Weekly Scrap #247 - Michael Dozier, the Company Officer

Corley: Corley Moore coming at you to let you know about the vigilantes. Of course, everybody, I mean if you if you watch the scrap, if you listen to the scrap at all, you know about the vigilantes Vigilantes, but I want to be very clear and let everybody know we are moving to Patreon. The vigilantes are moving to Patreon. There's been so many people who said, hey, I don't do Facebook. I can't be a part of the vigilante is i'm not on facebook and i get it we get it so now we are moving to patreon it is independent of any of the social media platforms it is his own thing you can join us on patreon So what does that mean if you're already a vigilante? Man, go join Patreon. We will stop your payment. We will refund if you are on an annual subscription, we will refund what has remained. We will make it happen. We are going to take care of you and get you in. there it's already a beautiful platform so much going on in there these are the things if you're not a vigilante i'm just asking you why not go to the patreon it It is patreon. com slash the vigilantes. And you get access to the vigilante only swag shop the fire away live Q<unk>A's behind the scenes of the scrap you influence the scrap on where it's going to go member only exclusive live videos complete access to all the past archives, all the past forums, all the past Q<unk>A's, the 15% off vigilante code for the firehousevigilance. com store access to the after party, man. I mean that's every scrap. The after party. It's unbelievable. And of course, the VIP form where we talk to some of the best in the business one-on-one in a giant meeting where everybody has a voice. It's exciting. So if you're not a vigilante, go be one. If you are a vigilante, go sign up at patreon. com so that you can get it transferred over. It is gonna be it's gonna be a fun transfer, but we're making it happen. It's already been amazing today. Over I think over a hundred people today have already signed up and we just announced it this morning So go be a part vigilantes patreon. com slash the vigilantees or go to firehousevigilance. com and you can click the button there.

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Corley: Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance. It is weekly scrap, number 247. My guess this fine evening is Michael Dozier. He is a proud husband. Married for 15 years. He has two sons. One is 14. One is 19. He has 18 years on as a career firefighter with Hory County, where he is currently a captain. He is best known for his blog, The Company Officer. And that is the bulk of what our conversation is going to focus on this evening. He is an FDIC instructor. He has a master's degree. And we are going to enjoy diving down some rabbit holes. It is my absolute pleasure to welcome you to the scrap for episode number 247, my friend Michael Dozier. Michael Dozier: Yeah man, thank you. I appreciate honestly kind of humbling to get brought on. I've been listening to this thing for for years now. I don't know if I missed, I don't get I don't catch the live one too often, but I've I've got a long drive to work and it's one of my main main rotation podcasts. I appreciate it. Corley: I absolutely love hearing it. And I really do appreciate long drives to work because that really does give the scrap a lot of its audience. So is there anything I missed in the intro? Anything you would like to add?

Michael Dozier: No doubt. That was that was that was plenty Corley: Awesome, man. Audience, please get your questions primed and ready for Mike, Sam, and myself. Sam is scouring the YouTube comments looking for your questions. So post them so he can get them to me. And if you have questions on all things company, officer related, culture, firehouse, running it, keeping the morale up, all those things. how to avoid yeah all all the things that Michael loves to talk about please please please post them now we will talk about those beautiful sponsors The OG sponsor of the scrap, Keh's. You can check them out online at Kehos. com or follow them on Facebook. com And believe me, every time someone makes their rookie year on my shift, on my battalion, I buy an identifier safety thing to put on their face mask. It's a ritual. And I actually, because the brand we use at my department Identifier safety quit making them for a brief period of time, so I couldn't do it. And I thought no one would notice. And just recently a few guys graduated got the rookie year done and I didn't give them their tags. And When I found when I went to FDIC and talked to Matt there about identifier safety, he said, no, no, we're making them again. I'm like, really? Sweet. And I ordered them. It was a big deal. It was a big deal. It was pretty cool. So there we go. Beautiful sponsors are done. Now one thing I want to talk about, if you look down here on the scrap, there is a QR code that I put there, okay? That QR code will take you to the federal regulations for OSHA, the two in, two out, the new, they are revisiting that standard and they are republishing that standard. And this is one of the most important things to talk about. That's why I wanted to talk about it right here at the top of the scrap. And it'll probably be for the next few scraps until the deadline passes. Which if I'm not mistaken is June 21st. I'll double check that, but I believe it's June 21st, where you, the firefighters that are out there doing this job, can go and make a comment. An informed comment to make a difference on what the new regulation will look like moving forward This is one of the most important things in the fire service.

Corley: And that is why that link is down there. Click it. It's not easy. It's not like you can go and just type a comment on your phone. It is a process. You need to put in who you are, your rank. You need to read and reference the material that you're actually talking about. Make your comment matter. and make a difference for the next 20, 30, 40 years of the fire service. Man, it's so important. We're going to post links in the YouTube channel. Sam will post the links. You can scan that QR code. You can also Click the link that Sam will post in the chat. And also there's an article. The article was written by, I don't want to leave anybody out. Scott Thompson, Chris Thompson, Sean Duffy, Nick Ladine. And Bill Carey. And it's a phenomenal article explaining all the data, all of the data from FSRI, UL, Firefighter Rescue Survey, Project Mayday. data, not drama, all of it. They reference everything to give make you give you an informed look at why it matters. Okay? So go read the article Click the link. Don't be lazy. This is the biggest, this is the biggest challenge. Firefighters will love to say, I'm gonna do it tomorrow. I'm gonna do it next week. And then June 21st is gonna come and go. All right, I'll quit beating up that horse and I'll get to the guest.

Michael Dozier: Okay, thank you, Michael, for letting me hijack your strap. No problem. Corley: All right, let's get to it. Let's get right to it. Yeah, there we go, people. I'm gonna read you a few of the articles, which mainly are let's go listening in, yo, lfg. Watching from Trinity Fire Department from Michael Henderson, Spray 9 said LFG, Ram Dodge 3500 said let's go There's the link for the article. Check it out. Austin Gabe Hart said checking in for Springfield Township Fire LFG. Yes, absolutely. Coming at you. So let's start it off right. I'm going to kick it right into your wheelhouse and say firehouse culture and the company officers impact. You can take it whatever direction you want, but it'll be a nice segue into you talking about what you are good at talking about Michael Dozier: Yeah, man, I I I think that's what probably what I'm most passionate about right now is is culture in the firehouse. I think we got guys out there hitting home runs left and right on tactics and and and you know, truck work and engine work and and there's just honestly like kind of modern day legends out there that that you know are gonna be talked about decades from now about what they're teaching. You know, right now you can go take classes from 'em. You can read articles from them. You can chat with them on Facebook. You know, you can watch them do podcasts, watch them do the scrap and listen to them in podcasts and all that stuff. And You know, I think firehouse culture though is, and there's definitely some some studs out there talking about it, but it's something that kind of gets neglected sometimes and it's real easy to just look at you know on the fire ground performance to to completely get a judgmental of a fire department and that's definitely a major, major piece of the puzzle that's got to be there but I think, you know, life in the firehouse is something that that we don't chat about a a ton and it impacts the fire ground way more than than what we're probably willing to to say. And impacts mental health a ton. I I personally think more than what than than bad calls in the fire ground you know ever will or ever has. so it's it's a big thing I think that's gotta be hit on and and I I personally believe that the company officer is where it all starts with with culture and and life in the firehouse.

Michael Dozier: You know, you can get the rest of those pieces right. And if if the company officer is not on board and not doing things the right way, it falls apart pretty quickly. Or you know, your firemen that are doing things the right way, they're gonna go find a boss that's that's about the same life they are and they're they're not gonna be on your crew very long or or your department very long, especially when you're a smaller department and there's not, you know, two or three or ten or fifteen or twenty other firehouses they can jump to to find what they're looking for you're gonna run into retention issues and and everything else. And and a lot of times I think our company officers around the country are are left, you know, standing there looking in the mirror. blaming other people. Sure. Instead of taking responsibility for for their part of of of life in the firehouse Corley: Oh, I love it. I absolutely love it. And like someone says right here, someone said this the Cody Brooks said it the posts this guy puts up on Instagram are always fire. I love it. Talk about the posts you make, the inspirational posts, especially the one sentence type, you know, just hammer home the point posts you make.

Michael Dozier: Yeah You know, I'm sure with a lot of social media fire service pages and stuff, it realistically started early on as a place for me to vent and and and blow off steam and It it kind of was was a sort of therapy for me, I think, you know, because everybody's dealing with problems in their own fire departments. Everybody is, you know, no nowhere is perfect And it was a place where I could kind of put stuff out here. I started realizing that people people liked it. Or it was hitting home with them. I was constantly getting messages and things like that. as far as like the one-line stuff, man, I I you know I'm a I'm a simple-minded individual. I think everybody, you know, you know, keep it simple, stupid. Oh, that's that's me to a T. I don't like things that are complicated. I like it cut and dry to the point, direct, blunt. You know, and not to say that I'm I'm not worried about hurting feelings or anything like that because I I'm I'm not gonna take it that far. I I do and I think it's on the list to potentially talk about later. I mean I do care about care what people think. Right on I think it it matters that that people want to hear what you're saying because if they don't want to hear what you're saying, then you don't have any influence.

Corley: Well no, and and if you there there there's definitely that rabbit hole or or that that trail you can go down That is just, you know, just pissing everybody off and making noise and controversial and shock jock. And then you just become white noise Michael Dozier: Yeah, and I kind of went through that, you know, probably a decade ago. I kind of went through that with some social media stuff. Not a ton, nothing, nothing like this. you know, put some stuff out there and I really legitimately didn't care what anybody thought. Like that was in my mindset was I I don't care if this hurts their feelings. I'm gonna sleep just as good tonight as I did the night before I said it, you know and what I realized was that and and I'm not gonna be completely negative about that mindset because on on some level, I mean I don't think you should lose a ton of sleep over what people think. But If you're going to be in a fire department or any kind of organization and you want to influence the folks that are around you, if you think you're doing things the right way and you want people to do things the way that you're doing them. They're gonna have to like you at some point or at least not hate you because if they hate you, you could have all the answers. They're not gonna listen. They're not gonna hear them. All they're gonna see is is you know he's saying that we're, you know, pieces of crap They're not going to see that that you're that you're wanting what's best for them. They're not going to see that you just want what's best for an organization or for a citizen. All they're going to see is Hey, that that Mike Mike Dozier's an a-hole. And we we don't like we don't like anything he says.

Corley: He's super judgmental and and he thinks his shit don't stink. Right. Michael Dozier: Yeah, you know, so and and I that that kind of switch kind of flipped for me I don't know, five or six years ago, I I started realizing that if I was just a little bit nicer to people and if I was a little bit I I think I actually read it was in one of Jock Willis' books. He talked about it, the the art of being indirect and you know where you're still trying to get the same point across you were trying to get across when you were being really direct and blunt and rude and and just saying what you wanted to say, but you're but you're giving them it the the info a little bit differently and they're way more accepting of it and then like your ultimate goal is to influence them so It's a whole lot easier if they like you. Corley: And it is that fine line because there's that, you know, I mean my knife fans here, let me get them right. But but there is that fine line of, you know, I don't care what people think, and I'm gonna say what is on my mind. And I have a message I want people to be able to absorb. And there is that dichotomy, even in your own head, of trying to say, how do I stay true to myself, but also be effective? And it's tough. It's a tough way to Try to be authentic.

Michael Dozier: Yeah. Corley: And still, you know. Yeah, not just be spinning your wheels. Michael Dozier: Yeah. Corley: Was there a point for you where you went from the the one extreme to the other? Was there a tipping point or was it more of a accumulation? Michael Dozier: I did four years as a training officer and I was a younger guy, man. I was only like twenty-six or twenty-seven years old when I went to training, which is which is well honestly I wasn't ready. I I didn't I didn't need to be there, but I kind of had a passion for training and I could I was a fire academy instructor and I had to had the pieces that they stuck me in there and I I ran rookie schools for four years and I realized probably three year, probably three years in, man, it was close to the end of my tenure in training. I did four years that the rookies didn't like me. You know, and and and on some level it was because I was I was tough on them and it was necessary sometimes, but I was pretty abrasive and I was very unapproachable. and and and it finally got to a point where enough of them it wasn't a complaints thing. I didn't deal with HR. It wasn't like that. It was more a enough of them were brave enough you know, after they got out of rookie school kind of to tell me that like, yeah, like we feel like we can't we couldn't bring problems to you. We couldn't talk to you. I I don't know whose quote it is. I don't remember. There's a there's a quote out there is basically, you know, that if the the the moment that people are are too afraid to bring their problems to you you're useless to them and when i realized that i had to kind of soften the edges a little bit I was still giving the same message. I was just giving it different. My message was the same, but I was delivering it a lot differently. And and it played out a lot better for me as I went back out on the road as a station captain. I kind of adopted that. I'm not naturally a people person. I'm kind of an introvert. Right on. Like I'm not going to talk to people. I'm not going to make a conversation with a stranger in the grocery store.

Michael Dozier: They talk to me, I'll talk to them, but I'm not going to start the conversation. So it's not natural for me. Corley: Right. Michael Dozier: So I I realize that I have to focus on you know being a little bit not say being nicer but like you know I had to focus on just talking to people and developing relationships. Corley: Yeah no I'm an introvert. People I tell people this and and people are like, yeah shut up. But no I'm I'm a I'm a serious I'm a it's a weird thing because I'm a I'm an introvert that's a people person, if that makes sense. I love people, but I'm an introvert and and interacting with them wears me out. And and they and If you don't understand that, you don't understand it. Especially extroverts just don't get it. Michael Dozier: Yeah, that's me do it. I I love people. It's probably my favorite thing about the firehouse. Just having people there, the camaraderie and the brotherhood and all that. but I I I'm also completely okay with being by myself and not talking to anybody. Corley: Oh, I can sit in a crowded room and just Need I sit by myself, first of all, and talk to no one or need to get out of that room so I can go and be alone in some silence for a minute, have no stimulus. But 100%, brother. I love hearing that. Now let me ask you this because I want to dig in a little bit, being a young training officer, especially, because there's a lot of people that For whatever reason, in their departments, big, small, everything in between, get thrust into position that they don't feel like they were ready for. Imposter syndrome runs rampant

Speaker 4: Yeah. Corley: You know, and what it what what what's probably the one lesson you would want to share with them being a 26-year-old training officer? What's the lesson you would look with your hindsight looking backwards? Michael Dozier: You don't know everything. You know, it's just that simple. I mean, you don't know everything. I I think I I was pretty confident. I had worked in some companies that had gone to some, you know, we don't we don't go, we're not job town, but we go to fires. probably enough fires to say we go to fires, but but not a crazy amount. But I I had worked with some companies to win in some fires. I I volunteered for for several years at my my hometown department and You know, so I was running fires, you know, 350 days a year. Like if I wasn't on vacation, I was going to fires if there was a fire anywhere around and had kind of refined my craft a little craft a little bit. I I think I had built up a decent reputation. I mean you'd have to ask other people about that, but I I think I had a decent you know, reputation as a fireman. And and then, you know, they put those bugles on and and stuck me in, you know, in in or in in front of 25 recruits and said, hey, this guy knows You need to you need to do everything he tells you to do. And I I got a little cocky there for a little while. not super. I mean, I I don't think it didn't get me in trouble or anything, but I got a little bit cocky. And It really took me getting humbled, you know, when I realized that the these rookies weren't didn't want anything to do with me, essentially. And and unfortunately, some, you know, some of them are still in the department. And I do think my my reputation is is different in my department now, but there's still some folks that that have been around, you know, that that decade or so since I was in training that that still see me as Captain Dozier that was in the training division. And it's not I I don't think I'm the same person and Routinely, you know, we'll have folks that that come to my firehouse and they'll work and they'll either say something to me afterwards, like the after the shift, like, hey, it was different than I thought of you, you were different than I thought you were gonna be.

Michael Dozier: Or my guys will go out and work and they'll hear things about me and they're like, that's not he's a goofball, you know. He's he's joking and and laughing and staying up late and he never yells and But that that's not the side of me that those rookies saw when they came in. And some of those some of those folks are lieutenants and captains now and things like that. So, you know, reputation's a big deal, I think, that gets a lot of people write it off as this like, I don't care what anybody thinks about me. Corley: Right. And there is that there is that balance of you got it, because again, you don't want to base everything off what everybody thinks. I'm going to do what everybody wants. You know what I'm saying? You have to be authentic and true to yourself. But you also have to have a solid integrity of your reputation, you know, that that takes into account the influence you have and the impact you have on others. Michael Dozier: Yeah, no doubt. I mean I I always use the analogy of my wife, you know, because most firemen are are fixers. We we want to fix things.

Corley: Right on. Michael Dozier: You know, she could come to me with a problem. I mean, to this day, she could come to me with a problem and if and I could have the right answer. But if she's pissed off at me because I didn't, you know, put the dishes up or I didn't wash clothes or You know, I didn't I whatever. She's mad at me about something. She's not gonna listen to what she's not gonna listen to that answer that I have, even if it's the perfect answer. So I think it's no different if I service like we overcomplicate it and and there is probably something positive about saying that you don't care what other people think. I don't think you should let it change what your mission is. I don't like let think you should let it change what your why is or your core values, your your by all means, you know, stand strong on those things and and don't let other people chip away at them. But if if your goal is to impact others with those core values And with your mission in the fire service, it's going to go a lot easier if you have a good reputation. Right.

Corley: Flies and honey. Michael Dozier: 100%. It's gonna get so much easier if you have a good reputation. Corley: you ready for your first question from the audience? Cool. Robbie Lyle is asking, how did you actively change your image? to become more approachable and how long did it take to fix your image among the recruits you taught? Great question, Robbie Michael Dozier: to be completely honest, I probably didn't fix it very well while I was out there. I think I kind of realized that in between some classes so like you know, the last class or two that I had out there, I think I I had probably eight or nine recruit classes in the four years that I was at. We we hired a bunch of people, we we've grown tremendously in the past decade. And they they probably got a little different version of me than than the first, you know, handful of classes did. And then that's just progressed even further, you know, so the the the folks that work in my firehouse today are are getting a a wildly different version of me than what I was 10 years ago. And most of it is based on the way I act around the firehouse. and I I think I don't think my my core values on the fire ground have changed a ton. I I don't know. I mean I I'm sure I'm better. I'm sure I'm more comfortable in the role. you know, the more calls you run, the more fires you run, I'm more comfortable. But I don't think my core values have changed a ton on the fire ground, but my core values in the firehouse have changed tremendously. They're completely different than what I was as a fireman. As a fireman, I was there 100%. selfish. You know, I wanted I wanted the nozzle. I wanted to do the search. I didn't care where, you know, even if we were fifth due, I didn't want to play my part. I didn't want to play my role. I just wanted I wanted the the glory the the premiere role and there's nothing wrong with that like i i kind of want my young guys to want that i want i want to build that but as a captain i've i've dialed that back a ton and and It's really more of a where do we fit in in the the grand scheme, the puzzle on the fire ground.

Michael Dozier: And then in the firehouse, I think when I had kids was what really changed life for me when I started realizing that life in my house and the way I take care of my family is not that much different than life in the firehouse and the way I take care of my crew. the core values are they should be the same. And and I think if they're not the same, you're gonna struggle. You're either going to struggle at the firehouse or you're going to struggle at home. One or the other. And I know you I know you talk about that where it where you don't the whole work life balance, you know, it's it should shouldn't kind of almost doesn't exist. Right In my mind. Corley: In my mind. It's my opinion. But yes. Michael Dozier: I I agree. And and and I don't mean it from the if you're looking at like the traditional definition of work-life balance of just time, well, yeah, I mean, you know, you do have to devote time at home But when your core values are aligned in the firehouse and in your house at home, that that balance gets so much easier because you don't feel like you're acting and playing a role. when you're in either one of those things. You know, so I don't feel like I'm acting like dad at home. It's just who I am. And then when I go to the firehouse, I'm not acting like Captain Dozier. That's just who I am. I'm just being who I am. And when your core values are in line there and that means you know taking care of your people. Well, I I can say that about my kids. I'm taking care of them I when I say I'm I'm loving my loving the people in my firehouse, wanting what's best for them. Right. That's true. Well that's also true at home. Right. so when when those core values are are in line like that, it makes life sense

Corley: much easier out oh yeah oh yeah I love how you how you how you clarified that work-life balance the values the values of those balanced yeah that's a beautiful way of putting it And and just to clarify, because I always say this, is that is there's no such thing as work-life balance. If you were struggling, I'll and I'll just say it real quick and I'll and I'll leave it alone, but if you're struggling to figure out How do I balance this passion I have for the fire service? And I want to, I want to, you know, how how great this job is. And it's the greatest job on earth, without a doubt. The calling, man, without a doubt. If you're struggling with that, man, you're out of balance. Plain and simple. That's my opinion. My opinion only. There is no balance. Family comes first, period. Michael Dozier: Yeah, 100%. I think when when you start talking about balance, you it's a you're you're giving and taking from something. Corley: Yeah. If you're struggling with it, you're out of whack. That's my that's my opinion. My opinion only. It's not based on any scientific data, man. 100% just a just a just a goofy podcast host opinion. volunteer time. You did volunteer time?

Michael Dozier: Yeah, I did I did about seven years in two different stints with the Loris Volunteer Fireworth Little Hometown I'm from. Corley: Shane Prince wants to know how did your volunteer time influence Your career. Michael Dozier: Oh, that's that's my guy there, man. Probably one of my best friends, one of the best friends ever I've ever run with. We we volunteered together and we worked on the job together a little bit. I You know, it completely changed the type of fireman I was. the department that I work for, especially when I was a fireman, we didn't have a lot of manpower. We still have a ton of manpower. Like anyway, you know, we're dealing with what everybody's dealing with. suburban at the ish type areas. So I got I got thrust into driving pretty early. You know, we don't even have engineers positions even still something we're fighting for right now. So I was driving a pumper a lot. So a lot of the first few fires that I went to early on in my career as a career fireman, I was pumping. I wasn't getting to pull a handline. I wasn't getting to make a push. I wasn't getting to do searches A ton. I you know, I got to see the bigger picture, I got to talk on the radio, I got to be, you know, make make decisions. I didn't have a captain right in my pocket telling me what to do. Right. But when I went on the volunteer side, You know, we had these older guys that drove and played command and all that. And I never had, even after I was a captain in my career department, I never had to play the captain role on the volunteer side. So I got to make pushes. I got to do searches. I got to you know, get hot and dirty and and and you know, feel heat and and make decisions on the interior without having a boss with me. And I just got to be a fireman. And it kind of bridged some of that gap that I missed out a little bit on the career side because of just the nature of our job and and and and our deployment model the way it is right, you know, and especially the way it was right things. We're we're running minimum two most of the time.

Michael Dozier: you know, when I was a fireman, so I didn't get to play fireman a whole lot. I was I was pumping and then, you know, before you know it, you're acting up as a company officer, and then you're riding a seat and and You know, so I got to play fireman on the volunteer side. So I'm the fireman I am right now 100% because of the volunteer side. And just the fact that I got to be a fireman because I didn't really get that opportunity to do a ton on the career side Corley: No, I love that answer, man. Great answer. Absolutely love it. Let's go to company level leadership, which is the company officers wheelhouse, without a doubt. The good, the bad, and ugly of company officers. Michael Dozier: Yeah, that's something I kind of stole well. I mean obviously it's a movie. You know, so I I got a class I'm doing now on that and I'm not gonna really dive into that necessarily, but it's something it's a concept I kind of stole out of the small unit leadership Okay. Standards Malone? Yep. Small Unit Leadership books. Fantastic. Great book. Unbelievably good book. And that book and the The Mission to Men and Men that book. And I kind of took some concepts out of both of them and kind of combined them and built this class off of it. And the what I'm looking at is like a good company officer should be able to balance the mission and taking care of his crew Like 99. 9% of the time, realistically, you should be able to accomplish both of. You should be able to do the mission, prepare for the mission, and also take care of your people and have good morale and all that stuff. When you step down to the bad side of company officers, I think you're looking at someone that gets either the mission right or they take care of their people, but they don't get both. So, you know, they're either they're their people are really happy, they're not transferring, they're they're you know their their their morale's great, but they suck on the fire ground. Well, that's not okay. Well, the inverse of that, being great on the fire ground, which is necessary but then we go back to the firehouse and it's just complete chaos all the time.

Michael Dozier: Toxic. People hate each other. They're not getting along. They're transferring. They're leaving the department. Retention rates down. Morale's terrible. Right. Well that's not good. Right. And then the ugly side of that is the folks that don't get either one of them right. And and we see that from time to time. And a lot of times they bleed over. because I'm gonna be honest, I I don't know how my company would do if the next two or three fires we went to, we just sucked it up. Like, and what I mean sucked it up, like we just went and we just were terrible it would bleed over into the firehouse. 100%. Corley: Without a doubt. I agree. Michael Dozier: One of the best things for morale is going to the fire ground and kicking tail. Kicking, yeah. That's like that's like a shot straight, you know, main vein like mainline morale boost. So that that's that good, bad, and ugly. You know, that good one, which like I said, 99. 9% of the time you should be able to accomplish the mission. and take care of your people. And are there going to come times where you have to make a decision? Yeah. And that's what the company officers get paid to do. as far as I'm concerned. We get paid to make hard decisions when you know on short time with not just lives at stake, but livelihoods at stake. and mental health at stake and relationships at stake and trust at stake. And that is where we I think earn our money at. Whenever those decisions come up where we're saying, hey, you know, this is what's best for the citizens, this is the mission, this is what's best for the organization. And oh yeah. Crew, like we're gonna have to eat this one. And that's where that relationship comes into play. That's where that trust comes into play because That's the perfect the perfect analogy there where you can have the right answer. The right answer is almost always going to be the mission. Like that there's the there's your answer. It's the mission But if you don't have that relationship in place, they're not going to eat that very easily. You know, they're going to just see that, hey, he's not taking care of us. Right. But but if you've built that relationship and they know without a shadow of a doubt that you want what's best for them and that you want them to be on board with the mission and look, your mission should be their mission.

Michael Dozier: And if you don't have that influence over them, they live with you every third day or fourth day or whatever your schedule is. They're living a they're with you a ton. Yeah. Then You you like the I mean they should there there should be no doubt about what your mission is. Corley: Yeah, they're not you're not yeah, you're not fooling anyone. Michael Dozier: Yeah, 100%. Corley: No, absolutely, absolutely. And and and and I'm telling you, firefighters have the best BS detectors in the world. And we spent we spend too much time together to not get it in. John Smith coming at you. He says, in 20 years, when the stories are told, what do you hope the legacy of Michael Dozier is in the fire service? Michael Dozier: Oh man. I did this is one of those weird ones where like I because I've just sat here and said that you know thought about rep how important reputation is. I really don't care what somebody from Boise, Idaho thinks about me. Corley: Nice. Michael Dozier: I don't care what somebody that works at the FDNY thinks about me or or from any other part of the country. I I hope that my my my legacy is the impact I had on the people that lived in firehouses with me. that that rode rigs with me and that you know we're having those conversations at two and three o'clock in the morning on the way back from some BS lift assist or something we've been through for the third or fourth time that day. those impacts I've had on them, you know, I I hope that they can look back one day and and and we'll talk about mentors and stuff later, you know, to rush some more questions but I hope they look back and they say, you know, hey, you know, I'm a better husband because I was with him. I'm a better father because I was with him, I'm a better lieutenant or captain because I was with him, a better leader because I was with him. but that's all I'm worried about. I'm worried about and I and I think it, you know, if you're doing things the right way in your firehouse and in your home You won't have to worry about what the other people are thinking around the country because they'll they'll eventually see it. And if they don't see it, then the folks that you impact will tell those stories about you And they'll see it then.

Michael Dozier: But but at the end of the day I'm not gonna lose any sleep over what somebody on the other side of the country thinks about me. I barely even read comments and stuff, you know, when I post stuff out there, I you know, you'll you'll see people go off and I I I'm not gonna argue with them, you know Oh, they're gonna think what they think and it is what it is, you know. But I I don't I don't want the folks in my firehouse to think what those people think. I want them to think, you know, that I've impacted them and appreciated me for what I am And that so I I hope my legacy is the people that I that that you know cohabitated in firehouses with me have been impacted in a positive way And take that out and do great things, not just in the fire server, but in their lives. Corley: Love it, man. Next one's coming at you from 35 Ryan Fernandez. He wants to know, how do you deal with the negativity of others when you try to be motivational to others on your crew or at your department?

Michael Dozier: I mean that's tough. It's tough to to give a can answer to that. because every every situation is obviously majorly different when you're dealing with personalities. Absolutely. Generally speaking, I would say just keep chugging, you know, just keep setting the example, keep being positive. And the one thing I'll say, you know, I'm I'm I live in the Bible Belt, you know, and I grew up going to church and stuff is that, you know, we always said you, you know, you can beat somebody over the head with a Bible, but you're not gonna change them by beating them over the hell with the Bible. And I think it that translates into a firehouse very well. you you can put too much pressure on them. I I think I think is I believe it's Rob Fisher would do you know 10 pounds of pressure 100% of the time. I think that works. it either works or they'll find their way to another crew. I I think peep people want to be around like-minded individuals. You can go to your local high school, walk in the lunchroom at lunchtime. They're not all cohabitating with everybody. They're sitting with their friends, with the people that think the same way they think. Firemen are no different. You know, so if they're in your firehouse and they don't like the way you're doing things and you keep chugging along, they'll eventually find their way somewhere else. And if you're doing things the right way, Then I can live with that. Right. Now, if you're doing things the wrong way and driving good people off, that's the inverse of it. That's that's a problem. But if you're comp if you're doing things the right way and you're setting a good example and you're putting the mission first and you're taking care of your people. And you're loving them and you're being you're being nice. Like, you know, you're not being an a-ho all the time. You're not being so blunt with them that they don't want to have a conversation with you. You're not beating them over the head with the Bible, but you're living out that example. And they don't like it and they find their way somewhere else. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Right on.

Corley: Right on. But the key comes back to doing the right thing. And how clear is your lens on the fact that it's the right thing. Michael Dozier: Yeah, I mean that self-awareness is tough. Oh, it's tough. Honestly, that was probably like back to that training day, those training days, man. It took me three or four years to become aware. And it and it and it was from some folks having hard conversations with me. I took a class in Washington. It was a class on when to have a hard conversation. Some folks had hard conversations with me and some of them, they weren't even peers necessarily. You know, some of them outranked me, some of them were peers Some of them were recruits, rookies, that that were brave enough to say, hey, Cap, man, you know, you've been a little rough on this. And and me eventually listening. And starting to look in the mirror and realizing like, oh my God, you know, they don't like me. Right. And and listen I think at the core of every human being, no matter how hard they are, no matter what their demeanor is, no matter what their exterior is, everybody wants to be liked on some level It feels good. It's that dopamine hit, you know, when when somebody likes you and appreciates you. And when I started feeling that a little bit more, I was like, oh, this is this is a lot easier than when I was just hard, hard, hard, hard, hard all the time. So but I like, you know, back to Ryan's question, your Fernando, I think it I think you were. So it was Ryan's question. He It's just setting the example. You know, I think that is at the core of I don't care what your leadership mission is. If you're not going to set the example, you're going to lose. You're going to lose every time. You might not lose immediately, but you're going to eventually lose. Because those are watching you, like you said, their BS detectors going off. And no different. I can talk on this podcast tonight. And and there's I'm sure there's some guys from my crew listening. If I say a bunch of BS, I'm not living out in my firehouse. Yeah.

Corley: They're gonna they're gonna know, you know. Michael Dozier: Or if I say something here and in six months from now, six months from now, I slip up and I fall off the wagon and I just come in and I'm just a turd every day. Well You know, I'm going to lose that influence on. Corley: And you and you opened up with saying, hey, when you're talking about negativity in the firehouse, it's a nuanced question because there's so many circumstances that can play into it. But as far as a broad brush painting of the best way to handle it, focus on what you can control and focus your effort. You know, without getting into the weeds of each individual's circumstance and politics involved, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Focus on what you can control. Michael Dozier: Yeah, and here's the thing. You can control how you treat each other. You can control your effort. There's that the famous meme, I guess I don't know if you call it a meme. It was the 10 things that Take zero talent. Corley: Yeah. Michael Dozier: Floated around. I don't remember what the whole list was. Corley: No, it comes up in cycles. Yeah. Michael Dozier: It was like effort and and there's there's controllables that it doesn't matter what you're your salary is, it doesn't matter what your political landscape is, it doesn't matter who your fire chief is. when you come to that firehouse. And look here's I work in a department of 40 stations. My fire chief is not in my firehouse So I there ain't but so much I can blame him for. Right. You know, and and and we love to blame up the chain and sometimes it's warranted. I'm not saying they're all blameless, but There's a whole lot that we can control in our firehouses with the way we treat each other, the way we talk about each other, the effort that we give to each other. the the work that we put in together, the sweat that we share. All that stuff's controllable. And my man, my fire chief ain't got nothing to do with any of that. He doesn't control it up or down, up or down, good or bad. That's completely up to me and the folks I live with every third day. So if we focus on that, man, we we focus on keeping our bubble good life.

Michael Dozier: It's so much easier. It's so much easier to digest. It's so much easier to get up and go to work every third day. When you know you're going into a bubble, that's pretty good. Corley: Mood and how easy is it to lose sight of that, man? Michael Dozier: And look, I'm I'm not immune to it either. Right. I can bitch and moan with the best of them. You know, I I I can get sucked into that negativity trap. It happens on a regular basis. And the older I get, I'm getting a little better about like realizing it, taking a step back, detaching from it a little bit, and and And getting back on track. But no, I don't think very many people are immune to it. Corley: No, it's it's a it's insidious, man. It it'll absolutely wrap its tentacles around you and you won't even realize that you're sinking in, man. But yes. Mark Alone says, hell yes, how can anyone not love this dude? So glad you got Dozier on the scrap with the fist bump. He's a good 100%. Yeah, Mark's one of the best. In fact, he's coming on. We got to get him rescheduled because I had to move. But yeah, he's coming back. Brad Kay wants to know, without a doubt, you've instilled a great culture in your firehouse. Do you think it's more difficult to change the culture of the firefighters under you or your fire officers?

Michael Dozier: I mean, I, well, point blank, I think that probably the hardest thing about leadership, more so than even leading up the chain, is leading peers. I think leading peers at the company officer level is probably one of the hardest things about the fire service that I've come across personally. I do think it's easier to lead to lead firemen. And I don't mean and I only mean that because, you know, at least when you have rank, and it's not that you lean on it. But it's our that formal leadership is there, that formal rank is there, you have a voice with them. Whether they want to listen to you or not, at least initially, you have a voice with them They work for you. And yeah, hopefully you get to a point where you look at each other and say, hey, we work together. We work with each other. I don't work for you. You don't work for me. But at the peer level, that doesn't exist. Right. I talk to another captain who who a lot of times, I'm a younger guy, man. I just turned 38 years old. And I made captain at like 26, 27 years old I was the youngest captain in the department. So every other peer that I ran across, and I was in a training division, you know, at 27 years old, I'm a training officer. And we're doing company burns and every single boss that comes to these company burns, that's a peer of mine, are all older than me and have more experience in our fire department than I do. that that's not easy because there is no inherent respect there you have to earn every bit of that Probably the biggest thing, yeah. Look, like I said, we're gonna keep it simple. It's right back to leading by example. It goes right back to leading by example, man. It goes by leading by example and not trashing them if they're not doing things that the way you want to do them. not bashing their name across the department, trying your best to stay out of the rumor mill and the gossip train of spreading bad the bad word about this boss that that's a peer of yours And just every time you have a chance to impact them, being deliberate about how you impact them. And you know, we we had a we had a guy, we had a fireman on it.

Michael Dozier: I got hired with the name Mitch Hann. He passed away on a motorcycle crash. I think it was in 2014 or 15. And I was a training officer at the time. I had a proby call me. He he was out of recruit school. He was a probing and he called me. And this guy was just a fireman that passed away. He was a senior fireman, but he was he had no rank And I didn't know the Proby even knew him. And they they had worked a shift together shortly before he passed away. one shift together. And this kid calls me because I and I don't know why he called me because this was back in my days where I wasn't that approachable. I don't know if he was with a bad boss or why he felt comforta this one this particular person felt comfortable calling me, but he called me kind of venting about some stuff and he was struggling with with the guy dying and and he talked about how impactful that one shift that he spent with him. And it was like a like a light bulb went off for me. Wow. Like, oh my God. You know, one shift, one tour, one encounter, how impactful you can be. So when you're doing peers who a lot of times they're not in your firehouse, you know, I do have a I do have another officer in my firehouse. We're a dual piece house. So I, you know, I have a ladder boss there. well that that that side of things a little easier because that's no different. We're living together. He's seeing me every day, seeing the good and the bad. When we're dealing with these peer officers that we're only seeing on calls, or we're only seeing at multi-company trainings, we're only seeing it live burns, we're only seeing it inserts. You gotta be deliberate with your interactions with them. You gotta be deliberate with it. And don't waste the opportunity you have to impact them. And and when you have that opportunity, don't beat them over the head with the Bible. You know, just talk to them. And if they're doing good things, tell them, hey man, I saw, you know, had that fire we ran last week You got you you and you guys, I can tell you guys been training, y'all been kicking butt.

Michael Dozier: That's great. and the more of that you give them, the more opportunity you're gonna have to have the hard conversation with them. Cause that hard conversation realistically is only hard if there's no relationship. there. Oh I love that. Corley: I love that. And it and and and I love what you said. do not underestimate the power of one shift. Michael Dozier: Oh my God, man. It's one of the biggest things I talk about when I when I do my women in powerhouse class. One of my favorite stories I get to tell is of that guy. And like just don't underestimate the impact you can have on somebody in a single encounter. You can change somebody's life. And I think that kid's life got changed that night, that one tour. His career trajectory definitely got impacted. But you you can change somebody's life in a single encounter. And most of us, if we thought hard enough, can probably think of several individuals that impacted us that we probably didn't spend a ton of time with. Yeah. That that impacted us and changed our life, changed our career, put us on the right track. and it might have been from a hard conversation. It might have been just from a like, hey man, you're doing a good job. Keep doing what you're doing.

Corley: Wow. No, that's powerful. And as you sit there, my my gears are turning going, holy shit, he's he's dead on. Wow. Yeah. Brian Turner, what are some core values you look for when you're seeking a new member for your house? Michael Dozier: That's my battalion chief. One of my best friends. He was a peer. He was a captain next door at a neighboring station. And promoted up and we got lucky enough to keep him a good dude. I've known him for a long time. And probably number one, I I struggle. I work at the busiest firehouse in my department. Okay. And it's been the busiest firehouse in my department for the the whole 18 years I've been there. And how long before that, I have no clue It's super busy. We we, you know, I say we're not job town, but we get our fair share of like first in work, first do work. It's a very diverse community we work in. from high income stuff to low income stuff. It also can be kind of a beatdown. you know, we ran close to 7,000 calls last year out of that firehouse. I got an ambulance there. We do fire, we do fire in EMS, and that that ambulance is is is rough. It's a rough assignment. and there's a little ton of good that comes with it, but there's a lot of bad that comes with it. And you and you and I got frustrated early on at when I was recruiting people Oh I had a couple vacancies early on and I I hit some home runs early and got some good young guys in there that that ended up being great and that because some several of them are lieutenants now. but I also kind of got my heart broke a few times, you know, when I was asking guys and they're like, man, I'm not trying to go get deep down. You know, and they turn turned me down. And I I say sometimes that I don't recruit to my firehouse And it's something that I kind of stand by pretty firmly. I'm not gonna go in my department, everybody knows. I think pretty well what my reputation is at this point, what my crew's reputation, what that firehouse's reputation is. They know it's busy. They know what what's going to go on when they get there Probably my number one thing I'm looking for is somebody that just simply wants to be there.

Michael Dozier: I don't want to have to sell you on wanting to be here. Right. If if if you want to be here, we'll figure all the rest out. We'll figure it out when you get here. We'll figure it out. You know, and then probably number two is just don't be a douchebag That seems so easy to say. but probably probably when a good friend of mine, a lieutenant, he retired off our job, Carl Meyer. He was he was the NYPD cop. He had a he had a say and he used to tell me, he said, you know You can be the baby breath of firefighting. And if you're a douchebag, I don't want you at my firehouse. Yeah. So you want to be here? Well, if you want to be here, the training stuff's going to be easy. You're going to pick that stuff up because you want to do it. and then you're just a you're just a good human being. And if if I can take those two things and plug it in, man, we'll teach y'all the rest of it. But you know, you you're gonna get exposed, we're gonna run calls. You're gonna get experience. You're gonna get to go to some fires eventually. I mean you might have a dry spell, but you're gonna go to some fires. You're gonna cut some cars, you're gonna run a ton of medical calls and talk to people and deal with the public and help people. And you'll you'll get experience. Just don't be a douchebag and want to be here.

Corley: That's pretty simple, brother. That's a That's a beautiful formula for success. Mark Alone has a question for you. He says, Hori is huge and runs both fire and EMS. And you touched on just how busy that box is. He asks, can you speak to the challenges and the misconceptions about how that impacts culture in your experience? Michael Dozier: Man, I'm probably gonna hurt some feelings here. and it that's the only fire service I know. Corley: You know, I just want to say this right out the guy. I love when someone lead when a guest leads off with that. So go ahead. Michael Dozier: Yes, I I know probably what I'm gonna say, there's gonna be some folks in the don't agree with there's probably some folks in my in my firehouse that don't agree with what I'm gonna I'm gonna say and I did the volunteer side of things we didn't have ambulances it was just you know first responder normal volunteer fire service Other than that, my entire exposure to the fire department is Oregon County Fire Rescue. And we do, like anybody else, you know, 80-85% EMS. We have 27 staffed ambulances. Almost every firehouse has a has a staffed ambulance in it. I have, I think our second, my my ambulance ran 4,500 calls last year. I mean they get they get hammered.

Corley: They get jobs. Yeah, work. Michael Dozier: You know, they're they're busy. it has been my experience, and I know this is not true everywhere, but it's been my experience. That EMS does not negative as negatively impact the fire service as much as a lot of people try to make it out to be. And I believe personally that it's kind of a cop out to say that I'm not the fireman I could be because of EMS. Because it's been my experience in my department, the best firemen are also the best EMTs and paramedics. The best EMTs and paramedics are also the best firemen. And it's for one reason, because they give a shit. Because they care. So the ones that have put the work in to be good firemen, they're just intuitively, they're the best EMTs because they want to help people, they want to take care of people. And at some point they realize, hey, I should probably be pretty good at these skills because it's going to help me help people. Well, on the fireside, what's the difference? What's the difference? I don't see a difference. Now, I do know, look, I, you know, we were doing fire and EMS when I hired, so I don't know any different. I I didn't see it go from fire to both And maybe there was a negative impact. But my experience has been that it's a kind of a cop-out answer. I it was one of your scrap guests. I don't remember who it was. I'm pretty sure it was an FDNY guy. Might have been Mike Dugan. But I heard I heard one of them say one time, and it may have been a different podcast. that if you don't like doing EMS, then what all you're simply saying is you don't like helping people. And and look, I don't want to ride an animals, man. You know, would it make life easier if if if Orie County government came down tomorrow and said, hey, you guys are just gonna do fire department stuff now. Like you're not we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna you know bid these ambulances out or or whatever and that's that's gonna be the one less headache you got to deal with from now and you're gonna come to work and oh you're gonna worry about some fires. Yeah I mean we'd probably get pretty good at what we're doing But that's not the environment we're in.

Michael Dozier: So there's no need to complain about it. You know, there's there's zero need to complain about it. It's not going away. If anything, in most apartments, if it's not there already, it's coming. So you may as well just get get ready for it. And I and I and I understand some people probably probably don't agree with that because their experiences have been different than mine. Corley: Sure, sure, sure. Michael Dozier: But my experience has been, you know, I I I could name off the five best firemen in my firehouse. And there's a good chance they're also probably the five best EMTs in the phenomenal medics, yeah. Corley: Right on. And and Dan Bender chiming in and said that was Lasky. So I'm not sure that sounds that's so familiar to me. And so I I re I I think it was a scrap and I'll take Dan Bender's word for it I remember hearing it, but there's 200 over 200, you know how many his memory's way better than mine, so we'll take his word for it. Lasky said it. It sounds like Lasky and absolutely backs, yeah where we at? What is the biggest challenge you foresee? What is this comes from Josh Jackson? What is the biggest challenge you foresee in the company officer role? Hmm. There are a lot of questions coming at you, my brother.

Michael Dozier: You know, and I gotta preface this with like I'm not this is not a generational problem. I I don't think I I'm not a fan of blaming generations. And the reason I say that I'm 38 years old, I'm not that old. I mean I think I'm a millennial, hype, you know, hypothetically. I don't know that I act that way, but I I think I'm a millennial. And I'm telling you right now, man, I got some young guys in my firehouse that are young, young, you know, born post-9-11 young. Right. That are absolute killers. Right on. So so to just go blame generations, I'm not a fan of. However, you know what I'm seeing is that as I get older That's something I'm gonna have to adapt to because these kids are growing up differently. their their upbringings are different than than what my upbringing was. their their family values are different sometimes than what my family values were. so I I foresee me having to adapt to some of that. Right on. No, that's beautiful. Now having said that, One thing I I believe and I hate hearing, I really hate hearing company officers, especially, but even chiefs, depending on the situation. I hate hearing people say that I didn't sign up to raise them. I think it's the exact opposite, man. You signed up to raise them. Yes. And it's not that it's not that I'm a dad figure to them. Maybe I'm a big brother to them, whatever. But you can't blame somebody for who raised them. That's one thing that's a core belief of mine Like in the in out in the world, not just in the fire service. I can't blame somebody for who raised them and what their life experiences were when they were a child. So when they walk into my firehouse and they don't know how to clean a toilet. They don't know how to mop. They don't know how to run a saw. That's the obvious one. Oh, you didn't, you know, it's no skills. You didn't know how to run a saw or tinker on a small engine. Well it's it's mine and our, like my crew's obligation. And they know this up front, like they're they're clear about this. It's our obligation to teach them. Hell yeah. You know, and and and you can call that raising them if you want to, but it's no different if they walk into my firehouse and they don't have just common life skills of like walking up and introducing themselves and shaking your hand And they legitimately just don't know any better sometimes than because that's not natural.

Michael Dozier: Especially today, these kids are growing up with cell phones in their hands. I didn't grow up with a cell phone in my hand. Right. You know, I had to learn how to communicate, and I don't even know if I'm that good at it, but I had to learn how to communicate face to face. Some of these kids don't know how to do that stuff. You got to teach them. You got to get them out of your comfort zone. And and and and teach them. And I think you do that by loving them. Corley: -huh. Dude, I love it. I love it, dude. You're preaching my language. I love it. And here's the deal. You said it. I didn't sign up to raise him. Anybody who says that, man. Here's the deal. If they come in, if they come in and they're hired into your service, they are sworn into your service, be it volunteer, career, whatever, and they don't know how to do it and you're in charge, you are responsible for them because you have that rank, that bugle, whatever You signed up to raise them. Plain and simple. Michael Dozier: Yeah, and look, and here's the other thing. You know, when they walk into your firehouse, man, they're not the fire chief's problem anymore. And maybe you know what? Look here. Maybe they shouldn't have got hired. What you gonna do about it? Right on. You know, so quit blaming everybody else. pull them in, you know, we got it, we gotta quit eating them while while they're young. You know, we gotta quit running them off just because maybe you you don't want to put the time and effort into them to to I don't want to say fix them, but to to teach them.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Michael Dozier: And and look, everybody's not cut out for this, man. I I'm not here to like, I'm not it's not a fairy tale. I'm not saying like you're gonna fit you You know, solid point. Hey, pull them in and love them and everything will be okay. No, some of them don't need to be there. But you can't run them off if you didn't put the effort in. You just can't. I can't consciously do that. That's something I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. So put the effort in, man. Teach them. Show them the way. I'm blessed, so blessed right now because I got these guys in my firehouse that. . . That are living it, you know. So we get a probie, and we're getting a probie here soon. And I won't have to have a lot of those hard conversations with them Because those guys are. Those guys that that you know have been with me for three, four, five years now are are gonna have those conversations and I know they're living life the right way. but yeah, I I don't I don't buy into that. We didn't we didn't sign up to raise them, man. I see people post that on Facebook. I I see and look, I'm not bashing the older generation. You know what they're doing? They're just repeating what they were told. I mean it's that's all it is. They were probably saying that a hundred years ago.

Corley: No, I always like to say, man, there was there was a generation, you know, in 19, whatever, 20 was saying Ah, these young kids coming in, they can't do you know whatever. They're worthless. And that turned out to be what they call the greatest generation. Yeah, remember the greatest generation got ripped by the by the people before them, the the millennials before them, or the the centennials before them. Whatever they were called at the time. No, without a doubt, man. Some of the people, yeah, there we go. Dude, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. I got more questions coming at you. How you doing? How you feeling? How's your energy? Michael Dozier: Good Corley: Jacob Williamson wants to know, in your training days, did you deal with people coming through the academy that did not perform or had poor character? How did you deal with that? Michael Dozier: a little bit. Not a ton. I probably dealt with more non-performers from a physical perspective than I did from you know just the type of person they were. Sure. and and look here's the thing. I wasn't living with them either. and a lot of stuff gets exposed whenever you live with somebody for 24 hours that doesn't get exposed for eight hours in a classroom or on the drill ground. So I didn't deal with a ton of that when I was in training. A little bit here and there and and I and I I I joke sometimes, you know, because you know, human resources gets ripped constantly. Some of us deserving. they the the handful of times I dealt with them when I was in training, they had my back. And maybe it was because I had my documentation squared away and and and I had made good decisions. but they had my back. They didn't hang me out to dry. now did I deal with non-performers from a physical perspective? Yeah. And I think probably almost all fire departments probably deal with that on some level nowadays because I'm gonna be straight up, man. And and this is not a shot at my fire department. This is a shot at the fire service, I guess. Our our physical standards to get on the job, probably in almost any department, is not where it needs to be. no, I'm not saying there's some outliers. I'm sure there are some outliers that just hire nothing but studs because they're there they have a physical standard to get on the job.

Michael Dozier: But most places, we're simply put, we're hiring people that physically wouldn't have gotten hired 30 years ago. and and and you know that that's a a big problem that that's probably gonna have to be addressed at some point in time in the future because you know, we're we're we're hammering line of duty deaths, obviously, which is good. I don't think anybody, but in my opinion, nobody should ever sign up to die on a job. Right on. but I mean the numbers are there. We're not dying on the fire ground. We are, but we're not that you know the the the bulk of the numbers is not on the fire ground. Right. the numbers are inflated. And look, are there are there folks that are in fantastic physical condition to have a medical emergency and that stuff's going to happen? Like we we we forget sometimes that we're human beings and and human beings perish. healthy ones, young ones, it happens. So some of that stuff's gonna happen. But do we also lose folks that physically aren't ready to do the job currently and maybe weren't even when they got on the job? Yeah. And that's something we probably could prevent on some level.

Corley: No, slipping of the standard is without a doubt across the board. And there are places that actually hold the standard. Like you said, but yes, it's absolutely, it's absolutely a real, real, very real deal. Michael Dozier: Yes, I dealt with more of that. I didn't I didn't deal and and I think it's just because look you know I had them eight eight or nine hours a day. And for the most part, they were just listening to me or doing what I was saying. So a lot of that stuff didn't come out. So I didn't have to deal with it at the time when I was in that training environment. Corley: All right, this next one's coming at you from Alex Valbuena. He says, this is for both of you. What would you tell a new member of your fire department? or a new member of the fire service to make a significant impact on their career. Michael Dozier: well I can probably segue into my expectations. and I know Chief Thompson, he's he's hammering the mission statement stuff. and there's other guys out there really hammering that simple. Mission statement. I I think we we we way overcomplicate the job a lot of times. And the expectations I have for my crew is very simple. And it's three three main expectations, and they're so simple we really don't ever have to talk about them. It's help people, be really nice to people. And kill fire. It's just that simple. And you can plug in whatever you want to plug in to kill fire. You know, you can plug in, do good searches. You can plug in be the best vent man on the roof you could possibly be, whatever your role is.

Corley: I love, I love the power of Killfire though. Michael Dozier: I really do. It's just as simple as hell. That's powerful. Help people be really nice and kill fire. And I have found, and and look, those are the same expectations I have myself. So when I when I'm in a situation in public on a medical call at the grocery store, riding down the road in traffic, when somebody blows the horn, cuts us off, or or on the fire ground, and I get faced with a situation where I'm hesitating because I don't know what the right decision is The right decision almost 100% of the time is in one of those three expectations. And when we just default to those three things, help people, be really nice, kill fire. It almost always fixes itself. Like almost immediately a lot of times. So I I think it's just that simple. And the problem is, and and Chief Thompson, he's way more eloquent about putting this stuff than I am. You know, we have these mission statements that are two, three, four paragraphs long. And when I get, and you know, I took a class with Chief Jason Hobelman. He our department brought him in, I think last year you love that dude. He didn't say it quite the same way as as Chief Thompson. But he he was hitting on mission statements and saying like look man a mission statement should be a framework to make decisions. Well I can't I can't lay two a two or three paragraph mission statement on top of a problem And and find my answer in there. Because I may not have 20 minutes to think about it to figure out what the right answer is. But I can lay help people over almost any problem. And say like, look, the answer is inside this frame. And if it's outside of this frame, I'm not doing it. And the right answer might be out there occasionally, but almost all the time, the right answer is inside that frame So, you know, when I if I'm talking to a new guy, I don't want him thinking about a hundred different things when he gets faced with a hard decision. All I want him thinking about is help people be really nice, kill fire. And the answer is in there 99. 999% of the time.

Corley: I love it, brother man. I love it. Yeah, absolutely timestamp. I got like a list running. Thank you. Yeah, Rob Ramirez said timestamp. There's been a few timestamps tonight, a few max points without without a doubt. and I think Jason Hobelman's if I can quote him right as take care of people You know, that's I think that's his wording. That's his wording. Michael Dozier: Mission statement of his fire reform is we take care of people. Corley: We take care of people. And I dude, it like you said, man. All right. I love this question. It comes from Billy Floyd What would be the one piece of advice Captain Michael Dozier would provide new hire firefighter Michael Dozier if you had the chance to speak to your younger self? Michael Dozier: Go to the go to the busy firehouse. go to the busy firehouse. I I came up in my department. We have a very diverse gr just areas 1200 square miles. you know we hit we hit 80,000 runs this past year. We have ambulances. We we also we have busy firehouses like where I work. We also have some very slow firehouses We have some very rural areas and I spent a good bit of my career as a fireman. the last cut of the last handful of years I was a fireman, I was in a little bit busier environment, but I spent a lot of time on the rural side because that's where I grew up. I grew up out, you know you know, out in the part of our county. And five years ago, in about in about two weeks, five years ago, I got transferred. to the house I'm at now. And it has been absolutely the best thing I've ever done in my career. Is that now I don't really know why I didn't go to the busy house early on. And I'm not sure. There maybe there was some intimidation there. Maybe there was some some like the imposter syndrome thing like you know like can I you know I know I've got fires and I get a decent decent reputation but like am I gonna go there and get exposed? I didn't want to be vulnerable which which is none of that's good stuff. But for whatever reason I didn't I didn't go. And if I had to do it over again, I'd have told and and if I ever have one of my kids get on the job, I'll tell them this.

Michael Dozier: Go somewhere and get exposed. go you know, go to that busy firehouse and just get your get your mess kicked in every day and learn the job and get that exposure, go to the fires, go to the medical call, do all that stuff that that sometimes you're not getting to do every day in the slower firehouses. And I know some departments aren't situated like that. You know, they have three or four stations and they all run similar call volume, but ours isn't like that. I mean, we got stations that do 7,000 calls and stations that do 300, 400 calls. and I spent a lot of time in those, you know, seven, eight, nine hundred call firehouses. And if I had to do it over again, I'd have gone to the busy firehouse early on. Corley: Right. on bro. I love I love that advice man and that is man please please please if you are young and in the fire surface and you have the option Yeah. Take advantage. Take advantage. You will not regret it later in your career. I love it, man. Which takes me to one of my favorite questions I ask because I love books. Everybody who knows me knows I love reading and I love talking to readers And we've already talked about Danj Malone and small unit leadership. Thank you. Yes. But absolutely. No, there was another one you referenced in there. Mission Men and Me. Yes, that was the other one. But no, irregardless, or or regardless for Brett Coqlazier, if he's listening. Books or books that you think firefighters should be reading?

Michael Dozier: I mean obviously there there's some obvious ones. you know, extreme ownership. Jocko and Leaf Babbamandate, that probably changed my life when I read that book for the first time. But I'm sure that's been referenced a ton of times some books, I don't know, I don't know if they've been referenced or not, some of them. Chop Wood Chop Wood Carry Water by Josh Metcalfe. Corley: Ooh. Michael Dozier: probably one of the best books I've read. It's a quick read, man. I think I read it in a day or a day and a half or something. I'm not a fast reader. but it it's a book about grit and about falling in love with the process and you know basically this guy's goes and he's training to be a samurai and it's almost like the karate kid thing, the whole wax on, wax off. And he thinks his his master's having him do all this this menial tasks And every day he's starting a day and he's chopping wood and carrying water and he and he learns at the end that that, you know, getting good at that bait those basic stuff is why he ends up being a good simmer. so chop would carry water. another one, I know it's your ship. I think you you've talked about it's your ship. I love it.

Corley: Abershoff is might be one of the most influential people that I've never met. Michael Dozier: I just read it and listened to it like in the last year. And oh my God, man, that from start to finish, it was nothing but bombs, you know, stuff that was hitting home for fire service. probably the the the another one, how moral leadership Only yes. Now more on leadership. I know everybody reads, you know, We Were Soldiers and then they think about him from that. He has a book that's just on leadership. Corley: Mm-hmm. Michael Dozier: And it and it's not as much of him telling a story, but telling stories to support different leadership leadership components. that's really good. And then the last one, probably the book that changed my life the most was a 40, a 40-day devotional. That I did probably 10 years ago called Act Like Men by James McDonald. And that was the book that, and it was a 40-day Bible devotional. Okay. And I did it probably 10, maybe, maybe more than 10 years ago. And it it really framed the standard that we should be living our life to. in a way that I had not thought about. And the gist of the book basically is like, what standard are you judging yourself to? Are you judging yourself to your neighbor's standard? And saying like, hey, I'm doing a good job just because I'm doing better than he is. Right. When he may be a slug. He might be a mutt. And and you might not realize that you may also be a mutt but you're just doing a little bit better than he is, so you feel good about yourself. Right having that biblical standard of what it is to be a man on the job, in your in your home, in the firehouse. but yeah, act like men. Probably the I've done several devotionals. I try to do one every couple of years, like a 40-day devotional. I probably should do them more often, but I try to do one every few years, and that is by far the best one I've ever done

Corley: Nice. I love hearing that, brother. Beautiful. Which officially takes us to one of my favorite parts of the scrap. It is the five questions for firefighters. It's been around for quite some time. Not quite the entirety. Because originally we started with one question. Then it turned into the five questions. And now we are currently on questions 5. or the 5Q3 version 3. 3. So my question for you first of all is are you ready for the five questions for firefighters? Michael Dozier: Yeah, let's do it. Corley: The questions are arbitrary or the answers are 100% your opinion. There is no right or wrong. The points are arbitrary. They're assigned by me with the help of the studio audience. And I want you to smash the like, smash the heart, smash whatever you can smash if you are watching live as he answers If you think it needs max points, if you like the answer, because that will help me out. Also, you can also type max points 100% or love it. Those are the absolute keywords. Here we go. Number one. What is the skill that has carried you through your fire service career? Michael Dozier: This is probably the hardest one for me. And I don't know if what I'm gonna say is a skill. But I do think it's something that everybody doesn't show every day. A love of your people And framing who your people are. So when I say love your people, I don't mean, and this is a core component of my of my classes, a core component of stuff I post on Facebook and Instagram, all that. When I say love your people, I don't just mean your crew, because that's the easy answer. Like love the people that you know take care of them. That's easy. What I mean is like love your family, be present with them put them first love the people in your firehouse and love your community and when you frame stuff in love And and and and we didn't get to this, but I it just this actually works out perfectly. talking about mission statements. I also have a so I have those three simple expectations. I also have a personal mission statement. And my personal mission statement is to do things because I love people. So when I get faced with a hard decision at home with my with my kids, with my wife, when I get faced with a hard decision at the firehouse, when I get faced with a hard decision on in traffic, when somebody pulls out in front of me.

Michael Dozier: I frame that hard decision with am I doing this because I love them and because I want what's best for them? And it brings everything into focus for me. And makes the decision for me. So when I figured that out, and it took me several years of being on the on the job because I told you I was selfish, and you can't love someone to be selfish. they they just don't mat, they don't fit together. but when I realized that Hey, I need to love these people and I need to put them first and all that. It made life so much easier for me on the job. Corley: Dude. Hey, max point. Easy max points. This is the killer part. Thank you everybody for smashing the buttons because that made it the easiest. It just flew. It just flew. Just hearts and hundreds. Hearts, thumbs ups, and hundreds flying by, which made it one of the easiest things to ever score. So thank you, audience. You killed it. And only thing that killed it more was your answer to the question, Michael. So thank you. absolutely loved that interaction Number two, I love this question. It might be my I don't know if it's my favorite question because number five is probably my favorite question, but this is there. This is fighting for it. It's Job Town. It's time. You're in route. You're responding. Of course, the scene from backdraft. McCaffrey's jumping on the rig. They're slapping that cassette into the cassette deck. What song are you playing in route?

Michael Dozier: Man, you I'm gonna be honest, Coral. When I when I first heard you add this question, I thought I when I first heard you say it, I was like, man, this is gonna be dumb But as I've listened to I don't know how I don't know how many podcasts or how many episodes you've done with it's around 40, 40 or 45. Corley: There's 45 songs now on the playlist. Michael Dozier: That's I I look forward to hearing it now and when I first thought about it, you know, you know, I was thinking Rage Against the Machine. Well, I'm you know, I I'm about that, but I I've heard several already say that. I've heard several say that. Pantera Walk popped in my head. I I was wanting that one. But I grew up in the South and And it's probably not going to go the direction a lot of people think. The guys that work with me are gonna completely understand this. They're gonna they'll probably know what answer is coming. I grew up in the South. Everybody hears my accent, they're thinking country music, southern rock, blah, blah. You know, I grew up in a very diverse community. You know, the high school I went to, you know, there was no minority.

Corley: I mean I'm just gonna say I love the buildup already. I'm anxious. I'm anxious. Michael Dozier: No, we were just we were just jumbled up in there together, you know. So I I got exposed to a lot of different backgrounds and things as a kid, you know. My mom listened to R and B and rap and And you know, my dad listened to Southern Rock and a little bit of metal and stuff. And I I I got exposed to a ton of stuff. And the guys that my my wife hates it because I live I you know every time she gets in a truck, there's a different genre of music on Okay. the genre I listen to when I work out is rap, man, and old school stuff and a big southern hip-hop kind of influence on my life when I was growing up, the kids I hung out with and stuff like that. I'm gonna go Crime Mob, which is an Atlanta group, Nuck If You Buck. And I don't know if anybody else is gonna give you that answer in any I don't think I it's definitely original. I'm gonna be straight up, man. For one reason. When I hear that thing, I want to fight. You know, I'm ready to fight. So it gets me fired up, you know, like I can't listen to that when I'm in traffic or I'll be got in trouble, you know. But go into a fire I think I would I I would throw that on. So the boy the boys at work, that makes it into playlists and we're working out pretty regular. So they're probably used to it. But Yeah, no.

Corley: Hey, here's the deal. It's now gonna be in the playlist. It's gonna be there's there's a Spotify playlist, and there is even for the old school people, there's a Pandora playlist. So it will be added to the playlist Nuck if you buck. And who'd you say it was? Crime Mob? Michael Dozier: Crime Mob. Corley: Crime Mob. Michael Dozier: Crime Mob a little scrappy. Corley: We'll see. We'll have to pull it up, man. And it's getting the hearts and it's getting the 100s. I absolutely love it. Thank you, audience. That makes it so easy to say this next part, which is max points for knuck if you buck. All right, number three, what is your favorite fire service tradition? Michael Dozier: I tell you what, and I know everybody always says kitchen table and all that. and it kinda is the kitchen table, but I'm gonna I add a little something to it Corley: Hey, I'll just interrupt you real quick. Just for reference for you and everybody else. I wrestled with this question so much because the Firehouse Kitchen table wins so many times. And I and I've qualified it and I've removed it and I put it back in. But bottom line is this All I care about is what you think the the the tradition is and why. So I want to I want to be clear the the why is the important part. So go ahead. I didn't mean to cut you off.

Michael Dozier: Yes, I'm I'm gonna say the kitchen table or or the front bumper, the the couch in the bay, whatever. At 2 o'clock in the morning when almost everybody's gone to bed and there's just you and one other guy there. And and the gloves come off and it gets raw and and you really and truly get to know each other. And I've had so many conversations like that with folks, both when I was a fireman. And and now that I'm a captain with with fireman or with the lieutenant on my shift or the the guy that filled in for overtime and I'm like I'm watching him and he's there on a detail and I see that he's waiting until I go to bed to go to bed And then we have that that raw conversation. That is what I love. That one. And look, I love the kitchen table at shift change with coffee I I love that. I love the the kitchen table after dinner when everybody's taking shots at each other, picking on, you know, this guy's got big ears and this one's got a big head. I I love that. But I love that kitchen table or that that that that picnic table out on the pad or that front bunker at two or two or three o'clock in the morning. Or or like, hey, we run we run minimal stuff, you know, low staffing pretty regular on the way back from a call at two or three o'clock in the morning, which is you and your driver And and you're talking about just some just something random.

Corley: Yes. Yes. Michael Dozier: And and it and you end up down a rabbit hole. Oh yeah. But I I tell people when I mean when I'm teaching like 90% of what I'm teaching about is rabbit holes that I was down at two o'clock in the morning right on So that that's probably my favorite firehouse tradition. Corley: When the bed is calling and your eyes are tired, but the what the conversation is way better than even sleep. Oh yeah. Michael Dozier: When you wake up the next morning, you're like, I should have gone to bed earlier. Corley: Yeah, I should have gone to bed four hours before. Yes, without a doubt, man. no doubt. And Ken Norton said, I thought purple rain for sure. Holy crap, dude. You talking about some purple rain All right. Michael Dozier: That's my guy. Corley: Dude. Yeah. Ken Norton or Prince? I just want to know. Michael Dozier: But you know, me and Ken Norton, we we had some moments. with Prince back in the day in a firehouse. Corley: I'm telling you, the halftime show when Prince played in the rain and he played Purple Rain. Holy crap. Okay, anyway. That's my yeah one of the greatest halftime shows of all time number four you're you're rocking it by the way max points three for three and that's not me that is a hundred percent the smashing in Man. On the clock. This is the clock. Yeah. This is the Mount Rushmore question. You get one minute to put and describe who the four people you would put on your Mount Rushmore of the fire service and go.

Michael Dozier: one Tom Brennan, I grew up, you know, I grew up reading random thoughts. He was still writing it, writing it whenever I first subscribed to fire engineering, and I I had a captain give me the book on random thoughts after he passed away. Changed my life John Norman, legend. Probably the first tactics book reader, just fire department book I ever got was was Handbook of Tactics, you know, and I still have it, it's on the shelf behind me next one, Rodney Hardy, Loris Volunteer Fire Department. He's assistant chief. He impacted me so many different ways in my marriage, being a dad, all that stuff. He passed away a medical line of duty death in 2013. Nobody knows him, but the local guys, but he was fantastic. a dumbbell thread of South Carolina Fire Service, a bone here, Carter Jones, retired chief from Clarendon County is an absolute legend in the fire service in South Carolina that people outside of South Carolina most of the time probably don't know who he is, other than maybe him crossing paths with an instructor or something at some point. Carter Jones, Clarendon County, he's still alive. He's still with us storian at the South Carolina Fire Service. He's he's a legend around here. Love it.

Corley: Brennan Norman Hardy Jones. That's right. There's the four on the Mount Rushmore for Michael Dozier. Which officially takes us to heavy fire searchable space. Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on VES? Michael Dozier: Man, I'm an engine guy. I grew up on the engine. I ride, we call it a squad now, but it's a rescue engine. And I've never ridden a truck other than a detail here and there. I got a truck in my firehouse and we have a pretty good engine truck. kind of battle going on most of the time. We talk a lot of junk to each other and and all that. so the truck guys are probably gonna like when I say this I I love being on the nozzle. I do. and with our with our manpower, I occasionally still get to do it. So I, you know, I I it's not as foreign to me as as this other part, man. But I think the reason we exist is to pull people out of burning buildings. And to I would say to the point that and you know some of these engine guys aren't gonna like this, you know, the I I don't think the truck should be called the support company. I think everybody everybody supports getting the search done. So like I you could argue and you know, depending on what your deployment model is, you got a truck in-house, man, the engine's probably the support crew. So I'm gonna go with VES, man. I I don't think there's anything cooler that you can do in the fire service than pulling someone out of a building. And effectively, like if you had not acted, they wouldn't have lived. And man, what what can compare to that? So I'm I'm gonna say DES. The truck guys are gonna pick on pick on me about it next year, but I'm gonna say B E S. There you go.

Corley: And that offici Hey, they you gotta live with your answer. And there is no there is no wrong answer. It's just your opinion. Yeah. I can see the hearts flying up. I can see the engine guys throwing up the no. Michael Dozier: I'm sure. Corley: But without a doubt, brother, you absolutely crushed the five questions for firefighters. In your first visit, Derek DePount said Mike drop cap. Michael Dozier: He rides a couple by saying that Corley: Max points, max points. There's a lot of smashing going on without a doubt, brother. You absolutely crushed it. And that officially brings scrap number 247 and puts it in the books, brings it to a close. Captain Michael Dozier, thank you for being with us on this evening. If someone wants to get a hold of you, what's the best way to do so? Michael Dozier: Probably Facebook or Instagram, the company officer. I mean, I'm I'm I have a personal page on it. You feel free to add me. I'll probably accept it unless you look like a creeper or something. But you know, Facebook or Instagram, my my email is the the companyofficer. 1 at gmail. com. so email or just message me on Facebook is probably the easiest way.

Corley: Love it, man. Absolutely love it. Please, please, please reach out to him. Phenomenal classes that he teaches. Go to firehousevigilance. com. Vigilantes We are now officially on Patreon. We are we are transferred over. We are moving away from Facebook. So you can catch us on Patreon. It's a blast. There's videos every day. We're going to get another form on the books. I have to get it scheduled and I really, really need to. to another fireway on the books tons of discussion we are a group of like-minded souls if you're a vigilani you are never alone go become one today this crap after party which is something the vigilanis are a part of Michael Dozier has agreed to show up in the after party and be roasted for his performance on the scrap this evening. Which is a threat we always levy and never deliver on. So that's just the joke that keeps on giving. Next week, coming up on the scrap. Let me pull up the list. Next week it is Dennis Legier. He might be talking about that nozzle. He's been he's been talking about. There's a lot of lot of lot of talk around it, but not just that. Application of water, everything else Not just the nozzle, but so I mean anytime you talk to Dennis, you're gonna get hydraulics. I mean, plain and simple. Following that, Ryan Sellick, young officers on fire. His his work on decision making, his work on decision making under stress, man, it's gonna be a good discussion. And following Ryan Sellick, because Ryan Selleck was the only person who said, I'll do it. I'll go before Kurt. Why not? Cause 249 is Ryan Sellick and then 250 is Kurt. Kurt posted today. I don't I th How does Kurt talk? It's like biggest giveaway ever in the history of fire service, basically, on scrap 250. Never before been seen. Giving away tons of okay, that's my Kurt voice. but he's gonna be on 250 And we're going to absolutely try our best to crush and break the internet once again. So that's the next three. Following, like, who do you get to follow Kurt Isaacs? BJ Breacher said, no problem. I'll do it. And so it's going to be amazing. That's what's coming up. All that being said, 2024 is absolutely crushing it. We are in May.

Corley: I can't believe we're already in May. That blows my mind. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Michael Dozier, for being such an amazing guest. Thank you. Digilandys, Sam has already posted the links. Get into the after party. Dozier will be there Audience, every one of you, thank you for smashing the button. Thank you for scoring the max points. Thank you, most of all, for just tuning in and asking killer questions. From a phenomenal guest who absolutely crushed your killer questions. Without you, the scrap would just be me and Michael talking. And that's not near as cool as you guys being here. So I love you. I really do. You make the scrap magical. Remember. Mutts don't scrap. Speaker 4: I hope the tone stays silent unless it is burning. Everybody, stay safe out there