gonna be a thing at FDIC. That's why the FDIC the hot class is gonna be called the Evolving Fire Ground Search and Fire Attack because after the book We're working on some things behind the scenes where we're trying to do something special with maybe getting the students at least like a discount or I I really want to get a book in every student's hand if I can. Every student that comes to our hot class, I want them to have a book. We'll see what that happens. We're working on it. Rhodes, make it happen. Okay. So that but we're trying to make it happen, man. It's a whole political process But I you know something that one that came up today my son actually reminded me of it and a book that it's a leadership book that I I really kind of identifies the way that I do things And it's called The Mission, The Men and Me. And man, that that one, dude, that one hits hard, right? Is that because that's truly what it's about. It's about the mission. And being part of that and always thinking about, hey, we've got to get this mission done. But then at the same time, it's got to be about the men after that and then you last right so and that's kind of that I know you hate the leaders eat last thing Dude. I've been joking at the firehouse kitchen table about that. I was like, 'Cause it happened today at breakfast. Everybody sitting there looking at each other and I was like This isn't what the book is about. Right.

Corley: You're missing the point. It's one of my favorite books, but exactly. Everybody misses the point. It's the the title. Sean Gray: Yes. They do, right? So but I like the mission men and me. That's a really, really good one, man, and and military driven and that's kind of where my brain is right now is my youngest son is in U. Marine Corps boot camp at Paris Island right now. And we haven't heard we haven't heard from him, but hopefully he's locked in and doing great things and So yeah, so you know, he's becoming part of that culture. But yeah, Mission Men of Me is a really, really good leadership book to kind of get you started. If you're a new upcoming officer, I highly encourage you to watch that. It's an easy read. Mission Men of Me's It's short, dude. Like I mean less than 100 pages, I think. It's not it's not it's not a heavy read. I like I know you're a Simon Senec fan, but I like start with why Right. And that's a great book. Great book. This younger generation. and again I'm looking over here at my son. He's asking me why all the time. And that's what they really want to know, right? Is I I'm seeing this today. So today at the firehouse, when I left and came home to be on this thing tonight, and I had a new kid, Noah. and young Noah, he he started with us today. It's his very first day in the firehouse, right? And We're trying to give him the why. We're showing him we're teaching him things, just basic things like hey man, this is why you should get in the sink and clean the dishes and hey this is why you should be the first one to the rig and you know hey this is why you should pull the hose line this way and this is some things that we do things here at station 19 and all of those things is like and i know in his head he's like well why why why And that's something that I think as a leader, you have to tell people. You have to give those kids the why. And it's so important and that's where if you if you listen to Simon Senex even his any podcast or anything he's done where he talks about that and you read the book, he really explains like the success and business of especially like with Apple Right, is because they give you the why of why you should buy Apple products and a lot of places don't do that.

Sean Gray: So I think as a fire service you can adapt that and That's where the research-based tactics and the experience come together is because that is the why. The research-based tactics is giving you the why. Like I didn't know why when I first started in the fire service, why the hell we were doing the things we did. It was because my officer told me to do that. And if I didn't do that, it's gonna kick me in the butt, right You just said how high. Exactly. Yeah, make I'll make it happen, right? And so now it's all about the why. And yeah, so and that and that is That's the great thing about FSRI is they're providing us with the why, and that's why you should pay attention to what they're doing to the Fire Safety Academy Beautiful. Alright, so one of the books, let me give a give me give you some firefighter books. because I think I had on my list there, right Corley: Yep, go. You got carte blanche. You can go as long as you want. I'll talk blue for two, three hours. Sean Gray: 20,000 alarms, man. Richard Hamilton 20,000 Alarms. Have you never read it?

Corley: My little brother went to half-price books and he got a copy of 20,000 Alarms for like $4. 99. Sean Gray: Amazing. That's on it. Corley: Yeah, that was unreal. He just finished reading it and told me, you know, he was talking about it. And when he sent me a picture of it, I said, are you joking me right now 'Cause you know, that's like one of the most expensive books you can find if you can even find a copy. Sean Gray: I got lucky I found a hard copy recently, a hardback, and actually gave it to a good friend of mine as he retired battalion chief Kevin Lewis. He's taught with us at FDIC for years as a mentor of mine. And I gave it to him as a retirement gift. And because I know that he's from New York and Man, 20,000 alarms. That that when you get a chance to read that book, I anybody who can find it, find it. Trust me. It's about the warriors and FDNY and just Corley: what they went through and the things that they saw and amazing stories, you know, like the collision. Sean Gray: I mean just yeah just the crazy, crazy stories. Like you read that and you're just like Holy crap, like I want to live that life, right? Like I want to be part of that. And yeah, but it's so as I so I I usually try to give I have a paperback copy still and the rookies that I like I usually give them that book. I'm like, hey, be careful with this book. I want it back. Do you read? And sometimes they say yes and sometimes they know. If they say no, I'm like, do you want to read? So and so I give it to him and and I get it you know try to get it back and then you know another book that I try to give to all the rookies and is the book of Andy

Speaker 2: Yeah. Sean Gray: And so that one is a huge one, right? and I started to reference why you got me on the book of Andy. We'll go back to the FSRI thing, right? So let's go back to the FSRI advisory board meeting I told you about guys about way earlier. With all those legends. So I'm on a boat at the very first advisory board meeting and John Cerillo, the captain of Rescue One from FDMY, just retired. Speaker 2: but I give a shout-out to John. Sean Gray: I'm sitting on a boat with John I've never really been around him, don't know him for anybody. And he's like, hey, we're just talking fire service stuff just like we're doing here, and he's like had 9-11 not happened, you'd be sitting on this boat talking to Andy Fredericks. And I was like Really? And he's like, yeah, Andy was all about the research. I worked with Andy on squad 18. He tells me all the story about Andy. He goes, loved it. He's all into it. He's trying to make things better. He was designing nozzles and He was doing all these things that things that people didn't talk about, things that never got published. And he's writing all these articles. And the things that really, when you look back and man, you read the book of Andy, and you look at the things that he's describing in his articles, Black Fire is a great one. He's talking about fire dynamics. He is seeing what we all know today. He's describing the things, the flow past and the bi-direction. He's talking about all of that stuff in his articles through his experience. He gets it, right? The light bulb is turned on for Andy and he's like starting to see all these things and flowing water onto surfaces and through the smoke and That's why smooth water smooth boards matter because of the larger droplets and the dude is like so locked in, like he's got it figured out before the scientists even had it figured out. And And so that John Cerrillo like really hit me with that was like, oh wow, yeah, like, no, yeah, you're right. Andy really did have it right. And had he not got killed, God rest his soul on 9-11 I probably would have been sitting on a boat talking to him about research-based tactics and how cool, you know, would that would have been.

Sean Gray: And yeah, so the just some of the backstory I I really try to encourage people to read the book of Andy because if you want If you're into nozzles and you want to be a good engine guy, you need to read the book of Andy. Start there because man every article in there that he wrote and you know so excited that they finally put it together in a book 'Cause it was just on PDF and guys are sharing it and now that fire engineering has published that and made it a book, that's it's legit. I can't wait to give it to my son when he retires or not retires or finishes recruit school 'cause that should be his first read, you know, as he's a rookie. Corley: Right on. I love it. Great, great, great list of books, brother. Which takes us to the five questions for firefighters. Okay. Now we are on we are on the Fifth no four four fourth four point oh so many that I'm losing track number one right out there the thing is there's no right answers there's only your opinions and the points are arbitrary assigned by me So, first question is, are you ready for the five questions for firefighters version 4. 0, Mr. Sean Gray? Sure. Let's do this. Number one. Perfect. You can do anything in the world except be a firefighter. What would you choose to be? Probably a pilot. That's surprising. I mean not that you say that, but that's the sec these are new and you're the second pilot So I wonder I will I'm wondering if there's a if there's a trend that's gonna be uncovered. But go ahead.

Sean Gray: You know, and so I because the way that I think about it is that to be a pilot you have to be so locked in and like learn your craft and it's so like I've watched so fortunately I I did get to fly as a flight paramedic for five years as a as a flight medic and I got to watch helicopter pilots maneuver things and I was so in awe of what they had to do to be able to fly a helicopter. If you ever just sat and watched a helicopter pilot fly a helicopter, it's pretty amazing because you would think that like what they're holding, like they're really gripping it And they're not like they'll tell you like oh they just hold it like a like a an egg like a horrible egg right and then they're moving this up and down to give speed and then their feet are on the pedals to keep you from going sideways back and forth. Dude, it is like And I'm lucky I don't think I am. You're talking about like juggling and dancing and kicking with your feet at the same time. And so yeah, so I think about that and I'm like, and that's super talented thing to do, and you gotta be super locked in and just like squared away Every single moment, like I can remember like going into scene flights and things are dark and it's like it's some dangerous shit, right? And it's like we're looking for power lines for landing zones and these guys are So hardcore locked in, like mission ready, right? And that's where I think about that pulling up to fires is that that's how locked in you need to be. It's like you gonna need to be locked in and be mission ready, be ready to go. And identify things that are happening around you, right? And pay attention. So yeah, so I think a pilot just because that's when my brain thinks.

Corley: No, I love it. I love the answer. it'd be interesting to see. And Rick Burgen and the trucky both gave you max points. I agree. Max points one for one right out the gate. Okay. Number two, it's job town. It's time. You're in route and responding. Think of the theme from Magdraft where he slaps that cassette into that tape deck. What song are you playing while in route? Sean Gray: So I went back and forth on this one. At first I was like Metallica, then I was like Halen, right? And then I was like You know, probably in my crew who's watching right now, they're gonna laugh because they get pissed at me because we're we're just that crew, right? Like we we are the ones that like we go through one bottle And we come out, we rehab, and I'm like, hey, get another bottle on. We're going right. Don't even take your pack off. Just get another bottle. You know, the chief's like, hey, 19, you ready to go back in? Yep, we're ready, Chief. And so till I collapse by MN because that's kind of our mantra, right? So and that's that's the reality, man, is that we're gonna do multiple bottles and we're there to work and we try to we try to have that reputation about us is that you know we we know the chiefs know that hey if things still need to get done in there and there's still more fire. And other companies are there and they look tired, like they're probably gonna come out and take a rest in the yard and we're gonna come out, grab a swig of water, put a new bottle in, and we're going right back in to work again. So till I collapse by M M.

Corley: Love it. Sam has it okay, it has been on there? All right. That is okay. Okay. No, it's not you don't have to be original. I just like to know Okay. Okay. All right. Very popular. And it's driving beat and it's MM. It's great. two for two max points And also just know your selection, although yours is already on the playlist, there is a playlist of all songs ever ever been mentioned on the scrap. I love it. So it's on Spotify. So number three. Tomorrow morning, you wake up and you are the chief of department. It could be a small suburban department, it can be wherever, fantasy department, don't have to be your department, but you can do whatever you want. What's the first change you are making Sean Gray: First of all, that's never gonna happen because I yeah, I'm not that guy. Corley: That's the number one thing everybody says to this question. So go ahead. Sean Gray: All right, so honestly, I'm probably gonna ask people to do window initiated searches. I'm gonna ask you, are you feel do you feel comfortable going through a window? And if you don't, why not? And where are we as a culture of thinking about getting to the victim the fastest way possible? Identifying, recognizing the smoke conditions, like recognizing the fire dynamics and the fire behavior that's involved. And Seeing what exactly is happening is like that's searchable space. I can get there. I need to go there now. There could be a victim right there. That's a bedroom. All of those things, like that's what we're gonna start with Because that is where we've been most successful in Cobb County is identifying those places, right? We're sizing at the building for search and we're sizing at the building for fire at the same time So I think that's my biggest thing. Yep.

Corley: I'm gonna start the whiz, the whiz. Sean Gray: Oh yeah. I'm trying to be correct with the with the FSRI stuff, right? So Because that's really what people are gonna like, oh, they're trying to change the books and they're dah, blah, blah. Listen, what we're trying to do is we're trying to be common sense about it and we're trying to get away from the mnemonics of VES and VEIS and that whole argument. And we're trying to say, hey man, going through a window is just as safe as going through a door. It's the same thing Recognizes the conditions when you take that window is if the interior door is open or closed. Really, when you walk up, you should be able to tell the conditions of what's coming out of that window before you even break it because They're likely it's likely a vinyl window and smoke's pushing out and smelting or whatever around it. If that's happening, you probably got an interior door that's open. So it's those are the things, man. Those are the keys that you try to learn with fire dynamics. I think it was one of the pieces I wanted to try to touch on like in Cobb is like, dude, all of our working groups, fire dynamics is our base We start with fire dynamics in the very beginning. We burn dollhouses. We do all of the stuff. And then every recruit every part of the recruit school after that. They're still teaching some then they may not be talking about flow pass and they're not using all the words that I'm using, right? But they're still forcible entry. What do they do? They pop a door. What do they do immediately when the door gets popped? Close it back. Why Oh, because of fire dynamics, right? So same with same with VES or window initiated search, right? What do they do as soon as they go inside the window? Get to the door, close it. Close off the flow path. What do we teach on interior search? Hey, we're gonna get down a hallway. We're gonna get to a door, and we're gonna get in that room, we're gonna close the door behind us And we're gonna search the bed and the targets first and all those things, right? We're gonna take the window because we know if the door is closed, we're gonna vent the window because the door is isolated.

Sean Gray: Like thus those all have fire dynamics as your basic four piece, right? And so that's the piece, man. It's it's huge. It's important. Corley: No, I love it. Max points. Easy. Three for three. You're crushing it so far. Okay. Number four. This one is on the clock. I know you can see the clock. The audience can see the clock. You got one minute to answer. But you are riding backwards, backseat firefighter. It's a four-man engine. You can you can also make it a truck, so that's up to you. But you can choose anyone Who is your dream company to ride with? One driver, one officer, and another firefighter. Sean Gray: Okay. So. I thought about this one already, right? And and I know like Kurt was gonna take you down to like the one second mark. He talked about that. I'm not gonna take you to the one second mark. I I don't have that much patience. So in his answer for Kyle Smith about the pump operator, I'm just gonna say pretty damn good say that's a pretty damn good answer. Cause Kyle Smith is a complete nerd and that's the guy you want on the pump, right? so honestly I think I'm going with the firefighter that I want with me is probably key stakes

Corley: Who? Sean Gray: The guy hands down has seen more nozzle time than any fireman in the country. just solid dude, just I mean he gets it right. So officer, I'm going Pete Van Dorp all day as my officer, and I'm gonna say Kyle Smith as my driver. Corley: I wondered if you were if like maybe he can't see the clock. 30 seconds. He's gonna blow past blow his max points. I love I love your crew, brother. I would I would be honored to ride up with that crew or just even buff that crew when they went to a fire. It'd be awesome Four for four, final question. Heavy fire, searchable space. Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on a window-initiated search? Sean Gray: All right, here's here's the argument I talked about earlier. Where's my guy Justin McWilliams calling him out right now, right? So and I mean just so you know, like in the background, man, Justin and I were we're working on the fire engineering firefighter one firefighter two textbook She's all the search stuff. I'm doing fire stream stuff. Key stakes is doing fire stream stuff. So we are all collaborating, working together to try to come up with this just like solid documents. So when kids go through recruit school. And they're you they're using the fire engineering, firefighter one, firefighter two textbook, like they're getting kind of like this really kind of common sense approach, right? and as much as I've talked about search and how that is part of our fabric in Cobb County. I gotta go with nozzle man. No, I would I'm surprised. I I I always try to guess what you're gonna say. Because water makes everything better It just does, right? And I know I'm a truck captain and my guys at the station are like, oh come on, Cap, you're giving it to the engine. Hey man, water makes everything better And it just does. So and there's guys that are working at the station right now if they're still watching. we had a guy there that that was part of a near miss recently And you know why that near miss happened? Because he was going through a window and things started to light off around him. And fortunately, he recognized the shit that was happening around him because of the fire dynamics training we've done, and he got the hell back out It was because the engine screwed up and they didn't get water on the fire.

Sean Gray: The engine is the key to everything. Water on the fire makes everything better, right? The search crews can't search unless the engine gets water on the fire. And that's that's the reality. Like don't be afraid of the water. Do it at the exact same time. But the engines gotta come through. They've got to get water on the fire. That is an absolute must. And that's why we try to teach our people like don't be afraid. I you should not be standing there with a charged nozzle in your hand, waiting for an officer to tell you something to do Start putting extinguishing and putting water on the fire. Don't be afraid to do that. And I don't care where you're standing from, from the outside, from the inside. Just make sure that it's a straight stream. You know, like that's this is an opportunity to talk about side note rabbit trail. You know, is is fog versus smoothboard versus like, oh, you fog or smoothboard guy You know, my buddy from LA County, Chad, he's gonna tell you like I'm a fog guy because it's more complicated and I want you to understand your nozzle more, right? And I'm gonna tell you, hey Smooth bore all the way. It's just open and close. I can't screw that up. Right? It's just you can't screw that up. It's just open and close. But the fog is a little bit more complicated. I want the fogs to lock That's why I sit on FBA committees. I'm trying to change on the hose and nozzle committee. I'm trying to get fog nozzles to lock in place and that you gotta press a tab to get it to go to a fog nozzle. Because we know that air entrainment's really, really bad. It's got to be straight stream. It's got to be, it's got to be smooth bore to get that extinguishment going. And then you're not going to hurt anybody on the opposite side of those of the stream

Corley: Love it. And you you officially crushed the five questions for firefighters as expected. Five for five max points, my brother. Absolutely crushed it. And that officially puts 317 scraps in the books. Sean Gray, if someone wants to get a hold of you, and people have already said in the YouTube chat that they want to get a hold of you and get that search information, you know, Cobb County search, you know, all that. But what's the best way to get a hold of you Sean Gray: Yeah, happy to give it up, man. So my email address is FFSN Firefighter, Sean Gray, S-E-A-N-G-R-A-Y at gmail. com Email me, dude, I'll send you the link. you know, I I can't take credit for it. It's Dustin Martinez put that whole thing together, made it happen and and now again it's continued on but guys like Jimmy Gregory and all those guys in my department that just continue to make it happen and and we just keep gathering more information and just like Dustin said on his scrap, listen dude We sol we stole this stuff from other people and made it our own, molded it and created it and turned it into something that we wanted it to be. We didn't we didn't make it. It's not We didn't create it. Everything's recycled in the fire service. And so so don't say hey Cobb County made this up because probably not. We probably stole it from somewhere else and somebody's gonna be pissed that we said that we created it. So that's just the disclaimer that's out there

Corley: Right on. Right on. Brand new thing that we're doing. We started doing it in 2025, so it's not that new anymore, but Scrap challenge. Scrap challenge for everybody who's watching the scrap tonight. A challenge for them to get done before the next scrap on next Tuesday. What is your challenge to them? Sean Gray: Yeah, so this is something that I thought of the other day because I've been working on it with my son, right? And talking about rapid dress and as you're going through recruit school, that's like a big part of it. And man, I want to challenge everybody to be able to mask up with your gloves on. Mask up with gloves on. Mask up with gloves on. It's critical because when that time comes and that person that wife is standing in the driveway and when you get that search there's gonna be videos in that search document that you guys want that search folder you're gonna see videos in there and you're gonna see helmet cameras from some of our officers And they're gonna get off, and there's a wife standing there telling this officer, like, they're there, they're right there, they're in the house. It's go time. We don't have time to be dicking around with our gloves. We need to be ready to go You should be able to put your mask on and have everything set up with your gloves on. And if you don't have the right gloves, your department doesn't drive buy you the right gloves, go find some Or go see my boy Ryan Pennington, right? Like there are dudes out there that are making gloves to make things better for us so that we have more dexterity I can't tell you how many pairs of gloves I've tried or gone through trying to find the right fit. And dude, it's it's all about having the right pair of gloves and making sure that you can strap up. And then some of those guys out there again, Justin McWilliams, like he's really big on that, trying to get masks up super quickly and have everything, everything on your mask. So I'm a one-strap guy. Like I just pull it on, strap up, yank it on, and we go, right So it that's the biggest thing, man. Mask up with your gloves on. Make it happen. Challenge yourself till next week.

Sean Gray: You can YouTube it. There's guys out there challenging that are challenging out there. So I heard you mention Cody Tristrell later, like his whole group, those guys are challenging people how to make that happen. That's what it's all about. I go I put my helmet back cowboy style. So I have a long chin strap and that's why I wear that like that because I just go cowboy style I'm I'm not smart enough to take my my helmet off my arm. Yeah, I yeah I can't do it, dude. I'm not that smart. So I I gotta just put it around my neck and then it reminds me when it's choking me to pull my helmet back up. Corley: Right on. Sean Gray: Yep. Corley: And make sure you do have a long chain strap because I before I was ever introduced to Quick Dawn, I went to a Fools event. OKC Metro Fools were doing an event. And this was OKC Fire Chief Chief Kelly was actually a captain at the time. That's how long ago this was. And he was teaching VES, which was you know something kind of new at this time, you know what I'm saying? But they showed us some quick non stuff and I tried it for the first time ever. And I never practiced it or anything. I threw my helmet back and dude it got turned sideways. It was like a gir a garot back there. It was a total embarrassment. Yeah, it's a massive. I tried to I tried to choke myself out on the on the drill ground so yeah, but practice it. I love the challenge, man. Great, great challenge. The last thing I'd like to ask is who do you think should be on the scrap? And I'm always trying to grow the network. And I know you can't know all 300 or 250 plus guests that have been on, but who do you think should be on the scrap or back on the scrap?

Sean Gray: Oh man, I'm trying to think of some guys that I feel like they're really kind of changing some things. Have you ever had Kyle Samson on? Corley: No, I haven't. No. Sean Gray: I Corley: So super early. Sean Gray: Maybe. So and I'm going to tell you, Kyle Samson, he was a hater. He's a Sean Gray hater. But him and I have have have like just kind of come back together and and had discussions online. And Kyle Samsung is doing some really cool stuff with decision making processes. Corley: Okay. Sean Gray: And and I really love the things that he's doing. Like I I think that you know all the stuff in the past, like both just kind of matured over time and the things that Kyle's doing with decision making processes It's pretty interesting stuff. Corley: So if you I think he wrote some articles early on when I was doing articles and blogs. Sean Gray: I think he wrote some articles for that or I think some of his styles are different, like K-I-E-L. Corley: K-I-E-L, yeah I know him. Sean Gray: Honestly, I think that that the decision making process, because it's that prime that prime decision making process, right? Of like really and I I do believe there are some things there, like some human controls that we can't control. And especially like when your heart rate gets to a certain level and it takes away your operatory response. And there's something to that. And I I don't know how to, we've talked about it at the UL advisory board with Kerber and everything else, like how to measure that type of stuff. human response is very difficult to measure.

Corley: So variable too, man. Sean Gray: Yeah, so many people react differently and Stay calm and to make it. Corley: It's like the scientific method goes out the window because you can't you can't repeat it as soon as you change the subject, the whole thing out the window. Sean Gray: Yeah, I mean we've I've gone round and round with guys over the years about that. You know, it's like, hey, if you could recognize this thing, it's like, well, I didn't recognize it because my heart rate was 170 and You know, and so yeah, so it that but that's I think Kyle Samsung's really onto some good stuff there and having some really solid discussions about those type of things. Corley: Okay, I thought it was very, very early if I had him on. Sean Gray: I have to have him on because honestly, since 28, he has really like changed a lot of stuff that's happening. But uhwhell. Corley: No, no, no. That's that's that's great. and that's how many it's been, because I can't remember everybody that's been on. Sean Gray: So well hell, I if you do it every Tuesday. How how many that's a long time ago, dude. Corley: Oh, it was. It was. And my and and if and Sam can tell you, my memory might be one of the worst memories out there So yeah, I'm worried about the future of my memory. but I love it, man. Thank you for that. the one thing I am gonna say, I'm gonna bring it up now because I'm getting ready to have the first episode is the scrap solo And I'm kind of hyping it. Small announcement. I the vigilantes know it's the project I've been working on, but it's a lot like scrap, but no audience, no questions. It's soloing one topic And the first five minutes of the show is going to be, what are we going to discuss and what's the bumper rails, right? And so if anything comes up along the way. We'll have a we have that and it's gonna I hope it's gonna be a really fun discussion. It's gonna be completely different than the scrap as far as shotgun and and going in different directions. So we'll see. But that's one thing I would like to talk to you about like just Putting down some bumper rails on on like certain aspect of fire dynamics.

Sean Gray: Yeah, no, so like honestly like I love that by the way, like breaking it down into smaller sections. And God, I'm trying to think of the name of it off the top of my head. I I learned about it in my master's program at MPS. It's a Japanese way of of doing PowerPoints. And yeah, and it's 20 seconds per slide, and I think it's 20 minutes long. Ah man, I can't think of the name of it off the top of my head. I wish I could You could Google it, Google it, Japanese PowerPoint stuff. So what they do is you take one topic and the slides turn every 20 seconds. And so you have to like stay on topic. And you can literally talk about like I did one on hose I did it just on hose lines and the jackets of hose and that kind of stuff. Speaker 2: Yeah. Sean Gray: We talked about and how hose lines fail and they fail firefighters. And so that's that's one that I did on that. But it's It's very, very focused on let's just stay right here on this topic. Corley: Yeah. Sean Gray: And what are the challenges that we're trying to look at I love it, dude. That's a great idea.

Corley: That is a scrap solo and it's gonna be recorded and put out and and hopefully go real good. So I'm gonna invite you to come back and be a guest on the solo. And so and so I I I'm looking forward to it. I really am. so A Thank you so much for spending your evening with us. Coming up next week, speaking of Florida, I don't know if I mentioned I'm in Florida, but Eric Wheaton. is coming on the scrap back on the scrap and it's been long overdue to come back on the scrap so he's coming back on the scrap I kind of Yeah. But it's gonna be a great one, Eric Wheaton, one of my favorite people. and so that's next week. I'm excited to be back a in the United States I loved it. It was a great, great, great, awesome time, family time, visiting Greece. I understand why world travelers say it's one of their favorite destinations. It was amazing time. The guest hosts, I want to shout out and say to each one, Jeremy Dawn, Scott Hewlett, Jake Barnes, thank you so much for Taking care of my baby with what I call the scrap. And you guys did an amazing job as the guest host, and I can never thank you enough. But it feels great to be back and interviewing a guest. And it's just it feels great. So thank you, scrappers. Digelani's everybody. I'm excited to be back and I'm really excited for everything that's coming up. So We got everything done. We did it, Sean. You absolutely crushed it. We have coming up, mention the vigilantes, the after party, the scrap after party. You're invited. You do not have to come, but we roast the guest

Sean Gray: I mean, let's do it. What do we have to do? An hour forty, right? I didn't go like a I didn't go I like Chief Ike. He was three hours. Like I didn't do that hardcore. Corley: Very rare. Very rare. But no, it's phenomenal. You absolutely cry. I really enjoyed it. I feel like we left so much on the table, too So that's what I always love when I feel like I left so much on the table. All right. Next week, Eric Wheaton, Digital Annies, I love you. We're doing the after party. Sam has already got it set up. I think that's everything So I'll say this. Sean, thank you for spending your evening with us. Loved it. I'm going to have you back. We're also going to do a solo. Audience, as always, your questions make the scrap what it is. It provides the fuel for us to go chasing down the rabbit trails. And sending our guests off on all sorts of directions. And you guys are what make the scrap magical showing up each and every week live. It would not exist without you. So thank you from the bottom of my heart. I love you all. And with all that being said, I will see you in the after party. I hope the tone stays silent unless it is burning. This job will never be safe. So stay smart out there.

Sean Gray: Thank you guys. Appreciate it