Weekly Scrap #273 - Steve Shaw on Soap, Suds and Saws

Corley: Corley Moore coming at ya Wanted to talk very briefly before the scrap starts tonight. And if you know me, you know that I love the vigilantes. I love the like-minded souls, and I'm always looking for ways that we can have more interaction. One of the things that every vigilante says when they join is they're looking to connect with those like-minded souls. They're looking to connect with other vigilantes and people who feel the way they feel. And so I'm constantly looking for ways to make that happen. So far, I love Patreon. I love Patreon for bringing us together, but it hasn't created that the the ability to share information and things the way I wanted. But one thing we did discover was that Discord is integrated into Patreon. So we've been working for the last couple weeks to launch a Discord server where the vigilantes can get together and hang out. Now I'll be the first person to say I am not a tech guru. I'm much better at forcing doors and and hooking ceiling. I'm better at destroying stuff than I am at using technology. But that being said, Discord has so many options that look like they could be phenomenal for the vigilantes and and for our growth and for the fellowship and the camaraderie that we want to share. It's got chat rooms that you can post in. separated by category where we can have great discussions. It's got voice channels you can jump in and have voice discussions with people at the drop of a hat without any without needing to start a a Zoom call or anything. You just drop in and drop out. You can share screens. We have plans. people have plans to share classes that they've built so they can get feedback before they go and teach those classes. I mean, there's so much that could be used for this Discord server, and we're just scratching the surface. So get in, come be a part of it, man. It looks to be an incredible platform. And if you want to be a part of it. Head over to patreon. com slash the vigilantes. Become a part, man. If you're not a vigilante, why not? five bucks a month. You I it you can't even afford a fancy coffee nowadays for five bucks. So five bucks a month, you're you're a member of the like like-minded souls.

Corley: So come be a part. Looking forward to seeing and talking to you in the Discord. Stay safe. Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance, it is weekly scrap number 273 My guest tonight is Steve Shaw. He is a husband and a father and a 29-year veteran of the Fire Rescue Service. He served over 24 years with Fort Lauderdale Fire Rescue. Prior to becoming the deputy fire chief for the town of Jupiter Fire Rescue. Just this year. He's an avid student. He has a bachelor's degree in chemistry and a master's in business administration from Florida Atlantic University. He's an author for fire engineering, a presenter at FDIC, and is the host of the Perspectives on Leadership podcast. He has a beautiful wife, two wonderful boys. In his spare time, he brews beer, makes handcrafted soap, and enjoys working in his garage. It is my absolute pleasure to welcome him to the scrap for episode number two seventy-three. Welcome, my brother, Steve Shaw. Steve Shaw: My man, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be talking shop with you. I've been waiting for this for a long time. I got to see at FDIC the last couple years and This is just this is mind-blowing. I'm excited. and and congratulations, by the way, on your book. Congratulations.

Corley: Thank you, brother. Thank you. absolutely. And is there anything I missed on the intro? Anything you would like to add? Steve Shaw: No, man, I I think that that covers most of it. I'm just looking forward to talking shop and just to dive deep into all kinds of weird and and and and this interesting topics tonight Corley: Excellent. Excellent. Well, with that being said, then audience, please, please, please. Everybody's now we got a nevery easy, never equit already coming in from David Stender. Tellboard Misfits is checked in with two rocker horns saying, let's go. Rob Ramirez says Here to watch my brother of 26 years, the most interesting man in the fire service, talk. Soap saws, brews, and leadership. So I'm looking forward to this already. Yes Steve Mauch said if Rob is invested, you know he's varsity AF. He's the real deal coming at you from Rob and Fiddle player. Someone said a fiddle player. Steve Shaw: All right, we're not gonna talk about that. That's a that's a that's a dead okay, okay. Corley: Hey, there's no telling where the audience will take us, but let's get to it because I want to first I will get to the sponsors so we can get to it. So here we go. Let's talk about those beautiful sponsors Starting off with, when it comes to performance under pressure, you need equipment that won't let you down. com And with that being said, the sponsors are done. The intros are done. We've got the audience involved and we're ready to kick this off. So Chief Shaw, It's one of the weirdest topics. I always send out a thing that says, what would you like to discuss? And it's one of the weirdest topics to date. I think from 273 scraps, Soap, suds, and saws. So take it take it where you will.

Steve Shaw: Okay. It's gonna make sense at some point. I'll start with that. Okay. So first of all, first of all, I I I try to do my best to make my actions match my actions. words right so i i always find myself saying family first you know a lot of us do and if i'm gonna say family first i gotta make the actions follow suit right so i want to just start with family real quick i mentioned before i'm i'm a husband and a father I got two beautiful boys and an amazing wife who's watching right now. so my wife is a psychologist. Okay. when we first started dating, we were like, okay, so what you what do you want me to do? Do you want to stay at home with kids? Do you want me to go to work? What what's that look like? So I go, listen, I'd like you to go to school, knock it out, and get that all just done. So she did. She knocked out her doctorate. When she was going to school for psychology, she did her research on firefighter stress Okay, behavioral health and fire fire stress, right? So she got a ton of surveys done with a ton of different fire departments. She's compiling all the data and it's a lot, right? If you've ever known anybody that's gone through the doctorate, it's it's grueling, right? So we're sitting down one night and she's like, you know, I'm I'm gathering all this data and I'm noticing some some trends. I'm like, oh really? Well, what are those trends? She goes, well, first of all, you know, your sleep patterns suck. And I'm like, yeah, tell me about it, right? Right, right. So and that's a whole other topic for another day. And I'm so glad that the fire service right now is really, really talking about that. That's huge. She goes, and the second thing is, you know, your coping mechanisms need work. I'm like, well, what do you mean? She goes, you know, you guys don't cope very well

Corley: Dar dark humor and alcohol is not the not the end. Steve Shaw: psychologist, whatever. Corley: You know, and then there's the bad stuff, the sleeping around, the drinking, the drugs, the self-medication and the yeah, absolutely. Destructive behavior. Steve Shaw: Yeah. And you know, when she said that to me, oh, by the way, let me pause there for a second If my wife's listening right now, she's probably saying to herself, that's not what exactly what I said, Steve. So I'm just gonna say right now, if I tell you a story about my wife, it's how I interpreted it. So if you ask her, she's gonna be like, that's not what I said, whatever. Okay But God bless us. Corley: I like this caveat already. I'm gonna have to file that away to use in the future. Steve Shaw: So I really thought about the the coping part of that. know i i i thought about all the stuff we see and the stuff we do and what do we do when we get home what do we do when we pull away from the job because you know it as well as I do this is a such an easy job to just dive so deep in and how many of us do that just to the nth degree we it becomes us it defines us right and i'll be honest i was starting to head down that path I was really starting to head down that path. I was teaching a lot. And I used the classic excuses that everybody does. I'm like, honey, you want me to make a paycheck, right? You want me to go do this. You want me to get promoted, right? So I kept using those excuses over and over again. And the wife's like, whatever. And eventually it came to a head where we had, you know, that talk and just kind of settled down or whatever. But regardless of that, you know, in terms of coming home from busy shifts, seeing a lot of stuff like we all do, you know, I really took the heart on how do we cope? How do we cope, right? And I'm blessed to have just a family that likes to listen, likes to talk to me. And you know, and my wife does that for me. So I have that. And I value that. And I try to default to her.

Steve Shaw: In other words If there's conferences I'm going to be teaching at or opportunities to leave, I always try to pull back just a little bit and say, okay, is this right for me and her? Because that's got to start there, right? But in terms of coping, like yeah, we all have our different ways to cope, right? Some people like to go to the gym, some people like the woodwork, some people I I You mentioned before I got a chemistry degree, right? So I don't know exactly how it happened, but I got interested in making soap at home, okay? So So let me just throw this out there now, just to make sure I get it out there so the laughing can stop. I'm a registered male nurse and I make soap at home. Okay, let's just get it out there, get it out, just the laughs out and everything. But so I just started making soap, right? And I I Just enjoyed it. I just, you know, it's it's chemistry, it's lye, it's oils, all kinds of stuff. and I just started making it right. And it's funny because I started like bringing it to the firehouse, making it for gifts, and people at you know, this is bringing in a bar of soap for firefighters.

Corley: Right, right. Steve Shaw: I'm tracking like like the common con the common response was thank you? Like with an upward inflection? Like what do I do with this, right? Really funny story. Now this is I'm I'm gonna drift off into a ton of stories, right? Okay. Enjoy. A buddy of mine at the at the job, Keith Garner, he's a driver over in Fort Lauderdale Super amazing guy, dialed in driver. He's the mitigator. You put him anywhere. He's the kind of guy you keep in a box that says break in case of anything. Crack, get him out there. He's just awesome, right? So one day I was having trouble with my truck and he goes, bring it over to my house, I'll fix them. Cool. So that cat spends all day fixing my truck. All day. I get done with it. I'm like, what do I owe you? He goes, you don't owe me a thing. I'm like, no, dude, no, no, no. I got to pay you. I've got to do something. He goes, no, get out of here. You don't owe me a thing. I'm like, damn it. So I'm driving home and I'm just stupid. I'm like, I got I got to do something for this guy right so i'm like i know i'll make him a batch of soap so so i i go home and i whip up this Cedar, orange, gritty, garage bar of soap, right? It's actually pretty damn pretty damn good, right?

Speaker 4: Okay. Steve Shaw: So I bring it back to the firehouse and he's not there. So I put it in a bag, leave it on his bunk, and I head out I get a phone call in a few minutes and it's Keith. I'm like, hey man, what's up? He goes, dude, what is on my bed? What is this? I'm like, it's soap, Keith. He's like, what? And I go, listen, dude, I didn't know what to get you. I didn't I I made you a batch of soap, okay? He's like, thank you. And and that was it, right? So a week later, I go back to the firehouse. This was downtown. And for whatever reason, in the kitchen. At station two, it was packed. Like from the fire chief all the way down to the least senior firefighter. There was just a ton of people in the room, right? So I spot Keith, like I walk in on one side, he walks in on the other. I spot Keith across the hallway And I'm like, and he sees me, he goes, hey Shaw. I'm like, hey man, what's up? He goes, dude, you know what's screwed up? I'm like, no, Keith, what's screwed up? He goes, and everybody, everybody at this point is listening. Yeah, everybody's just tuning in. And I'm like, goes, dude, when I'm washing myself, I'm thinking about you. And the whole station just cracks. The fire teeth's cracking up. Everybody's cracking up. The firefighters are cracking up. And I'm like, I'm out. I'm done. But but so so that was like the beginning of the legend of the soap, right? But for me, with that, with if and the other thing I do is I brew beer at home. You know, again, right? But they're there these just ways to to cope with the job. You have to pay attention to what you're doing. You gotta focus on it. You know If you talk to a lot of people that are in sports, they talk about certain sports that you have to be involved. You have to be engaged, whether it's rock climbing, jujitsu, you have to be focused on it. If you're not focused, you're gonna get hurt. I'm messing with a Big old batch of lie. If I spill that, I'm going to the hospital as a as a trauma. It's gonna be bad.

Steve Shaw: So you have to focus. So it kind of takes your mind off things. It allows you to just focus on things and it's just different It's just different than what I'm used to. And the beer, same thing. I I I make pretty damn good beer. I'm just gonna throw that out there, right? Okay. Okay. I'm not a big drinker. I just enjoy making it, you know, and but again, it's it's it brings out some of the creative side, some of the side you don't usually use, but it just is deterrent from thinking about the things you see in the job. So that's in a nutshell kind of where all that comes from. At my at my last FDIC presentation. I think it was where we first met. It was funny because I was talking to the crowd, asking them questions, like, you know, you're getting involved. And they're answering asking. answer some of the questions and as they answered them I'll go hey thank you so much by the way here is a bar of you know rosemary lavender whatever you know oil castor oil shea butter soap and they're like the same thing they're like what what But but I swear to you, I swear to you, whether it's the guy that I gave the bar of soap to or the wife at home, whatever they're calling me, going, dude, that's that's pretty good soap, man.

Corley: So you're a pretty good brewer and pretty good soap is there a title for a soap maker or is it? It's like, you know, like a hoop a cooper what made barrels, you know, or it's saponification, so a saponi Steve Shaw: I don't know. Corley: Sponifier. It's officially on the scrap, it's now Saponifier. Steve Shaw: We'll just call this Shaw's Suds. How about that? Corley: We'll just I like it. Steve Shaw: No, but to answer the question and to get this started, I I think that that's where I go to when I want to go home to Just just unwind, find ways to cope, whether it's working out, whether it's doing other things, hanging out with the kids, the boys, or just doing that in the garage, it's a way to cope for some of the stuff we see. So that's where that's where all that came from, long story short. Corley: I love a couple things I want to ask. Hey, I got some some stuff to read from the audience, which I love Luke Stevenson checking in from down under. He says the first rule of soap club is you don't talk about soap club. So and that and that really does encapsulate what I know about making soap. So I'm like, do you actually like break in and get the the human fat like fight club just so you can make soap or any is that just all I get lye and I get oils

Steve Shaw: And and that's basically it. You could use any oil, any lyee, or a lye in any oil, put it together and if you make it the right concentration, it's basically soap. So theoretically, whether it's body fat, whether it's baking grease, whatever, you can make soap with anyone. oil it's any oil it's pretty fascinating when when you when you break down but it's it's it's I get I if you can imagine I've I've received a lot of banter from the guys over the years over the course of almost 20 years from the guys to the firehouse man they god bless them they're relentless but i love it it's how long have you how long have you been making soap shoot i i can't even remember man i've been making it for a long time I I I want to say close to two decades now measureing. Corley: I was gonna say are you measuring in decades or years here? So you say two decades, that's good. The other thing I'll ask on brewing, which I don't know anything about brewing. I'm much better at drinking than I am But what type of beer? Is it a light beer, dark beer, Pilsner, ale, what?

Steve Shaw: Yes. I do have heavy beers. I do heavy beers. For me, I'm not a big drinker, so I want one beer that's gonna be that that's it. You know, so I'm doing like nine ish percent scouts, I'll do imperial IPAs, I'll just do those heavy like almost like drinking liquid bread, you know, just like heavy beers. My wife, by the way, stopped me on that I I was now when I brew, I brew like 10 gallons at a time, right? That's a lot. And for me, my wife, that might last us shoot, four-ish months. I mean, it's gonna last us a while So once I brewed this really ridiculous stout. It was like a porter, like close to 10%. It was stupid. It was like just literally liquid bread. It was really good. Really good. But after one glass, you're like, dude, I I I'm I'm good. Not only am I am I am I feeling it, I the calories are just way too much. And my wife, she tries it one night and she goes This is nice, but let me ask you, you made 10 gallons of this? Like, yeah. She goes, Don't ever do that again. I'm like, yes, ma'am. So now I just do like lighter IPAs. That's that's what I do. That's what the family favorites. My wife and I's favorites

Corley: Awesome, man. I love it. I love it. Get your questions in if you have questions for Steve, even if it's on saponification. And yeah. All right. One of your current projects, you're probably the probably the current project that is absorbing all of your focus right now. it's is Starting a new fire rescue agency. Yeah. Let's let's hear about this and the challenges of it, especially because you're starting from, this is amazing to me, you're starting from zero. Steve Shaw: Right. So long story short, we're we're building the town of Jupiter Fire Rescue Department from the ground up. And with that comes trucks a couple stations, infrastructure, tools, equipment, policies, procedures, all the stuff that you normally come in with in the fire department, that's what we're putting together from the ground up. We go into service 1st of October in 2026. So between now and then we just do everything that build everything that's required for a fire department. And it's it's been I think seven months now and I I gotta tell you, I I love it. I'm so happy. and it's not that I didn't love Fort Waterdale. I I I love, love Fort Waterdale. But when this opportunity came up, I just I couldn't pass it up. And to give you just a context of like where I'm at today with it. Right now it's myself, the fire chief. We've hired three additional chief officers. There's two civilian support staff, so we have a total of seven right now. we got a whole if I showed you my task list, you just jump out of a window. It's so ridiculous. huge but it's all detailed it's very awesome I I went home recently after one of our late nights here and and listen we're it we're working our rear ends off it's it's a lot of work right so i go home recently one night and my wife looks at me and she's like wow you you you look exhausted i'm like honey i'm i'm i'm pretty tired yeah i guess a lot to do and there's more to do after this She goes, well, you're exhausted, but you're not miserable. And I'm like, well, what do you mean by that? She goes, well, you know, some days you would come home from Fort Lauderdale and you would just be done. You didn't want to talk about it.

Steve Shaw: You were just it didn't happen all the time, but you were just you just some days you were just done and you didn't want to talk. You just were ready to just disconnect and be done with it. Right, right. She goes now you come home and you just can't stop talking about you want to talk you want to walk around the neighborhood talk about things you want to ask my opinion about things but more importantly she says you know You're present with me, you're present with the kids, and you got this energy you haven't had for. You're more balanced than you ever have been. And I'm like, well, and she goes, yeah, so whatever this is, let's keep doing this. Now, now I I I will tell you that I think some of my my buddies are like, well, that's because you have no firefighters to drive you crazy. And that may be that may be fair. That may be fair. But just It when my wife said that, you know, in terms of like balance and whatnot with the kids and whatnot, especially, that spoke to me. And that it makes me realize that when I'm what I'm doing here is on the right path Right. You had Jim Moss on a while back, right?

Corley: Yes, yes. Steve Shaw: So I did his podcast several years ago and you know he always asked that question, how do you how do you what's success to you? Right? Yeah. So I told him I go, listen My version of success is pretty simple. If I can go home to my wife and my two kids as a moral and ethical man, I'm I'm succeeding. If I can go home to my wife and say, you know, honey, I did good, I'm good. If I go home to my kids and say, boys, daddy did good today. than then I've done well. So I think about that a lot. And it's a lot of work. There's a lot of work coming up. Everything from like the the the the I guess the the technical challenges of infrastructure to the adaptive challenges of culture creation and expectations and all that jazz and the relationships across the board. And I gotta tell you though, I I I I'm just, I could talk about it all day. I'm so excited to do this. And it's, it's a, it's to be able to create something like this is amazing. Like, let me let me put it this way. And this I think most people will understand when they're listening. You know how if you go teach at a fire academy, you're teaching with a cohort of guys from different departments or guys or girls from different departments, right? And you always say with that with that core group, you're like, man, imagine if we can work together. Wouldn't that be awesome? Like a the fire department again.

Corley: Right. Steve Shaw: Well that's kind of what we're doing. We're we're we're we're hiring the people that are ex exactly the the the match, the the the right the person, the right work ethic. Are they good more all the right people that we want to work together with. And it's it's just it's growing, it's amazing, so positive, and there's just so much good that it's gonna come out of this. It's incredible. Corley: I love it, dude. I love it, man. I love your enthusiasm for it. I love your passion for it. And your definition of success, man. And it's all tied together. It's just beautiful. I got questions coming from the audience. So here they come. Are you ready for your first ones from the audience? Steve Shaw: Bring it. Bring it. Corley: I want to get Stenders out of the way because it's it's he asked it earlier, but how do you get your hands on Shaw's soap? Steve Shaw: Okay. You know, you had Mike Salzano on this on the show a while back, right? Corley: Yeah, a while back. Steve Shaw: So funny story. Mike says to me one day, he just comes out of the blue, and you know, at this point I've been making like soap for a long time, right? I don't know when it was or where it happened, but he comes up to me one day and goes, dude, you screwed up. And I'm like, excuse me? And it was almost like fighting words, like the way you said it. I'm like, what? And he goes, yeah, you screwed up. I'm like, what are you talking about? He goes, Steve, I just bought a bar of Dr. Squatch soap for like nine or ten bucks And I'm like, yeah, I know where you're going with this. He goes, yeah, you could be doing this and probably do better than the this in the fire department. Yeah, I know, I know. But no, it's just it it's I I don't sell it. It's it's so busy. I can't get it. I get it. I would love I would love like to go to FDIC and have a booth and all that kind of stuff. There's just no reason.

Corley: time no i get it dr shaw would not let me do that on the side okay let's put it that way all right so we'll get to the serious question which it was a serious question but serious questions about the topic of building a new Fire rescue service from the ground up. Adam wants to know what do you focus on first? Firehouses, facilities, or sourcing apparatus? What was what kind of what was your I don't know. Priority. Priority list. Steve Shaw: What's Adam's last name? Corley: I don't know. It's just Adam on YouTube. So he if he posts it, I'll tell you. Steve Shaw: Gotcha. Okay. so long story short, a lot of stuff was done before we got there, and it was done very smartly. In other words, they knew that stations would take a lot of time to build. So that was already still the the guts of that were starting to move. They knew trucks were going to take a long time. As we know in the fire service, buying a truck these days not only the expensive but it takes a long time to get them so those are put on order even before I got here. So they're thinking about those long-term capital moves way before because there's a timeline, a time a time frame that we're working with. So it was all done. And now it's basically if I could put this in the simplest of terms. It's seasons. So the first season is going to be infrastructure and buying things to make sure we get all the infrastructure in place, buying and building and whatnot. And the second season is going to be hiring and training. That's that's as simple bread and butter as I can put it. Right. but that's essentially what we're doing. But what I've I've learned from this process so far, it's only been seven months, is I you know you take a lot away from what's happening. And one of the things, okay, so I'm I'm drifting here, but I think there's a point to this. when I was going when I'm I'm in the EFO program at the National Fire Academy, right? Okay. So my initial project was going to be on the homeless crisis. Because in Fort Lauderdale, that was a significant issue. So we're going to focus on that. But coming to Jupiter, it's it's a little bit different of a dynamic.

Steve Shaw: So I tried, I switched over to building culture or new organization. That was my main topic And I started to do research, started to talk to people, and I came in contact with Dr. John Cotter's book about chain. And how change, yeah. Yeah. So he wrote the book on change, right? And he has this eight-step process, right? And the the first step in that is you have to have this and I always forget this. Corley: Urgency is it? Steve Shaw: Thank you. Oh my gosh. I I don't know why I can't remember that word every time I think about it, but you have to have this sense of urgency, right? So it's so interesting because I'm watching that in real time. So for example, and this this goes across the board, not only for what we're doing, but in general, whether there's a project, you're starting a new team, firehouse, whatever. This is like this is This is good for anything. So our our town manager, who's amazing, this guy is just the bomb. Every meeting we have, he starts it off with, you know, hi everybody. By the way, October 1st, 2026, we start running calls. So where are we at? Where are we at trucks? Where do we have stations? Where are we at this? And everybody's held accountable across the board. And you as you're watching it, you're like, wow, it's amazing. And everybody's on time. things on budget, it's amazing to watch. And thinking about that and extrapolating it, I always look back at it from like Fort Lauderdale days. I'm like, did I do that enough? Did I follow those steps? steps. What did I misstep to where things took longer or didn't go according to plan? But just to watch it right there, like it's like a Peter, just you're watching it take place. So it's just there's tons that I'm I it's just amazing to watch, like I said.

Corley: No, no, I could hear the enthusiasm. so yeah, Haywood, Adam Haywood was the The name. My man Adam. He did send it. HLC Miller wants to know, amazing opportunity. No old staff decisions to overcome. How do you build a good culture from absolute scratch? What you're touching on, and I love this topic. So this culture is one of my favorite topics. So anyway. Steve Shaw: Yeah. So well, okay. I yeah again, I did a lot of research on this. I talked to a lot of people, not only through just talking to them, but like through the EFO process interviews and whatnot, and just really diving deep into what that looks like. And I will tell you, obviously it starts from the top. You know, it starts from the top. And and my boss is amazing. And he's probably watching this. I'm not trying to blow his skirt up or anything, but He's doing it right. You know, he's he's talking to us, he's communicating with us, we're we're we're I'm learning a lot from him, let's put it that way. And he said in the culture from the beginning. In other words, the general topics like you know, like for me, for example. I was talking to a buddy of mine in I think it was Fort Lauderdale and he made the comment like, you know what? I think I know if I ever got a job there, what it would be like. I'm like, oh yeah, do tell. What's it gonna be like? He goes, well I know you and you like to train, so we're gonna train every single day. I'm like, yeah, you're 100% right. Every single day was a training day. That is the standard there's no breaking it that is it whether it's 10 minutes on a piece of equipment or a protocol review or whatever or eight hours at a service in your gear and acquired structure training is happening every single single day. That is the baseline. He goes, okay, I knew that. And he goes, also you're probably going to want us to do a lot of community events. I'm like, yeah, you're going to be resident centric. civilian focused, you're going to know your community better than any place you've ever worked before, and they're going to know you by name, by face, the whole nine. You're going to be deep involved.

Steve Shaw: He goes, oh okay, okay. And we we may get to sleep at night. I'm like, maybe, I don't know. I'm not gonna try to bother you at night, but that's a good baseline of what you said. But you know, it starts from setting those expectations. And I think about that a lot because when I look back And you know, retiring from Fort Lauderdale. And anybody who's on this that's retired before, maybe they have the same experience I do, but you you find yourself just reflecting, you know, not regretting, but just reflecting. And I I think about some of the bigger ticket items, the projects, whatever that I've worked on in the past. And I think about, you know, if they worked, okay, great, but what made them work? And if they didn't, what made them not work? And I always go back to I the the ones that didn't work as well, I didn't set the expectations well enough. I didn't make the expectations clear or they were blurry or they weren't set out loud or I assume So that right there to me is big. Just being very intentional and deliberate and crystal clear about expectations and those things Like for example, there's several people that have reached out to me that I think in their minds, when we get this started, they're thinking this is going to be some sort of retirement gig. You know, they're going to just hang at the station, pop their feet up, and just wait for calls to come in. God bless them. And if that's what they want, that's great, but it ain't gonna happen here. This is totally different, especially in the first few years. We're gonna be working, we're gonna be getting to know things. Zone familiarization, training all the time. And if they're not ready for that, that's fine. There's no big deal. But you know, this it's not what you're looking for. Right. So again, but again, going back to expectations, you understand that is important. And that goes with anything, I think. Whether it's your your job in general. Like if in Broward County you're getting hired with Fort Lauderdale versus another department, you know what you're getting. If you're getting hired with Fort Lauderdale, you're gonna be beat up. You're gonna be running calls, you'll be up all night If you don't want that, then don't apply, man.

Steve Shaw: Same token, if you want to work for small town versus county or whatever, it it's it's yours to pick these days You can it's it's it's a it's a buyer's market, okay? But it's so important for people to know it's it's important for the employer and the employee to have that match to make that coexist. So I I don't even know where I was going with this by the way. Culture. That's what you say. Culture. Okay. So that's just some of the some of the the first things that come up. But you know, just I'm trying to think of some of the other major Corley: But one thing I want to just drill on to and and latch on to, and I love the answer about it to Miller's question, which I think I have a working theory that is almost I I f I believe in it very, very hardly. I'm sure there's exceptions, but any problem you find in an organization, I don't care if we're talking fire service or or life or even marriage or relationships or whatever, it you can if you drill down far enough, you can almost find the the root is. expectations that were unclear or unexpressed in some way, shape, or form. A lot of people say communication is the root of all you know problems if you really drill down far enough. But I really think it's the communication of those expectations. Is is and it's yeah, sorry. So I love the answer, but I got more I want to throw at you. So Zay Z Justin Ziegler, Ziegler, I'm sorry, Justin, if I butcher it Welcome to the scrap. What is the most unique thing you are planning to do? I like this question, so I wanted to hear.

Steve Shaw: Well, let me see, how do we answer that? Corley: And nothing but easy questions, by the way. Steve Shaw: Oh yeah. Well, you know, here's the thing. and we get this a lot, you know, it we're starting a fire department in in 2020. You know, what does that look like? So we can't not do this to the highest level of our abilities, you know. So right now the big talks are, you know, just making sure that we're carrying on that amazing work that's already being done out there. In other words, if you look at the the South Florida area, dude, I'm not I'm gonna brag about South Florida. We're we got some rock stars down here. Everything from the EMSI, technical rescue, firefighting, dude. There's something about South Florida. We do it right. And I not and I know there's other places in the country that do it too, but I'm I've obviously polarized, right? But in the South Florida community And I use that word community. We just, we just do we do some things right here. So we're aware of what's right, making sure that baseline is solid so that no matter who we're working with. We're on the same protocols. We're on the same level. We can co coexist, you know, knowing who the industry partners are, make those those established partnerships with all the industry across the board, whether it's the hospitals systems, private industry, whatever, the boats, you know, because we're Jupiter, the boats, those those kind of things. so the bait a lot of the basics, you know, getting really good at the basics. And we could talk about that all day.

Corley: All day. Steve Shaw: But in terms of that, just making sure that where do I want to go with this? Just I think that's the start. In other words, we know what the baseline. We were aware and cognizant of all the good stuff that's being out there. So we have to be at that level. And kind of taking it from almost a community paramedicine standpoint. I'm sorry I'm diving into EMS, but that's kind of what I do too. But you know, just really knowing the community, really knowing what those needs are and filling those needs, whatever that looks like. Whatever that looks like. So for me, just you know, random things. If I'm looking over the the the community, you know, we we border two major highways, the Turnpike and 95. So we're it comes to car accidents, extrication, knowledge on lithium battery fi you know fires, those kind of things. We have to be, that's our baseline. We have to be experts at that. Vehicle extrication, all that jazz When I look at the water, are we prepared for any water incident? Those kind of things. So we're always thinking about those things. So really just making sure we tailor everything we do and I'm sorry I'm drifting, but that's kind of where my mind goes, in other words, I'm really making it square. But you know, and that's the other thing is one of the challenges. that we will have is the people that we hire from other agencies because that's what's going to happen. We're going to have like I guess you call them later transfers maybe. And I was talking to Danny Dwyer about this. You know, Danny from Yeah. Okay. I don't know what it is about Danny. I I started talking to him once and we just jive, man. I just I really dig that cat.

Corley: I think he has that effect on on everybody he meets. He's just he's just a likable dude, man. Steve Shaw: Like he could do some goofy things. I could turn around and go, I don't know what he said or did. But I like the guy. He's just a likable cat, right? So but it's interesting because what he's doing, what they're doing in Roswell right now, they're doing amazing things by the way. the way they transitioned to the the 4896 but most importantly they're they're starting to build a full-time fire department from a part-time fire department So all of the part-timers that were working from other organizations are now applying for full-time positions. So essentially, they're kind of doing a little bit of what we're doing. Right. So we're going to hire different people from other organizations and based on their experience, you know, we'll go from there. But the same challenge is going to exist there. In other words, we're hiring because of experience. We're hiring because of your knowledge base, your experience, what you bring to the table, right? Cool. But that's a lot of different perspectives That's a lot of different shared experiences. That's a lot of different protocols, a lot of different traditions and all that jazz. Okay, everybody's here. Does everybody understand that we are on the same ship? This is the ship we're sailing on. So that's going to be the challenge that Daniel's dealing with. That's going to be what we're dealing with. In other words, the respect and admiration for all of the experience that people are bringing in. But hey, now that you're here, this is the boat we're on. This is our com this is this is the expectation. Right. These are our standards. Everybody's on the same boat. This is how we move forward.

Corley: Does that make that oh dude but absolutely Bruce Tuckman's model of Teams for you know storming, forming. Yeah forming norm yeah what is it forming storming norming anyway I can only imagine how that curve is gonna look for a for a brand new organism. This isn't a new crew coming together. This is a department, you know, so someone had a question here I wanted to ask. It was I'm looking, I'm looking. Nathan Sturm, Nate, Nate checking in said, Chief, can you elaborate on the size of the department you are building Stations, personnel, et cetera. Yeah, it's gonna be also is it all is it prof is it paid, a volunteer combination, or what what's the plan? Steve Shaw: That's a good question. Well in South Florida, in the Tri-County area, when I say Tri-County, it's it's Palm Beach County, Broward, and Miami. That's traditionally what we refer to as as tri-county, at least where I come from. it's mostly a career firefighters. There's a handful of volunteer, like just a single digit number of volunteer departments. and and like the the average areas or the the surrounding areas, it'll be you know full-time career fire departments. three stations and and three engines, three rescues and a ladder truck. so somewhere and I don't know the numbers exactly but whatever the consultant's report says we're starting with that it's gonna be somewhere around a hundred a little bit more and these and please don't quote me in these numbers because I'm not looking at the numbers right now and but it's gonna be three stations worth of individuals and running around the the the

Corley: And you mentioned 4896 up there with Dwyer. Are you do you have you guys settled on a shift schedule or anything like that yet? Or is it all still Up and flux. Steve Shaw: We're let's put it this way. We're we're very aware of all the dynamics that are out there. We're very aware, especially in our area. Okay. So we're aware of it. right now we're still slated to do just the standard schedule like 24-40 But you know, we're we're aware of it. We're watching, and you know, it's something we'll have to to look at. but yeah, we're aware, just like James Gearing, I know he's done a lot of work on the the twenty the twenty 24 for 72s. He's one of the big champions out there right now. There's podcasts, there's panels and everything. So no, we're we're well aware of the dynamics and we're we're keeping our eye on things. Corley: And I'm bringing Gearing back on to just to specifically, well, he has his new book out, so that's the main reason I'm bringing him on, but also to talk about his work on championing that that the 2472. Absolutely. Great questions, by the way, from everybody that asked. I already forgot. Nathan, Luke Stevenson asked about the the style. So thank you, thank you. All right, I'm coming here to throw this at you. Luke Stevenson again, also coming from Australia. He throws some of the best questions. So what's the most surprising unknown unknown you've encountered so far? Something you didn't know you needed to think about because you just didn't know when you're like, oh wait, this is foundational, like that kind of thing.

Steve Shaw: Okay, I'll I'll say this. okay, this is gonna drift pretty deep. Okay, this is gonna travel. I'll I'll just throw it out there right now. So Taking this position, I I wouldn't have been able to take this position last year at this time. And the reason is is quite frankly, I have this massive case of imposter syndrome. Okay. Right. And I don't know how many people out there have dealt with that that That imposter syndrome. I you know, and it this is kind of weird. I mean, I've been teaching at FDIC, writing articles, whatever But just there were days where I'm like, man, who am I to do this? You know, I'm not ready for this. You know, those standard things. You're like, I need to do this before I could do that. I'm not ready for that, and so on and so forth. And one of my best friends in the fire service, Mark Rossi, who's listening in with his rail yard dogs right now at Station 8 in Fort Lauderdale. Mark Rossi and I are boys, okay? We've been friends since we were kids in the fire service. I always tell people that what I realized in Fort Lauderdale is at the end of the career, I was just just recapping and recalling and reflecting on all the relationships that were built, right? So there's always going to be that like single-digit number of relationships that last the test They're gonna be your friends for till you die. There's gonna be a whole host of acquaintances of a different levels that you see more than most or are not, and then there's gonna be people that you just Just close the chapter, it's over. And that's okay. That's just life. That's just change, right? Mark's one of those single-digit numbers. We're gonna be friends for till we die. Okay. but Mark said to me once last year, and I always give him credit for that. this he just stops me one day he goes Steve you gotta stop it you just gotta stop it get that crap out of your mind in other words stop having that imposter syndrome and I'm so glad that he said that and there was a couple of things that happened around the same time but He he's like stop I don't know exactly how he said it, but again, I'm in the interpretation was stop doubting yourself.

Speaker 4: Yeah. Steve Shaw: And I thought about that a lot. And I think about anybody who's listening who's ever had that that idea of imposter syndrome I get it. I I've been there, you know? and so when I took this role and I applied for this role, I I went in there knowing that, dude, I don't know everything. I'm applying as a deputy chief for a new organization we're building from the ground up. I don't know. everything. I don't, you know, I I know what I know. I'm decent at training. I'm decent at EMS. I got some other things. I can swing I can swing a saw like a surgeon. but you know, a lot of things I've I've not done before, not done not done as much as if I would have worked in those areas like prevention and those. Sure, sure. And So becoming here, a combination of things. One, well, yeah, maybe I don't know everything, but I know a hell of a lot of people that do. And I have been absolutely shameless in reaching out to them saying, hey, help me with this. And no one said no. Nobody has said no. They've helped, they've helped me see things a different way. They've given me materials, whatever I've needed. And it's amazing. And my boss is great. My boss is like, listen, we'll figure this out. That's the attitude. We'll figure it out. And it reminds me of like USAR. When I'm on the USAR team The the response is never we can't do that. The response is it's a mission. Let's go, let's do it. Let's give it to us. We got it. We'll figure it out. And I love that. And so that's what I'm feeling now, that that atmosphere of we'll figure it out. it out we got this we're not only gonna figure it out we're gonna do a damn good job doing it so going back to the question I I guess just you know Well, and I'm drifting again. What I noticed is in doing this, I feel like, and I say this to a lot of people, what I consider myself now as, and what I seem to see we doing is We're interpreters. We're translators to an organization, an amazing organization that's never had their own fire rescue department, right? So as an example, you'll love this.

Steve Shaw: So we're we're looking at fire stations, right? And we're building fire stations. And one of the fire stations, one of the planners is looking at us and we're talking about it. And she's like, well, how many people are going to be at the station? I'm like, about 10. Okay. So you need 10 parking spots. No, no, we need like at least 20. Why do you need 20? Because of shift change. What's shift change? Let me explain. So imagine that coraling times 10,000. Like every day there's this opportunity to translate what we're doing, why, and why it's important to the fire science. Nice, nice. So it I mean everything. And that's it, I it's not a it's not a hassle, it's actually a blessing. But it reminds me I'm telling somebody something that they're hearing, maybe for the first time, gotta be right. It's gotta be accurate. I gotta have the references. I gotta make sure I know where I found it. Because this is the first time they're hearing it. And you know as well as we do, or as I do, in the fire service, our weight, our our words have weight. Oh yeah. When we say something, people listen to us. They trust us. They trust us without knowing us. So if I'm gonna tell somebody something, they've gotta trust us. And I have to make sure that on our end, I know I've done my research. Like this is what you need to know and why, you know So, and that's everything from why do we do push-in ceremonies with trucks to why what's a Dalmatian? Yeah, those kind of things. you know yeah but it's it's a sobering reminder that every day I come in I've got to make sure that I'm translating the right way but also I'm modeling in other words I'm now an employee of the town. They're seeing me. Okay, you're you're our firefighter, so whatever you do must be the normal. So I gotta I gotta make sure I model the proper behavior, the proper the way I talk, the way I present myself and re respect the town. It's a lot, man, but I I don't even know if I'm answering the question, but it just

Corley: It's the scrap. It's a beautiful answer. And I mean that. I mean that. I will interrupt you and cut you off if I feel like it's not good. But no, it's a beautiful answer. I love it. I like this question. There's a lot of good questions over here Here. But I like this one. And I'll I'll qualify it before I ask you it. If Steve doesn't want to answer, because it's something that's in the process or being worked on and or I I don't want to say proprietary because that's not what I mean but but basically if it's not it's not something he wants to discuss at this point then you can you feel free to to to play the passcard but Zachary Wendell said chief because I like this question But in your opinion, do you think it's better to build a strong search culture first or a stronger engine company culture? Obviously they both need to exist, but do you think one lays a better foundation for the other in regards to building a new culture in a department? Steve Shaw: Wow, that's a great question. Corley: I really liked it, but I didn't I also didn't want to step on you if you're still building out your vision. You know what I'm saying?

Steve Shaw: Well, truth be told, you know, like, and we talked about this a little bit before, you know, we talked about search. And the fact that part of our the content of all the training material will be everything that's the what everything that's being done right now out there that's the new stuff, that's going to be the baseline I mean, the updated search stuff, the firefighter rescue survey, Basil's Mayday survey, Flow Pass, the whole night, all that's going to be the baseline. So I think the the way I'm gonna answer this is kind of cryptic, and I don't mean it to be that way, but I have a feeling that when all is said and done everybody's here and we're all learning and and and and they're in their in they're they're they're they're training you're gonna have people that are gonna want to just learn again They're gonna want to learn again. In other words, I come from Fort Lauderdale. Okay, I've done a certain thing a certain way my entire career. You come from the Moore Fire Department, Feeder Department. We've all learned something We have to come together and relearn it together. So whether it's search, whether it's it's engine ops, whether it's throwing ladders, whatever it is, it It's a time to reset a little bit. Not maybe reset totally, but just make sure we're on the same page. So especially with search, a lot has been done with search. And if you come from a department that let's say just hasn't kept up, and no no no no bad blood anywhere, but it's hard to keep up with all stuff. If you come from a department that hasn't kept up with the latest and greatest stuff that's coming out of let's say the firefighter research for the the the rescue survey or what grant's doing or all those cats are doing, all the data that's validating things like VES and stuff. If you haven't heard in for a while, we can't assume you know it. So we've got to start from somewhere strong, but we have to make sure everybody is is is built up from the bottom up. So it's going to be a little bit of a refresh, but I have a feeling that The people that they want that. They're going to want that. Like it's like it's like being in a crowd and you know you have a question, but you don't want to ask it, right?

Steve Shaw: You don't want to feel like a goofball. Right. Well, I that's what's going to happen here. Everybody's come from different places, different walks of life with different experiences. And maybe they just didn't ever get that. Maybe they're like, I I you know man. We're gonna break it down to make sure everybody's good in the video. Corley: You get a giant reset. You get a giant reset zero. I mean, yeah. Yeah, there's no baggage. I mean Steve Shaw: Yeah, so but going back to search and the line, to somewhat answer his question, I guess, I I don't think one maybe I'm saying that wrong. I don't know what the priorities are one over the other. I know that on those two topics though I will tell you, I'm a big fan of, you know, as goes the first line, so goes the fire. As goes the first line, so goes the fire. That is, that is, I've I've I've repeated that phrase so many times throughout my career that I believe in it. You know, being on enough, enough, a decent amount of structure fires to know that that's that sets the top. So we're going to be good at that that that line. We're going to be really damn good at pulling that hose line because that's how the fire goes. But search, I'm excited to dive right back into search myself and i and and just to full transparency and i was talking to to grant schwalby about this a few months ago and on on the podcast for fire engineering We were talking about search, and I mean out of all the things I've done, I was not a very good search person. And it's not that I didn't know how to do it, but my mindset wasn't there And Grant has a similar story, but you know, I've I've had two grabs in my career. In 29 years, I've had two grabs. And both times I was met with a victim, it was like, oh crap. There's a what do we do now? And that shouldn't be the way. It shouldn't be the default setting. Your default setting is it's like expect victims. You know, you're gonna find somebody. When you when you do find one, what are you going to do next Right on that's gotta be the plan. That's in your user default setting.

Steve Shaw: Like I will find somebody. And when I do, dot dot dot. Corley: Yes. Steve Shaw: So I hope that kind of answers your question, but I I guess what I wanted to say is just resetting the why we do things, the resetting of the hose line, why we're pulling it, the speed in which we gotta move. And when I speed again, I'm drifting here. speed. I just went to the lithium-ion battery symposium and in Ocala recently in Florida. Real amazing conference put on by the state of Florida and it was just solid, good information. So good, right? You know those videos you find on the research sites where you have legacy furniture and then furniture? Okay. They injected another one with lithium-ion battery like fires. And it's crazy because you see you know legacy furniture takes its time blah blah blah blah blah then modern burns pretty quickly then you have an e-bike in a room boom yeah yeah conflagration yeah but if we think when we talk about these things again this is going to be What's going to be the norm, like understanding that this is the this is what you have to know now, today, right now. This is this is fresh. You have to know this. And that bleeds into why search is so important and where to search and the hose line, how quickly we got to get there and blah, blah, blah. So I I don't know if I drifted too far or not. I I I think I'm down with it.

Corley: It was a beautiful drift. It was like it was like a beautiful I'm gonna bring I'm gonna use it to segue to this and and show this on the scrap tonight because This came in the mail yesterday. There it is, the beautiful red cover. The first grab edition. You can see it there. And you can see it's a proof. It says not for resell on it. You can see the the size of it kind of in scale. And this is why kind of to tie into it, how many of these people are from the state of Florida is is unreal. I don't know where the South Florida, mid-Florida panhandle breakover is But it is, man. This is your first sneak peek at it's not it's not the official because you can see all this. I don't know if you can actually see because of the light, but there is a lot of notes that are gonna be This is the proof, like I said. So anyway, but that is coming on the 28th. So a little bit of hype, man. it it looks I was so nervous yesterday opening that box when my wife brought it to the station because it came in the yesterday I was on duty. So I oh I I was like I d there was so much work that gone into it that I that I was just praying that when I pulled it out, it was as it was gonna be, and it was it was, it lived up to the expectation. It wasn't a disappointment. So super excited for that. Okay, that being said, I like this one. Let me see. Chris Nugent wants to know, do you have plans to create your own in-house academy to train your way or hire from an outside academy?

Steve Shaw: you know, what a lot of this is still like in the in the works and you know, it like you said, it's some of it's still stuff that we're still kind of not ready to put out there and some of it's still being created. So you know, we we we got a lot of we're still we're still looking over everything Right now, if that makes sense. And I'm not trying to avoid the question. It's just that you know a lot of it we're trying to keep in house until we get a nice, beautiful product, you know. Corley: Absolutely, bro. And again, any of these that are still in flux and you're still trying to figure out which way it's going, please don't feel like you have to answer I'm just gonna keep throwing questions at the end. Steve Shaw: If anybody's interested, you can go to the website. the Town of Jupiter Fire Rescue website has they've been really good about being very transparent with everything that's happened with the fire department. It's all there, all the information and whatnot. So if they ever want to look they can they can go there. Corley: Love it. Steve Shaw: Yeah Corley: Chris Wessels coming at you from Atlanta. Speaking of Dwyer, but Chris wants to know, are you recruiting only members who are current firefighters? or a combination with rookie firefighter. Are you going to do new hires and or just just combination.

Steve Shaw: Combination. Corley: Okay. You will have actual rookie starting out zero at Jupiter. Oh yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. Zachary Windows, they got a lot of questions. I hope you don't mind. Chief, in your opinion, do you think it's better to build oh I got you. I hit you with I hit you with Zachary's. That was a great question, Zach. All right. Luke Stevenson says, and I know I probably already know the I'm guessing I know the answer to this because I've you were already talking about your punch list and how long it is, but are you documenting what you are doing You could create a blueprint for anyone finding themselves in the same position in the future. And what will be the title of your book? Steve Shaw: Okay. So there's a journal app on my phone. Okay. I, for the first six months, I've been journaling almost every single day on the way home from work. I try to do it. It's been hard hard in the last couple weeks, but I'm I'm trying. to document as much as I possibly can because I don't want to miss any of the little nuggets that may just go by the wayside because I've got too busy to remember them. So I'm trying to to just keep everything and remember everything but do there's so much so I try to journal I try to do it I do it on the way home I put the journaling app on I just talk into it okay I just dump just dump everything no, and I think that's that's kind of it's it's an interesting question. I I think that we're we're learning a lot through this process as much as we're dumping a lot of energy and putting a lot of our our knowledge base to work. Of course we're learning, you know. Right, right. I think the the learning that's coming from this is applicable for big projects, small projects, whatever. And you know, and kind of like you, man, you you you do this for the value of the fire service. if if after this is over, even during it, you know, I whatever value I can bring, I'm there, man. I I I I'm in give back mode, if that makes sense. Like There was a I'm gonna look it up because I don't want to mess it up, but there's a quote that was said it was By a Houston chief, not a Houston.

Steve Shaw: Live in the red. Anyway, so I'm I'm in give back mode. long story short. I'll find this in a second, but I'll quote it so I don't make a mockery of it. But There's a lot again going back to retiring and then being around such amazing people through the course of you know my my career I'm never gonna be able to repay them, you know, and I I think about that a lot like even before coming on on tonight the lat yesterday I called Bill Gustin and talked to him a little bit, just thanking him. And he he hates that. He's like, Steve, Steve, you don't need to call me. Okay. And I'm like, you know, but I I try to give credit where credit's due. And I there's too much of a list to do that, but maybe through my actions that That's how you do it. Maybe whether it's like you presenting, writing articles, whatever, whatever that looks like I'm in. I I just I I feel a constant sense of giving back and it feels good to do for others, if that makes sense. Corley: Oh, absolutely. And The title of the book will be that year in 2024 when we built a fire department from the ground up. That's the working title.

Steve Shaw: We'll start there. Corley: No, absolutely, brother. I love that. Living the red, the giving back, all of it, man. I do, I do. Isaac Bueller wants to know what's the name of the journal app Steve Shaw: it's whatever, see here, it's whatever Apple has. It's just a journal app and I've just been dumping things into it. It's quite long. Holy crap, it's Corley: There you go. There you go. Okay. Pulling up the notes here. I think I've got yeah, I've cut up, I've caught up. Boom, boom, boom. I kind of covered that one, Pivoral, so if I pull up the right notes, boom, there we go. Bam. Rotary saws, overhead doors, South Florida entry, South Florida forcible entry versus the rest of the country. I kind of sense this like superiority complex from South Florida on there. Steve Shaw: I hope it doesn't come off that way. Corley: No, no, I I'm j I I'm busted your chops. But and also what it has to do with Gustin, because you just did a a pretty good gusting imitation there. So talk about rotary saws. You said you're a surgeon. Steve Shaw: So yeah, so Oh man, this was again going in decades. This is over two decades ago. I was working for Fort Lauderdale as a firefighter. We respond to a single story, single family CBS structure, attached garage, fire that had drifted into the house and my the order for me, and I can't remember what unit I was on, there's a reason I can't remember, but I was ordered to take the door, take the overhead door, take the garage door, okay And I kind of blocked it out of my head because I whatever I did to that door, I don't remember. It was just a it was a catastrophe. It was an absolute catastrophe. I was so busy with other things in my life I was given an opportunity to perform on scene and I just look like an absolute buffoon. I I mean I think there was at one point I remember banging on doors with mallets and metal flying everywhere. It was I looked like an absolute I was stupid, right? And I remember coming back from that saying, I am never gonna look like that again. I am never going to fail like that again. I'm never gonna make my department look bad again. Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna learn So on that topic, you know, overhead doors, garage doors, using saws, I just started kind of diving into it, studying.

Steve Shaw: I took it deep, man. I started just reading articles, reading books, talking to Subject matter experts, Gustin being one of them. I mean, I traveled East Coast to fire rescue, East, West Coast to fire rescue, West in San Diego. I just went all over the place. I was in that learning phase. I was just so hit by that that I'm like, I need to learn. Why did this happen? And and during my my education, I just I learned a ton. I got really good at not only learning about saws and how to use them and the whole anatomy and physiology about like overhead doors and all that jazz, but I I met Bill Gustin through this process just a little bit regionally brower county's up here so fort lauderdale's here miami dade's down here is where he works my brother works for miami dade fire rescue he's he's venom one actually He's in Miami Data. I think he's listening right now. He might be listening. but he worked with Gustin for quite some time down in Liberty City. He's got some that's a whole other set of stories that you can imagine. Corley: Okay. Steve Shaw: but in talking with Bill He just kind of took me under his wing and just gave and gave and gave. And, you know, it got to the point where I was teaching internally. I had developed videos and and And just just I was I was comfortable, more than comfortable, right? And I remember one day calling Bill and I'm like, hey, we're doing another training class. You know, you want to come up and train with us And he kind of yells at me. He's like, Steve, you don't need me anymore. Why are you calling me? And he didn't say that out of being mean. He was out of love. Like, you know, you're good. You're good. You've got this you got the blessing from the man and that and that sense of you know what you're right i do got this i am i'm good i got this and then it became not just about me but others like train And then when I started watching and some of the tacks that were performed, and when I say South Florida forcible entry, you know, South Florida is interesting because we have a lot of since Andrew came through, our our standards for hurricanes have kind of bolstered up our our our construction down here between hurricane glass, reinforced overhead doors, whether it's on commercial structures or more specifically homes residence residences.

Steve Shaw: but you have to you have to think about tactics a little bit differently. Corley: Sure, sure. Steve Shaw: So but I just I learned a lot from him and I owe him a lot. Going one step further Bill came to one of my classes at FDIC a couple years ago. And one of the guys that just popped a question earlier, Adam Haywood, he was on the in the class as well. Now Actually, no, let me go back one step. Adam, the guy that asked the question was in my first FDIC class, which was titled When Rotary Saws Meet Overhead Doors. Okay. And after I met him, after the class, we were just talking, shopping. He's listen, Adam's a saw geek, just like I am. So we just we just bonded, right? So we're talking about SAWs, talking about forcible entry, and he's like, hey, do you mind if I I work with you, collaborate with you, maybe get some of your information? And I'm like, and I thought about that. Everything stopped. And I thought, well, hold on a second. I can have one of two choices. I can go, nah, man, this is this is my stuff. I'm the saw guy. You can't touch this. This is mine. I'm the silo. This is my stuff. Or I can go, no, dude, because what of what Bill gave to me. So I did what Bill did. I gave to him. I'm like, dude, what do you need? Let's let's talk, let's collaborate. And and I'm watching him just take off with what he's doing. He's got his own company he's teaching he's gonna be a big dog one day but he's he i i he's doing it the right way he's he's ground level working his way up you know he's not diving it he's just he's he's getting he's putting the reps in let's put it that way But the way I was able to help him was because of Bill helping me, giving to me. So it was just very impactful in my career, to be quite honest And going to FDIC the next year, I was doing another class. I was doing leadership through training and the crucial role of the fire service instructor, right? And first time I was doing the class, really good class. It was just a lot of energy, it was great, right?

Steve Shaw: And I didn't notice till like halfway through, but he's in the class. Corley: Right. Steve Shaw: I'm doing them like, hey, I know that guy. And it was also the year just right after Bobby Halton died, right? So, you know, before the class ended, Bill stands up and he goes, Steve, I gotta go. I gotta go set up the ceremony for Halton. So I gotta leave. I'm like, that's okay, man. Thanks for coming by. He goes, Steve, you knocked it out of the park. It knocked it out of the port. And if anybody was there, they probably saw this. I literally broke down in tears. I had to like like recompile myself before getting back onto things. But it was just like full circle, you know. So but going back to the the the the the overhead doors, the the garage stuff, the the saws, you know, it was I I It started with failure, it started with learning, and you know, having mentors around me, people that supported me, it just it It just led to a beautiful thing. And now, going further, once now on the tactical side, when we talk about forcible entry and whatnot, So, you know, little things. And I don't want to go into debates with this, you know, between TP cuts and other cuts. You know, if we were to divide just the two garage doors. like overhead doors let's say steel slot overhead doors you find at commercial structures versus garage doors let's say on residences or maybe some commercial structures like sectional type doors. You know, in South Florida, you gotta tackle those sectional doors a different way. So and I could I can draw these out and everything. In fact, you know what? Hold on. Can you see me okay?

Corley: Yeah, this is up to Sam if he's if you're messing with Sam. Steve Shaw: So okay, I think this might work. Okay. So yeah, this might work. So on the sectional doors that we have in in South Florida, overhead roll-up doors. You know what I was talking to Oh, it'll come to me in a second. Anyway, I'll get back to that in a second. So sectional doors in our area. Most other parts of the country, your sectional doors, they're nothing. They're a piece of metal. can chop them down easily. oh the guy that you had on your last podcast, Mitch. Corley: Yes, yes. Steve Shaw: So so funny story. I saw a video of him that he posted up posted online about him taking a garage door and you use his mall with it. You've probably seen it. Now years ago when I saw that for like 0. 2 seconds I saw him wailing on that door and I'm like, what the hell is that guy doing? Because I come from a different area. Speaker 4: You can't do that with the door. Steve Shaw: If we have the the doors will laugh at you where he comes from from. And I thought for like 0. 2 seconds, what does the guy do? And then I realized, oh, this guy's really good. He knows his territory. He knows his first due. He knows how those doors are connected. He's hitting the points that are gonna knock that thing off. Wow, this guy's dialed in. So I felt bad that I felt that way in the beginning. So I called him. He probably doesn't even remember this, but I called him, I found his number. I'm like, hey man, my name is Steve From South Florida, he's like, hey, you go, I'm like, I gotta apologize. Like, why? Because I go, because for like 0. 2 seconds, I thought you were an idiot, and in reality, I'm the idiot. I'm sorry. He's like, okay. So that was

Corley: So thanks for my soap. Steve Shaw: Thanks. So, but the bottom line is when you have these sectional doors. In in South Florida, the thing about it is you don't know what's on the other side of them. It's very deceiving, especially the residential ones that are hurricane rated. There's horizontal reinforcements, there's styles that go up and down for additional reinforcements Some have additional like faux wood on the front of them. They're they're monsters, man. They're monsters. And if you come at them with like your traditional teepee cut, the door typically is gonna laugh at you. And again, I just want our guys to look good. I want us to look good. You'll see a lot of us in the South Florida area stop teaching the TP cut, especially in those sectional doors, to go with more box frame cuts. And I'm going to tell you right now, behind the doors, a lot of times the skin itself is just held on by those, the the some of the reinforcing agents, but they're just holding on. In other words There's nothing holding them together. So a lot of times what we're teaching these days, and I'll send you the video of this later, if you just drop two vertical cuts like this, like 12 inches apart right from the side. This piece right here and this piece right here, there's nothing holding on to them. So they just drop. They just fall, even if it's reinforced in the back. And the reason I say that is traditionally if you're doing a triangle in the middle You're cutting through a lot more material because of all the stuff that's back there. And you might be able to fit the nozzle in there to get a knockdown of the fire. Cool, I guess. But if you have two people working, And this Sawyer drops two verticals here and then starts working on the cut right here going across the nozzle then.

Speaker 4: Yeah. Steve Shaw: And start hitting the fire totally working a with and again. This person's working on the road, this person's working on the road, and they're not working against each other And if they take that top cut and three inches above or below is the sweet spot between that seam right there and they cut that across while that guy's knocking down the fire, you can open the door, and that's one of the most efficient ways we found to just take some of these more reinforced doors. Corley: Big reinforced doors. We we don't have those here. Ours are like delivering cans, you know. Steve Shaw: It goes back to it goes back to, you know, all firefighting is local. Right. Firefighting is local. You know, you know what you know, you know what your territory is, and that's the important of pre-planning and zone familiarization and all that jazz. Corley: But anyway, that's what you get on the scrap, man. Some top level absolutely I love it, brother. Love it family and the fire rescue. Steve Shaw: Oh yeah, so like I mentioned before, I always start with family. my brother's, I think, listening right now, Rusty. He's working for Miami Dade and you know I I was I'll I'll start with this my my father first got me into the fire service when I was 18. he came to me and he goes hey Steve we're gonna go join the Coral Springs volunteer fire department and I'm like no we're not I'm too busy we're not doing that that's that's goofy I got too much to do And he just started yelling at me. And long story short, we we did. And I'm so glad that he gave me that nudge. I'll call it a nudge. It wasn't a nudge. It was a kick in the rear end, but he gave me that nudge. And I'm so thankful for that because here I am 29 years later and I love what I do. But my father, interesting story. 45 years old, he went to the fire academy, EMT school, and paramedic school at the same time I did. So off and the story he tells me, because he was working for the city of Miami in the admin side next to the city manager's office. The story, the way he tells the story is he did all the school, the city manager was going to offer him a job as a firefighter.

Steve Shaw: And then his boss was like, listen Stay here, I'll give you Fridays off on a company car. Is that good? He goes, yeah, okay. So we did all that school for nothing. But he did it just to do it. And I I think about that. I'm like I don't know if I could do all that. Corley: Right, right. No doubt about it, man. Steve Shaw: So I have a lot of respect for him doing all that. And then my brother into the fire service, my brother three cousins are in the fire service so one works for Palm Beach County one works for sunrise and one works for Margate and it's just nice to have the whole family in in the service you know so oh brother I I I absolutely love it Corley: And I and and like you touched on a lot of different things, but two things that absolutely resonate with me is A, this job will if you allow it, this job will replace what's most important to you And that is family. That's one of those things that's that's part of the never-ending fight against complacency is just recognizing don't let this job replace what is most important to you you family 100% training training eighth firehouse 46 mike salzano danny morin and yourself as lieutenants three different shifts And three very strong personalities from what I can tell. but it worked well, you say.

Steve Shaw: Well, like I said, man, I just reflecting and I I I always go back to that firehouse. We were there for three years together. Mike's on B shift, Danny's on a A shift and I was in C shift and we had this just tremendous tremendous firehouse we're busy as all hell fought a decent amount of fires very tight-knit crew and as I'm again as I was retiring I was looking back going why did it work so so well like what what worked you know and the things that I could recall were we we verbalized it we we told people how much we were fun we're having how how love how we love going to work. We were verbal about it. We we put it out there like wow we love coming to work. And people heard that in those went around. We just they just knew that we were tight. but the other thing is we we trained all the time. We trained all the time and that training it it it transcended the content of what was being taught it brought us together it it it allowed us to to sweat together and work together and learn each other's strengths and weaknesses and just brought together a team man and i i'm always just grateful for that you know i'm always grateful for how that worked i mean yet at some point where at the time we had an engine of two medical rescue trucks out of our station And those medical rescues got beat up. They got beat up, right? But, you know, they still were involved. Like if the engine got a car fire, the rescues would jump it with us. And that was great because they would get their gear on, get some reps in, put their SCPA on, get the nozzle, put out some fire. So they got a little fun while they're running the medical calls as well. So just It was just a well oiled machine for those three years. And I'm just happy to have had my own station, happy to have worked with those guys. We just it was just one of those good memories as you look back on, man. No how why did this work? Because of those things, you know, just the we were vocal about it. We trained all the time. We talked a lot together.

Steve Shaw: It was just an amazing time, I guess. Corley: And and and I love one of the things you said, I don't know how many times you said it there, but I'll go back and look at the record. I'll look at the tape and figure it out. But you said training. Training, training, training. You all said you made a decent amount of fire. And that I I I believe fire I I say this almost facetiously, but I mean it also there's a lot of truth to it. Fire fixes everything and a fire. You know what I'm saying? Fire just really cures morale on so many levels. But there is a there is the the Fires are down, you know, not not that fire fatalities aren't up and and and there's all sorts of issues and everything like that. Tons to talk about there. But with fires being down, especially like in the suburban fire department or what I like to call the majority of the American Fire Service, because most people aren't lucky or blessed enough, depending on how you look at it, to work in Job Town. You know what I'm saying? But you said there, and I want to pull on that thread, how important is training? And your mindset towards training, towards keeping a strong culture, a strong morale, esprit de corps, whatever, whatever. Anyway, run with it, but you know what I'm getting at.

Steve Shaw: So I'll keep it simple. And and so when I when I first came to that station, the first day we all sat down together, and one of the comments I made to the crew was, all right guys, by the way, we're gonna train every day. And they looked at me like I had an eggplant growing out of my forehead They're like, what? Don't you don't you you know where we're working, right? I'm like, yep, I do. And we're gonna train every day. And for the vast majority of the days out there, we trained every day. But again, that training brought us together. I mean, every time we got an acquired structure, we're out there. We're doing stuff. We're breaking things, crawling around floors, pulling hose lines, breaking windows, going to roofs the whole night. But I guess the point is you're right. When a call comes in like a fire, those kind of things you we can't control. They come in when they come in. Corley: Right, right. Steve Shaw: With training, we control that. We set the tone. We determine how much we want to train. So in terms of the events, those calls, those fires, can't control them, but when they happen, they do create that shared experience. But you can create shared experiences through training. It's all up to you. It's all how you want to do it. It's all how the intensity, the number, the type, all that. But if you do that right, you're creating it. If the fires are up here, just just shy of that is a really good training dichotomy, a really good training program, a really good attitude towards training. It's right there with it. It's just underneath it.

Corley: Boom. Oh, dude, I love it. I love it. Oh hold on, I gotta write down 0916. That's my time. And put a star by it. Training. I gotta mark it down because I I've been listening and having so much fun. I have written down no timestamps. So I'm counting on the vigilantes to get me my timestamps. and and and the thing I love about that is you said you walked in there and told them that, and they looked at you like you had an eggplank. growing out of your head. I love that. and and there's so many that would that would shy away from that because they just want to be, I don't want to say light because everybody wants to be like that's not a but you you know it's There is a like I I what I'm getting at is I bet you if you ask the people that worked there during those three years that they would Mike, Danny, and the and the cruise, members of the cruise, they probably look at it backwards with nostalgia and fondness. If I was guessing, man. Steve Shaw: I I won't brag. I in fact I won't speak for them, but well kind of. I had a couple of other drivers, the the the firefighters who became drivers It strangely around the same time. I was talking to them one day. This is years after we were at the station. And both of them at the same time were like, you know what, I have to thank you. I'm like, for what? Like all that training we did. I'm like, really? And they're like, well, not really. I mean, we we did not like training all that, but it made me a better driver and both of them had said that and I just was like then you know what it was worth it just that's just one of the comments and sure sure and my if you ask Mike and the crew and Dan I'm sure they would tell you the same thing and and that's what it's about. Just you know it's the right thing to do. Yeah, it's hard at the time. Yes, you're gonna sweat. Yes, you're gonna be uncomfortable, but it's gonna be worth it. It's gonna be worth it. And that's it, I I will, and I'm glad I pushed. Let's put it that way that way because those memories were just something I'm I'm just hold with me through the rest of my life.

Corley: I love it. all right. readers are leaders. Rereading. I love the fact that you say rereading. But I'm gonna get I'm gonna I'm gonna transition and move towards the book or books. This is one of my absolute favorite questions I ask on the scrap. I love to read If if I pan the the the camera around my my my studio, my office, whatever you want to call it, it it's like near hoarder conditions with the piles of books that I plan to read. so anyway, I love to read. I love hearing about books. So I always love to ask this question of the guests. What book or books do you think firefighters should be reading? Steve Shaw: So I have some up here that I I I always go to. I'm a I'm a extreme ownership fan. I I think that for me that's just the one of the go-tos. I will tell you, I I read that book and I I didn't misinterpret it, but I took it too far. Like I was always taking ownership, always taking ownership And then one day one of my chiefs, Bob Basic, actually called me out on it. He's like, Steve, you got to stop doing that. I'm like, what do you mean? I'm taking ownership. He goes, Steve, you're doing it so much. It's like, we know you're going to do it. You got to hold your people accountable now. And it was just it was another conversation, but I was a wake-up call because that's that's part of it. Anyway, I'm not gonna ruin the book for anybody, but that's one of the ones I always go to I like Marcus Aurelius Meditations. Meditations. I look back at these books. Legitimate old school. I look at the ones like kind of you there's a there's a lot of like little notes and stuff in it. I know it was good, right? Right. So I I always go back to Marcus Aurelius. That's one you can read over and over again. Meditations, it's the stoicism and whatnot. Maxwell, I'm good with, I love Maxwell. And Stephen Covey, the seven ha the seven habits is a good one. right now on my reading list to buy. let me look up Amazon real quick because I haven't bought it because I I can't I my wife is getting really upset that I buy all these books, right?

Steve Shaw: I'm ordering ohes from Joe Joseph Pfeiffer from 9-11. Okay and another book made to stick, why some ideas survive another's death Made to stick. Yeah, I haven't I looked it up and like, yeah, it looks like if we're when we're presenting, what makes those items stick? Like why would they remember it? Right, right, right. That's what I'm ordering next. I'm gonna put it on my list. in the last well actually yeah, yeah. So in the last two books I read were this is a funny funny title, but In a Pit with a Lion on a Snowy Day. Corley: No, that that's John Spear actually suggested that book when he was on. And I yeah, absolutely I have it and love it. Steve Shaw: The timing of that from what I'm doing here is is appropriate. Corley: Very appropriate. Nice. What was the other one? You said two, the last two. Steve Shaw: No, that was it. Corley: Oh, okay, okay. They want to cut you off. Beautiful. so that takes us to the five questions for firefighters. This is a thing we do on every scrap, basically Forever. We're on the third version of them now. We're probably coming close to the end of the third version. It might be time to come up with the next, next, next five questions. But we're currently on version 3. 3. There are no right or wrong answers. They are just your opinions. And I pass out the points. It's completely arbitrary. They're given out by me with the help of the audience. So my first is are you ready for the five questions for firefighters, Chief Shaw?

Steve Shaw: Send it Corley: Number one, what is the skill that has carried you through your fire service career? Steve Shaw: So in one word, perspective. i've always at least and i'm not trying to blow my skirt up or anything i've always been able to maintain a positive perspective with everything that that comes down the pipe. A buddy of mine that works in Fort Lauderdale, Garrett Pingle, he, this is years ago, we were talking, we were working together in training, and he was going through a rough patch. You know, just a variety of things were happening. And I went to him one day and I'm like, hey man, is everything all right? What are you gonna do? And he's like, Steve, how I respond to this will define me. And I have never been able to get that out of my head. You know, how you respond to something defines you. But on the other side of that is, you know, looking at things and going, okay, what's the positive here? You know, and I think that I've I think that I've been able to do that okay. I don't win all I don't win all the time, but for the most part, I I I'd like to think I'm one of the happiest people in the fire service I got 29 years in, I'm 47 years old, and I come to work just ready to rock and roll. I love this job. I love this job. And No matter what those so I've always and the guys that may be able to quote these that I've I I know I know I've said them enough because the guys would quote them to me when I was in training. I always walk around, they're like, hey, how are you doing? I'm like man The sun shines on the training bureau 24-7. That's why I'm always wearing long sleeves. I would say it over and over again. They would repeat it back. And then when I got the EMS, Like, hey, how's it going over there? Like, man, every day's an adventure. Every day's an adventure. And they would keep saying that. And they would keep repeating things like everything's unicorns and rainbows. But I I mean it. I'm not I'm not just fluffing anybody. I'm not I'm not bullcrapping anybody I love this job. I love the challenges. Everything is an opportunity.

Steve Shaw: Every angry person is an opportunity to make a relationship. Everything you do is a chance to learn and grow. And I just think that's kept me sane through through these through these years. I I think. Corley: I love it. And again, I like the fact that like Angel Rosario says he really is the most positive man in the fire service. True story. So he back it's being backed up is what I'm saying. So absolutely I'll give Max points for positivity, perspective. Would you say you're just an eternal optimist? Steve Shaw: Yes 100%. Maybe to a fault. Maybe to a fault. And I had to I think what when I get home of to ask my wife about that to see if that's you know accurate or not. But I just yeah, I just I can't not see the positives that come with whatever comes on the And I think that just keeps me sane. I love it. Like for example, for example, I used to work as a nurse part-time when I was working at 46 at my firehouse, and I was working there full-time nights when I was working at 46 for a short time. Right. And the way I was able to maintain that sanity was as I'm looking at patients, I'm thinking, okay, what am I learning from this? What am I what experience am I getting? What what and that that's that literally kept me sane for a short time. So I guess it works.

Corley: I love it, brother. I have one thing I can definitely be is more positive. So I I do I'm envious. So max points on number one. Easy max points. And I don't know if anybody's ever said perspective positivity and eternal optimism. So that's pretty that's pretty powerful. Number two, one of my favorite questions of all time, but it's Job Town, it's time. You are in route and responding. You got to think of the scene from backdraft when he's slapping that cassette into that tape deck and McCaffrey's trying to jump on the rig. But what song are you playing while you're in route? To Job Town. All right. Steve Shaw: So I'm just going to start with a backstory. When I was 18, and I won't say who I was riding with, the people that I was riding with at 18 is a volunteer when we would go to Starbucks or or or Barn Barnes and Noble to study for paramedic school. Every time we would get a call, the guy had a tape deck and he put it in the tape that the it was the theme for backdrap and we would play that on every call. It was so goofy It was so goofy. But I love it. Anyway, but this is gonna be another weird, this is gonna be another weird response. And just go with me on this. Okay. Have you ever seen the movie Last of the Mohicans? Oh yeah. Okay.

Corley: I love the soundtrack. I love the soundtrack. Steve Shaw: You know where I'm going with this. You know where I'm going with this. Remember at the end where there's that massive that battle scene Yeah, when Uncas is fighting magua and then the chingak runs up there and they're they're just kicking the the living Jeep crap out of each other, right? The the song that's playing with that is called Promontory It's the it's a fiddle it's the fiddle tune. And it if you listen to the tune just on its own, it's like, okay, that's a nice tune. It's pretty, you know, whatever. When you match it, and you've seen the movie, when you match it with that fight scene It just it's just powerful. Every broken bone, every splash of blood, every stab, it just makes it like, wow, holy crap. And there's emotion to it. Every time I hear that song, I don't hear the song. I I remember the the that that visual that the the energy and the the the battle and I'm like that's that's it that's what I would play promotory yeah I it and that it's goofy but that's that's where my mind goes I don't know

Corley: I love no, I always don't at Max points for last of the Mohican soundtrack reference. I didn't think anybody listened to that except I love the one with the running the And it again is the fiddle and the and the drums and they're running through the river and the woods. But i'm not i couldn't spout off the name of it i just you know always but max points number two and what there's also it's now gonna be put in the spotify playlist of the scrap suggested songs for jobtown. Steve Shaw: Oh man, someone's gonna be listening going, you know, baba for whom the bell tolls. Corley: Yeah, yeah. Who's playing a fiddle? Number three, what is your favorite fire service tradition? Steve Shaw: So It in general, and this isn't my answer, but in general, I just like to see, again, going back to training, I love to see when after you get done with training it deployed in the field. I'd love to see that. Anything that's done in the field when you when you train so hard on something, whether it's force plunger, pulling a line, cutting a hole, when you see it out there, it's like, oh man. That's that's why we do this. But for me, it's pizza after the first fire. It's it's I I go back to 46 and one of my best memories is, and I'm proud of this, everybody that was out there All my firefighters, my driver, I was with them on at least one first in fire. all of them and I I I hold that close and dear to my heart. but I love being with rookies and brand new guys when they get that first fire and then they we make them buy pizza. I there's just something special about that. You know, I even now I've got a guy that I used to work with, Terry. he was with me in EMS for a while and he's amazing, just an amazing guy. I had him on his first day and we were training like crazy. I told him, I go, hey, we're getting a fire tonight. We're getting a fire tonight. night and he's like yeah whatever we got a fire with a grab that night and it he remembers that to this day and he always tells me And we I made we were it was like two in the morning, we're all still stuck from dinner.

Steve Shaw: I'm like, dude, I I don't I don't want you to buy pizza, okay? I I don't want you to, but you have to, okay? It's not me. It's not me. You just have to do it. Corley: I love it, brother. And easy max points, especially yeah, no, without a doubt. which takes us to you got three for three on max points. You're crushing it And I expected it. But on the clock, okay, you get you get on the clock. We had to put this one on the clock because well there's peep it's it's not a fair question, first of all. And then people would do honorable mentions and it would just go on. We had 15-minute answers at times. So you're on the clock, you get one minute, two. put your four people on your Mount Rushmore of the fire service and go. Steve Shaw: All right. So I'm going to start with Gustin. I'm going to go to Bobby Halton. And I'll explain this because I'm on time. I'll explain afterwards briefly. Mike Nugent. from BSO Fire Rescue here in Broward County. Speaker 4: Okay. Steve Shaw: I'll explain why in a second. And then and then my dad. My dad wasn't a firefighter for long, but that story I told you about him just doing all that work at 45 years old and and just to do it and just getting me involved. I just How do you not how do you not I still consider him for that brief moment a firefighter and always I'll hold him in high regards from that. But you know I I told you about Gustin and what he what he meant to me and what he's done for me and I always will pay him back for that. Halton you know, gave me the opportunity through fire engineering. By the way, funny story. was turned down okay right now i was already doing podcasts and i was already writing articles okay and i thought this is the this is perfect right it was turned down like ah son of a bitch So I see Halton on a podcast just before we were going on. And it's me and him and somebody else. And Halton goes, hey Steve, I'm like, hey there, Chief. How you doing? He goes, hey, I I read your proposal. I'm like, yeah. He goes, yeah, you suck at writing proposals.

Steve Shaw: There you go. So but that that blunt honesty, that that ability to be Oh, just just who he was and not ashamed, unapologetic, being unapologetic about his beliefs and and but having those tough conversations. You know, it was him it was him that gave me the go to do the perspectives on leadership podcast. do fire engineering and I always just just thank him for that. But we've had some we had some good conversations right near the end before he passed. And you know everybody's got their different memories of him but those are mine and that those are strong. So Oh, but Mike Nugent, just want to throw this out there real quick. Everybody that's listening in the South Florida area knows Mike Nugent. Okay. When I first started 18 years old in the fire department in Coral Springs, a volunteer. I I had this goofy long hair, big ponytail. I look, I look stupid, right? And he would always call me hop sing, right? Never forgot about that. but he told me he taught me how to tie my first set of knots. and just was a mentor through a long portion of my career. When I went to surfside, when I was going to surfside, he got caught wind of it and he called me up. And he just started yelling. He's like, Steve, wear your effing mask. Wear your mask. You need to wear your mask. This is because Mike went to 9-11 as part of the USAR team. And you know, like a lot of people, you know People had a lot of medical issues after that. Okay. So he remembers that. And he was just yelling, going, you wear your mask, you wear your mask. And he was yelling, but he was doing it like from love, from a good place. And Just he's meant a lot to me. And I think that even taking this transition over here, talking to him, getting mentorship from him. But like I said, anybody from the South World area, when you see when you see that name, they're like, yeah, I got it. So and then and then my dad, like I talked about. So those those are the names.

Corley: I love it, brother. It's a beautiful, beautiful Mount Rushmore. I love when they mix the the personal, the the local with the the big names that everyone Everybody knows, and I it really is. It really is a beautiful easy max points on number four. Four for four, which takes us to the question that will never change. It's the question that's been on every scrap since we started asking the question. There is heavy fire, there is searchable space. Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or be the first in on VES? Steve Shaw: That's an easy one. It's always the nozzle, of course. That's where I was born and bred. That's what I've always done. Ironically though, on my engine, I found myself doing a lot of truck stuff. Like I was went to the roof a bunch of times. I've done forceful entry, search and rescue. And I remember being really good at VES because we trained on it so much So when I saw when I thought about this question, I'm my part of me was like, well, I'm I'm got I've got VES down. If I had to do it, I've never done it before, but if I had to, I would know exactly how to do it. So my thought was maybe I'm needed to do that when it comes to the play but by default you know there's always that love for the hose there's always that love for being the first in pulling that first line and and like i said before as goes the first line so goes the fire you do it right you set the tone and things stay usually stay good going forward Yeah.

Corley: Right on, brother. And there's no wrong answers. And that's what I like to hear is the reason why. And that officially makes it five for five max points. And it officially puts scrap number two seventy-three in the books. My brother, Steve Shaw, thank you so much for spending your evening with and you had a busy evening tonight, too. I know this. A lot of people didn't know this. You came straight from like a city council meeting. Yeah, town council. Make this happen. Yeah So thank you so much for spending your evening with us. If someone wants to get a hold of you, ask you more questions, reach out to you for Saw Tips, how do they go about doing that? Steve Shaw: LinkedIn is probably the best thing. If they go LinkedIn and put my name in there, I'll pop up. they can go through their my email address is my full name so it's steven with the ph letter f shaw at me. Corley: com there you go housekeeping Be a vigilante. If you're not a vigilante, why not? It's five bucks a month, and it's the coolest part is you get to be a part of the after party where Steve has agreed to come in there. He's coming to the after party and we're gonna go in there and we're gonna roast him for his performance on the scrap today and that's what the vigilantes do each and every week. Sam is posting the link as we speak for the for the after party. So hey If you want to be part, go to patreon. com slash the vigilante's or go to firehousevigilance. com. It's all there. coming up next week It is the doubleheader, Andy Starnes, Insight Fire Training. He's coming on. He's going to be talking about leadership, family, and of course, thermal imaging. But that's day one. That's Monday, I believe. I but I'm pretty sure I'm right on my dates. I'll have to double anyway. Let me just let me just verify 25th. The 25th is Andy Starnes. The 26th, the very next day, is going to be Basil Ibrahim coming on to talk about his Mayday survey project, firefighter Mayday survey. So don't miss it next week. Put a reminder in your smartphone, Andy Starnes. Basil Ebraham, back to back, doubleheader, and then Thanksgiving. So we have a lot to give thanks for.

Corley: Put your reminders in your phones. The scrap is roaring along the tracks. Do not miss it. Enough jabbering from me. We're going to the after party. Thank you once again, Steve Shaw, for sharing your evening with us. Steve Shaw: Thank you, sir. This has been amazing. Thank you so much, man. I can't think I can't thank you enough. This has been awesome. Corley: I hate you amazing guests, amazing stories, amazing answers. And most of all, an amazing audience. Scrap you you make the scrap magical each and every week. I could never thank you enough for tuning in and asking questions and setting me and the guest up for success with your amazing questions. The scrap would not exist without you. So thank you for tuning in live. I love you all Remember, months don't scrap. I hope the tone stays silent unless it is burning. Everybody, stay safe out there.