Weekly Scrap #239 - Candace Ashby, Solving the Disconnect

Corley: Now we want to do that. Corley Moore talking to you for a few short minutes while we're waiting for the scrap to begin. The scrap will be starting here in just a few minutes, and I'm gonna talk to you while everybody's logging in, I'm gonna talk to you about becoming a vigilante. If you are not a vigilante, why not? It is a collection of the coolest cats from across the world, firefighters from around the world getting together in a group and supporting each other. It's an amazing group to be a part of. Every Day, people are posting their questions, their problems, their advice. It is powerful to belong to, one of the best collections of people, and you can be a part of it We got stuff like the swag. The swag is awesome. Don't get me wrong. The swag is awesome. That's not what it's about, but you got vigilante-only swag, like the custom bookmarks made by Taylor's Tins. For the vigilantes. You got stuff like the the blacked out, vigilante hats and the vigilante shirts, all available in the exclusive vigilante only shop, which All of that stuff is sold not I don't want to say at no markup but like at the lowest possible price you can basically sell it for and so And it's not even about the swag, although that's just that's just the awesome part of it. We do forums is some of the best, most gifted subject matter experts coming in and they have conversations. It's like a scrap. Think of the scrap but you're in it also in the call able to ask and have conversations and talk. It's an amazing time. We do I've got the fourth episode of the Fire Away Fire away coming up this month. And in a fire away I go live and just field questions. People post questions, field questions, and we answer and discuss those questions from firefighters across the world. It's a good time. The fire away is the forums It's an amazing time. Not to mention, the every time there's a conference and vigilantes get together, we we have a vigilante meetup. We're we're forming We're in the process of forming traditions that are gonna that are gonna make and how those how those happen and what it means when you hate when you get like your vigilante coin which is also another thing that's pretty pretty freaking cool is the vigilante coin, the blackout coin.

Corley: And they're numbered, they're exclusive, and we're figuring out how that's gonna work out when we get together in person. And we have and we we're supposed to recite the creed. We do this for others. Push, train, learn, master ourselves. Never easy. Never quit. Ban, if you're not a member of the Vigilantees, I'm just asking you, why not? I wanted to talk to you for a few minutes while the scrap is about to start. You can go to firehousevigilance. com. Five bucks a month You are a member of the vigilantes. You can also sign up for a year if you prefer that over the subscription. FirehouseVigilance. com. Become a member today, man. You will not regret it. The scrap will be starting soon. Thanks for listening to me There we go. Here we go. Now we don't have to be quiet. Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance. It is weekly scrap number 239. Joined on this episode By Dr. Candace Ashby. She is a career firefighter with over 34 years of fire service experience and is currently battalion chief with the Indianapolis Fire Department Her educational background includes a doctorate of management in organizational leadership. She is president of Key Fire Investigations and Elite Public Safety Consulting. Dr. Ashby joins, enjoys making a positive impact in the fire service through coaching, mentoring, and leading positive change. I have never had the opportunity to take her class myself We're always teaching at the same time, but over and over and over from people I respect, when she's not around, they say, best leadership class I've ever taken, best leadership class I've ever taken So I'm super excited for tonight's show to say the least. One of the most requested guests ever for the scrap, and we finally made it happen. So it's my absolute pleasure to have you on as the guest of weekly scrap number two thirty-nine. Welcome to the scrap, Chief Ashby.

Dr. Candace Ashby: Oh thank you Chief. I appreciate it. Corley: And is it Doctor Chief? Dr. Candace Ashby: It's whatever you want it to be. Corley: Fair enough, fair enough. I've had a few doctors on, like Eric Sailors, one of my favorite people out of California. He's a doctor and he says you can have Dr. Sailors or you can have Eric the Viking. So whichever whichever one you want. So it's kind of funny. Dr. Candace Ashby: I go by anything. Corley: We got Candace the Viking also today. Dr. Candace Ashby: There you go. Corley: is there anything I miss in the intro? Anything you would like to add? Dr. Candace Ashby: No. The only thing before we get started that I gotta add is that my opinions are mine and not that of any of my employers So now that I got that disclaimer out of the way, I think we're ready to roll. Corley: Get the disclaimer going. Absolutely. One second. Let me fix. Let me see what this one is. I'm fixing one thing that I realized Maybe, maybe. Sorry, Candace. You can go ahead and talk while I fix something behind the scenes here. Oh, you're fine. I'll put you on the spot 100%. There we go. Maybe, maybe not. Dr. Candace Ashby: I can't believe I'm the most requested Guest speaker.

Corley: No, without I I mean it's saying under the radar where it is absolutely backed up with the data. It is absolutely backed up with the data to prove it. So 100% there we go. I fixed my problem. I realized my problem that I had going on. Okay, all that being said, let's do those beautiful sponsors, which is the thing I had messed up Sam is having his internet issues. He's he's kind of in the background, but he's not running everything and making it run smooth. So you got me running things. You got my allergies absolutely right wrecking me. So I got the glasses rocking. Sorry to put you on the spot, but I did fix it. Okay, let's go. Beautiful sponsors, affordable drill towers, on a mission to bring you the cost-effective and versatile training props. com So there we go, of course, Keyhose always the OG OG sponsor of the scrap. Kehos, check them out on Facebook and at Keyhose. com. So there we go. Got the sponsors done. Got my technical issues done, and we're ready to scrap So let me catch you up real quick on the chat because there's been a ton that I missed as I mess with stuff. Here we go. Let's go. Vigilante's locked in. Get in, sit down, shut up, and hang on. LFG from Jim Platt John Shacklefer said Doc is in the house. Cody Brooks said checking in from Florida. Jordan Thomas says Ohio Township Fire is watching Marco Isom said let's do this Monday not raw Monday night raw with Chief Ashby. Chuck Henness said seen Chief at Teeks, it was the best class, filled up a page with notes, and laughed for days And there's no pressure, like from all this hype. No pressure at all. Chuck Chuck Hannis said one is one of the best leadership classes I've ever taken. David Christie says Chief Ashby is the best. There's so much praise for Chief Ashby. So there you go. I hope you're hyped. Let's get right into it. What you do, you your specialty, so many people talk about personal development, but you also blend in organizational development And I love the way you described it when we were researching for the episode. so talk to me about what that looks like or or you're basically your specialty.

Dr. Candace Ashby: Well, let me let me take it back to the beginning stages. The entire so I'm in my 34th year career. My entire career has been on a street. I've never been in the administration. So it it's not that I haven't been asked and I'm very grateful to and honored to even have my name considered to be part of an administration, but being on the street my entire life There's a lot of frustrations that I have. And one is early on, I don't feel that people on the street are ever told or are made to feel that they're valued unless they're in a top job in the administration So part of what I do when I blend the organization and the pro in the personal leadership is I go out to the boots on the ground. And I tell them, you absolutely are valued. You have more power than you can possibly conceive. And I'm here to flick that switch and try to turn it on So that they start using that power and try to engage them as more or less a call to action to quiet down the negative naysayers that speak the loudest in an organization that tend to you know, bring down the morale and and things. But I I think there's a lot of twisted things that go on, at least in my career, in my experience it has, and part of my message is trying to untwist that. But only have so long to try to get into people's minds and and and pull back the band-aid and let's really look at the wounds of the fire service and then figure out how we're gonna fix that to be part of the solution. So that's a little bit about why I do what I do. And I don't think anybody's ever come out to us on a street and told us it will never work for the perfect fire department. I think we get down, we get in ruts And we always think the grass is greener on the other side. And sometimes, depending on your organization, it might be. However, for the majority of us, it's not the grass is greener on the other side. It's the fact that we are all facing the same identical issues. We just fall short of being part of the solution to those issues.

Dr. Candace Ashby: And we hold that in our hands. And we need to unleash that power. Corley: Wow. No, I love it. I love it. No small task either. No small task. Dr. Candace Ashby: No, it's nothing. Corley: It's not. And you and and what's your typical I don't want to say typical, but how long you said you don't have much time to make the impact. What what's your is it a one day, one week? Dr. Candace Ashby: Well no, typically so the short version, the things that I do like at conference level, such as FDIC, sure is I do a motivational speech that's an hour and forty-five minutes, a classroom session And I just have a very short window of time to, you know, spark that interest. But I do believe the attention span of firefighters is very short. So you gotta grab onto them and then give them the nuggets to which when they leave that conference that they can go back and make real change. The expanded version of what I do is organizational problem solving where I go into an organization such as a ABC Fire Department And I I go in with the boots on the ground, I tell the administration to stay out of the room, and I ask the boots on the ground, tell me where your issues are as you see them in your organization. And they do. And once they tell me those issues, I break them into crews and they give me the solutions to those issues. So if it's a career department, I do that across three shifts I end each day with that motivational speech and I can shorten it to an hour and forty-five minutes, two hours, and I can lengthen it to six hours if I need to, if I need to do a whole day. Because I definitely have the gift of gab. And I sit down with the fire chief after those three days and I put everything in the bucket and I say, now listen, after listening to your people I can tell you that you have six main issues in the organization, but here's 12 to 15 solutions to those issues. And I try to bridge the gap between the administration and the operations division Because I believe that's what's broken in most organizations, especially the fire service, is there's a disconnect from the top to the bottom.

Dr. Candace Ashby: And that disconnect is communications. So one of the reasons that I go in and do the problem solving and listen to the people is to try to bridge that gap and give that organization a push out of the rut that they're in. And I leave people with strategies and tactics of how to show up better today than they showed up yesterday. Right. That if the administration doesn't do anything with the information I give them How can they continue to make an incredible impact where they're at, no matter where they are in that organization? Corley: Wow. Man, there's so many questions swimming in my head already. what is the man there's what's the Obviously, like the the larger the department, you know, they always heard the analogy of turning a battleship. What's the ideal impact level have you noticed as you've done this? Is there one? Or is it really come down to the culture and leadership that's in place? Dr. Candace Ashby: I tell you, this originally started out as an officer development class and about Oh, I would say eight years ago. And I have massaged it over time to where it's not just officers, it's anybody in that organization, from the youngest, newest recruit all the way to a 40 plus year fire chief and everybody in between. Now, there were reservations in the beginning. Was I gonna be able to connect with the Gen Z, the the Millennials? You know, I I really was worried about that. coming in from you know being one of the veterans now. But I am happy to report the feedback that I get, whether it's a fire chief or whether that's a new recruit the the takeaways that they get from hearing me speak. It's actually shocking to me that people want to hear me speak, but it's the takeaways that they get. And probably the number one feedback that I have heard at fire departments is they continue to talk about it after I leave. And that to me is one of the best compliments that I could get, is then I start that conversation and that conversation continues. after I'm gone. So that means they're really talking about how to take that information and have positive change and change the culture.

Corley: Love it. I absolutely love it. Everybody in the audience, get your questions in for Candace Chief Ashby, Dr. Ashby. Get them in. Sam is in the chats. He is looking. I think at every chat, Instagram, YouTube, Facebook. He's even looking at LinkedIn, although I don't think anybody actually watches on LinkedIn, but it's there. But he's grabbing the questions. So if you have questions about how this process works Get them in. I want to dig in and ask a few more things because you separate, you go in and you s you spend time with the operations level, the line, the men and women on the line, and you ask them what's the problem here with no admin allowed Yes. Wow. And y and does it take time is it usually just a dump fest or is it does it take time to earn their trust or they look at you with something? Dr. Candace Ashby: Yeah, I think about an hour in the beginning, maybe a little over an hour that I come in and do a warm-up. I I let them know the world in which I came from, how I see the world, I connect with them, I gain their trust because I only have so many minutes in which to do that. I was worried in the beginning whether or not people were going to trust me in order to talk and open up to me, or were they just going to look at me as a hired gun from the admin? Right. But I feel at least the feedback that I get and the way that they open up to me, it's it's fun on the first day that I'm brought in to an organization, the firefighters are like You know, it's a four to six hour training. They come into work and they find out and they're like, Oh my gosh, freaking doctor from Indy coming in to talk to us. Right. And then I come in and you can see they're all stiff. They have no idea what it is I'm doing. And by the time I end, they're like, that wasn't what we expected to happen. And they and they were they were like, you know, they liked what they were what what happened in the discussions that we had And then on day two, they come in and they're all curious, like they got all this good feedback because you know what happens on shift change.

Dr. Candace Ashby: And then by day three, they're bringing me entire books of problems and they're laying 'em down, like we're ready to talk. Just look at your intro. Yeah. So the words spread through the entire organization. I've been to some organizations that people have called in sick in the first first day they end up coming to the training by the third day because word had spread. Word had spread. You have got to come in here and listen to what this woman has to say. But I I believe it's that the the connection, the authenticity, I mean I I try to to bring that. and and at the same time, I really believe that everybody in the fire service needs a swift kick right dead in the ass. I don't care where you're at, I don't care how many years you have on, we all need that from time to time to get us back straight. on why we're here and what we're here to do. And everything that I speak about, I have experience at as far as being one of the negative people, being having an attitude of, you know, why do anything? They don't do anything. Why should I give a shit? They don't give a shit. Why should I try? They don't try I've been there, done that, and I finally got to a point in my career that it doesn't matter if I don't have support above me. It does not give me the right not to come into work and support the 15 officers under my command. Right on. And so it's got to start and stop somewhere. So it doesn't matter what goes on above you. And I tell my officers, you know, I have your back. And I and I hope that every one of 'em knows that. They they've been shown that. It it might be short lived. We may all go down like dominoes. But there's not a greater feeling in the world than when your boss has your back and there's not a worse feeling in the world when your boss doesn't. Wow. I'll leave that at there.

Corley: No no, I mean I'm telling you, like that psychological safety is is such a a linchpin, I think, in in my mind. And if you've been under both, you'd know exactly what we're talking about. Yeah, Brad Knight said such a boss would work for chief any day. Brian Mendina said soundbite timestamp 100% 819. Thank you for reminding me because I'm doing a lot of I've multitasking so well and poorly at the same time. 819 timestamp. I got your first questions coming at you from the audience. Are you ready, Candace? Dr. Candace Ashby: I'm ready. Corley: I can't I I don't you said to call you Candy? Dr. Candace Ashby: You call me Candy, yeah. Corley: Okay, I'm making sure because I feel that's almost like when I'm talking to the Dr. Chief Battalion chief, a consultant, I feel almost disrespectful. This one comes from Marco Isome from Facebook. And we do see you, Mark. I do see you, Mark Davidson with the C. I do see you on LinkedIn. Just so you know we can't Sam can't chat to you. He acknowledged you, but I wanted to acknowledge you, so thank you for representing. Marco Isom coming at you, said Chief Ashby How do you define leadership and what traits make a good leader?

Dr. Candace Ashby: Well, this is one of the things that I do in my class. So I I go to a board and I and I tell people the audience that I want them to think of the best person that they can think of. If I say this is a really good dude I want you to think of somebody, whether it's a family member, whether it's a person at church, whether it's a neighbor, whether it's the, you know, a co-worker. Get somebody in your mind that you think is just the best person that you could be around. And then I go to a board, I put good people, and I say they tend to emulate the same traits. What are they? And the audience speaks up. Here they are. You know, here's some of them. And now I'll go, depending on how big the audience is. It could be 10 or it could be 30. But integrity You know, with that honesty, trustworthy, hardworking, positive attitude. So we have all of these attributes That are you know, and we all agree collectively as a group that this is what a good person looks like. And then I tell them there's as many definitions on leadership as there are books written on the topic We don't want anything more than the boss that we report to to be the best person, to be this person right here that we have on the board, these traits. We want them to be a good person. If you're a boss, you don't want anything more than the people to report to you to emulate those same traits right there. And if you're not either one, you're not in a position of authority, you're just a backstepper. You don't want anything more than that fellow backstepper to emulate those traits right there. So I don't define leadership, but I show the audience what a leader is. And that is coming in and being the best person you can be every single day. Now What with that, I say, would you do anything in the world for these people? And I get overwhelming, yes, I would. Well, why would you? Because they would do the same thing for us. Absolutely. Do these good people have bad days Yes, they do. They just don't typically stay down. They pick their self back up. The biggest question of all, do they make you want to be better just being in their presence?

Dr. Candace Ashby: Does it make you want to be better? Overwhelmingly. Yes, that's what I get. And I said, and they're not even trying. All the reason that you want to be better and to be around these people is the way they carry themselves, the way they conduct theirself. This is the it the humanity of of leadership that's coming out. I mean what leadership is is influence. What how you get that influence is through the building of trust and how you have that trust is through relationships. None of which you can build without those traits right there because that's the only way that you can build trust with another person With that, I go down the opposite road and I say, let's look at the fire department asshole. What do those traits look like? They're negative. They blame people. They're egotistical. They're arrogant. They're not, you know, they're just a negative, condescending person. It may be a good person, their attitude is just in a tank But when you look at them side by side on this board, it's truly the opposite of a good person. If we changed all those traits, we would flip that chart and make it the fire department asshole. Now every organization has those people. So let me take this a step further, even though I just answered your question about being a leader is Those negative people, these are the people that you could literally walk in and hand them a hundred dollar bill and they're not going to be happy that it's not 200. They're going to find a way to complain a bitch So I call that and I ask the audience, I in all the audience I've asked, if you had to give me a percentage in your organization of how many people at the bottom are negative What would it be? The common answer I get is 5 to 10%. So I say, okay, let's take 10%. If the 10% of the people are negative and only they know who they are, I don't know who they are. This is what I need. I need the 90%, which are the good people that don't sit around and bitch and complain and and they may at times, but But it's not really what they're what they're groomed to do. I need the ninety percent to take away the audience of the ten percent.

Dr. Candace Ashby: Because that ten percent is what's really killing the fire department right there. But they are Conditioning other firefighters to believe that everything rests on the shoulders of the fire chief. And I'm not here to take up for any fire chiefs. I'm really not. there's good ones and there's some that's not so good. The same way with firefighters, same way with paramedics. But we are conditioned to believe, well, everything in the fire department that's wrong, we're gonna blame the fire chief. Morale's down, we're blaming the fire chief. And I'm saying, guys, stop blaming the fire chief because if you're sitting back waiting on one person to come to the top of this organization and save it, you're going to be waiting your entire career because it'll never happen. It doesn't work. An organization doesn't work like that. We have to all be together as one team. And instead, we've had people go before us. that's made us believe it's only the top that can move the organization. Well the top does set direction, but that commitment comes from the bottom And if they don't commit because they don't trust and they don't have that relationship building, where do where we go? We we go around and round a circles of Groundhog Day and we're stuck in the mud and we can't move that organization five foot down the road. And that's what we need to do.

Corley: What a great answer. Candace absolutely I love I love the write down a good person on the board because that is so that anybody can identify with that instantly. I mean you that's one of the best Simplifications, and I mean that in a complimentary way. I hope you take it as a compliment when I say that is one of the best answers I've heard to describe the qualities of a leader. Dr. Candace Ashby: Well, and that's what I try to get down to. You know, and I've seen that I've spread articles where people believe it's more than just being a good person. Yes In context it is. You need the competency to go with it that's in your you know line of work. Corley: Sure. Dr. Candace Ashby: But let's just get down to the simplistic level that we all need to work on, and that's what it means to lead by example is how in the world you carry yourself and the attitudes that you have every single day. And I will say this, and then I'll go back to the questions. The daily struggle that I believe happens from for every firefighter in the country is to fight and resist the temptation to say screw this place. Once they get that attitude, and I've had it for years, once you adopt that attitude, How good are you going to be when you walk into that station every single day? If that is your mentality, you've just done yourself a disservice and everybody around you, all your brothers and sisters a disservice, because that mentality is going to guide your decision making and your actions from there on out. So if I had that and everything that happens to me and I was like, you know what, screw this place, then how good of a battalion chief would I be for my people

Corley: Wow, no, I love it, man. What a great answer. I've got so many timestamps already. 819, 825, 827, 820. I love it. Next question coming at you from the audience is comes from John Velez Jr. He wants to know what is the most common issue the boots on the ground have with administration and what has been the solution, which I think you've already been talking about a little bit with the communication issue, but I'll let you answer it in your own words. Dr. Candace Ashby: John, I'll give you six. I'll give you the top six. Number one, the lack of communication. Number two, the lack of accountability Number three, the lack of direction. Number four, the lack of good quality policies and procedures. Number five, the lack of good quality training. And number six, the lack of leadership development. Now theirs are the biggest issues plaguing every organization. Number one, first and foremost, the foundation of all of it is communication. I believe that disconnect happens. Personally, my opinion is because the people in the admin and the people on the street look through two totally separate lenses in the fire service. The first one is people in the admin, they only hear from the 10%, because the 10% speak the loudest. So they hear all the negative stuff coming up to them. And they tend to blanket all of us as a bunch of chronic whiners and crybabies. And that pisses me off because I don't feel that I am one, but also I feel you guys aren't listening, knock knock at the top. It's a glass wall. They can see us, but they can't hear us. At the same time, let's flip it back to the guys on the street There's two people we blame for everything. The first one is the fire chief or administration. We'll put them in the same category. And the second one is millennials. If we would just eliminate those two, we would eliminate all the problems in the fire service. And that simply is not true Let me say this. Okay. And that's everything that I that I just said that's an organizational issue from top to bottom happens at the company level first. Because you have plenty of officers out there that don't talk to their people, they don't hold their people accountable, they don't give them any direction, they don't give them any training.

Dr. Candace Ashby: They don't follow the policies and procedures. So where does it start and where does it stop? So we can blame the people at the top, but the people at the top came from the people at the bottom. And that's the reason my class is called leadership from the bottom up. I don't, you know, you may or may not. I hope you like your fire chief, but if you don't, what are you doing to change it? Because every single day you walk into firehouse, you're mentoring the future of your organization the future lieutenants, the future firefighters, the future captains, the future chiefs. When are you going to start changing it? Corley: That's a little too introspective for me at the moment. Dr. Candace Ashby: Yeah. Corley: Okay. Preston Lions coming at you. I'm not even I don't get to vet these questions, so I don't even know what's coming at you. like sometimes when I have the bandwidth I read 'em while you're talking, but I'm absolutely absorbed in what you're saying. Chief, what is your advice on convincing command staff that they should bring you in? I imagine they would need to really check their ego for them to even want to connect with you.

Dr. Candace Ashby: Well that is true. as far as I I get I do get a lot of requests and I am very busy, but usually it takes the admin to get on the phone and hear me speak. and I tell 'em. I do not sugarcoat it. I tell them the truth. And if they are not prepared to hear the truth, then do not waste either one of our times. I will not come in because that will actually be a disservice to the people on the ground. Because it gets their hopes up and then the admin doesn't do anything with it. But if they truly, and I don't know a fire chief out there that doesn't want to make their organization better. And in order to do that, you know, one of the reasons that I do what I do is because all of us on the street, we all know where the problems are at. And we know what the problems are with Car One. The problem is none of us tell Car One. And the reason is because we're in a politically charged bureaucracy that we work in and we're in fear of retaliation. Or we don't want to hurt their feelings. We don't like confrontation. So when I come in and ask what these problems are, one, I don't tell a fire chief really anything they don't already know. I just do it from an outside perspective And say start listening to your people. The caveat of what I do, and they listen, the places that I've been do listen to what I have to say. But it's like Guys, and I tell them I've never been in the admin. I'm not in your shoes. And there's a reason that I'm not there. But it you know, my own opinion The thing is, you're going to somebody on the street to help you fix your department. That's my whole point. The people on the street have the answers. We just got to figure out how to tap that value. sitting at the bottom of the organization and let them rise up. If I was in an admin, that's exactly where I'd go is the boots on the ground to help me run that organization. But we're just trained to do this top-down hierarchy you know the span of control and this chain of command but we don't understand how to use the chain of command.

Corley: Wow no I love it man there you go I don't know. Ryan Allison coming at you. Have Chief talk about how the not the loudest 10% speak for the silent majority. You touched on it, so I'm going to the next one. Chief, do you see a correlation in your research between mental health and poor leadership? Or the poor leadership causing mental health issues? Dr. Candace Ashby: Yes, I do, and I would have to defer that to Dina Ali, the chief at Raleigh, because her work is outstanding And she just done an EFO paper on how the connection between leadership and mental health. But I absolutely think that it is at the forefront. The poor leadership. People that got promoted that should have never got promoted. We all have them, but what do we do with them? You know, well it's it's high time that we train them the right way and we hold their ass accountable And until that happens, until we have somebody come in and put their foot down, I don't know if a whole lot's gonna change in the mental health now I'm not in that side of things as far as speaking about it. I've had, you know, my own issues and things like that, but it's like You have where do you go? Or you know, there's two things I won't allow in my battalion and one of is being an asshole and the other one's drama I'm I'm too old for that shit. Get it out of here. I don't need it. But it's it's I would not allow one of my officers to be an asshole to somebody else. If they did, I would come out there and I'd put my foot right square on them. Because we don't have time for that stuff. We have got to lift people up, not tear them down. I think when we don't have the accountability, that leads personally to a lot of the mental health issues because people don't know where to go, they don't know what to do when nobody's being held accountable. It's just like the infamous question, what do I do when I have a poor boss above me? Well, you know what? It sucks. Yeah, I've had plenty of them. And there's not a whole lot personally you're gonna do about it except learn what not to become and then You know, get the time on the job, get smarter, get wiser, get that knowledge, soak it in, and then get your ass in a promotional process Just don't do it too young.

Dr. Candace Ashby: That's one of the things that I said at the recent conference that I was at. Somebody asked a question about if you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice. Right. And I thought about that for a second and I was like, man, what would I tell myself? And I really think I got promoted too young. I got promoted with about f I was between five and six years on a job And that's common. But I think I looking back at it now, I was young, I was dumb, I didn't have the training I didn't have the knowledge necessary. And I believe in looking back at it now, I've caused a lot of damage. And let me give you a description of how that was I work I worked at a department that people wouldn't help each other pick up the host. That when the chief told you it was time to go, you got your ass back in the engine and you left the scene. And I have there's been plenty of times that I was a lieutenant and a captain and they told us to leave and we are getting back on the engine and we're blowing the exhaust on the guys that's still there on the scene and we're laughing as we're leaving that scene because we got to leave first and we didn't have to pick up a stitch of hose. I work at a department now that when it comes time to pick up hose, there's 50 people behind that engine. And that's what the Brotherhood is about. And I can tell my guys Hey, you guys could mark in, you can go in service. They're like, all right, Chief, thanks. You know what they do? They go to the apparatus, they hit the in-service button, they grab their gloves, they go right back, and they help their brothers pick up the hose There's the difference and can you imagine the damage that I caused teaching the young people and the people around me that it's okay? to leave that scene without picking up that hose because I didn't have the mentors to show me. I was just following along with the rest of the crowd. And how incredibly sad that is to say now, all these years later, looking back.

Corley: Woo. Yeah, the tell of two stories. I mean, yeah, it's just yeah, no, I love it. I love the the personal example and the ownership, man. so much. And and I always tell I always tell the guests this, but there's so many comments right now about what you're saying that I can't even touch. just commenting on your commentary. So when you get a chance, go back, go back and see it. It is it is very but I'll stick with the questions If you're watching on Instagram, I realize Instagram is freezing. Instagram is one of the worst places to try and do this stuff. We try, but it's just it is what it is. So I do apologize if it's freezing up on there, but there's not much we can do about it So that being said, watch it on YouTube, watch it on Facebook. On the other side of Josh's question, this is Caleb Pyle coming at you from Instagram. He says, what is the biggest issues that administration has with the firefighters on the floor? And I know they're part of the same six, but what do you commonly hear going back downwards? Dr. Candace Ashby: Well, I think that the min people in the administration, they get frustrated because they're trying to follow, you know, OSHA and their and ESO or ISO and and accreditation and everything and they're wanting to check the boxes and they're not getting, you know, one, they get frustrated because we on the street do not open our email. There's the number one for us. We sent that email out. Nobody's out here reading it. No, you're right. Nothing's been interesting to make us open that open that email up. so that's a part of the communication nightmare. The other part is I think the admin just view us all as not wanting to do anything. And now that being said, I think sometimes we are our own worst enemy when it comes to that because we figured out how do we continue to make more and more and more money to do less and less and less work. And so we've kind of shot ourselves a little bit in the foot, but it's the mentality of the people, not all, but some people in the administration that go in there now. The reason I I think this is a good spot for me to put in why I don't want to be part of administration.

Corley: Okay. Dr. Candace Ashby: Because I've sit back and I've watched it my entire career. People go into the advent. I think the majority of people go in there with a grandiose idea that they're going to put a positive spin or an impact on their organization. Then they get there and they find out that there's not enough time in the day because they are doing the job of 10, 15, 20 people. So they didn't get to go in there and do what they wanted to do because everything's slow as molasses, but now they're being pulled in so many different directions because there's only a few running a multi-million dollar organization So where did the training come from that that they got to go in that administration? They didn't. So now they're learning. Huge learning curve there. It's easy for them to say to us on the street, we don't have time to train you. You have no idea what we're going through. And you wouldn't understand it unless you're into admin. Oh, I understand it I understand it big time. That's why I don't want to be there. But the thing is, why would I want to go in? This is one of my questions. Why would I want to go in to an administration and bust my ass every day, day in and day out, to make that organization better so that people on the street can tell me what a piece of shit I am because I'm in the administration So there's another disconnect in what causes friction between the top and the bottom. Now, that being said, I believe the company officer is more powerful than any fire chief in existence Because that company officer has the power to walk into a firehouse where the majority of the organization lives and say, shut the hell up. And turn it around and start doing the job right. But they don't. Instead, they're usually part of the problem. And that trickles upward to that administration. And they just have this biasness, I'm gonna say, is you know, where they can see us but they can't communicate with us. They don't think that we're smart enough to to hear what they've got to say. They're frustrated with us because they see that we don't do the things that they need to that they want. in the timeline that they want them on, it's because that communication factor, we're not sold on it.

Dr. Candace Ashby: It's like we could care less what the accreditation stickers are on the side of our truck. We don't care about that on the street. They care about that in the office, but not for us. So there's that disconnect because we need to do a better job at understanding What that sticker gets us. Does it get us more money? Does we bring in more trainings? Can we bring in Corley Moore's and Sean Duffy's and Rob Backers? into our organization because now we can apply for grants. If we started understanding more on putting ourselves in the other person's shoes. The top two. Now I I already said the top came from the bottom and it's easier for them to say well I was out there yeah I'm telling you right You forgot where you came from very quickly. Take a vacation day. Hell, I take three days off and I come back and I forget what it's like on shift work. I'm like, damn, this is my first day back You know, and you go in an office for a few years, you forget what it's like on the street. And that we have got to do a better job at emphasizing on both sides. And and I tell the guys on the street, you know I'm not taking up for people in the admin. Like I said, I think everybody deserves a kick in the ass, but we've got to look at it. There's only a handful running that multimillion dollar organization And there's not enough time in the day and I think that's part of the reason that they don't have time to come out and connect with us in the street But what hat why can't the fireman pick up the phone and say, hey chief, we're having this for lunch. You want to come and join us? And bring that chief out to them instead of waiting for the chief to do it, you know, and that's We gotta break those barriers down if we're gonna better our organizations and change the cultures.

Corley: Love it. I mean I got the some questions coming at you some good quick good good questions that I want to get your take on. One is from Christopher Armager. He wants to know chief have you spoke to many agencies that are union What advice do you have to offer to agencies who use their collective bargaining or their their union as the voice between Florida admin and supersede the role of the COs and BCs in problem solving? Where it's kind of shoehorned its way in there. Dr. Candace Ashby: I'm union. I've always been union. I was raised in a union house. My dad was UAW and my brothers were teamsters. I've been part of the union from day one I I luckily work in a very strong union organization and our collective bargaining and our labor negotiations is unfreaking believable. I make the money that I make today and I get the benefits that I get because of the union. However, I think we need to draw that line in the sand of what the union's for. So when I come in and do problem solving, I make it very clear that I'm not there for labor negotiations. If it has to do with money, time, you know, time off, that's what the union's there for. But when it comes to fixing organizational issues, we can do that as human beings without the union. I mean everybody should be union, but like in Indiana it's a right to work state, so not everybody is union.

Corley: Right. Dr. Candace Ashby: But we have got to have that that decision making, that critical thinking that l that higher level of of thought process to start solving problems and if we start solving them at the bottom, by Lord, could you imagine? Like we get mad When the administration gets involved with it with something that happens in the firehouse, but why did it ever get there? Corley: Right. Dr. Candace Ashby: Because somebody didn't do their damn job sitting on the bottom They stepped out of the way and let that shit get to the top. And that should be this stuff that should have been kept in the firehouse. We are all adults. But it then we have the moles and everything else that want to run everything up to administration. Well we need people up there that says, you know what, you've got an officer, you've got a chief, get your ass back down there and get them to solve it. And when you, you know, you tried everything and you can't do it, then come to me But we have gotten into a rut where we don't want to use open, honest communications and have difficult conversations. And that's another element that I'm trying to bring that I think for me personally it's becoming a grandma. you know, I tell my grandkids, pull your head out of your ass and act like you got some damn sense. And I found it to be very effective in the firehouse. And you give people a mulligan just by talking to them You can correct so much, but it's when we don't want to talk and we want to throw paper and we want to throw things around, that doesn't do anybody any good.

Corley: Okay, second one. I love it. I love it. this comes from Stephen McCaffrey. Boole. Question. In this leadership vacuum we have in the fire service, you mentioned mentoring the next leaders as number six of the most common problems. How do you start a captain, BC, DC, or chief program so we break this cycle for the next generation? also, I'm gonna have to listen to the scrap a few times. I can't write fast enough. So yes, absolutely. But go ahead. Dr. Candace Ashby: So how do we start the question was how do we start the basically officer development. Corley: I mean that's basically the crux of the question. Dr. Candace Ashby: All right. Well first off, this is what I believe. I believe we're missing the critical classes that are needed out here. I think there's a few people, such as Alan Brunicini, that had brought years ago a book called Customer Service And where's it been? I mean he wrote the book and obviously, you know, rest in peace, but who where are our customer service classes at? There is a lot of leadership classes out there that's like individually focused, how can I be a better leader? But where are the management 101 classes? And there's plenty of things out there on Facebook and social media that says, oh my gosh, I don't want to be a manager. I want to be a leader. And because you manage things and you lead people, that is true in context. However, leadership is about influencing another person. What happens? I want to be a leader also. I want to be a great leader But what happens when I go to work and I run into somebody that doesn't want to be inspired? Then what do we do? When they say screw you and your leadership force that you're on Then what do we do? Well we've got a whole bunch of officers out here that don't understand management 101. That's when I have to turn my hat around and become a manager. That's called being a boss Now, I know Chase Sargent's book, Buddy to Boss, and it's a great, great manual and a book, and there's people out there that profess you can't be a buddy, you can't be a boss Well, you've got to develop relationships, you've got to build trust, but you, you know, you don't even know I'm the battalion unless you just happen to know it when you walk in But I'm friendly and I want to be friends with everybody, but I also am very comfortable in drawing the line in the sand of being the boss when I need to be the boss.

Dr. Candace Ashby: And I don't sugarcoat it. So we need more classes on management. We need classes on leadership. We need classes on organizational leadership because We don't understand when we become better leaders, how does that affect the organization and organizational behavior? We need effective communication classes. We need classes on how to delegate to other people, how to motivate people here's a big one. Conflict management. Where are those classes at the fire service? Because anytime you have human beings together, you're gonna have conflict. But how do we manage that and when do we let it go? And when do we step in or a catalyst? Human interpersonal relations? Where are those classes at? We don't have interpersonal relations classes because that's fundamentally rooted in communication and how many firefighters have taken effective communications in the fire service. Not talking about fire ground communications, but just how to connect. decision making, critical thinking The different generations. How do we deal in that? How do we deal in driving cultural change and performance improvements? Our team, here's a big one, team building Everything we do in the fire service we do as teams, but how many team building classes are there? And how often do they go on to continue to build high-performing teams? Risk management's another one Project team management. Now, let me pause on this one for a second. This is I. e. committees. So people go up in this talk about the organizational vacuum of the office. Sometimes it it sucks the brain cells out of people. And with all due respect I I they want to have a committee. You want to buy a set of fire gloves, go form a committee. That's administration's way of getting our input on a street But what really happens is you go to FDIC or another fire conference and you walk in and say, Well, I just saw these great gloves and I want to be part of that committee and then you find out it's all smoke and mirrors and the highest ranking person gets what the hell they want. And then you don't get in any more committees after that. So then we lose that. But here's the thing, where is the project team management training? We're not even trained how to work in a committee So how in the world why you see why we're so dysfunctional?

Dr. Candace Ashby: We're not trained in how to do it right? How to run a meeting. You know how many unproductive employee gatherings upset in? It's like what the hell is that? Right. They still go on today, right the use of power and how to use it to move that ball forward. We you know power itself has a negative connotation to it But man, once you understand the power that you hold in your position and the good that it can do, it it changes the world. Budgeting, labor negotiations, how to coach somebody. Where are those classes at? So those are all the classes that I feel that we're missing in officer development that we need to start getting to. And when we have that, that's you know the accountability. Why don't we have accountability fire service? Nobody knows. So right now I'm designing a class on how you discipline somebody and make it stick. You know, the right way. How close is that one? How close is that? I'm I'm right in the middle of my own discipline, so I was speaking from experience, but I'm like this is not how you do it. You don't You gotta quit, you know, going to this freaking book thinking that this book's gonna give you all the answers. Sometimes you have to have common sense. You can't find that shit in a book. You know, it's when you deal with somebody and we've lost it. We just think, oh, if it's not in this book, we can't function, you know, it's like

Corley: I love it. No, Jim Platt summed it up. He said Jim Platt, hey, I where I lost it. It just scrolled by. Too many sound bites. Holy smokes. Love you, Jim But he actually said can we timestamp this entire scrap? And that pretty much sums it up. I mean it really does. new t-shirt from Michael Ramirez a new t-shirt. You can't find that shit in the book. No, absolutely crushing. I can't even keep up with the scrolling of the comments. You have to go back and read them. where was I at? Man. Hits a little too close to home. Great question, Bull. Thank you for that awesome question. All the questions tonight have been on point. And I think it has to do with The quality of the guest. Rob Backer coming at you, you mentioned him earlier, but Rob Backer, Art of Reading Smokey's in here, he asked you, Chief, when dealing with the individual who thinks they're the good person. But everyone else sees them as the bad leader. What strategies have worked for you to help to see the truth so they can start improving? Dr. Candace Ashby: Tell them the truth. So when I go to an organization and I do the problem solving, I'll go in organizationally and I'll sit down with the fire chief and say, okay, here's five or six issues and here's ten to twelve solutions and they're like, oh, that's not bad. Oh yeah, we already knew all this. And then I say, you know what? I just sit down with three days of your organization and I can tell you what their perception is of you. You want to hear it? A hundred percent want to hear. Well yeah, I want to hear it. Can I tell you the truth or do I have to sugarcoat it? No, we want the truth. Okay, you're a micromanager. Or you're an asshole. I told one chief, I said, you're an asshole. That's the way your guys view it. And you need to scale it back a little bit. You know, you're too rough, you're too gruff, you gotta sand those edges off If we don't tell the people the truth, how are they ever supposed to improve? Now, the reason that I feel that I'm, you know, I wasn't always like this. I didn't go in and tell the truth.

Dr. Candace Ashby: Like, oh my gosh, we we can't do that. The reason that I can do it today is say, you know what, I don't think you're performing as a rock star, and I want you to be a rock star is because it comes from a place of love I want them to be so successful, but if they don't see or understand their own shortcoming comings, how are they ever going to improve if we tell everybody else but them? Corley: There you go. I mean it's it's Steve Backer, I hope that answered your question, buddy. Dr. Candace Ashby: He's a rock he's a rock star right there. He just came to my battalion and did smoke reading training and it was a huge hit. Corley: No, no, I love him. I love the class. Dr. Candace Ashby: I do too. And I tell you to go back a a question somebody asking about how to change it. You know, here you got Chief Kurt Isaacson out here. He's doing this battalion chief boot camp that he's got going. He's sold out for like the next year. That just that in itself. I haven't been to the training, so I can't speak about the training. That just shows you how bad the people out here want the training. They want the knowledge. They want to get better. They want to understand their jobs more. So I think there needs to be more Kurt Isaacsons out here that are and and I think there are that's beaten the ground. I know Roseberry there in Texas is created a battalion chief academy. That's something I want to do here in the state of Indiana is I want to create a one week. I was talking actually to Chief Backer about it battalion chiefs academy on this is what it's like to be a battalion chief because most battalions don't understand how they fit between the administration and allegiance to the people and allegiance to the administration. They don't understand that they're stuck in the middle. And they've they've got to understand how to use that power correctly on both sides.

Corley: Wow, I love it, man. I can't wait for the Academy because I'm signing up. I am. I am absolutely I went to one of the early iterations of Chief Ike's week long. It was commanding from the sidelines at the time And it became Battalion Chief Boot Camp and it was amazing then and I'm sure it's only gotten better and heard only good things. Of course I'm a huge fan of Chief Ike. So I and and man, I love it. Okay, you want more questions? Sure. Candace from Dwayne Ustinik. I hope I got it close to right. Candace, when will you write a book? Dr. Candace Ashby: When I can find time. I have so many thoughts in my head of books to write, I don't even know where to start. I actually gotta start writing some articles. I'm terrible at writing because I'm so incredibly busy going to department to department to department around this country that it is I'm still trying to I it's hard for me to say no because usually I get the plea from a fire department like we need your help And if if I feel that I have something in my message that can help pull them, even their people out of the rut to say, quit being, you know, there's two options. You can either be bitter or you can be better. But the one thing that I find too often is people that are stuck in the past. What the you know, what happened last week, last month, last year, what the previous administration done to them. They got promoted, they got demoted, they got this, they got that Let the shit go. It's in the past. I'm sorry whatever happened. Believe me, I've had plenty of ups and downs myself. But you've got to make that decision that today's a new day and you cannot embrace the future it with a a past mentality like that that you're stuck. So get over it. Let's go. That administration's gone. Or maybe it's the current administration, but guess what? I'm gonna prepare the next generation right now So when these guys are out, the next one's ready to go in and they actually get the growth and development of people.

Corley: Love it. There you go, man. Jeff Burns Sr. coming at you. What are the three things to consider when rebuilding the structure of a department that has poor leadership? You get to rebuild it. That's pretty pretty powerful. Dr. Candace Ashby: Well, first and foremost, the communications, accountability, those are your first two. And you gotta get the right people. on the bus. And not only the right people on the bus, but the right people have got to be in the right positions on that bus. And I I say that Because I just saw a post on Facebook recently and it was out of Orlando and it was a two-alarm fire that they had and the fire chief was acknowledging Chief Walt Lewis saying he did a a perfect job on this fire. Well there you go. You got the right person and the right job and that's when everything clicks. If you got to rebuild an organization, you got to rebuild it from the bottom up. You got to get the people ready below the people that are there because they're on their way out the door typically. And you got to get the ones that, and that's going right after the heart of any organization, which is the strength of the company officers. And we have got to get them better. we gotta get them the knowledge and the training. I think most of it is just a fundamental training issue. I don't think it's bad people. If I just don't think they know any better I used to blame so many people. Like, you know, I'd never want to work for this guy or that guy, and I don't agree with a lot of things above me, but I think it's a fundamental training issue. I honestly do. So how do we fix that We start doing the right stuff and showing people it doesn't have to be like this. It can be like you know what we need it to be And and going out. And that's what these young people want. Man, I have never in my life seen firefighters so hungry and thirsty for knowledge and training as these millennials and Gen Z And they're coming in much smarter at a much younger age than what we were. And instead of blaming them, we gotta give it to them. And you got a lot of greats out here that are doing it.

Dr. Candace Ashby: But that's, you know, we've got to keep that going because there's a huge disparity right now in the fire service. There's your veterans, there's a big gap, and then there's young people So most fire departments that I go to, like, oh my gosh, the majority of our departments under 10 years and they don't have the experience, they don't have the depth of knowledge, the breadth of knowledge, give it to them Get figure out ways that we can do peer-to-peer mentoring, that we can pull that information out of these old guys. And sometimes it takes another old guy going up and and smacking them upside the head and say, what are you doing You know, I had a 37-year veteran come into my battalion, the other battalion I was in, and he came in for the last 12 hours of overtime He had he was on the drop, he was ready to retire, and I looked out the window and he's sitting out there in the bay with every compartment door open, showing that probationary firefighter around it, saying, This is what you grab tonight, if this is what we get. And I'm like, man, how do we reproduce more of that right there? Instead of the entitlement. You know, when you say, well, entitlement, we think of millennials, I can show you entitlement in every single generation The people think, well, I've earned it. I can just come in and sit down and not do anything. And look at the number of people that 25, 30 years that don't think they have to take another class You know, I took strategy and tactics back in nineteen ninety. Guess what? That shit's changed. You know. If I just go based on my experience, it it might help You know, the other two shifts they get fires every day, me. It's it doesn't happen every day, so I've got to go get it somewhere else.

Corley: Right. Right. Love it. I have man, I'm telling you, I quit writing down timestamps because Jim Platt said it best. Just timestamp the entire thing. It's gonna be hard to pick one. Sam even said chimed in and said I've seen a lot of scraps I don't know if this isn't the best ever and I I know I'm I'm I have a recency bias I have a recency bias. I have a ton of friends that I consider close friends come on here and I love them because of my love for them. This has been a phenomenal. I mean phenomenal. And then again, again, you have to check out all the stuff they're saying about you. Rob Fisher said agreed, Sam. David Stepp with the clapping hands, boom. David Stender. Oh yes, the ones that don't think they need to keep learning. Yes, 100%. So much good stuff. Let me get one more question at you before I go to some of my other stuff. I'm trying to see I've got a bunch of questions here to choose from What is the best advice? no, let's go with Chief, have you noticed a difference? This comes from Caleb Pyle, last one from Instagram. Chief, have you noticed the difference in morale at departments in which fire chiefs have risen through the ranks versus comparison to outside hires? In your opinion, is there have you anecdotal data on that at all?

Dr. Candace Ashby: I don't have the data on that, only my personal experience that I've experienced both of where I've been And it just, you know, it really just depends on that organization, the size of that organization. Has the well been poisoned or has it not? I don't typically like personally, you know, in the organizations that I've been a part of going to the outside. but at some But sometimes they don't have a choice. If it it just depends on that organization. But no, to answer the question, I don't have the data to support one or the other. But I do know there's a lot of people out here that do jump around department to department as fire chiefs. and that's that's common. Not not any, you know, not good or bad or indifferent. But it's like you you gotta put your foot down and plan them into an organization to help that organization to grow. And if we have outside people coming in, not to say that they're bad, but if we don't think they're there long term, we're not gonna invest in 'em Right. This is just your next stepping stone. And that there creates another difficult thing that we have to get past basically. And and we got the people on the inside. Can they think outside the box. You know, if their only organiz their only experience has been that organization and they've been pipelined up. Can they grow and still look at things from a thousand foot perspective and take other people's, you know, opinions into that And I think is if when we have people that understand the value that the people at the bottom bring and we connect that organization, if that comes from the inside, hallelujah. If it has to be an outsider bringing it in, that's fine. And the only one I could think of, or the greatest example I could think of, is Scott.

Corley: Right. Dr. Candace Ashby: The colony Right. So it just depends on the person or the situation Get that right, mix. Corley: Love it. All right. All right. It's it is freezing up. Chief, is you did freeze up a little bit there, but it looks like it smoothed out, but the gist of it got across. So I'm gonna move to one of my favorite questions I love asking. Book or books that you think firefighters should be reading. I'm a huge reader, so I'm always getting my reading list from my guests. But so go it doesn't have to be firefighter related, it's whatever you think. Dr. Candace Ashby: Okay. The probably the the if I had to pick one that was my favorite that was outside the fire service It's Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. Corley: Hill. Dr. Candace Ashby: And it is back in the 1920s where he goes around and asks people, how did you get rich? And it was a mentality. That's the perspective. That's the power of the mindset, the attitude that each of us have. And that is the foundation in which I built leadership from the bottom up So Think and Grow Rich. I really like Colin Powell's It Work For Me in Life and Leadership. I think there's some awesome takeaways in that. I mean I like the books of Maxwell and Stephen Covey and Simon Sinek and things, but Those they have their place, but ones that really truly connect where you can move you and I can't say enough I mean I like everybody's books, but I can't say enough about Frank Leaves Oh yeah. Because he he built that book off pu pure experience and his taking it through and I loved it because I connected Thinking I feel, and I told him this in Orlando, I said, I feel that you and I are at the same spot, but we took two totally different roads to get there. He had mentors I didn't I had to fight and scratch my way to get to the to the end basis that I'm at now. And I really wish I had those mentors early on.

Corley: Love it. Absolutely love. Love the books. Every one. Every one of them. Absolutely. And so this brings us to the five questions for firefighters. This is the third, actually it's version 3. 3 of the five questions for firefighters. basically the quit the questions are the answers are 100% your opinion. and the points are arbitrary passed out by me with the help of the audience so the way to kick it off is to ask you are you ready for the five questions for firefighters version 3. 3 Dr. Candace Ashby: Yeah. Corley: Are you there? Dr. Candace Ashby: Yes. Yes. Corley: Okay. It's getting choppy. I don't know if you're I don't know if you're getting cut off on your data plan or But we'll go with it. We'll see. It's been amazing scrap, so I hope we can finish strong. Number one, what is the skill that has carried you through your fire service career? Dr. Candace Ashby: How to deal with adversity. And how that you can take that and make you stronger. Corley: So not just dealing, but also overcoming? Dr. Candace Ashby: Oh yeah, yeah, you definitely yeah you gotta take it in stride. So it doesn't matter what comes against you, you gotta find the positive in Yeah, you know, it's like I I was saying earlier, like I'm going through a disciplinary issue right now, so guess what? I'm gonna have a discipline class come out of that. So there's gonna be a positive have come from that nice that hopefully will impact make positive impact in the world and that's what we gotta start looking to do.

Corley: Wow No, I absolutely love it. Max points. Easy max points. Steve Mauch said right off the gate. I'll say it now. Max points. Even before you started. So premature max points, but absolutely max points. I love the overcoming adversity. I love the personal example of saying something good's coming out of this. Number two It's Job Town. It's time. You're in route and responding. You got to think of the scene from Backdraft where he slaps that cassette deck into the or that cassette tape into the deck. What song are you playing while in route? Dr. Candace Ashby: Fire from Ohio players. Corley: Oh, I lost ya. You gotta see it again. Dr. Candace Ashby: Fire. Fire from Ohio. Ohio and backdraft. It's the fire. Fire you know, it's the it's what they're playing in backdraft. I think it's Ohio players. Corley: Ohio players Dr. Candace Ashby: Fire. Corley: Fire. Dr. Candace Ashby: Fire. Corley: Fire. Dr. Candace Ashby: Yeah, that's it. Yep. Corley: Okay. No, you're getting very choppy, so I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm just I'm I'm What's it called? Interpreting the choppiness. I'm interpreting. We're gonna try and make it through. Dr. Candace Ashby: Okay. Corley: Maybe, maybe make it through. Number three, what is your favorite fire service tradition, not including the firehouse kitchen table? Dr. Candace Ashby: Family time. And I say that then You know, the guys doing things that build teamwork like dish games. So if it's not sitting at the table, it's what comes after sitting outside, having a movie on Friday nights. I got the family time.

Corley: I love it. I love it. Bumper time, park bench, all that kind of stuff. Picnic table out front, etc. Yep. I love it. I love it. Cigars, if it's 15 feet away from the door, especially Yeah. Meeting all those title words. Dr. Candace Ashby: I personally like shirts and skins and basketball. Corley: We go to number four and you got max points by the way, one, two and three. The choppiness has seemed to smooth out, so we'll finish up strong And this one is on the clock. This one is on the clock. So let me make sure I do in this right. Yeah, I get to the right place Who are the four? You get one minute to answer. We had to put a clock on it. No honorable mentions. You get four people to put on your Mount Rushmore of the fire service and go. Dr. Candace Ashby: Alive or dead? Doesn't matter. Corley: You're you're about Rushmore. Dr. Candace Ashby: Alan Brunicini. Bobby Halton. Billy Goldfetter. And I'm gonna it's this is I have several names popping through, but I'm going right now with a guy that is just impressing the hell out of me, and that's Chief Jerry Tracy, FDNY Corley: Boom. 27 seconds. Except for the small hesitation between three and four. You almost have the record for fastest ever.

Dr. Candace Ashby: Oh, there you go But that I mean I th that's not that it's a record you want to hold, but it was very so many people that I want to mention and you left me till four, so I have to have the biggest impact on my Mount Rushmore. And I want to to help pave the way like these guys are doing. Corley: No, and it's absolutely it's absolutely not a fair question. Like absolutely and and one minute one minute doesn't make it any better. But we had to because it's such a big question. People would talk about it for 20 minutes at a time with the honorable mentions and rightfully so. But absolute, absolute crushed it on the Mount Rushmore. One of the And because there's two directions people go. They go personal, like the people that had the personal impact, or on the fire service. And so very, very, very beautiful. Final question. It is the original question. It's the question that has never changed It is heavy fire, searchable space. Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on VES? Nozzle. Easy answer. Dr. Candace Ashby: Somebody's gotta put the fire out. Corley: No hesitation whatsoever. There you go, five for five, max points, easy, easy max points.

Dr. Candace Ashby: I go into BES and be a five hundred pounder. Okay, come on boys. Corley: We need some help in here. Dr. Candace Ashby: Right. Corley: absolutely crushed it. Absolutely destroyed the five questions for firefighters. I'm looking here and saying that officially makes it 239 scraps in the books. Chief Candace Ashby, thank you for being with us and sharing your evening. If someone wants to get a hold of you, what is the best way to do so? Dr. Candace Ashby: probably email. It's C Ashby, my first initial last name, C-A-S-H-B-Y, at elitepublicsafety. com. I'll throw that public safety in there, you know, they leavepublicsafety dot com dot to instead of my fire department email And then I'm on Facebook as Candace Key Ashby. I have a Elite Public Safety Facebook page. I have a Key Fire Facebook page my cell phone's on 24-7. The only time I don't answer it is when I'm asleep and it's on do not disturb. I'm in the shower on a shooter. Well no, I answer it on There you go. Corley: I'm gonna repeat I'm gonna I'm gonna repeat your email because it was choppy. C Ashby, like it looks like cash bit, cash buy But Cashby at elitepublicsafety. com. I wanted to say it because it got a little choppy, so I just wanted to repeat it.

Dr. Candace Ashby: Yes, thank you. Corley: Absolutely. Water puts out fire max points. Excellent show. Great scrap. Awesome scrap. Outstanding. Thanks for the family time from Chris Belou. There you go. that officially makes it 239. Housekeeping here. Go to firehousevigilance. com. Join the vigilantes. Five bucks a month. You can sign up for a year. We'll be posting a link to the after party. Candace has agreed to come on and be roasted by the vigilantes. We threaten to do it each and every time, but I think she may give as good as she gets. because they never they never roast. I mean, I'll be honest with you, but that is what it is We are a group of like-minded souls. We are never alone. We are the vigilantes. Go become one. Next week. I don't even have the list up for who's coming. Oh yeah, it is Mike Pascal, man. Mike Pascal. What a what a battalion chief here at OKC Fire. I get to pick his brain next week. So you want to not want to miss it. It's going to be a lot of tactics. A lot of tactics next week. This is going to be a good one And that officially does it. We are there. Thank you, Candace, for sharing all. Man, I feel like we could talk for another two hours about it and still be scratching the surface.

Dr. Candace Ashby: I really appreciate it. This is awesome Corley: No, it was a killer, killer, killer. that's it, audience. Thank you so much for the questions. I I say it like Candace, please go check out all the comments and all the beautiful love you received. from the audience because it was good stuff and I only got to scratch the surface of it. after party we'll be posting the link. Sam should be posting it as we speak. Audience, thank you for being here. Thanks for the great questions. You guys asked some phenomenal questions. You make the scrap magical It would not be what it is without you. It would just be me and Candace talking, which would be fine, but you guys are the secret ingredient that really makes it fun. Remember, mutts don't scrap. I hope the tone stays silent unless it is burning. Dr. Candace Ashby: Stay safe out there. Thank you