Weekly Scrap #303 - Jonathan Brumley, moving big lines

Corley: Firemanship is fast approaching. It is almost here. If you were there last year, you know how amazing it was. If you've been involved with firemanship. You know how amazing it is. And so it is coming up in July 14th through the 18th. Man, get registered. If you're not, why not? It's in Aurora right outside of Chicago. It's an amazing, amazing experience. Here's the deal. I am teaching two days of workshop, the same workshop two days in a row on Thursday and Friday. But right now Registration is extremely low for those two workshops. It is the Culture Forge. It is my the class that that me and Sam and Rob Fisher have been Building, working on, putting on. It's an amazing class. If you've been a part of it, then you know all about the teams, the mascots, the spaghetti, the the the value building, the Lego. You know, you know what it's about And it's a it's the class I always wanted to attend. And that's the class that I built. And it's an amazing, it's an amazing time. But the problem is I don't have to pull the plug on it. If people don't register for it. So that being said, go and register for the Culture Forge so that it can happen. If not, I get it. Life is life. Go register. I'll see you at Firemanship Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance. It is weekly scrap number 303. My guest tonight is Jonathan Brumley. He is a lieutenant with the Denver Fire Department, who began his fire service career in 2009 and has served as both career and volunteer. Jonathan has instructed Lectures, hands-on formats, at fire conferences nationally, and has published works in several trade magazines. He has been married for sixteen years to his beautiful wife Molly and has three awesome daughters. Also, one handful of a German short-haired pointer named Tucker. Welcome back to the scrap. One of the originals. One of the originals. Back to the scrap, my brother. Jonathan Brumley for episode number 303.

Jonathan Brumley: Hello there. Thank you so much for the intro. Love it. Corley: And I have to tell everybody What an odyssey it was to get you back on the show. Not because of you, but because of me. Absolutely. I messed up the scheduling with Tina and Jonathan. So Tina was last week. I double booked him. So I called Jonathan. He was gracious enough to move it to today, this Monday. And then I was like, oh, I can move all the scraps to Tuesday. And so I moved him to Tuesday, at which point I messed up and had to move him back to tonight. So this is officially. The final scrap that won't be on Tuesday. Allegedly. So, all that being said, is there anything I missed in the intro? Anything you would like to add? Jonathan Brumley: Yeah, I think the only thing that you missed was I'm your first guest that gets to say congratulations on your retirement, Corley. Corley: You you are the first and So that that being the only thing that I'd add, congratulations. Jonathan Brumley: That's a huge deal. We're all excited for you Corley: Thank you, brother. And it's still not real. It still feels like I'm on a four-day and but you know, like it's it's not sunk in that it's real yet. That I'm not going back. So thank you for that very much. Let's talk about the sponsors. We'll get those out of the way so we can get to the beautiful questions. And get the scrap going. You spoke, snap tight listened, built with you in mind, the newly launched American-made Supreme 2 is designed to perform at low and high pressures With Supreme 2, you can count on improved packing and kink resistance, making it a game changer for all municipal firefighting needs and price points. Now offering guaranteed shipping, 28-day lead times. Visit snaptighose. com to learn more and find a distributor near you. Affordable Drill Towers on a mission to bring you cost-effective and versatile training props like the Affordable Bellout Prop, which allows you to practice window bailouts. ladder bailouts and ladder high point rescues. They also make the affordable standpipe prop, which you can roll into the classroom for standpipe theory and then roll it into the parking lot and pump realistic flows and pressures. They also make the affordable drill tower. Of their namesake, it comes in several configuration and standard with the standpipe system.

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Jonathan Brumley: Love it. Corley: I love this topic. I as always I always reach out to the guests and say, hey, what do you want to talk about? And of course, you're known for moving big lines and making it look easy. So we're going to talk about moving big lines. Don't get me wrong. But I love this topic that you sent, which was instructing You've been teaching and instructing and traveling for over a decade. And I just want to, and we've been having a discussion, the vigilantes have been having a good discussion about what makes a good instructor, what's tips for You know, people say if I want to instruct, what's some good tips? So let's just start off with lessons learned from a decade of instructing. Jonathan Brumley: Yeah. So it's it's pretty incredible to even say that it's been that long now. And something that I really didn't even realize until you sent me the topic list. and I'm like, man, what what should we talk about? And I realized at this point, man, it's it's been even longer than I realized. And obviously Over time, you learn what works well, you learn what doesn't work. And it's it's kind of fun to see how that adapts over time. And so I I just kind of took some notes. on some quick hitter things, on just things that I've recognized. And I'll start out with this. Probably first and foremost, it's it's sad to say this as an instructor, but Sometimes it's easy to lose focus that classes are all about students. They've got to be this student focus. Like the priority number one above all things, take care of the students. You could speak about instructor egos within that conversation, but I mean we don't really have to too much there. Recognize that These classes aren't about you. It's it's totally about how do we pass along the skills that the little bit of information that we've been given over time and make it student focused. I think two two different cadres that that I've seen do this so well are probably Brothers in Battle and and Nozzle Forward where I mean they're still there at 9 30, 10 o'clock at night some nights, you know, and totally just immersed in we're not done until students are done. And I've I've tried to adapt some of what I do based on, you know, the the mentors that I've had along the way to to help encourage that as well and and just recognize that whatever agenda an instructor may put forward, please make sure that we're not moving at our pace, but at the pace of of the people who have taken the time to come and join us you know on a weekend or a weeknight, whatever class might be.

Jonathan Brumley: With that being said, You gotta work at a pace that matches the abilities of those students. So anytime that I I put together a class, I obviously kind of come up with a a an agenda ahead of time. I usually send that out to the people that I brought on brought along with me. These are the things that I want to cover. But the reality is, is If we can't move past some of the foundational skills early on, then there's no point in getting deeper into that agenda. We need to focus on those foundational things and then you know, as time goes on, maybe you'd be able to build on those a little bit. But what I've noticed over time is is I'll build these agendas that You know, we might not be able to cover in like twelve hours just so that we have these contingency plans. Speaker 4: Like if we end up with some rock star Jonathan Brumley: Like we start flying through things, so be it. We've got a plan. We're ready to go for that. But it I'm okay with If we only get, you know, through the first, you know, three or four things that I had on the agenda, it's okay that we didn't get to the total of eight because it it matched the skills and abilities of of each of the students that that we've got going on. With that being said, you can't expect students to perform in skills like in a high performance level if you're not taking the time to cover it. And I've seen it happen several times where you'll have an instructor just start shaking their head, they'll get frustrated, they'll get mad, and oftentimes you know, if you go to the student, you're like, what's going on here? What this is the first time I've ever even seen this done, you know, so it's it's hard to you know, take a step back sometimes and do that. But if you're not taking the time to teach the skill, people may not be good at it. And so having a level head through that whole process is something that I wish I saw out of more instructors, if I'm being completely honest.

Corley: Now do you find yourself when you're building out a class and and or building out a hot track, do you find yourself prioritizing the basics I don't want to say debate but but but prioritizing the most important stuff first so that if you don't get to the stuff does it make sense what I'm asking? Jonathan Brumley: Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely it makes sense That's what you're asking. And my answer is yes. And if if you've ever taken one of my classes, I start out my classes pretty much the same way every single time, especially when it comes to engine ops flowing. I might spend an hour to an hour and a half just with static flowing, like no movement whatsoever. We'll cover a couple of different grips. and I I jokingly call it my morning yoga. I mean it gives people the opportunity to get you know down on their knees where they may not have done that in the past, you know, couple of weeks. and you know just really get stretched out but the thing is is I'm trying to build in those foundational pieces Because especially when it comes to hose handling, if we can't do that from a static position, there's no reason why we need to ever move on to something like flowing or moving. or trying to, you know, build these grandiose scenarios where I'm expecting people to make multiple turns go up vertical stretching, all of these things. Like if we can't hold on to a hose line from the very beginning, like we have to solidify that early on before we can do all of these these other things. So absolutely I'm gonna front load it and make sure that we get those pieces out of the way before we dive into the rest of of what a class would be

Corley: So let me ask you this, which is which is off topic but on topic, because this comes up over and over on social media, and I'm sure you've followed some threads at times, but someone will invariably post a Video of someone flowing with no gear, no pack, you know, and it's obviously that they're they're getting their mechanics down, their body mechanics down. Well, I say obviously But and then of course the comment section will go crazy with, oh yeah, do that in gear, do that when there's furniture, do that when it's not a parking lot. how do you address that? mentality of starting basically so that you can advance. yeah, go ahead. Jonathan Brumley: I mean if we're expecting somebody to last for ten hours through a class. There has to be some longevity built into that. And for some of those foundational pieces where we're not in any kind of ideal age where we're just learning a particular skill I don't see any reason why somebody has to be, you know, fully bunked up SCBA on mask on their face, sucking down air. There's no reason for that whatsoever. I'm a huge believer. in crawl walk run myself included in that morning yoga section if you will I'm gonna be standing there most of the time in you know a a t-shirt my bunker pants a helmet gloves we'll call it good there. And then as time goes on, as we're moving into structures, as we're introducing some of those elements of of stress like limited visibility, heat, whatever it might be, then obviously the the PPE follows suit with that, but for these these foundational things early on I I have no problem whatsoever with building up to the progression of finishing the day. with all of the PPE, with all of the stress, all of the additional realism that we can add in the training environment.

Corley: Right, right. on no excellent answer steve moutch great minds think alike because he asked it in youtube it's kind of the same thing i just asked so perfect Jeremy Humphrey has the first question coming at you from the audience, and he wants to know how do you effectively navigate the challenging landscape of a classroom filled with diverse array of skill levels? Jonathan Brumley: you can kind of you can kind of gauge pretty quickly what skill levels are even from that static position that I'm talking about. And so, you know, for those individuals where you might see that a lish a little more instruction might be needed, there's two ways that I'll typically handle that. One of them is is I'm gonna get down on the same level with that student and I'm gonna make sure that we dial in those mechanics. and that person might be on a hand line flowing for like five minutes, six minutes, not at a time, but like total over the course of those those first few minutes in class. Where somebody else, you know, they might hop on for 30 seconds, I'll check it out and like, oh yeah, good to go. no additional instruction needed. So that's one way is just making sure that those people that we're seeing struggling early on will get more time on that hand line early on in class. The other way that I've done it as well is kind of grouping people as I kind of see those things happen where if we're seeing a group of people who are just incredibly dialed in a skill, we'll make sure that they're getting paired up together. and we're gonna increase intensity in some way that we might not do for other groups.

Speaker 4: Okay. Jonathan Brumley: That especially comes into play towards the end of the day in scenario-based training where Let's say I might be covering something like a vertical stretch, right? For a group that might be struggling, they might go to floor three, make fire attack. more of a hit and move style of fire attack. and then we'll discuss, you know, afterwards. For a group that's absolutely dialed we might send them to floor five expect them to flow and move we'll throw a victim on the floor and throw in you know some additional elements that we think that they can handle so especially as the day goes on and as you add elements of realism to it. I think you can really dial it up for those who are able to take it and then kind of bring things back to a more basic level if if somebody is just struggling to keep pace. Corley: Right. No, that's beautiful, man. And it ties back to your first point, which was know your students, just and it's it's student focused. Absolutely Love it. Jonathan Brumley: So I I guess the next thing I'd say is like you're never gonna have enough time to teach this skill. That's just inevitable. It we we could plan out, you know, three days in a row of hands-on and it'll still seem like Man, I just didn't have enough time to cover that. And one thing that Lieutenant Ray McCormick pointed out to me was we were teaching flowing and moving in FDIC in a hands-on format. He's like, you got 15 minutes to teach it. skill and I'm like, are you kidding me? I I I this is something that I wouldn't do like in the course of like two days, be able to get all this information. and the first group came through and he's like and I apologized. I'm like, I'm sorry guys, this is gonna be really time compressing. He's like, hey, pause. Like, don't apologize. You weren't the one who came up with this time constraint You just gotta be better at being more concise and giving the little pieces of instruction that they're gonna need. And it really forces you to think about what's important in your pieces of instruction. And if we're wasting time apologizing That's time that they didn't get learning. And so I that was something that was really cool and eye-opening to me, is that it really helped me be more concise in what I was going to say to students in that time-compressed environment.

Corley: Yeah, learning from Uncle Ray without a doubt. especially the whole don't waste time apologizing. You don't have that much time. No, no, no, apologize. Jonathan Brumley: You're just wasting everybody's time by doing it Corley: No, that is awesome. Anything that surprised you over the decade of of instruction? What am I trying to say? just a something that consistently comes up over and over and you're like, oh again, oh again, or anything like that. Surprises or things that you're constantly having to address. Jonathan Brumley: I think one of the biggest things that I have to address over and over is backup firefighters. More and more I think it's it's improving and I'll I'll be completely honest, like nozzle forward is is hands down like the like gold standard when it comes to you know teaching hose handling as a nozzle firefighter and especially as a backup as well. but over and over again I see just like poor technique when it comes to how people are moving hose lines behind the nozzle where we're just not spacing our firefighters out to move hose lines efficiently. People still really like to stack up right behind the nozzle. They lift hose line up off of the ground, which is just incredibly destructive for the person who is actually trying to operate that nozzle. It's making them work harder. and I think that that's what I have to spend the most time on in in my instruction is really dialing in the technique of the the backup I think most of us get a lot of opportunities if we're willing to take it to to have some nozzle time in the training environment. Obviously we all want more in the the live fire and the the actual firefighting. but we don't spend enough time as a backup firefighter really dialing in the the technique of of doing that skill.

Corley: Right on. Right on. on Bubba Tisher coming at you. He says, when training with big lines, do you start with the big line, then go to small, or small and go to big? Jonathan Brumley: So it it's really gonna be dependent on whoever is organizing the class, like what they want me to cover. But given the opportunity, I am gonna do big line every single time. So in that in those first foundational pieces that I'm trying to lay for people, I will pretty much always put a big line on the ground, whether that's you know, two and a half, two and a quarter, something like that. And the reason for that is, is because it will reveal all of the flaws that a person has. very quickly where with instant three quarter you can muscle through it so much easier that people won't recognize the flaw in the technique. They'll just say, oh yeah, I'm I'm able to do this. There's no reason for me to to make any changes. But as soon as you add the big line element to it where they're getting more nozzle reaction, obviously flowing a significantly more gallonage out of the end of the line. those techniques really seem to expose themselves well. And that's why in the part of in how I progress. through teaching it. A lot of times, you know, I I don't give much instruction outside of, hey, this is the grip that we're gonna cover. Here are the finer points that you need to know. But I don't give any instruction in terms of like where I'm expecting people people to flow water to. And inevitably what happens is somebody will open the line, you know, 30 seconds to a minute. It pretty much just goes straight out in front of them. They'll shut it down and you know we'll move on to the next person. Well, that's why it takes me an hour and a half because I'm not gonna let it stop at that. We've got to move on to hey, let's do something as simple as I need you to flow all the way over 90 degrees to your left side I need you to flow all the way over 90 degrees to your right side get that line above us and by the end of it we anybody standing around this area should be absolutely soaking wet nobody should know where to stand because that nozzle is gonna get everywhere And it's incredible how uncomfortable people get just simply by saying, hey, I need you to flow all the way over to your left side, and then immediately I need you to flow all the way over to your right side.

Jonathan Brumley: We haven't introduced any type of movement into it whatsoever in terms of forward, back, any of those things. And that's simply enough to get significant portion of people uncomfortable and they may not get that feeling if we're just doing that with inch and three-quarters. So that's why I love doing it. with two and a half. And probably my favorite thing to do is do like eight hours of instruction where we only give you a big line. And then right at the end of the day, we put an inch and three quarter in somebody's hands. And it's just like these light bulb moments where they're like, oh my gosh, like this thing is a garden hose. Why in the world was this ever something that I thought was difficult? Because people are just crushing it when it comes to those scenarios when you finally put that small line in their hand and they just wouldn't have that light bulb moment if we if we quickly introduced that inch and three quarter. Corley: No, I love it. I love it. absolutely great question, first of all, on whether you go big to small or small to big. Because I've heard both ways, but I love the fact, like you said, if you have the choice, you're going big the whole day.

Jonathan Brumley: Going big the whole day. Corley: And then and then the light bulb moment is just that much sweeter. Jonathan Brumley: Yep. Corley: I love it. Get your questions in. Keep throwing them in here. I'm moving on. And of course, anything you bring up on training, if you have more to cover, please, please, please feel free to do so. Is there anything you absolutely generically speaking, of course, not specifically. Anything that just makes you roll your eyes each time you hear it, or you're like, oh no, not again, that kind of thing? Jonathan Brumley: no, I'm I'm I'm pretty generally okay with whatever and we'll we'll sort out whatever questions, you know. I think I think the one thing that really makes me roll my eyes at times is people incorrectly applying a clamp slide. For those who aren't familiar with it, it's where you would put the line underneath your leg and then try to scoot forward, which by all means do it, but try to apply it correctly where where people really struggle is not understanding that it's it's very much meant to be a flow and move type thing, but a significant number of people are still trying to keep the line open. And then the line gets to be a little ridiculous where sometimes they're flowing in front of them, they're bringing it back and the line starts flowing back over their head. and and so that's the one where I'm like Let's take a second and make sure that you understand the context of that particular move. But other than that, I think most people are are pretty out.

Corley: Right, right on. Right on. And you're pretty laid back. You're a pretty laid back instructor. Jonathan Brumley: Yeah, I I hope that nobody has ever heard me yell at him. Yeah. Corley: Chuck H coming at you says training is huge, no doubt, but how much do you believe having the right equipment matters? For example, the right hose and nozzle combination. Jonathan Brumley: I think it plays a huge role. I I absolutely do And that was one of those things early on in my journey. And that's kind of what got me starting as an instructor, was recognizing well, I'll I'll take a step back. That's what started me going to classes. was recognizing that I was struggling and that I sucked at a lot of skills. And so I started taking a lot of classes and I would watch videos online of these guys just doing so many incredible things with Hoseline that I knew I wasn't capable of. And I would I was wondering, I'm like, so so where's this magic trick? Like what what's going on behind the scenes that I don't know about. And the more that you dive into it, the more you recognize that what it comes down to is creating attack packages that are successful and that work both in combination with the nozzle and the hose line that's good for the end user. And it's not so much just, hey, this nozzle is fantastic, because if you throw that on a a garbage piece of hose, no matter how good that nozzle is, it's not gonna do well same with with the hose package if you've got you know a gold standard hose but you throw a garbage nozzle on the end of it that's not gonna be successful either so so absolutely we have to talk about and make sure that we're putting something in the hands of our firefighters that's going to be successful both in the midst of fire attack and on the drill ground and I think that we do a poor job sometimes and it it just comes down to looking at a price tag or what something says that it's gonna do in a magazine as opposed to actually really putting it through paces before we make those purchases So absolutely pair hose and nozzles correctly, put good attack packages in their hand, and you'll be amazed at what your firefighters will start being able to do with it.

Corley: No, that's that's and and it's and it's crazy because I just just this week I w I was seeing people making comments on social media of course, you know, that said like, well you can't do that with with our we could never how do they what are you pumping that at 30 psi you know and those kind of those kind of statements because and the crazy part is those are the kind of statements I used to make when I used to look at the YouTube videos I'd be like We can't do that with ours, you know. And and we had like a hundred pounds nozzle reaction on, you know, flowing 225, and and it was just we couldn't do the things that they were doing in those videos. But we did it was our ignorance of the package. Jonathan Brumley: So I I posted a video on an Instagram page that got quite a few views not long ago of something that we call the Zoolander drill. And basically all it is Is it's going through various grip transitions and why it's called the Zoolander drill is because Derek Zoolander's downfall is he wasn't an ambient turn.

Corley: Ambi-turner, right, right. Jonathan Brumley: Right. And so we want to be ambi-turners, you know, capable of flowing 90 left, 90 right all the way above, sometimes behind. And I posted a video of me doing that, going through various grip transitions at the same time. and it was done with two and a half. We pedoed it probably at about forty-five PSI at the tip. so it was slightly under pumped. If if I had a pump operator who was pumping that like a cross lay for inch and three quarter, absolutely that video is not happening in what you would have seen seen is that line being blown right out of my hands. So that that is part of the magic trick is making sure that we're putting together quality attack packages and that we're Pumping them correctly. Corley: Having a good operator who knows what he's giving you. Absolutely. And yeah, no, absolutely. Taylor Shepard, great question. He says, Lieutenant, what's your stance on two inch versus two and a quarter versus two and a half. I like the smile already. Jonathan Brumley: Oh man. I have an opinion and people in Ohio are gonna hate me for it, but I don't see a whole lot of reason for two inch, especially with the advent of the two and a quarter. I love the two and a quarter, especially in the interior environment. It's phenomenal. But it does come down to what are we asking our hose lines to do? And I kind of You can dive down a lot of rabbit holes, right, with with this particular topic. But really what it comes down to is what is our staffing? What are we asking this hose line to do? Are we asking this to be a jack of all trades thing or do we have enough do we have enough room on our apparatus to put multiple sizes of hose lines on this thing? because if let's just say I'm a three-man engine company in suburbia where I have no type of standpipe exposure My recommendation all day long is going to be two and a quarter. But as soon as we put that particular attack package off of a standpipe that was, you know, installed in 1976, that might be a loser again. As soon as we ask it to flow something like a portable monitor, a RAM or a Blitzfire, something like that, that's going to be a loser also.

Jonathan Brumley: So really it comes down to what all are we asking this hose line to do for us and then match the hose line size for what we're actually trying to do on the fire ground. So I I do have some opinions but it it really comes down to to Are we asking us to do multiple operations or is this just a a one-trick pony for us? Corley: Right on. So your opinion and your a magic wand question, just an opinion in the corner. Magic wand question. Brumley picks picks his his His big line, what what are you going with and the reasons why? Jonathan Brumley: two and a quarter with inch and an eighth. it's just it works so phenomenally in the interior environment. flowing a s very significant amount of water and it is so capable of making turns and it's just overall significantly lighter than two and a half It's it's really undeniable and you're getting the same flows out of it. So yeah. Corley: Getting up around 240, 240 gallons per minute without even overpumping it all or even higher. Jonathan Brumley: I would say somewhere around 250 to 260. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. Nice. Corley: Nice. No, beautiful question. Beautiful answer. Thank you, Taylor. Let's talk about host stretches in the multifamily environment.

Jonathan Brumley: Yeah Corley: So let's get to the top. As if we're not in your wheelhouse. Let's get in your wheelhouse. Jonathan Brumley: It is in my wheelhouse. So for those who don't know, I work in downtown Denver. vertical stretching is what we're all about, is really what it comes down to. because there are so many larger buildings and granted not all of them are high-rise, but significant amount of our host stretches, if not the majority of our host stretches will end up being vertical. And so definitely something that that I love doing. Multifamily obviously it that is a very very broad topic. That could be everything from you know, a townhouse to a triplex to, you know, a three-story pitch roof and more of a complex style apartment all the way up to now mid-rise and high rise. So to say that it's like one size fits all isn't the case at all. And this is absolutely my favorite fire to go to is a multifamily fire and probably a lot of that comes from from working on Houston's southwest side. You've got apparatus there going to, you know, roughly 200 working fires a year. And you know, somebody can correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I'd say 65 to 70% of the work. that they do is in multifamilies. So that's where this love really came from. But really what is is so exciting about the multifamily environment is is if you were to lose a structure or a couple of structures in suburbia where let's say 10 families get displaced. Right. That would literally be burning down, you know, half of a block of single family dwellings, right? And that's gonna be like a once in a, you know hundred years fire for most jurisdictions, if not ever. Right. But to displace ten families in the multifamily environment, that could be as simple as a tactical error by a first do apparatus. So I think that's what's so exciting about it is the the stakes are so great. And the other beautiful thing is is so many people get worked on those fires. that you know you have multiple handlines in play you have trucks cutting holes you have multiple companies performing searches all at the same time and a lot of times we're not talking about making access on the alpha side, right? Because we have s exposures on Alpha Bravo, Charlie, Delta, they are all over this place.

Jonathan Brumley: And so it it's it's just really cool as an officer and as a firefighter to really start diving into the nuts and bolts of those tactical decisions that have to be made and are really time-compressed. decision making process. So so I love that about it. What I will say is most important, especially for the engine company in these environments, is recon, recon, recon. You have to get out and and check these things out. We're doing things like checking fire panels. We're going to maps inside of these buildings to help guide us and direct us. We're listening, we're looking, we're trying to figure out what is what types of building systems are are really obvious to us to help us out. in this whole playbook that we're about to to unfold here. Corley: And when you're saying recon, you're you're you're meaning way before the call comes. out. Jonathan Brumley: I mean I'm I'm thinking way before the call but I'm also thinking in those first few seconds on okay I want to be clear. Yeah yeah I it's a little bit of both. Hopefully we're familiar enough with our jurisdictions that we are getting out and we're checking out these buildings ahead of time. but we can't just hop off of a rig when the place is actually on fire and just start stretching blind. So that recon process has to st take place before we just start pulling hose lines off of our apparatus. Otherwise we will find ourselves up a creek pretty quick and most often we're gonna be stretching way too short. in that environment as well. So for for those individuals showing up first due, that officer is going to have to make some really key decisions in those first couple of minutes. where the firefighters obviously will be doing their own type of size up, but there is a little bit of a delay there, I feel like, for the firefighters where It takes some tactical discipline to just pause and let those pieces come into view a little bit more before we just start stretching blindly. like we might do at a single family dwelling. It's super easy to to pull the parking brake on a single family and just stretch, you know, a 200-foot cross lay and we know that that's gonna work. That's just not the case for the majority of multifamilies.

Jonathan Brumley: So Take take time to recon and I will say this like recon isn't a 360 because on some of these buildings a 360 is gonna take four or five minutes if you're walking around that thing. So recon entails way more than expecting just a 360 to to do the work for you Factors that I'm looking for is like what kind of access do we have to the footprint of these buildings? Some of them we can drive all the way around, some of them we can't. That's gonna impact the type of stretch that I'm gonna do. It's also going to impact where we're going to position engines so that ladders can get up. Stairwell locations are huge. They help us really break down the building because that's going to be how that we access buildings. So from an engine company perspective, something that I'm trying to get better at and trying to get better at instilling and the people not only that I work with but also that I instruct is please estimate the stretch before we just pull hose lines off of this. and so Steve Robertson in Columbus Division of Fire was probably the first person that that I heard lay out this formula, but looking at the length of the building plus the width of the building plus that back and then we're adding in that elevation element Well, with a multifamily building, let's say it might it especially with a mid-rise, it might have a footprint of like six hundred feet by three hundred feet I can't pull a hose line to fit the needs of the entire building all at once because we could end up with a thousand foot stretch very easily.

Corley: You haven't got to to to the height yet Jonathan Brumley: And the set so with that I'm looking for my stairwells because anytime I see a stairwell, that's where I can really start to section off this building. If there's two stairwells in the building, I know that I can cut the building in half. If I have four stairwells, I can quarter this thing. Because I know that one of them is going to ultimately end up being closer. Obviously the caveat to that is, is if I can't drive the apparatus to it Then I've got to go to a different plan. So I think that's why I enjoy it so much is because it it's not always this linear. thought process. I I obviously have plays in mind ahead of time that I'm looking to call, but I always need to have plan B, C, D in the back pocket ready to go for for meeting the needs of each of these building types One thing that I will say is I think that as I travel more and more, I'm seeing a lot of fire engines that are only laid out for stretches going about 200 feet. And I think that that's going to be a loser in a lot of these environments. Need to be better about at least practicing and hopefully specing apparatus that is capable of getting a lot of hose off very quickly and loading it in a way that really limited manpower is capable of doing it because it's it's one thing to build a line that's let's say six hundred feet out of a a static bed, but if one or two people is who is gonna be pulling it off of the back of the engine, it better be laid out in a way that 400 feet comes off really easily for these types of stretches And so that's something that I think that we could do better about in the American Fire Service is speccing apparatus for these longer stretches that all of us have in our environments now. It's just something that we're not good at practicing And kind of for me in a lot of cases my plan A is stretching off of the hose bed. it's just proven to be significantly faster than trying to do something like standpipe operations, split stretches, trying to, you know, go vertical and then either do coupling drop or rope stretches over and over again, stretching directly off of the rig seems to be the fastest route to many of these fires, but we don't have hose lines that are ready to go for that.

Jonathan Brumley: And then kind of going back to a conversation we had a few minutes ago about you know nozzle pressure attack packages A lot of departments are still using nozzles with a nozzle pressure requiring 100 pounds of pressure. And if we put that into the conversation of a longer stretch compared to a nozzle even with 75 psi, we're talking about losing a hundred feet of hose off of that to keep an acceptable pump discharge pressure. Now using a nozzle with a 50 psi nozzle pressure, we would be losing 200 feet in our stretch with a 100 psi compared to a 50 psi nozzle. So attack packages matter and how we load it is gonna matter as well. Corley: in this no i love it i love the i love the discussion and the factors involved that people don't think about you know what i'm saying it's just yeah it's it's great to bring it to the forefront to discuss Are you ready for more questions or you want to cover more factors? Because you got both you got you got questions coming out the out the ears and you got factors to deliver. So I don't I want to keep the balance good. Some of it's going back in time.

Jonathan Brumley: Like I said, we're here for the students Corley: Way to keep it on point. Kyle Piverall coming at you. And this is a follow-up to my question on the big line. He wants to know what's your perfect inch and three-quarter and nozzle setup Jonathan Brumley: I think that there are some pretty phenomenal attack packages out there right now for inch and three-quarter lines. I d I don't think that it's limited to any particular particular manufacturer. I think every manufacturer now has a a phenomenal inch and three quarter line. So it it I'd be hard pressed to say you know one particular particular manufacturer. But things that I'm looking for is its ability to be loaded onto somebody's shoulder because whether we're going vertical or we're going horizontal. we're asking people to to move hose lines. So how it shoulders it does matter in in my book. it's kink resistance obviously matters and then its ability to resist Things like heat and abrasion, all of that matters as well. So please include all of those factors in your decision making. It goes way beyond just, hey, this one's $700. It's probably better than the one That's $300 per link. So put it put it through its paces before you make that decision. Now in terms of nozzles, man, I I am partial to anything with a 50 PSI nozzle. pressure. All right. And it's not so much a a combination nozzle versus a smooth bore as it is there's just not a lot of return investment that I'm seeing from using a nozzle that has a nozzle pressure anything above 50 psi. So I'm good with either as long as as long as we're le using that low pressure system.

Corley: Nice. Jonathan Brumley: It is Tucker, yeah. He decided to get get up and say hey. Corley: That's awesome. I love big dogs. I don't know how big Tucker is, but I love big dogs. Jonathan Brumley: Yeah, he's a blast. Corley: Can you give us Matt Berkins wants to know, Matty B, can you give us a rundown? I'm not sure which Matty B, but Matty B. can you give us a rundown of the conversation you would have with the brand new firefighter assigned to you? What would you tell them in case you go to a fire that first night together? Jonathan Brumley: Ooh. Tough question. I would tell them that they they better beat me in masking up. And if they can't do that, we're gonna practice that a lot. So I you know that's something that I that I've spent a lot of time on is just making sure that PPE is not something that I have to worry about. You know, in in those few moments when we first arrive on scene, like that is the last thing that I want to be worrying about is how how difficult it is to put my gloves on or how difficult it is to get my mask on. That should be taken care of, you know, long before we ever arrive at that scene. So I know academies are getting better at that. and making sure that people are great at masking up, getting it done with gloves on. Ah man, dog just pulled the whole cord. So that that would be with what I would start. Like that's as basic as it gets, is making sure that people is dialed. And then beyond that, I'm going to tell somebody that I'm expecting them to flow a lot of water. And that they do not need to worry about me telling them that that line has to shut off because we flowed too much. I want to make sure that at any point that they feel like they're they've encountered heat, that they've encountered a scenario that needs water, that they have no fear of doing So that is absolutely something that would come up right from the get-go. The other thing I want to say is like the whole reason that we're at this fire is to pull victims out. And so we should never lose sight of our tactics being aggressive and being victim focused because that is the only reason that a fire department exists is to make sure that we are doing our job for the community.

Jonathan Brumley: Nice, nice. Corley: Backup position. You talk brought it up earlier that it was something that's always kind of fallen behind or you noticed that people don't drill on it. What's some of your most effective drills for practicing the backup position? Jonathan Brumley: you gotta get into tight spaces. So my favorite drill to absolutely do is building out some type of scenario where you're in a center hallway environment where you have multiple doors sometimes offset from one another so maybe you have two on the left side one on the right side and my favorite thing to do is to just simply, you know, start by going, you know, 15 feet down a hallway, make a left turn, right? And then we the next rep we'd go into the first doorway. Let's say we're only expecting somebody to go eight feet into a left turn, back them out, then go down the hallway, and then make another left turn 15 feet down the hallway. and then once we're dialed on that, then we go left and we go right. so you have to put yourself in that compressed environment because if all we're doing this in is just like in a wide open parking lot, you're never gonna get the experience of what it takes. and how dynamic it is is that backup position because obviously as soon as a firefighter is to cross over a threshold into a new room things like our ability to communicate back and forth, our ability to understand what that nozzle is doing inside of the next room, it almost goes away. So obviously if If we want to be 10 to 15 feet away from our nozzle firefighter, but the building dictates that that spacing has to be something different, that's where you recognize as a backup firefighter that our that things have to change and that it's very dynamic. You're up and down that line. and I I I think that that's probably the best way that you can learn how to use economy of motion where if that line has to back out, that doesn't necessarily mean that we have to physically take our body ten feet down the line just to come ten feet feet back up when that line has to go forward. Maybe it's just simply shuffling hose 10 feet back at that point and staying in that same position so that you're recognizing how can I be most efficient with my my own body movement so that you know you can last through the entire duration of fire attack.

Corley: I love it. Love it. That was from Jeremy Humphrey. That was his question, which I did I did not read his name. So thank you Jeremy for a great question. Cody Brooks wants to know, Lieutenant, when on shift, out in district, do you ever dry stetch dry stretch in apartment complexes for reps? I'm looking to see if it upsets the residents and occupied apartments or do you do it in new construction? What's your any any experience? Jonathan Brumley: Yeah, absolutely. And actually that was on our topic list is like get out in your territories and train. And I have not had a single apartment manager or leasing office lady tell me no when I explain when we go into their buildings what we're about to do. obviously they're there's some things that we need to explain ahead of time. but I I've I've had a much better luck telling somebody what we're about to do as opposed to asking, hey, can we do this? so you know I'm I might go to you know the leasing office or whoever is on site, sometimes it's a property manager and just say, hey, we're your local firehouse. We would love to be able to stretch inside of your building because this is going to be one of those places that's going to be a little more challenging for us if something were to happen. we're not gonna flow water, but we're gonna do some hose stretches and we'll do our best to stay out of your way. And like I said, I've I've got a 100% r success rate at this point when I just kinda explain hey we're not here to break anything we're not going to flow any water we're going to stay out of your way but we're going to use your building in a a live training environment and it's a lot of fun too because then that's when a lot of the residents start, you know, peeking their heads out and saying, hey, what are you doing? Oh, thank goodness you're here. Like I love that you're training. That's where the kids in the neighborhood get involved in host stretches. And it's just a great time for everybody involved. So please, please do not be scared to go out and train in your district. Because that's where you'll get that realism and you'll you'll get the variety that you need because you're just not gonna get that if all you do is stay at your firehouse.

Jonathan Brumley: And I hate to say it, but a lot of the training facilities that our fire departments have are even worse training environments than our firehouses They don't have things like furniture, it's wide open layouts, they don't mimic the buildings that we're actually operating in. Our firehouses do a better job of that. But we can't get the full gamut of the the types of stretches that we would do if we don't go out and we explore them in our territory So you know, if I need to get better at stretching at a townhouse, I gotta go to townhouses. If I need to get better at something like an indent stairway where it only accesses let's say six apartments and then we have to go to a different stairway to access another six like you just cannot mimic that if you're not getting out into your territories and you know parking garages are okay to do things like coupling drops or rope stretches, but again, like there's not an objective Right. to finish with in a parking garage. You can only get that in the buildings that are out there and we just don't have the opportunities. to do it in acquireds like so many of us want to. So we have to resort to using occupied buildings But again, as long as you're being courteous, as long as you're being respectful, you're taking care of any damages, which I mean there shouldn't be any with, you know, just stretching simply stretching dry hoses, people are more than willing to let you be in their in their buildings. Nice, nice.

Corley: No, and that's phenomenal. And that was the the topic I was going to bring up next, which is leave the firehouse and train in the territories that you work. Which is the topic. No, and it's beautiful. cause there isn't. so many of our training facilities, like you said, they're just not Structured to mimic what we really face. They're structured to be reused. Correct. More than anything else. Reset and reused Jonathan Brumley: Yeah, and so many times they're worried about, you know, what's gonna break or what's gonna mold or whatever it is, you know. We we need those those realistic environments and we're just not getting them very often Corley: Beautiful. Short-term goals versus lifelong dreams. I loved this topic, but I have no idea where it's. I mean, it's self-explanatory, but I'm anxious to hear your interpretation. Jonathan Brumley: Yeah, so one thing that that I found is like I I had a lot of dreams in my life and I think most of us would would say that we've got dreams But where I struggle is is starting the process to achieve that dream. I think that it's really easy to, you know, throw out some lofty goal and we should have things that motivate us along the way but in my mind, I think that short-term goals are greater than long-term dreams. And why? Because it's so much easier to achieve them. You know? and that is so incredibly motivating. Getting little wins along the way, it's incredible how far that will take you motivation-wise. it's that whole thing of like you have to, you know, eat an elephant one bite at a time If you're just staring at an elephant and that's your lifelong dream, like you may never take your first bite because it looks so overwhelming. Sure. But if your goal is, is like, I want to touch that elephant, right? We can achieve that right away. and so I I'm a huge fan of of figuring out what I can do in the short term And if I can get short-term wins over and over and over again, I'm going to be so much further in my progression than if I was just looking at some lofty goal at the end. end of it. So I hope that people are are are motivating themselves on a daily basis and not getting bogged down in what they hope for you know 10 20 years from now because you'd be missing out on a lot of things that you could accomplish along the way.

Jonathan Brumley: I've read a lot of books, you know, and goals if you were to read like What what does it take to make a good goal? One of the acronyms that I hear over and over is to have SMART goals. Right. So specific, measurable, achievable, relevant, time bound. That's something that also box me down. And it'll just be as simple as, you know what, I you know what, I wanna stretch, you know 700 feet of hose at work today. You know, it it it doesn't have to be some like grandiose written down thing in order to get some of the those wins. and so please like motivate yourself on a daily basis with short term goals. Corley: No, I wanna I want to dig in just a little bit. And then you can always say hey I not personal, but like When you say you have dreams and then goals, like what were some dreams that that are so big and lofty? And if you won't if you want to like pass, that's fine. But and then give me specific examples. You just said stretching 700 feet. So I that's kind of a specific example. But go ahead.

Jonathan Brumley: It is a specific example, but I we'll throw out a another example of like this long term dream that I have head. and one of those long term dreams was getting to teach it FDIC. So if somebody looks at that goal, they're like, oh shoot, well like what does it take to do that? I gotta build a class. What does it take to build a class? maybe it's gonna take like you know, eighty slides on a PowerPoint and I'm gonna have to do, you know, several years worth of of research and I'm gonna have to present this you know, ten times or whatever number you put in your head ahead of time in order to be dialed enough to to teach at a venue like that. that can be really overwhelming. Well that's the elephant, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's can be very overwhelming. Well, let's start with, hey, can I get five slides knocked out today over a presentation that I may or may not use? Right? and if I can just knock out five today and then maybe ten by the end of the week, like that is progress You know, and so those are the types of of things that I would would look to because if your goal was just hey someday I want to teach at FDIC and that doesn't happen, like motivation is deflated immediately. But you know, if if I'm able to get 10 slides this week and then I've got you know 50 by the end of the month, what else can I do with that presentation? You know, maybe I'm teaching my own fire department. Maybe I'm, you know, doing something a little bit more locally. And you may find that you get so much more pleasure out of that experience than you ever would have of what this lofty dream was at the end of the road.

Corley: I love it, man. I love the specificity. I think that's the right word. Of breaking it down, man. That's beautiful, brother. So thank you. Thank you for that. So we have a thing. We do. First of all, book or books. I want to start with book or books. Book or books that you think I see a I see a bookshelf behind you there. But what books do you think firefighters should be reading? Jonathan Brumley: So one that was a big game changer for me, this was probably 12 years ago that I read it now, was the Firestream Management Handbook And r prior to reading that, I would look at a fog nozzle and think that it was the same as any other fog nozzle. And they get so specific in that book. Dave Fornell does an incredible job. of just like breaking down the tools of the trade. And that's that's pretty pretty awesome. And the reason that I bring it back up again is because he just released his second edition. Nice and so it's actually available again. So get out and buy the Second edition of the Fire Stream Management Handbook. Corley: By Fournell. By Dave Fournell.

Jonathan Brumley: Yep. The second one that I really love, and there's a couple of reasons for this. I like military reads. I love the University of Texas. And so the wisdom of the bullfrog, Admiral William McCraven, get out and check that one out. A lot of quick hitter lessons. you could read it a chapter at a time. You could skip excuse me, you could you could skip around all over that book and just read it, you know, chapter by chapter and you wouldn't lose any context. He's done a really good job of making that a super easy read. I know that you mentioned read old books. I'm going to throw out an old book at you. Pilgrim's Progress. Corley: Nice. Jonathan Brumley: by John Bunyan. It was written in the 1600s. that was one that a lot of us had on our reading list, you know, back in like sixth, seventh, eighth grade, something like that. I reread it a about a year ago, two years ago. and it was just one of those things that really just made me reflect on my own life and how I was operating on a daily basis. So That one was kind of a game changer for me, just helping me recenter my life, I would say. And then this last one is probably by an author that many people haven't heard of, but just has an incredible story. His name is Jamie Winship. He was a police officer in Washington, D. C. And just because of the track record of how amazing he was at being a police officer, he was actually recruited by the CIA. They came to him and said, you're gonna work for us. And he has now gone all over the world and he has infiltrated terrorist organizations and just won people over just through conversations and his book is called Living Fearless. so he it it's incredible hearing his story where he was not a military unit. He wouldn't go in with no weapons and he could completely changed the hearts of people around the world in conflict zones. So that one's pretty awesome as well.

Corley: Beautiful, beautiful. Man, what a what a c and you went all over you went to the sixteen hundreds to to non fire related to all the way down to street management. beautiful. I love it. So we have a thing we do. I don't I don't know. Did you was there five questions for firefighters the first time you're on, or was it just the one question back then? Jonathan Brumley: you know, I Corley: I haven't watched. Jonathan Brumley: I'd have to go back and go back and check out what I actually answered and what I didn't. Corley: Right on. Well that we have the five questions for firefighters. We are currently in version, I think we're on 3. 0. No, it's 4. 0. It is 4. 0 You think I rent a podcast and I can answer this, but there are no wrong answers. They are just your opinions, and the points are arbitrary. They're assigned by me with the help of the live audience. So Jonathan Brumley, are you ready for the five questions for firefighters? Let's do it. Number one, you're the proby once more. You have to cook the meal at the firehouse. What is your go-to meal? Jonathan Brumley: I'm gonna go foodie on this one, all right. So Dr. Pepper marinated carnitas tacos. I make a creamy habanero sauce, do rice, charo beans. I love Don Julio's tortilla chips, especially the spicier version of it, and I love making a smoked salsa where you put all the veggies on the smoker button before you put it together. So I'll give a shout out to Louisville, Texas. They were the first people to show me the smoke salsa.

Corley: Okay. No, you had me at tacos and then you went well beyond necessary and absolutely crushed it. Sam said There are in fact wrong answers, but that was not one of them. Absolutely max points for the Dr. Pepper marinated Carnitas tacos with smoked salsa. Did I get. The gist of it? Yep, you nailed it. Number two. It is job town. It is time. You're in route and responding. Think of the scene from Backdraft where he slaps the tape into that cassette deck. What song are you playing while in route? Jonathan Brumley: So this one's probably gonna lose me max points. this answer might surprise people who know me, but for people who really know me, it won't surprise you whatsoever. I'm gonna go with a hip-hop song. It's put on for my city by Young Jeezy. Corley: Put on for my city. Jonathan Brumley: I'm not ashamed to say that like I love trap music. And as I've gotten older, it's kind of like the old man who's like, get off of my yard. I struggle with some rap lyrics. But Like I there's nothing else that gets me more hype than hip hop. So yeah, young G. Corley: No, you'll get the hype. Greg White said, I can't award you any points for that answer. No, absolutely, it's gonna be added. There is a Spotify playlist, and your answer will be added to the list So it is in there. And Kyle Pivotrol said, yo, throwback max points.

Jonathan Brumley: I can't let RJ at Capital City be the lone hip hop guy. Corley: You gotta populate. I got, I love it there you go. Two for two, max points. I'll have to check it out and see if see what I think of your hype song. Number three, whose boots, past, present, or future, would you like to spend 24 hours in Jonathan Brumley: it's gotta be Captain Bob Morris with the FDNY. Like, who doesn't want to be the boss on Rescue One and the FDNY? I can't think of a better company to go do that with. the pedigree of people that he was around, the knowledge that's gotta be present in that place. I just cannot think of a a better environment to learn, to grow, to to be around people who just just want to be better at the job and then also be able to back that up with any number of calls at the end of the day. Corley: Yeah, no doubt. Absolutely max points, Bob Moores. without a doubt. And I loved seeing him accept as a speech and and tell his stories from the stage this year. Yeah. you are retired. Max points, by the way. One, two, three. You are retired. You are sitting on the beach enjoying my ties. What do you want to hear through the grapevine that the people used to work with, how do you want to hear that they describe you to the new hires?

Jonathan Brumley: man first and foremost, I want him to say that I love my father in heaven, that I loved my family and the crews that I work with, and that I answered the call. And I guess what I mean by answer the call, that could be, you know, that that when I was on scene, that I did what needed to be done, that I made good decisions. but beyond that, answered the call Like I I feel like I've been in a unique position now for a little while where man, it seems like at least once a week I get a phone call from Somebody all over the world, you know, at this point, just wanting to know, you know, how Denver does something or, you know, how I would handle a situation or what they need to do better. And I I do my absolute best to get back to all of those people just because I've been so blessed along the way and so many people have given me answers and I will always give every effort that I can to make sure that that I answered that call. Corley: You got lots of Mac ma Kyle Piverall said Max freaking points. Taylor Shepherd just said Maximum points, my brother in Christ. And Jay Collier also gave you max points. So across the board, four for four. You're crushing it, Mr. Brumley. So final question: There is heavy fire and searchable space Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on VES?

Jonathan Brumley: so I I've been so excited to answer this question for like years, and I didn't even know that I would ever be back on the scrap but I don't know what episode this was introduced in. Do you know what episode this was introduced in? Corley: I I would have to go back and do the research. Jonathan Brumley: I don't know. Let let's call it like two hundred and seventy five episodes Now you've asked people and I'm gonna preface it my answer with this. Like it's not at all because of how the question is answered or how it's worded, it's how it's been answered. I feel like over time VES has become this thing where like it's the only victim-focused answer that people are giving. And I feel like there needs to be a little bit of pushback here because I don't feel like that is Is anywhere near the truth, right? Somehow it started to become that if you choose the nozzle, it's like this selfish thing. But look at the firefighter rescue service the firefighter rescue service data like 70% of the victims that are pulled out of fires are along a pathway that a hose line is going to take inside of that inside of that building. Like I love those odds. 70%, that's amazing, right? VES is an incredible tactic. I've been involved in window-initiated searches, but just because I go inside of that window doesn't mean that I'm gonna pull somebody back out that window with me But what I do know is if I'm taking a nozzle into that fire, I'm putting the right volume of water on that fire and it I great things are gonna happen, right? Inside of that environment. And so once again, I like those odds. All right. so what am I gonna do? I'm gonna take that nozzle, I'm gonna take the water that's gonna come out of that thing, I'm gonna put it between the fire and any victims, and then I'm gonna thank God that I'm one of the you know know few people of seven billion on this planet that was ever able to do that.

Corley: Well dude, I love I love your answer. I love your breakdown of the answer. And no, I don't think you I love your breakdown of the question So absolutely love your answer. So max points five for five. Easy answer. and and it it's a great point you make is just because you get to do the VES, because a lot of people miss that when they answer the question. It's It's not victim presenting and and you're going it it's you have a chance to be on the hose line or a chance to do a VES operation. Jonathan Brumley: Yeah, suddenly somebody somebody does VES and they make a grab every time when they answer this question. And I'm like over and over again as an engine guy, I'm like, no, it's not a guarantee. But water crushes fire and that it is gonna create a better environment for everyone else in that place Corley: I won't be clear. I love your answer. I think it's a great answer. It's not my answer. I still do the VES, but I love your answer. so max points across the board. And that officially puts 300, the 303 Number 303 scrap in the books, Jonathan Brumley. First of all, I want to say thank you for spending your evening with us, the audience, on YouTube. And if someone wants to get a hold of you, what is the best way to do so?

Jonathan Brumley: I'm pretty easy to find on Facebook Messenger, so that's a good way to do it. email is just jonathan. brumley33 at Yahoo And then if you want to do a phone call, send me a text, 970-405-8963. Corley: Right on. Right on. and that's I'm surprised your your area code is nine seven zero. Where's that actually from? Jonathan Brumley: so nine seven zero is northern Colorado and thank you, Preston Lyons, for pointing out three oh three, because three oh three is the area code of Denver where I get to work. So it's incredible to be on scrap 303. Corley: Hey we plan these things. These things are actually planned. Not not a screw up of a of a of a scheduling conflict or anything involved Jonathan Brumley: Yeah. Corley: 305 is Miami. 305 is Miami and Miami 305's coming up in a couple weeks. Jonathan Brumley: Well, whenever we get to 970, hit me up again because that's where I live. Corley: Count on it. Count on it. I got one thing we do as I always ask the guests to give us a challenge for the audience. Something to challenge them between this scrap and the next scrap, which will be on Tuesday. But the next scrap, a week from Tuesday, I should say that, be clear. What's what challenge do you want to give them?

Jonathan Brumley: so we need to go out and we need to do a time drill. All right. some kind of basic fire ground task. You gotta put a stopwatch to it, right? Because that's how you truly understand, you know, how you're how well you're doing, right? And probably the best part of it is is is you can see that engine one is better than engine two and the stopwatch didn't lie about it, you know? Or, you know, ladder one is better than ladder two at throwing ladders, whatever drill it is that you choose. Definitely involve masking up into it, but don't let it just stop it masking up. Complete a long vertical stretch, you know, hook up to a standpipe. Lay hose down a hallway, throw ladders, pull a victim 50 feet, do some kind of time drill. Love it. Corley: Put it to a clock. Do a time drill. There's your challenge from Jonathan Brumley. And the last question I have for you is Someone you think that should be on the scrap or back on the scrap, because with that as many guests as we've had, it's hard to know all of them, but someone you think needs a scrap.

Jonathan Brumley: Yeah, so one thing that we didn't get to early on with the whole instructor thing is is inspire greatness and make sure that you're an advocate for the fire department in all ways, especially your own fire department. And so I preface my answer to this question with that. I am promoting my fire department with this answer through and through. We've got a guy on our job who's He's the most humble dude ever, so he wouldn't ever want his name called, but his name's Assistant Chief Dave Hagman. I'm gonna tell you his pedigree real quick. So he just got his PhD in performance psychology from Johns Hopkins University. He was a starting football player at West Point. He's a combat veteran. He's been an Olympic strength and conditioning coach. He's heavily involved in youth athletics, especially with his kids. He's presented a few times at places like the Boise Fire Symposium, but his name needs to be all over the United States. So Assistant Chief Dag Dave Hagman. Corley: I didn't want to interrupt you because you had a great hype reel for him. On August 5th of 2025, Assistant Chief Dave Hagman is coming on the scrap. Someone from Denver actually reached out and said, Hey, have you you and he just did a basically what you just said, just you gotta get this guy out. He'll never he'll never put it out there. And so I reached out, he said yes. So absolutely. Awesome suggestions. So I'm just letting you know you're way ahead of your time.

Jonathan Brumley: I am so excited to hear that. Corley: That's awesome. Now I when you said when you started saying it, I was like, I wonder if he's talking about the guy that the other person from Denver Anyway. So it's funny that you said that. Jonathan Brumley: So excited to hear that. I know what I'm doing August 5th. Corley: Sweet. And it's a Tuesday. It'll be a Tuesday. Okay, housekeeping. Go to patreon. com slash the Vigilantes. the Discord is up and running. The Discord is amazing. There's so much going on in there. It's hard to explain unless you're a part of it. It's very active. If you are looking for a place to connect to like-minded souls. Become a vigilante. One of the cool parts about being a vigilante is you get to go to the after party where we're gonna roast Jonathan Brumley And it's going to be amazing. That's the after party. Sam is posting the link as we speak. Coming up on the scrap next week, episode 304. It is Mark Davidson. Again, another one of the originals. Mark Davidson coming back on the scrap. Then for the 305, it is my brother from Another Mother, the one and only Rob Ramirez, Miami represent talking. So it's going to be exciting. every Scrap from this point forward. I mean it is gonna be on Tuesday night. I really do mean it this time. I'm not a liar. And that's the plan Enough jabbering. Let's get to the after party. Thank you once again, Jonathan Brumley, for being amazing. And Tucker. Jonathan and Tucker for both being amazing guests.

Jonathan Brumley: Yeah, it's been awesome. Thank you so much. Corley: Audience, every week I say it, every week I mean it. You make the scrap what it is. It would not exist without you. Thank you for tuning in live. I love you all. Remember, mutts don't scrap. I hope the tones stay silent unless it is burning. This job is not safe, so stay smart out there.