Weekly Scrap #321 - Brendan McDonough, holdfast & resilience

Corley: I get asked all the time, what is a vigilante? What does it mean to be a vigilante? And so to explain that, I'm just gonna kind of explain where the vigilantes came from. When I started the group, I honestly thought there was gonna be like 10 or 20 people who really liked the scrap. That would want to be part of the behind the scenes, helping pick out the guests and make the questions and things. And I'd never dreamed that the vigilantes would grow into what it has grown into. Over 700 like-minded souls If you're a vigilante, you are never alone. We have members from across the country. We have members from across the globe. And it's just amazing what it's become. If you're in there, then you get to be in the Discord, and the Discord is where we do all of our discussions and people go live and they talk and they ask questions and we have a channel for bitching and moaning for presenting classes. It's just it's amazing the fellowship that is involved in being a vigilante. And it's not just that, there's so many other benefits You get access to the Vigilante only swag shop. You get the 15% discount on all merch from Firehouse Vigilance. You get the after parties. You get the Vigilante get togethers when we're all at the same place and we get together and we raise a glass and do a toast and have the vigilante creed. You get the vigilante coin when you hit your one year anniversary with your number. The fireaways, the forums. the archives, all those quarterly projects that are coming that you get to be a part of and get to be behind the scenes on, it's grown into something bigger than I ever imagined And I want people to know about I want people to be a part of if you're not a vigilante, why not? I don't know, I don't know how how big it could be. I don't know. I mean the vigilante is are where the work is at. They're the ones who are getting stuff done And it's phenomenal to be a part of it. I wanted to get on here and explain where it started, how it how it came to be, and ask you if you're not a vigilante, why not? Go to Patreon.

Corley: That's where you sign up. It is $5 a month. I mean, it's you can't even get a cup of coffee for that anymore. Five bucks a month, and you get to be a part of this unbelievable group. Go to patreon. com Sign up, become a vigilante, and I will see you on the Discord. Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance. It is weekly scrap number 321. My guest tonight. is Brendan McDonough. He is the lone survivor of the Yarnail Heel fire tragedy where 19 Granite Mountain hotshots lost their lives. He carries their legacy forward as a firefighter, founder of Hold Fast Recovery, and co-founder of Anchor Point Recovery, sharing a story of faith, resilience, and turning pain into purpose. I am I have been looking forward to this conversation. It's been a work in progress to get Brendan to come on and I'm excited for the conversation and the questions from the audience. And Welcome, Brendan, to scrap number 321. My brother, Brendan McDonough. Brendan McDonough: Thank you, brother. Appreciate it, Corley. Yeah, super excited, man. It Even just the connection here of JK, right? he taught my one and two when I was 17. And I've looked up to that that man since then, you know, and there's there's so many other further connections through the honor guard and and so much that we'll get into. But yeah, super stoked on this.

Corley: No, and JK he's referencing Jeremiah King for those who are listening. And if you've been to conferences where he's attended, you know He's passionate and he's also the number two, if anybody ever wonders who the number two vigilante coin belongs to, it is his. And so he is number two. But all that being said, is there anything I missed in the intro, anything you want to add or or because it's it's very short and succinct, no doubt about it. Brendan McDonough: Yeah, I mean there's there's so much, you know, married, three beautiful kids. you know, sober. Sobriety, you know, been doing that for a little over eight years now. faith, you know, is massive for me. Relationship with God is is huge. You know, there's there's a long list to that to that that intro, but I think you know trying to keep it short and concise is is good, but definitely want to give, you know, shout out to those who love me and what's gotten me here. for sure. Corley: Right on. Right on. Audience, get your questions primed and ready for Brendan and myself. We are it's gonna it's gonna be interesting scrap and I I'm looking forward to it. Now let's talk about those beautiful sponsors And let's get that done so we can get to scrapping. When it comes to building your perfect attack package, you can't just slap any nozzle on any hose and hope for the best. That's a recipe for failure. com And I love new sponsors. And this one is Relentless Rescue Solutions. I got to meet these these guys at FDIC, and it was awesome. But it is a firefighter-owned startup with a patented rescue device designed to save lives. They need your support to bring the first Thomas Life capsules to the field, providing victims with unmatched thermal, toxicity, and transit protection. Join them on this life-saving mission. Learn more at relentless rescue. That's relentlessrsq. com and follow them at at relentless on at relentlessr sq On Instagram, Relentless Rescue Solutions, redefining rescue to save lives. And there we go. The sponsors are done. Brendan has been patient and we're ready to talk about it. And Man, I just want to kick it off and go right to getting back into the fire service at Prescott. and you you're about to complete. You tell me where you're at in the journey and kind of give me the give me the rundown because that's where I want to start this story.

Brendan McDonough: Yeah, yeah, I love it. for for so right now I'm sitting at nine months on probation. Okay. You know, God willing, I'll finish a year. keep being told I might So, you know, it's been it's been amazing. you know, looking at getting back in the fire service There was so much into it of mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally. You know, there's so many conversations. I I probably spent the better part of two years really looking at the pros and cons, preparing for it, trying to trying to make sure that it's exactly what I wanted to do and could do. And You know, a part of that is coming out of the tragedy, you know, it was a goal of mine to get back in the fire service. And mentally I I just wasn't there after that. And so you know, through building treatment centers, finding sobriety, finding faith, and and really a strong foundation in who I am. And, you know, couldn't have done it without a lot of a lot of people being an influence in that I was able to make a return to the fire service and a lot of that goes to who Prescott Fire is and the leadership and the the firefighters that are there, you know. a lot of conversations, a lot of oral board prep. you know, a lot of just deep insight within within myself. You know, back when that tragedy happened, one of the things that that kind of didn't sit well with me was I seen a psychiatrist and one of the statements was, hey, you know, not not fit for duty. And that kind of that kind of didn't sit well with me for quite a few years. And you know, as I was getting older and, you know, felt accomplished within starting whole fast recovery and being a part of another treatment center, I really started to look back of like, hey, what in life would I regret not doing? You know, I've been able to do a lot of things in my life, been able to speak on different platforms, share, share Christ, you know, been able to impact people's life within mental health and addiction. And the fire service kept kept ringing true of like, hey You know, I went through the academy at at 17 in in college, you know, right out of high school.

Brendan McDonough: It was something I talked to my superintendent, my captain about, you know that season in 2013 about you know progressing and taking steps towards it was something after the tragedy one of our now battalion chiefs heavily supported me in you know, getting back into the education piece that I needed. And so it felt like it felt like it was unfinished. You know, it's felt like something that that had a a deeper call to me. And that was a part of the new fire chief, you know, meeting with him and getting connected with him and Learning about his vision for the fire department and where he wanted to take it. And then, you know, over a year or two, really watching him execute those things that he said he wanted to do. and watching the members, you know, find excitement in that as well as, you know, just expansion right within our community that that's been long overdue, that the community supports and then they're 100% behind It's like, man, it is it is primed for for me personally what I saw as a really good career of of training, education, you know, the opportunity to move up and learn from some people that I highly respect. And so you know, been on for yeah, nine months. they they switch you at six months. So you're at one station on probation for six months and a and another for six and they have you know, probationary testing throughout that process like like many departments and you know had some some great great influencers and great crew members to be able to teach me that. And for me, it's been amazing being back in the fire service, but the personal connection, I I love connecting with people. I'm a I'm a people person. I'm very extroverted in in many ways and you know sometimes I have to be reminded when to shut up. That's probably been my probably my biggest struggle on probation, to be honest, is like Like I love to talk, I love to ask questions, I love to conversate and my my first captain, his his joke was like, hey, three a day, man Like that's what you got. You got three questions about well eat like I'd cook over those like easily. And that wasn't even training related. That was just like, hey, three questions outside of the fire department is what you got.

Brendan McDonough: And And he's joking, you know, but that was that was always kind of the the running joke and you know finding that balance, but it it's been great. That that captain, the first captain I had, I was sharing with you earlier, he was on the crew, you know, and he was He was there when the guys passed and, you know, he had his own his own journey through that. And, you know, he he unfortunately lost his nephew too. That was in the fire department as well later down the road. And so he has so much insight and knowledge into tragedy within the fire service that You know, it just it just happened too. It wasn't I mean it it was obviously intentional to put me there, but I think the deeper intentionality of the connection we had was very powerful. You know, my engineer was on the crew as well and he's been with the department for well over, you know, two decades. And so having that experience, my firefighter, I went to my senior guy went high school with him You know, and he had he has got a lot of experience was around for all this. And so to be able to have men in those seats, kind of guiding me and directing me was phenomenal. I felt very honored to to have them and you know, trying to figure out my way on probation. You know, it's it's it is a game. It it really is a game and you know It's something I had had to learn really quick and was told many different things and you really don't know what you're getting into you get on, right? You know, one time The engineer was trying to teach me something. He's like, hey, take a seat. And I and I went to go sit in the recliner. He's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, we don't do that. There's a chair over there. And I didn't even I didn't even think about it, right? And there's just those little little pieces of you know, being on probation and, you know, cleaning the table, right? But never grab a man's plate because he could take it to the the sink himself, you know, and I learned after asking two or three times, you know, that that that plate is his and he's taken to the sink and I'm not that's not mine to take, you know.

Brendan McDonough: And it it's been it's been amazing, you know. I've had so many moments of closure, to be honest, and so many Thoughts of what what if what could you know going back to the academy of like hey, what am I gonna do And our first live burn, you know? we do a wildfire class academy essentially within our our 15 week academy. It's like, what am I to do when we start talking about this and start having conversations and You know, we do a live burn. What is that going to feel like? And to have the men in place that were there during that time that had been so close to that tragedy too was something really special for me. you know, they even get emotional thinking about it, right? Of like trying to make those men and women proud, right? Of like, hey, that that's a that's a prescrit firefighter. That is someone that is, you know, experienced something And and I knew going back, I I looked at testing for different departments, you know. I did pros and cons and I and I felt like going back to Prescott was a going home. It's it's where I live, but B, where I would I wasn't gonna get any special treatment. Right. You know, I was gonna be treated just just as a recruit, just as a a proby. And you know the conversations may be different. Right. Just because of personal relationships, but you know, the the treatment was the same, I feel like. And that's what I wanted and that's what I asked for. And I felt like that's what I got. That's what you got. But you know, to be able to graduate that fire academy and have you know the training captain who I've looked up for a long time is kind of one of those guys in our fire department that you know a lot of people strive to be like You know, the the these he's a man a few words, but the few words of, hey, I'm proud of you after graduating like that. That hit me, you know, that that meant a lot. And one of my one of my brothers who passed away, Kevin Wojak, his dad was able to pin me for that. You know, we've built an amazing relationship since then And, you know, I was sharing with you earlier, Wade Parker, who passed away, his his little brother, he's a grown man now, his wife and multiple kids.

Brendan McDonough: And you know, he was in the academy with me and to go through that with them you know was something really special. And I think you know, not to not to isolate us within that group because there's some amazing men and women who are in that academy, but I think For those getting to instruct us too, I think they might have found some closure and peace and seeing us, you know, thriving. Right. Right. Thriving in something that, you know, in short, took so much from us. And it's been that journey, right? Of like, you know, getting back, I had to go get cleared by a psychiatrist. And I had to redig up a lot of stuff and talk with my old counselor. And, you know, to get that all clear was amazing. Corley: No, I can only imagine. Yeah. Because to go from that that not fit for duty that you said, you know, actually stung you wore pretty heavily, and then to get the all clear years later. No. Brendan McDonough: Yeah, it was it was something something special in you know talking with my wife of like, hey, how do you feel about this Like we had met after the the you know June 30th and so she has a different experience from that but she experienced a lot of you know the the darkest times I had, right? That we're gonna talk about in this of like, you know, what are her fears, what are her concerns. You know, and at the time my my daughter who is two who experienced this tragedy, she's This this gets me, you know, like she's 13. Already getting emotional. All right. And I and I gotta go I gotta go ask her, like, hey, are you okay with this? Right. Like Are you okay with, you know, yeah going back in the fire service? Is that does that sit well with you? And you know she you know she had a really healthy response and She's like, yeah, it does, but like, you know, the only thing is is like when you post pictures of me on social media, like my friends, you know, they see it because she didn't have social media at the time. And she's like, you gotta post better pictures And you know that was that was like after the whole long hour conversation we had.

Brendan McDonough: But then, you know, my my five-year-old son who hears about this tragedy but doesn't really understand or is is isn't getting it, you know, like him through this whole process, you know, trying to trying to comprehend it and wrap his mind around it of like He said something to me today, this last week, that was, you know, a a pretty big eye opener and he was like, you know, structure firefighting is is safer than wild-damn firefighting, right, Dad? And and You know, I I'm I'm trying to protect my six year old son, but I'm trying to be honest with them. Sure. You know, of like, hey, there are dangers and you know, we train hard and we we we We protect each other, we look after each other, and you know, we do put ourselves in dangerous situations, but at the end of the day, the job is is everyone goes home. And, you know, It's been all these emotions, right? Of like trying to figure that out. And I remember my first live burn, like that excitement came over, you know, like This this overwhelming feeling of like I am where I belong, you know. And it's not that anything I've done in the past wasn't where I should have been, but right in that moment, you know, I am exactly where I need to be. I'm exactly what I've prepared to be. I'm exactly where those around me who have supported me, poured into me, want to see me at. And I am, I am at that point of, you know Hey, I I can do this. Like there is and there's there's gonna be stuff, you know. I've had a a handful of calls over the last nine months that have been you know eye openers, right? One in one in particular. You know, there was a fatality fire that I was on and that was that was big. That was big for anyone on it, you know. And we we've done AARs after it and come to the conclusion of, you know, that the best job that could have been done was done. And, you know, talked with some peers, talked with my counselor. You know, I promised her and promised my family and those around me that if I go back, that You know, I will have regular check-ins with my counselor and make sure that, you know, I'm, you know, doing the right thing and leading by example too, you know, because it's this weird dichotomy of being on probation, but being you know, Brennan Donut McDonough, right?

Brendan McDonough: Of like, I want to practice what I preach and I want to I want to speak truth into the the lividity of mental health and what what we're facing. And It's been it's been amazing, you know. I love hearing that. I was sharing with you, you know, one moment that I didn't think was gonna happen as soon as it did was You know, during the tragedy, we had so many departments from all over the state come and backfill stations so our members could grieve, but but honestly, More I guess maybe more importantly at the time, the job at hand was to be there for the families. And so the members of our department were put in unique situations to be liaisons for 19 families you know, and one including myself and so 20 of them and funerals and you know that was a heavy process and that's something I share so much gratitude over. And was so impactful and blown away at how the fire service comes together of like they came in, they had, you know. a liaison for them and they they scanned their radios and they got set up and they ran calls in our community for for weeks on end and you know Two weeks ago I was able to reciprocate that with with Timber Mesa Fire Department. They had lost two, unfortunately, and tragically in a in a vehicle accident. And You know, some of our members were able to be up there to backfill, to be for Honor Watch, Honor Guard, and to see that come in in into play and to play a just a tiny role for that. you know, in running calls in their community to to to I don't want to say repay that debt because it's not even a debt. It's like The fire service is just done. It's just there. It just it just happens. There's no transaction. There's no it's just what is in us and what what we do. And it's ingrained in, you know, policy and procedure down to the core of our culture. Right. And I think that's something that, you know, is strengthen who I want to be in the fire service of, you know, and what people think of of me of like, you know, I want to keep that moving forward and I want to be a part of that.

Brendan McDonough: that that future. And so this this nine months has been absolutely awesome. I remember my first wildfire was Father's Day morning, 4 a. m. Right, you know, within five miles of the station. I got my captain who who at the time was running the wildland division, the portion of our our department. I've got a an engineer that, you know, was on a was on some cruise, did did some time. And so it was different. Not not digging line and running out hose, but now it's fired up, you know, laid out You know, nine feet of nine hundred feet of hose caught this thing, you know, before it spread into this community with with mutual aid and the the volunteer department that was up there and the Forest Service and getting to see people that I haven't seen in over a decade, you know, and getting to do it on the fire ground was was pretty phenomenal, you know, and it was it's it's it's just powerful to get to like regain a part of myself, you know, that I didn't get to choose when it stopped, right? And I get to do with people. that are that are helping me do that, right? And you know, it's well man, it's it it's like so fulfilling. You know, it's so I can't put it into words.

Corley: Your words are powerful, bro. They are. The failure of them almost is the power of it, because it it conveys the emotion of what you're talking about. Brendan McDonough: And the gravity of it. Yeah. Corley: Yeah. Brendan McDonough: It you know, getting the remember one of my first calls, you know, and I and I and I'm not a recognition guy, but like Some of the community saw me and I'm like caring, you know, carrying as much as I can out of the EMS cabinet, right? And we're going into a church and someone's like, hey Brennan, we are so proud of you, right? Like Go get them. You know, and it's like, man, I am I want that for every firefighter, you know, I want that for every person to feel that sense of accomplishment. But it's like, man, I am here to serve my community and I'm here to try and make a difference. you know, in someone's darkest moments. And it's been it's been so rad to get to to be a part of that. And, you know, there's there's just like a waterfall, a fire hydrant of information to learn, you know. And I never had any EMS experience and I was like, oh, I'll never do that, you know, and now I'm coming to love it and coming to, you know, just find a new sense of passion and purpose within this. is is pretty rad. So yeah, that's been that's been kind of like the last year, you know, September and even the graduation, you know, people that This is super cool. people that were there for the memorials for my brothers that I've built relationships with that we have stayed in contact with since Since then the guys from Milwaukee fire, Bruce Brown, Nebraska, Lincoln. I mean, there's people from all over the country, right? And but Matt Bryant, we've we've we've he's a captain of Milwaukee, and He showed up, man, with with Bruce Brown and a few others from from the crew that came down here. And they've been here for the five year, they've been here for the 10 year. You know, Matt's dying to move here and they were part of the the ceremony for my graduation. It's like, man, I feel so honored and sometimes undeserving of this this this love and compassion and my job is to try and like recirculate that, right?

Brendan McDonough: Give give that back in in into somebody else. And there's a million of those moments that have happened. over over the time that I've been back on the job that I you know I wish and I've been kind of keeping a mental note and I've been keeping you know like little notes of those things that happen like I wrote this this you know two page note in my iPhone on my first fire and like what it felt like to have my captain who was on the crew coming in on the truck, right? Like sitting back seat, getting dizzy. It's middle of night, two o'clock. I'm like trying to wake up, you know, and To hear, you know, the captain who was first in, who was on the crew, to hear his voice on the radio was like, man, this is This is time. Like it is time to get it. Like it is this is this is what I signed up for. This is, you know, these are the men that I want and women I want to be around. This is how I want to do the job. I want to perform to the highest that I can And I and I'm and I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna get everything I got and I got to, you know, go interior. We got to sp spray some water and couldn't see nothing. And I I say like my goal is to be like a well-trained Malinwall on the nozzle, right? Kyle Romagus, like, dude's a genius, right? Right on. And My caps just got me, you know, by my turnouts because I can't see anything. He's got the tick. He's like, here, here, here. And you know, that that that that's a rush, you know, that's that's a that's a rush. And Absolutely.

Corley: I wish I could convey that to everybody to write to write down those memories while they're fresh And and to keep I hope I hope you continue to do that. I but I I can't encourage everybody, everybody to do that because You'll you'll go you'll look back and A time flies, first of all, and then you'll look back and they will all blur. It will all blur, I promise you Brendan, I wanna there's a lot of there's some there's a few questions coming in from the audience, but I wanted to I wanted to broach something real quick, which is I think I hadn't thought about this until we started talking, is the audience is super respectful And you have a big, big long story. And we started with the current, but I basically if you could put down the the I don't want to say ground rules, but basically what's on limits, what's off limits of what you want to talk about, so they can ask their questions respectfully without having to guess. If that makes sense what I'm asking you Brendan McDonough: Yeah, no, I think I don't think there's any off-limits questions. I think for me is like when I when I do something like this, I just want to be intentional with that time of like the repetitive, right? Of like If you can if you can read about it or or watch about it, you know, and there's things, you know, you have to revisit and you have to talk about, but mental health, you know, not off Addiction not off. Any of that tragedy loss. It's it's not off. It's just it if I feel like I've answered it in depth, I'll even like, hey, if you check out this article or if you look at this, you can find absolutely

Corley: So I just wanted to give them some direction. I wanted to give them some direction so they could ask great questions and throw it at you. Are you ready for your first question from the audience? I am. Yep, I am. I like this from Scott Hoke. He says, Brendan, I am a recovering alcoholic, sober for two and a half years. Even still, it gets tough to stay sober at times. How do you stay on the line and not fall off that wagon? Brendan McDonough: Yeah, I think that that's a great question. For me, there's so much preparation that goes into it, right? It's it's For for me personally, that's that's a relationship with God that I have to stay in tune to, right? Within my faith and my prayer meditation. discipleship that's also, you know, I'm sitting here in my hands, I've got, which is which is wild, right? I've got my my two-year chip Right. And this is this is from Alcoholics Anonymous. I work a program of Alco Alcoholics Anonymous. I have a sponsor that I contact, you know, often. He probably wishes I called him more, but I go to meetings. I sponsor guys You know, I take them through the steps and I try to be of service within that community itself, right? We do a lot of service work, but it's just that continuous pursuit of trying to better myself. And so I surround myself with people that that A hold me accountable. That B no I can't drink. Like there's no There's no version of Brendan McDonough, Brendan James McDonough, Donut, you know, some people call me Bronut. Like there's no version of me that can have a sip of alcohol, right? Or or a substance, even even that in itself, right? I have a I have an addictive mindset that, you know, I can, you know, abuse caffeine if I choose to. you know, some people in the fire department It's it's it's it's sugar, right? Like, you know, there's having ice cream every night and there's having a tub of ice cream every night, right? And so there's this like and I've fallen into that, right? Of like, man, there's nothing like a good bowl of Bluebell, right? And but for me, it's staying in contact with those around me and just keeping that at the forefront of my mind of like, hey, what I have bought for And the damage it has caused, even, even though sometimes minimal, even, even in my alcoholism, I have some of the best memories.

Brendan McDonough: You know, it's not worth the dark times. It's not worth the disconnect that I feel. Right. And so for me addiction is a loss of connection and sobriety is connection. And I and I want connection. I need connection in my life. I think we're all designed you know, from a biblical standpoint, from a scientific standpoint, for connection, you know, pro-recreating, right? And in all these different things that are there, but that depth of the relationships that I want to have with my wife, my children, the the the men and women around me that I call family, that I love. And those that I'm trying to make an impact for is not worth one drink. And I know why I want to drink. I want to drink to self-destruct. And and the the disease of addiction, the devil, however you per say it or persuade it or put it, is is trying to convince me that if I join in Right, on having a drink, whether at home or with my peers, that I will then be connected. Right. And that is the myth for me, not for everyone, but for me myself. And so I have to constantly be reminded. And there's been tough times, man. There's been one of my best friends growing up, I went to his wedding, you know, and like All my boys are having drinks and you know, ones in the fire service, a few of them in the military, like, you know, you get that alpha type stuff going and like you you You want to be a part of that and they know and they support me in that and they, you know, have those those boundaries with me. And we're we're taking photos. And this was one of those kind of like I gotta readjust. one of those moments that that I that in hindsight I can look back on and that I'm grateful for of like We were taking pictures and the the photographers like, hey, let's hold up some bottles of booze and and and I'm like, hey, this is at my wedding. I'm not here to, you know People want to say, and I'm not going to hold anything, but if they want to hold something, and my buddy getting married was like, hey, you know, my friend's sober. you know, I'd rather not do that.

Brendan McDonough: And that was like Now I've surrounded myself with people and I told them I was like, hey, we can do the pictures. Like, no, I don't I don't want to. Right. You know, I I don't like we could still be us and have this photo without that. And, you know, those are the men and women I try and surround myself around that, you know, support that and understand, hey, if you want the best version of me, you know, not trying to, you know, burn the world down like it's it's not alcohol. You know, it's you're not gonna get a funnier version of donut being sober. You're just gonna get an angrier, you know, more depressed, more honestly violent person, you know, in in that's in that in that piece. And I've had to do the work to come to find that. And so keeping my coping skills and my mechanisms and ensuring that I'm talking about what I'm what I'm going through, you know, like that call I described earlier You know, there's a day or two that went by that I was like, ah, you know, our peer support reached out and I was like, yeah, man, I'm good. I'm processing it, you know, and I needed to have further conversation. with my sponsor, with my peers that were on that fire with, you know, my counselor to say, hey, am I processing this or am I just putting up a blinder to this? And she's like, no, no, you're doing great. And You know, I have those checks and balances in place. And when someone call comes to hold me accountable, you know, whether whether I need it or whether it's valid, I still take it to heart. And I I try and look at that and go, hey, is this something I really need to look at and work on? And so, you know, having fun. Being physically fit is is big, you know, spending time with my family, remembering why. You know, I can get caught in the busyness of life and it's like, man, I got sober to enjoy this, not to be so busy. I don't get to spend the time I want with people I love the most. Right on 'cause I could I could do that. I can get into that chaos. So I hope that answers that.

Brendan McDonough: I think it's a beautiful answer. Corley: No, and and what I think everything happens for a reason. And Scott Hoke said he had two and a half years sober. And then you held up your two-year coin. I mean, I like I said, that's that's that that's not an accident. So I think that's pretty damn cool. And congrats, Scott, on the two and a half years. Relentless Rescue. Yes. Relentless rescue solutions come at you with the next questions. do you have aspirations to become a company officer in the future? Do you feel like that position carries more weight in your mind based on your past and what you've been through? Brendan McDonough: That yeah, that's a two-part question. I do have those aspirations You know, I and I'm and I'm slowly chunking away out of them, out of them, at them. But but truthfully too is like one of the things I've been constantly reminded about is like I need to be focused on the position right in front of me. And it's this, it's just like balance, right? Of, hey, you know, master the position that you're in right now, but also learn the one above you. And so, you know, for me, company officer is is definitely something that I see down the road and in taking the right process and steps to get there. And that's getting feedback from others of hey, you know, what do you think this looks like for me? What's a good path? I kind of had a similar conversation with my old captain who's now my battalion chief and my now captain within the last week of like, hey, you know, once I'm off probation, there there's some things that I'd like to accomplish. And what do you think would be beneficial out of these classes to take? And what is, you know, what it where can I be utilized within a department too? I have this idea of white, what might be helpful and they might have a different idea of like, hey, we could use somebody in this area. And so I I keep that open mind. And so there's definitely that that aspiration to move up and to promote, you know, for for me the right reason and I and most people do, but I I want to earn that position. I think you earn that through your peers and I think you earn that through you know, mastering the craft and remaining teachable and also a constant pursuit of knowledge.

Brendan McDonough: Love it. And the second question of Does it carry weight because of my past? Was that kind of a roughly yeah? Corley: Does it do you feel like it carries more weight in your mind because of of your you know everything, the tragedy and everything you've been through? Brendan McDonough: I'd be lying if I said it didn't, right? But I but I feel like I have to keep a healthy balance with that because that can play a role in my thought process, in my thinking. And so there has to be this respect with, you know, Moving up even in the position I'm in today, there has to be that understanding and that relationship with the past that you know, and I guess what I'm getting at there is It was it was over a decade ago that I had that fire experience, just from a peer experience standpoint. And so there's some things that I'm relearning how to do, but also I am brand new to the structure world I am a a a true probationary firefighter. You're a nine-month firefighter. Yeah, there is no, you know, prior experience within that realm. I have experience in decision making, you know, from a business perspective. I have a lot of mental health experience of running a facility and you know, that kind of thing, but from the decision making that is within the fire service, it's it's very unique. And, you know, I think I bring a lot of attributes to that in how I think things through, but You know, it does carry weight because there's a lot of people that want to see me succeed, you know, and I'm very grateful for that. And so I have to be very mindful of you know, how far I I push and how hard I push, you know, for certain things because I can I can get caught in overdoing it, right? Or getting too far ahead of the the the goal, right? Where I'm missing what's right in front of me. And so I think I kind of answered that question. Oh no, you know, I think it's a beautiful answer.

Corley: Very self-reflective and very honest. So yeah, absolutely answered it beautifully. And thank you for the question. Coming at you. Well, if I don't mess up the notes here, that Sam's being awesome and pulling out from you guys. Sam is always watching. He's always grabbing your questions. Get your questions in if you want Brendan to answer them. And he gave you the guidelines, so get them in. Kevin Brown wants to know, we struggle to bolster our local peer support program. What words of advice do you have that we can share with our members to break down the stigma of seeking help from local peers and or clinicians? Brendan McDonough: Yeah, that's that's a solid question. And I'll answer that in two parts personally, in that what I've seen other departments do. Personally, how do you bolster your peer support team? I th you find members that are passionate about it and sometimes that's tough to do. And you find members that have been through it and you you try and really give them that platform and that confidence in Hey, you might see it as just going to counseling or just, you know, processing something, but but to the next guy, it is it is completely unfathomable. Like after the tragedy for me, they'd signed a workman's comm guy to me. And by the second session, I was like, hey, dude, because you'd come to my house. I was like, you gotta go. He's like, oh, are we done, man? I'm like, we're done for good. Like, I don't want to talk to you. I don't want to, you know, have these kind of conversations. You know, I'm not, I'm not here to Read a poem, you know, like I I I don't know how that's gonna help me right now. And for me, it was two years after that I actually sought help, right, through through therapy, and that was like my rock bottom of like, man, I'm I'm not killing myself or I'm gonna end up dying due to this alcoholism, you know? and so I think finding people that are willing to share and be open about that is is so important. You know, I there there is an amazing movement happening in the fire service and peer support is is behind that in my personal opinion. There is nothing more valid than a peer talking to a peer, right?

Brendan McDonough: Someone who's been through it, someone who knows and and can have that conversation. I think we we also complicate what a we can complicate in our head what a peer is. A peer isn't a counselor, they're not a psychiatrist, they're not, they're not a savior, they're not God, they're not your wife, they're not my sponsor. A peer is a peer, right? It's just an open conversation. And I think starting with that, and it's a resource, right? Of like, hey, you know, How do we how do we talk about this? How do we have these conversations? I think you just talk about it. You encourage those guys who have been through it to share that at the dinner table, right? Where's some of the most productive And also a wild conversation happened right right there at the dinner table. And I've been fortunate enough within, you know, my department that quite often that that's a conversation is mental health, you know? In our news and notes, you know, for for our shift and and for other shifts. There's our chiefs put something in there. Hey, if you ever need anything, feel free to reach out, you know, and you know, feel It's just building that normalcy around it and and encouraging it, but also not forcing it. You know, when someone's ready, they're ready. that's that's my personal opinion. What I've seen other departments do, you know, I've been fortunate enough to do do quite a bit with LA County's peer support team. I've been able to speak for them a few times and speak with them and Close friend of mine, Scott Ross, you know, managed that for many years, is is now since retired, is a lot of apartments will go to those peer support leaders and ask them for that advice. and how to really create this from not only a policy and procedure standpoint, but get buy-in from SLT and, you know, the city or the district. And then that trickles down in the members too, as well as like, hey, if we get support from above for this, that that's a good thing. You know, they want to see it, they're going to support it But if you can find one or two people that are passionate about it and and start having conversations, you know, that's kind of the way it started for me is I You know, and whoever that is, feel free to reach out and if we could do a zoom and I'll, you know, come come talk with your guys about peer support and what it's done for me personally and how it's helped me and how You know, from June 30th, 2013, I I still keep in contact with a lot of those peer support members.

Brendan McDonough: I got to see one of them in Timber Mesa. You know, he was the BC that was filling in. Like those those connections are deep. And they they last long. And so, you know, reaching out to other resources and and finding that That kind of model. There's definitely a model there. I think the union presents that model. They have a class that I think is awesome. I was able to go through that in Santa Rosa back, I think it was 2015 maybe. And a lot of value. That shows interest, you know, and I think the more that you have some of these tabletop conversations, it'll it'll grow organically. And don't be afraid to reach out and ask people. You know, I think other peer teams love supporting. I've never seen a peer team be like, ah, no, we can't, no, we're we're here for each other. That's what that's what we do and show up and sparking interest in whatever way you can. You know, sometimes it's a challenge. Sometimes it's a fitness challenge that's geared around mental health. You know, how do you you know you want to call it a bait and switch i i don't know you know sometimes i've used that i'm like hey you want to go grab lunch and i know i need to i know someone needs to open up right and right And I'm just like, hey, how's how's the family? How's life going? And you start asking certain questions and people get around to, you know, they'll open up eventually and then reaching out to your local professionals. And vetting them is big, you know, making sure that you have people that are, you know, at least culturally competent in what we do and what the job is and what we see. You know, because I have heard stories of guys going in with clinicians and like You know, the clinician's crying more than the firefighter is sharing about what's going on. And you know, one one of my buddies was like, well, do do I pay you or do you pay me? Because how did this work? You know, being able to have those vetted resources is big because the the moment they reach out, I I will leave it with this within any mental health. The moment someone reaches out, you have to strike in.

Brendan McDonough: That is a moment of opportunity. The time does not wait. You know, what I've learned with running a treatment center, I answered thousands of calls for people calling in to get help. If you don't strike when the iron is hot, that momentum's lost, the questions come in and and and things happen. And so you know taking that opportunity and it's okay to say, hey, I don't know, but I'll help you find out Right. We're super resourceful. We're really good at figuring stuff out and you know, rely on some of those bigger departments in the area that may have a team to come in and to help kind of expand that. Corley: Boom. Great question. Great answer. And thanks for breaking it down into the two-part and hitting both angles, brother. I really do appreciate it. And a ton of value in that. Jeremy Hump. Humphrey, the hump, he has a question and he says, in your opinion, what is the most misunderstood part of a firefighter's mental health struggles? Brendan McDonough: That's a that's a great question. and so I probably should have said this in the beginning. Everything I say is opinion of myself. Sure. It's not an opinion of my fire department. It's not an opinion even of my businesses. It it's an opinion of Bernie McDonough. And I try and clarify, you know, what what that is. And so What is the biggest misconception in firefighter mental health? My What I would say statistically is the alarming rate we are suffering from PTSD, right? And how that is resolved. And so the misconception for the community would be that you know, the part of the job is dangerous, but they see us in different avenues, right? I think one of the biggest things every department faces is like when we're at the grocery store. you know once in a blue moon you're gonna get that one person that's like hey are we paying for you to be here right and that's that's a valid question right that's a that's a valid question and and so you know and With that, some people don't they don't see what everything we go through and the cumulative post-traumatic incidences, however you want to say it, PTSD, PTSI. Sure. I know a lot of people choose words and I just, you know, try and not think too hard. so that's for me from a statistic standpoint, I think I think that's out there.

Brendan McDonough: I think The numbers are a little low for what we go through. Corley: like the report is lower than what we're doing. Brendan McDonough: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's higher and I think that's only because we're still breaking down that stigma. I think they're really accurate though. I think they're well within reason. I don't think it's like egregious or anything. I think there's just certain people that may not even may not even understand what that is. And they may think that something super traumatic isn't that, right? But For me, a a PTSD incident is something that's reoccurring thought, right? So that could be a call that just reoccurs, right? and I know some people might think, well, that's diminishing what the traumatic stuff is. And And I and I get that, but for the way that we treat that, it's it's the same, right? What's traumatic to you may not be traumatic to me, and what's traumatic to me may not be traumatic to you. And so it's that individual basis of understanding. So I think we're doing an amazing job at educating people of what mental health is. What I've, and this is prior to entering the fire service is One of the big parts of that for me, and it's a and it's a really tough line to to border for me, is alcohol use. I think alcohol use in the fire service is not statistically where it where it could be. And I think a lot of people use it as a coping skill. Sure. And I think there's a healthy amount of people that can drink too. Like I'm not here to change the world and everyone to be sober. That's not that's not my intention, but those who who need it, you know, I I believe you know could could really benefit from it. And I think when you break down a lot of the issues we we deal with within the fire service, the calls are the most upfront and in our face. But I think the marital, the alcohol, the minutiae of working at a department, you know, I, you know, no department's perfect and everyone has its issues. And so I think people You know, a lot of what I see when guys come into our program is they have a handful of calls that they really struggle with and, you know, EMDR or polyvagal theory or talk therapy or you know we have a multitude ketamine therapy a multitude of things to be able to address those sure but behind that is the the carnage of you know, some people putting this job first and above their family 100%, right?

Brendan McDonough: And there's this wreckage of the past of this tornado of super firefighter that you know, misses stuff and brings home that stress and you know that ends up getting taken out on their family, which isn't duly placed, right? Sure, sure. And that creates marriage tension and and more so I would say the micro and the macro the macro is the the horrific things we see and experience. Right. Corley: The big calls that everybody can point at. Brendan McDonough: Yeah. They can specifically go to to hey this this drowning, right? This peeds call, this car wreck, you know, this family member or friend I ran on. You know, we all, we all, everyone has them. Right. Right? this tragedy fire. You you can s you can start there the loss of a a a fellow firefighter, you know, but the micro of the everyday, you know, the sleep patterns, right? Corley: No, organizational betrayal and the psychological safety of the organization, the politics, the ego. Brendan McDonough: Yeah. Corley: Yeah. Brendan McDonough: I haven't faced that, you know, and our our department's really healthy, but I but I hear about it, right? And I and I see it and it's out there. And there's so much of that that is that is the micro is building and it's compounding in in multiple areas that, you know, and I've And we're addressing it. I see it being addressed. The Center for Excellence. I see it within peer teams. You know, the conversations are becoming much deeper than just those Mac macro calls. Right. And what I'm really encouraged about and I'm really excited about is starting to address some of those other issues that really have a massive role in who we are as a person. Right on. You know, like we're able we're able to stuff that traumatic stuff down pretty good. Like we're we're pretty good at it, right? Until we're not. And then it's all help breaks loose. But the the micro of the things that you just talked about, the portrayal and the stuff that people experience and The marital tension, you know, the missing of events, the lack of sleep, the, you know, ran on somebody 20 times and you're trying to have that that sympathy and empathy for them. And the solution isn't there for for whatever reason. And you're trying to navigate that with them, you know, on the 30 minutes you have with that patient, right?

Brendan McDonough: You know, I think of like a lot of the mental health calls. you know, it it it's tough because someone's in crisis and like we show up and we we we do our thing, you know, and Our department does a really good job of crawling the crisis line. They get people act or with different services that'll respond to that and you know they'll I've had captains that have called the hospital saying, Hey, do you guys have a social work on hand that can meet with them for, you know, services further more than that? But there's there's a lot of that gets put into play. for people that I don't think is, you know, seen as an issue. Sure. Like we just kind of sweep it under and it's like, oh, that's just a It's a stub toe, right? But if you stub that toe enough, it's gonna break. It's gonna get infected. It's gonna fester. And that's something that I'm really looking forward to that is being addressed, but but on a massive level of like, hey, we're the attention to the extra. Corley: Or not focus on it, but acknowledge that it exists. Brendan McDonough: Yeah, I'm seeing more and more firefighters get sober. I'm seeing more and more firefighters talk about their marriage struggles. I'm seeing more and more guys get open about, you know, the struggles of being a father, you know, those those things that you know, sometimes we don't discuss or talk about or are out there in the forefront. It's it's really encouraging for me. And so you know, long-winded answer all over the place. But right for scrap.

Corley: That's what we do. Brendan McDonough: Yeah, it it's it's those things that I am just very, very in tune with myself personally, at least try to be, but also love to share about because You know, for me, I, you know, I go to a marriage counselor quarterly. You know, me and my wife, we check in, we have these conversations. I'm trying to improve my communication skills, and it's only making me a more effective firefighter. when I'm able to not bring work home and not bring home to work, right? And it's not that I shut this wall, it's that I'm resolving these things, whatever they may be, so that these stressors are alleviated so that I'm in the best thought process possible. And I think everyone in this job deserves that, right? That goes into that company officer making those those decisions is, you know, ain't all of us down to the firefighter level the the more stress that we can alleve going on to the job, the better decision making is going to be. Right on. You know, and everyone's stress is different. Right. I was talking with a buddy of mine today of like I was like, hey man, what he was stressed about a speeding ticket. He got speeding tickets, first one in like 10 years.

Corley: Okay. Brendan McDonough: I'm like, dude, and and for him, it it's Like and I've never seen this guy runs multiple businesses, like takes care of his family, stand up astounding citizen, right? Like haven't ever seen him stressed in 10 years, but like his personal duty to be a good upstanding citizen, that's what hurt in that moment of getting that speeding ticket. For me, I'd have been like, ah, it's a ticket, you know, whatever. But we're all unique in what what really drives us, right? deeper into how our our neural network works, you know, of like his past was he did some time You know, and so his future is having any interaction with the law being of the utmost of him, being a citizen that is giving back. And I've watched him do it for 12 years, being an amazing man, you know, dedicate his life to helping others, to helping his family, being a great father, being a great community member. And so like we all to say all that, we all suffer differently And that that stuff carries into our day. And so how do we how do we make that a common conversation of like, you know, maybe it's little, maybe it appears to be little, but It may be big for that person for whatever reason our brain we don't get to choose how our brain stores that. You know, there could be childhood trauma related to it. There could be Trauma of the past, there could be neglect, there could be whatever related to it that brings something simple to today that'd be like, why am I why am I stressing over this? You know, and so I think having those conversations and opening it further than just traumatic calls, which is happening, is great in a an amazing direction that we're going in, you know, with sleep studies that are coming out and The physical side of it too is massive. It all combines together of of how well we operate and you know how well we're in tune with you know, the job of like a a car. You know, the car has multiple fluids in it. It's multiple gears, multiple parts, components, the same as we do, and we have to you know, from a clinical side, the biopsychosocial model of looking at everything, finances, marriage, spirituality, you know, trauma, past trauma.

Brendan McDonough: Gifts, talents, right? Stress. Yeah. It it just compounds. Yeah. Corley: This is holistic, holistic, you know, it's just one part being out of whack compounds any other part as it as it feeds on itself and gets more and more, I don't know a more clinical term than out of whack. Brendan McDonough: Yeah. There's one little last piece I'll share on this. A bunch of questions, bunch of but we have 400 billion microbiomes in our stomach, right? And in what we eat and what we put on our body, there's more power speaking from our gut to our brain than our brain to our gut, on mentally and physically how we feel. Right, so nutrition is in this conversation of like what you put in dramatically and drastically impacts how you feel. And depending on your gene type and how you process, you know, vitamin A, or if you can, or if you got to take a supplement to process that, or if you're not digesting it through nutrition. It's crazy how that impacts your mood. You know, there's studies and it and it's wild that they're doing fecal transplant And I know it's because I have an autistic daughter and it's with an autism and depression of like they have a unhealthy gut and they're there's people that take little pills, right? that are healthy poop, essentially. Right. That heals their stomach in is in his, you know, for certain kids becoming verbal or certain adults their depression is clinically treatable that a medication couldn't touch. And so there's that one little piece of nutrition that plays this massive role that I think the fire service is starting to explore. And that is that is powerful, right? Of like, hey, it's not just stress that gives us heart attack. And it's not just eating bad food. It's the marriage of things that we deal with and go through and have in life that that contributes to that. So yeah, 20 minute answer for a one minute question.

Corley: No, it's a hey, brother. That's what the scrap is all about. Rabbit trails and rabbit holes and deep dives. And it was a beautiful answer. So do not sell yourself short. my man McGinn coming at you says, do you see it harder for firefighters to talk about PTSD? Because normally, traditionally it's associated with the military and war and that kind of thing. Brendan McDonough: Yeah. So personal experience, like when when that tragedy happened, like someone was like, hey man, you might have PTSD. I'm like, dude, that's for our soldiers. Like don't even Come on. I grew up next to Camp Pendleton when 9-11 happened. I was a young kid in elementary school. I watched men and women go overseas. I watched friends lose their fathers and their mothers. And I watched Caskets come home and like that was that was not something I was gonna identify with, right? Right. Until I was encroached into that veteran community and in Clint Bruce, he's a he's a Navy SEAL. amazing man, amazing father, one of my one of my best mentors in my life. You know, did did did a lot of things in the SEAL program. Was a his great fame he was Ray Lewis's backup for the Ravens. He's like, I'm gonna go to SEAL teams, right? Playing in the NFL, built amazing nonprofits that have raised millions for first responders veterans. Like just a just one of those guys to me that I'm like, man, I want to be like him. Right.

Corley: Right. Brendan McDonough: And he was like, hey dude, I I think you might be a little messed up. You know, after and I'm like, what are you talking about? He's like, you might have and he's from Texas. He's like, you may have some of the PTSDs, you know, and I'm like That's for you guys. He's like, I think you pretty much earned that one. And that that was a big eye opener for me. Sure. And that was a big moment. Funny, funny story. you know, got to meet a former president and it was in Texas and Clint was there and Clint knew him through through this guy knows everybody. Is and he's telling him my story and he's like, yeah, I remember that. He's like, you doing all right? And he was like, yeah, he he's good. He's he's one of us. He's got the PTSD, you know, and it's just having that common conversation about it. of of like not making fun of it, but just normalizing that it's okay to have these things. It's it's it's okay that no one in this world is gonna go untouched. Right? Fire service, police, veterans, civilians, no one goes to this world untouched of mental health. It is impossible. We are not designed that way. We are too humane. We have too many feelings and emotions. My personal opinion, design from God is we're we're supposed to have those. And so, you know, when I First spoke, it was in California and it was it was a conference and there was multitude of things going on, but one of them was a mental health topic, and I remember seeing like maybe 20 or 30 people in the room. And we're having this conversation and there's people that were sent there that probably you know, were sent to be a liaison to be there that were like, I want to be in this, right? Sure, sure. And there's people that wanted to be there and you know, all walks alive. And then to go there five years later and to see some of the biggest chiefs in our country present, right? Like LA County, LA City, San Francisco, Sacramento, San Diego, to see them present and in in tune and phones down. watching this, the culture has shifted, right? And it's it's I don't think anyone in the fire service can deny that PTSD is a thing.

Brendan McDonough: Now we are looking at how are we treating it and what is working best. And that's what we're figuring out with peer support, right? You know, different centers across the country that complete different niches, right? as well as a lot of departments starting to take over their EAP, you know, in in a sense, right? They're working with clinicians that now run their EAP. So they have competent clinicians that are there that are advocating for those things. And you know, one of the big bills in 2015 Arizona was the tiger act of you know, first responder that we lost. And so now if you have a if you can tie a traumatic call to something, you get instantly, I think it's like five or ten sessions. So if you can say, hey, this is the call, I need to see a clinician, you go see a clinician. No questions asked, it's paid for. And that movement is happening. And it's it's this scary topic that's out there, but also Now is that on a state level that that that that occurred, the tiger? That's on a state level of Arizona. Corley: Yep. Brendan McDonough: And I know other states are trying to implement simpler things and similar things. And I know like California, they're big on right now of peer support protection. of like what say like almost HIPAA within peer support, right? And so these these movements are happening to really solidify this this This admission of struggling for protection, right? Of hey, the fear was if I admit this, then I'm gonna lose my job, right? And I would say, fortunately for me, You know, I've ran into a lot of firefighters that have been at great departments that they're supportive of them going and getting treatment or going and getting counseling. And I don't sure there's some out there that have some some differences, but I think in general that the needle is moving towards the right direction. And I don't think it's not that we wear it as a badge of honor. You know, I think some some guys can get into that of sure of that. That becomes a part of their identity. Right. Right. And I think that is that can be detrimental.

Corley: Detrimental to others too. Yeah, absolutely. Brendan McDonough: Yeah, that's all you identify, right? Is like, you know, the identifiers in my life are the the best things, and a part of that is, you know, I have PTSD, I'm an alcoholic, I'm in recovery, you know, and so there's this this identity that's there. And so I think there's this this balance of pushing for it, but also having this understanding of like, hey, this is just a PTSD is just a starting point. Like that term is the worst it has gotten for you. And the goal is to move that mark to post-traumatic growth. Right? Or to recovery or to you know an awakening, however people put that. So that's just a benchmark of where we begin, not where we end. Corley: Right on. Brendan McDonough: Right. And so I think that's something that's that's tough for people of like, man, I'm gonna have to identify with this for the rest of my life. And I get it. When I was You know, two weeks before counseling, a gun in my mouth, right? Like ready to pull the trigger, screaming, like do it, do it, do it. You know, and thank God I didn't. I didn't think my life was gonna get any better. I thought the nightmares would never stop, the anxiety would never go away, the fear would never be there, all I was gonna be was was this this Mentally ill person, right? That was the thought that I had. And in through counseling and through with my peers and people speaking into me, you know, that is far from the truth. Like I'm so distant from that diagnosis even, you know, and that diagnosis carried into me getting hired. That's there. It's it's not going anywhere, right?

Speaker 4: Right. Brendan McDonough: But that and it comes into play, right? They, you know HR leadership, they have to make decisions. And but but the growth that shows, right, is that we can change, we can overcome this. And doesn't mean we still don't have our struggles But if we make that our entire reality, then that's what it becomes. And for people that are caught in that cycle, I I understand. And it's scary and it is so far off to see any light, right? And what I would say is don't quit, you're needed. You know, and I couldn't see it in that moment But I just had to listen to that from other people saying, like, hey, you have value, you have something to offer. And I'm like, you what? What do I have to offer to the world is this broken man? Because I have this PTSD, right? what what we what I you don't get to see until you feel it, right? I didn't I didn't get to feel the relief till one of my first counseling sessions and had an epiphany of this massive amount of survivors guilt that I felt. of essentially we're doing EMDR. I'm gonna go down and this is what the scrap's about, right? Is yeah I got these buzzers in my hand and I'm like, yeah, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, you know, counseling, counseling. counseling, whatever, you know, I'm 24, I'm full of full of vinegar, full of testosterone and ego. And the counselor, she looks at me and we've built enough rapport. She's like, hey, do you do you want to get better? Cause like you have to give me something. Like you have to work through this. Like there's no way around this. There isn't You know, in my mind, this is how I heard it. She didn't say this, but like this is not monopoly. Like you don't get to skip jail and collect two hundred and go. Like that's not it. Like You have to talk about this and process it to feel the relief that you want, to be the man that you say that you want to be. You know, she said that she said you want to be a better father. we we have to go through this right so i'm like all right cool you're gonna get it like you're getting these you know this this ptsd trauma whatever And through that, I'm telling her about Yarnell, the tragedy, I'm like letting her have it in short, in a respectful way, but like expressing this in She she looks at me and she goes, Hey, you know, how much did you believe in your captain superintendents?

Brendan McDonough: 100%. She's like, if you were up on the hill, would you have followed him down? Yeah, everyone else did. That's what everyone thought the decision, best decision at the time was. Yeah. She's like, well then why? Oh, the next question she said, would you and this is culturally competent, right? This her son was in the military and he had trauma and she knew. She was like, would you ever disobey an order? And I was like, no, like, unless it was life. No, she's like, well, didn't you say you were ordered to leave your lookout spot? And I'm and I'm like, oh my God. Like, I don't know why, but that was the moment for me that I was like. Finding clarity in. I didn't choose to live. That choice was made for me by my superior. Right? And so for me to sit here and say, I wish I'd have been with them, you know, or I wish I would have died instead of them. You know, if you watch the movie, there's a scene where I almost get caught. Like I wish that moment would have been I died, and maybe that would have changed their trajectory. That's the reoccurring in my head for two years, right? And it was in that moment that like that was a decision made above me and beyond me. I didn't get to I that was not my choice to make. You know? And it Anyone could have told me that. I had been told a thousand times, you know, millions of times, you were meant to live. That's just what happened that day. And I couldn't comprehend it. And I couldn't feel I couldn't shake the feeling of I wanted to be there with them. Right. I I couldn't. You know, looking at my three, four-year-old daughter, my fiance. our my other daughter, you know, I I I couldn't shake that. And in that moment, that that was shooking for me. And that is that that growth and that freedom that is within there that like You know, yeah, I may have this this diagnosis, but this isn't what defines me in the future. I don't have to attach myself to this term. in this point in my life when I found closure in it. It's like, you know, in the rooms of AA, you know, oh, I'm an alcoholic.

Brendan McDonough: And some people, that's that's how that's what works for them. For me, I'm I'm in recovery. You know, I don't forget that I still have this issue that I need to work on, right? And if I don't do maintenance on those traumatic things, and if I don't do upkeep, the same as I do with my vehicles, the same as I do with my house, then yeah, it can rear its ugly head. But I'm not in that state anymore. I'm that's not that's not me. That's not Brenda McDonough of 2025. It's not me of 2024. It's not me when I left that counseling room. You know, when I and that is what I hope people can find is encouragement and, you know, hey, that's just the start line. And the start line's pretty muddy and it's pretty ugly, but it, you know, the finish is beautiful. You know, the the finish is the piece that we didn't see. And I even through that process, I didn't think life would get as good as it is today. I didn't I didn't think I'd be able to live life like this. I didn't think I could be in crowds. I didn't think I could take my family to Disneyland And be okay. I didn't think I could be next to a fire. I didn't think I could eat red meat again, man. Like those things that impacted me, you know, and I seen and witnessed, like, it it effed me up, right? And I I didn't think that was possible. I don't think I'd be able to be a good husband or good father, you know, and I'm still flawed. I'm still human, but like I have by far surpassed who I ever thought I could be. And so I've stopped putting a box or a limit in who Brennan is. I don't I don't want to do that. I don't want to limit a God that I believe in who can perform miracles and is all knowing, all powerful, all loving, you know, and has redeemed my life and turned a a wretched mess into something, you know, which I think and my family thinks is pretty cool.

Corley: You know? Brendan McDonough: Right on. You know, I don't want to put that in a box anymore. And so yeah, that's that's something, you know, if I had a list of a hundred things I identify, it's on there, but it's way down at the bottom, you know, and it's just a just another reminder Of what is true, right? Is that there is hope out there. And I've seen other people do it. And that's that's what made it for me. Was like I watched other people talk to me you know, in the fire service in in the military that said, hey, this is possible, man. But it's your choice. You know, and some people Don't some people it's a different path, some people it's longer, shorter, some people don't come unscathed. You know, some there are things that will stick, right? There is some anxiety, there is some depression that does stick with people, sure, but it's that that constant maintenance. So I don't want to take away and I don't want to paint a picture of like, oh, my life's perfect, but it's at a point that I can choose what I do now. If I want to choose and sit and be in that negative moment, that's a conscious choice for me, not for everyone, but I have the ability and the tools and the wherewithal and the people around me that I don't have to

Corley: You had the growth the way you can achieve. Yeah. Brendan McDonough: Yeah. And and it's and it's being found in the fire service. Because I I've got a guy that went through our program. He was he's a firefighter within Arizona. Can't share his name, HIPAA, right? He probably wouldn't care. But you know, he's now becoming a clinician. He's gonna retire a clinician as a firefighter. Who is sober, who has walked through it, who has had the micro, the macro, and is and is out there chasing What I'm trying to chase is is sharing this with other people because I don't want to see another person die. Right? I don't I don't want to I don't want that number, that statistic for suicide to rise in the fire service. I want to see it drop. I want to get it to zero. I want you know, divorce rates to get to zero. I want financial issues to get to zero. I want, you know, I want those things to to to go down. And I I have to share that. I have to talk about it. I gotta Be vulnerable. I gotta share the the shit that bothered me, that haunted me, that, you know, waking up in the middle of the night screaming, you know, my wife wondering if I'm gonna hit her because I'm just Right in some kind like that that's gone. That's not there anymore. That's all. You know, I got a CPAP machine, dude. I sleep well most of the time. You know, like in in in Yeah, up because there's a million other questions.

Corley: No no brother, believe me, the value you brought with the vulnerability and the honesty is unbelievable. And I mean, there's already like Hump even said he's going to take this scrap and send it to his entire state peer support team and and get it out to everyone. I hope everybody does, anybody who has a connection, get it out there and spread the message because it's powerful. I'm going to shift on you and go to some other questions here. Jesse Ryber wants to know, is there any chance you will write a follow-up book about your new chapter? Brendan McDonough: There's there's been a lot of thought about it. And for me, you know, the timing of the book was what like the mainstream wanted, if that makes sense. Like what the publishing. And I wanted that to extent I wanted that. I remember Gosh, I don't want to give another long answer. Go. Corley: Hey, this is a scrap, brother. Don't worry about that. Brendan McDonough: Yeah. You know, when the when the original book came out and the original movie idea came out, I reached out to Marcus Latrell, Lone Survivor. And because he had just written a book and just movie premiered, right? I sent him a message and for a while nothing came back and I was like, this guy's super busy. It was to one of his team members. And they got back with me like, hey, we are so sorry. We've been meaning to connect with you outside of your message. We are going to find a way to get a hold of you. We'll be in Phoenix. And so, anyways. Long story short, got to meet him. He put me in touch with Clint Bruce, and I had a conversation with Marcus as he said, hey man, you know, this is this is heavy, but In short, like it is your job. Like someone else is either gonna write it, someone else is either gonna make the movie. I didn't want to do it. I was like, man, I don't I don't want to do this. He's like, all you're gonna be doing is a disservice to honoring your brothers. And I was like, all right, done. You know, so in that moment, that's the book that was written, and I was just finding counseling and sobriety as we wrap that book up. You know, and so I gave the writer like six or four months out of a nine-month counseling stent, essentially.

Brendan McDonough: I said, hey, if there's anything in here you want to use, feel free. Every counseling note, like every detail, right? And it it didn't, it wasn't able to make it in there as much as I would have liked. And so I feel like I'm at a time in my life in the next few years that I feel like a follow-up would be good. and it's just finding the right timing and the energy and the I need a ghostwriter. I I can't, you know, that that's that's a lot for me to sit there and up to ADHD. like it really is. Yeah, and medication like is not good good either for me. So it is it's something that I've talked about it. There's been some ideas thrown around, you know, been approached by a few different people. And I think now I have enough to share to really give a lot of depth into something that people, it would be worth them purchasing, you know, and reading to where it would be Like we talked about earlier, I don't want to I want to honor my brothers, but I also don't want to be repetitive in something and I want to bring them forward with that and honor them. but also give light into, you know, what I've learned over the last, you know, a little over a decade of this process. And so there's a few people that have reached out for documentaries, you know, some some people out of England, some they work with Netflix and Discovery. And so I think if if the right person is found in that, that'd probably be the time that I would, you know, take that energy because I'm already going to be reprocessing the last you know decade that it'd be a good time to you know get those things down and and write them out and put put pen to paper and you know, produce something that I feel like would be of worth. You know, I wanted to I wanted to make sure there's enough value in it.

Corley: You know, no, I think without a doubt. Brendan McDonough: Being able to just just some brief Corley: insight into your mindset, into the mindset of your journey and where where you're currently at in your journey. And the the I want to say the healthy perspective that is usually not I don't want to say not seen, but normally the the it's all surrounded with doom and gloom and and the and the dark like the what was your words the the gritty dirty beginning of it But there's so much beauty in in what you're saying today. And that that that really is the the best part of this story. Brendan McDonough: If I can't like the Hallmark story, right? Corley: Yeah. Yeah, we can I mean it's not sexy, but yeah, 100%. 100%. Brendan McDonough: Yeah, and so there's definitely that down the road. Probably in the next, I'd say probably max five years. Corley: Excellent. I look forward to it. Now and it's in the scraps, so that means it's gonna happen. It has to happen. Brendan McDonough: Yeah, now it ha and now it's to it didn't have to before, but now it does. You know, and that brings up a thought too is like with the fire services, people would ask me like, would you ever go back? And I was like, yeah, I could go back. But like could I really? You know? Like I could sit here and say I could, but could I really? You know, and it's like this book, right? You said it's in the scrap, like Now for me mentally, it's like I I can sit here and say I could write a book, but am I really going to? Right. Like, can I do it? Right. And so that now that's in my head of like, okay, that's that's on the box in the notes of like But put your money where your mouth is, Brennan. Like just internally. Right. Of like you're going to be able to do it. Yeah. Can you do it? You know, is that the reality? And you know, is that You just dodging what you maybe could do and you're afraid that you couldn't do it, you know? 'cause there's that big fear too of like Maybe I can't. And that that was an acceptance I had to come to as well. Thankfully that's not it. But you know, the books, that'll be another target of like, well, can you do it?

Brendan McDonough: You know, that'll be me in my head all day tomorrow. Corley: Greg Carter had a question for you. Greg Carter had a question for you earlier on that I wanted to throw at you here. It says, he he said, okay, I'll start with a lighthearted one. he says, I can see the excitement in your face from going interior, but you also brought your experience from Wildland. So which one do you like best? Interior or the wildland? Brendan McDonough: that's a great question. You know, one of the things I learned early on in like one of our first MCSs in the academy is like how fast this goes. You know, most bread and butter structure fires, you know, you're you're in and out in 25 minutes. Like you're that's it, you know. Either you've got the knockdown, you've got the job done, or it's a defensive, right? that's my limited knowledge. for wildfires, it unless it's an initial attack Which the two that I've had on the job at both binats, we've been able to get around them right then and there. You just see a lot of fire behavior in wildfires. It is it is so impressive and it is such a machine what the wildland fire community does with such little resources. and in the fire service, in the structure side too. And so I love them both equally for different reasons. I love, you know, the structure side of the the fast paced, the the but also the methodical like It's fast in how we're moving, but the thought process is slow and methodical because of training and because of leadership, right? Of like my first fire felt extremely fast to me, right? Wait, it did. It was like, holy cow, that's that's but it also felt so slow because there's moments I'm just taking in. And then, you know the the part on both of like overhaul, right? Or mopping up, like that's not the most enjoyable. you know, but it's a part of the job. That's that's the cost that it and then there's the back of the mind too of, you know, that I try and share with community members of like we are only excited if we have to. You know, that's the mindset that I want to keep. I only get excited when I have to, not because I get to, right?

Brendan McDonough: Or because the potential is there. Because that displacement of that family member Sure. In any extent, right? room and contents, a a kitchen fire is a lot. And so I try and keep that mentality with both of, you know, wildfires are destructive, structure fires are destructive. And so only do I get this feeling of excitement of being able to make a difference. You know, and and I felt a lot of people probably feel that way. Of course, you know, we want fires and stuff like that, but in a perfect world, they, you know, people wouldn't lose homes and and and lose valuables and sentimentals and and things of that such. And that was instilled in me in a in early in the fire service, you know, kind of segueing that this is what we do and what it is. I was on a fire down south Arizona. We just got our our butts handed to us all day. We have lost you know numerous homes. and we're sitting at dinner table, it's nine o'clock and I'm and I'm eating and you know we're just having conversations. It's kind of somber but it's not down. And I look over and I see some people in civilian clothes, and you know, there's IC members and maybe I I don't know. It's one of my first few fires in the wildfire arena And I asked my squad boss, I'm like, hey, w what are they? You know, and he and he just looks at me and he and and not not with any attitude or any anything, he just very calmly was like, those those are the people who lost their home. They have nowhere to go tonight And I was sick to my stomach. You know? I was absolutely sick to my stomach that I'm sitting here Eating dinner, you know? with what I felt like more to give, right? In that in that moment. And You know, got up, couldn't I, you know, half my food's done. I worked all day, 16 hour shift, I should eat, you know, right? Right. And I couldn't because I I just I felt guilty And you know, that's that's something I try and carry forward with me of, you know, like, hey, this is an exciting job. We train so much for it. But I only get excited when I get to make a difference, not dwell on it or dream on it.

Brendan McDonough: You know? Corley: No, no, it's a powerful mindset. It is a great it's a yeah, phenomenal mindset. Brendan McDonough: And I think many people in the fire service carry that, but that just kinda clicked in my head when that question was asked of, you know, what do I like more? yeah, I I love both, to be honest. I love both. They both carry such a weight and a heaviness of responsibility. I think I love structure fires more right now just because of the growth for knowledge. Sure. I have millions of miles to grow on wildfire too. Sure. But the chance that I'm gonna see a fire like what I've seen in my past experience of being on a hot shot crew in our community is hopefully slim to none. Right. And so just those those little memories, those little reflections back on, you know, how to make a difference moving forward is something that that excites me. Corley: I love it, brother. So with that being said, I like I love to ask. I don't know if you're a reader. I don't know if you're a reader. He said you, you know, but I love to ask book or books. that you think firefighters should read. Doesn't have to be firefighter related, but what books do you think firefighters should read?

Brendan McDonough: Oh man, I'm not a big reader. Right on. and that's something I've been trying to improve on in my life. You know, if you're married and if you're a believer, there's a book called The Love Dare Corley: The love dare like truth or dare? Brendan McDonough: Yeah. Okay. No, it's it's all about it. Corley: No, I just want to make sure I had the right word. That's all. Brendan McDonough: Yeah, the love dare, it's all about building a deeper connection. with your spouse and how to honor God through that. that's been a highly impactful book in my marriage. And that's the first one that comes to mind. Beautiful The second one, I I read just a few books. No, no. And, you know, I read the Bible and I read the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. And I read a daily reflection book within recovery, but also spirituality. And more or less, I try and read more on like I'm getting into it because of Kyle Romagus who was on your your show of like the SFFSRI data. Speaker 4: Yes. Brendan McDonough: And then I think One of the chiefs is in here, Eric Merrill. He's he's big on that data too, and he introduced that to the academy. he was the training chief for the neighboring department, and I've known him forever. He taught my academy Great dude. go crazy.

Corley: No, phenomenal resource. The stuff they put out, unbelievable. Brendan McDonough: Yeah. Yeah. I think it that stuff I'm trying to really dive in and start to look into. I think that's more tangible stuff for me, those kind of like, you know, those classes that I could do over a few days or those reads that I can comprehend over a few days and take it to my captain and peers and, you know, kind of reflect on with has been pretty awesome. that's kind of that that's kind of the bread and butter, but I have been listening to the weekly scrap and trying to look at some books. Corley: Oh, that's phenomenal. Yeah. That you win right there. Brendan McDonough: I've got a I got I got I got a list of them that I'm looking for. Some of those old ones that, you know, kind of provide history. Yeah. You know, I think there's there's a lot out there, but yeah, not a That's probably the one area improvement in my life that I feel like I've I've struggled with the most is reading more, to be honest. That is something that You know, I read and study, right? But as far as for enjoyment, it's not something that I go to.

Corley: You're not a re you're you're not you wouldn't describe yourself as an avid reader. No, no, I would like to be. No, no, and I want to encourage you because I th I think it's one of the one of the keys to life, but that's my own personal passion. And so anybody who knows me knows I would say that over and over. I think what you suggested is phenomenal So thank you for that. Thank you for sharing it. Now we do a thing on here called the Five Questions for Firefighters. And the Five Questions for Firefighters, we ask them every scrap. They change throughout time. You're on a pretty new version of them. They're called the Fire Fiction for The five questions for firefighters version 5. 0, and there are no correct answers, just your opinions And then I tap out the points with the help of the audience. So, Donut, Brendan McDonough, are you ready for the five questions for firefighters? I think so. Here we go. Number one. You can do anything in the world except be a firefighter. What would you choose to be? Brendan McDonough: Probably a psychologist with a study in neuroscience.

Corley: So you'd be like, Huberman on on just yeah, just a big badass doctor who understood the human mind? Brendan McDonough: Yeah, I think that would be I think that would be it. At the end of the day, it'd have to be helping people. Right on. Right. So like a clinician in the military pastor maybe. Okay. But the first thing that comes to mind is that. Okay. No, I love it. I'm not. My captain just texted me. He said professional chocolate moose eater. We had a moose eating competition the other night. It it didn't end farewell for me. Corley: But Oh, so you you are not the professional, is that what I'm getting Brendan McDonough: No, someone beat me by like three cups. but yeah, I would say a psychologist with a study in in neuroscience would probably That I if I were to have a second career after the fire service, that's probably what I'd start gearing towards. Love it. Corley: And someone out there will probably correct me on what Huberman actually does. But phenomenal. Phenomenal Max Points answer. I love especially the part where you said it's helping people in some way, shape, or form. Number two, it's job town. It's time. You are in route and responding, like the scene from Backdraft, slapping that tape into that cassette deck. What song are you playing while in route?

Brendan McDonough: Man, that is tough. This is the part I should have studied for. Oh, Man, I got like three though Corley: Hey, here's the deal. You get to play one, so I'm waiting to hear your answer. There is something funny about this. I'll share this real quick. I read a meme the other day which made me think of the five questions And it was, you know, I was doom scrolling and got caught in it. And it said, basically it said, you have six minutes left. What song are you putting on repeat? Right? You have six minutes left left to live is what it was. Six minutes left to live. What song are you putting on repeat? And I was like, oh, that's that's pretty that's like a five questions for firefighters type question. But then one of the comments said, I'm spending six minutes trying to figure out which song to play. So oh I got you there I got you I got you you back can you hear me alright yeah we hear you good can you hear us okay That's a little oh man, that is not cool. You can make sign language at us. Can you hear us? Hold on, I'm seeing I think he lost his earbuds and he's going phone. Mike Chick, Mike Chick, buy in time. So yeah, the Instagram while while he figures out where we get his ears back. the absolute I absolutely connected with the whole six minutes left to live. What song are you picking? And Yeah, that that was absolutely one hundred percent how I felt about it. How you doing, Donut? Any luck? He may not hear. I think I'm there. I can hear you. Can you hear us? Okay.

Brendan McDonough: Yeah. You're back? Yep, I can hear you. I'm not gonna get these back, but that's okay. what's your song? My song Probably probably song to be honest, man. If if we're looking at six minutes left, you know that's a corporate, but it's job town. So Yeah, yeah, yeah. Job Town, probably ACDC Thunderstruck. That's probably it. Thunderstruck. Okay. Corley: It's hard to beat. Yeah. That's one of the best intros of all time. And and and rolling down the rolling down the dropkick Murphy's, you know, like That was just one. It's Thunderstruck, right? Is that what you're going with? Brendan McDonough: Yeah, it is. It is. Corley: Making sure we're having a little bit of a little bit of lag issue. Okay. Excellent. Max points for Thunderstruck. ACDC will I think if you if you want to just Easy s easy easy throw max points just throw some ACDC out there depending on the call. But number three, tomorrow morning you wake up and you are the chief of department. Now I understand you are a probationary firefighter, so you can And yeah, but you can do whatever you want. What is the first change you are making? And it can be a fictional fire department. It doesn't have to be Prescott.

Brendan McDonough: Yeah. You know and this is this is gonna be cliche, but and this is because of the great leadership I've had is I I'd I'd ask the members first. That's that's the most important piece, right? And you know that's that's I think that would that would be my question is what do the members want, what do they need. I I can I can I I can have a million ideas, you know. but if I were to wake up tomorrow, I think it'd be For me, I think it'd be arrogant of me to make a decision that I I didn't understand the full recourse of, right? Corley: Yeah. Just I know that initially I want to be like, no, that's too that's too easy of a of a soft answer. That's not a good but honestly, after listening to you talk all night, I think that's a that's a very authentic answer coming from you. And it's a phenomenal answer for servant leadership, servant-based leadership of figuring out what your people need. Great, great answer, max points. Easy, easy, max points. Number four. You know what? Brendan McDonough: I got one. I got one. Tillers. Everybody. Everybody gets a teller. Everyone gets a tiller if they want one.

Corley: You get a tiller. They get a tiller. Okay. That was that was even better, honestly. but that's an easier that's these are the easy ways to get max points is pass out tiller trucks. yeah but you are three for three max points. Yeah, they said double points number four, this one's on the clock. You get one minute. One minute to answer this question. You are riding backwards on the rig. You are the back step firefighter. It's a four-man engine, or you can make it a truck if you want, but it's a four-man apparatus. Who is your dream company to ride with? You get one driver, one officer, and one backseat firefighter. Brendan McDonough: Only because they f they f they fought structure fire, right? Okay. is the three dads that were firemen of my lost brothers. Yeah. There's three dads that are structure firefighters. I would choose those three. Kevin Mojak Danny Parker and Mike Mackenzie, yeah, I'd choose those three. That would be the three. Corley: I don't Easy, four for four, and it takes us to the final question, which is heavy fire, searchable space. Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on VES?

Brendan McDonough: Oh man. Corley: VS, yeah And that officially makes it he's five for five max points, Brendan, Donut, McDonough, that officially puts I don't even know what number this is. 321 scraps in the books. My brother, you absolutely brought the brought it tonight. I can't I can't say thank you enough for spending your evening with us here on the scrap. I'm honored. Thank you. If someone wants to reach out to you, if someone wants to get in touch with you, what is the best way to go about doing so? Brendan McDonough: social media, Instagram or Facebook, that is probably the best way to get a hold of me. Instagram is donut underscore 928 and then I've got a personal page and a professional page on Facebook that's just my name. Either one. I think that's the best way to get a hold of me. I give my email, but it's so long it's not even It's it's too long. Yeah. Corley: Right on. Social media, best way to get to in touch with you. please, please do so. again, I can't thank you enough for spending your evening, your your your story, your vulnerability, your your insight. It was It was a powerful scrap and it's going to bring value to the fire service. I have no doubt about that. With that being said, there's two things I like to do at the end. The first one is a challenge to the firefighters that are listening. Between this scrap and the next scrap, a challenge for them to complete before the next scrap comes. From you to them, what is Brendan's challenge to them from the scrap?

Brendan McDonough: Yeah, go If you're if you're someone who's experienced this mental health, right, go share that with somebody, right? If you've seen the other side of this go share that with somebody and if you are someone who is questioning whether to reach out for help is to go have that conversation and You know, be open open to help. I've I've met some of the toughest and the baddest in the country, you know. I've this this I will you know brag on and bring a little probato to of I've had the absolute honor of meeting some of the finest firemen and and firefighters who are women too in this country. And they are all in the same pace of of taking care of themselves, right? From from New York to to LA, you know, everything in between and around the world. go get the help because you deserve it and no no problems too too small or too big to be resolved Right. That is that is what we do and you can't do it alone, you know? in the fire service we are problem fixers. That's what we do. We show up at people's worst times and we need someone to show up in our worst time that we don't comprehend You know, I didn't get to this understanding of mental health through you know education. I got through it, through going through it, and and other people deserve that. And those that are listening that may be struggling, you deserve that too. and so that would that would be my challenge, you know, two part. If you've experienced this hope, go share it. Make sure you share it. And if you are looking for that hope, go go seek it until you find it, because it is there.

Corley: I can guarantee that. Powerful. Thank you. On par with the scrap his challenge, his challenge delivers. So I hope you will take that challenge. I hope you will run with it. Probably possibly more than any other challenge that's been dished so far. I hope you will reach out for it. The final thing is someone that you think should be on the scrap or back on the scrap. We've had a lot of people and you can't possibly know all of them, so I always like to give that that out. But someone you think needs to be on the scrap Brendan McDonough: Man, that's a great question. someone that I think would do it. That's there's some guys that like wouldn't they're like, nah, I don't know what I'm doing that. Right. The first person that comes to mind is Jim Bernecka. Jim Bernecka. He's out of Ohio. Amazing dude on the within mental health has an amazing story. He does a conference every year, Beaver Creek, Ohio. And he he he's just a wealth of information and just is such a soft spoken dude. He's a guy who's spoken into my life. I think he'd be I I mean I got a list of people that I think that that's the first one that I know as what I'll do.

Corley: Who instantly pops up to the top Brendan McDonough: Yeah, he instantly pops up to the top of just a solid conversation, very, very, just very from the heart, you know, of of when he speaks and how he speaks. there's a million people. Corley: Man, oh no doubt, no doubt. Yeah. But no, I love it. I love it. It's a perfect answer. with all that being said, I will do my housekeeping. Go to patreon. com, become a vigilante, the vigilantes. The Discord is amazing. It's where we hang out. It's where we, it's where so much goes on in the Discord. It's so much fun. If you're not a vigilante, why not? become a part today. One of the best parts about being a vigilante is you get to go to the after party, which is happening in the next few minutes. Brendan is invited and that's where we come in and if the guest shows up we roast the guest. depending on how they did in the the scrap. And of course it's it's never a roast. here's the spoiler. It's it's the mild roast that's all right. We threaten a roast every time and it and it rarely occurs unless the guest actually starts roasting. Vigilantes. But show up to get your chops busted. Next week coming up on the scrap. It is Anthony Castro's Coming back on. I'm super excited. It's also where we are going to announce the winner of the FDIC giveaway, the Pay It Forward Pass. That the vigilante selected from all of the submissions. We will be announcing it on Anthony and Boni Castros scrap next week on Tuesday. And there is a surprise I'm not ready to I'll probably be revealing it tomorrow when it hits social media, but there is a surprise about Mr. Castros's scrap next week. So you guys can I'll leave that as a cliffhanger with all that being said, I'll quit talking. Audience, you know I love you. Man, tonight it was a powerful, powerful scrap. And I know most of us just sat there and listening, me included, until Had trouble speaking. And then it's again, audience, thank you for showing up each and every week live and asking Phenomenal questions from the phenomenal guest. You guys make the scrap magical, and without you it wouldn't exist. So thank you from the bottom of my heart for showing up.

Corley: Remember. Mutts don't scrap. I hope the tones stay silent unless it is burning. Speaker 4: This job is not safe. So stay smart out there