Weekly Scrap #276 - Lee Forshner, on resiliency and adversity

Corley: Courley Moore coming at you. Wanted to talk very briefly before the scrap starts tonight. And if you know me, you know that I love the vigilantes. I love the like-minded souls and I'm always looking for ways that we can have more interaction. One of the things that every vigilante says when they join is they're looking to connect with those like-minded souls. They're looking to connect with other vigilantes and people who feel the way they feel. And so I'm constantly looking for ways to make that happen. So far, I love Patreon. I love Patreon for bringing us together, but it hasn't created that the the ability to share information and things the way I wanted. But one thing we did discover was that Discord is integrated into Patreon. So we've been working for the last couple weeks to launch a Discord server where the vigilantes can get together and hang out. Now I'll be the first person to say I am not a tech guru. I'm much better at forcing doors and and hooking ceiling. I'm better at destroying stuff than I am at using technology. But that being said, Discord has so many options that look like they could be phenomenal for the vigilantes and and for our growth and for the fellowship and the camaraderie that we want to share. It's got chatrooms that you can post in. separated by category where we can have great discussions. It's got voice channels you can jump in and have voice discussions with people at the drop of a hat without any without needing to start a a Zoom call or anything. You just drop in and drop out. You can share screens. We have plans. people have plans to share classes that they've built so they can get feedback before they go and teach those classes. I mean, there's so much that could be used for this Discord server, and we're just scratching the surface. So get in, come be a part of it, man. It looks to be an incredible platform. And if you want to be a part of it. Head over to patreon. com slash the vigilantes. Become a part, man. If you're not a vigilante, why not? five bucks a month. You I it you can't even afford a fancy coffee nowadays for five bucks. So five bucks a month, you're you're a member of the like like-minded souls.

Corley: So come be a part. Looking forward to seeing and talking to you in the Discord. Stay safe. Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance, it is weekly scrap number 276. My guest tonight is Lee Forschener. Retired, Palm Beach County, Florida. During Lee's 25 years associated with the fire service, he had opportunities to work in various ranks and also provide a didactic and hands-on education. in many environments. Since retiring from the fire service due to complex PTSD, Lee spent seven years as a touring member of the Irish punk band Dropkick Murphy's This allowed him to share his story and interact with others, providing support and resources in hopes to increase awareness and normalcy to the mental health crisis surrounding our community. You better strap in because tonight scrap is going to be a good one. Welcome my brother, Lee Forsner, as the guest of weekly scrap number 276. Howdy, howdy. All right. Is there anything I missed in the intro? Anything you would like to add? Lee Forschener: Nope. Nothing at all. I think I think you hit hit it all. Corley: Okay. audience, get your questions primed and ready. for Lee, myself, Sam is here. He is watching. He is grabbing your questions and he will be sharing them with me And with that being said, I am going to, there's, yeah, there's already people logging in. There's already people hype. and I'm gonna do the sponsor so we can get right to the scrap. So here we go. Let's talk about those beautiful sponsors And last but not least, Insight Fire Training, Thermography Certified Fire Service Professionals. If you watch the scrap a few couple a couple weeks ago, you saw Andy Starnes come on and absolutely crush it for thermal imager information. But Insight Fire Training specializes in training individuals across the globe in the tactical use of thermal imaging cameras in emergency services. Insight Fire Training developed the world's first thermography-based collegiate firefighter certification and trains firefighters, manufacturers, and industrial professionals across the globe. And with that being said, the sponsors are out of the way, and it's time to get to the scrap. So, Lee. You sent me a list of topics that that not not not just the list of topics. The list of topics was good, but the notes, and I hope we get to touch on I will say so mo I don't know if most is the right word, some of it.

Corley: But I want to lead off with appreciative inquiry it was one of the first questions I asked you. I was like, what is this, what does this actually mean, appreciative inquiry? The power of story to create vulnerability. But I'll let you, I'm just gonna throw that to you and say, what do you mean by appreciative inquiry? Lee Forschener: Whew. So it's the the idea behind it comes from large scale corporations and making cultural shifts, cultural changes within the organization, with people what they call change agents I I found out about it because I was at a point in my career, I was I was in our training division and You know, you got all these guys coming to training that were angry, mad, pissed off, never really wanted to get involved. And Yeah, I stepped back and I was like, what why is that? These guys obviously jumped into the career and were super stoked and excited to go through the academy and to get hired. Here we are five, 10, 15 years into their career, and it's like the world's coming to an end. It's all doom and gloom. Now in the in the background, what I didn't know is that I was one of those people. But here I am focusing on these other ones because you know I'm I'm a captain of a training division and I'm trying to facilitate the best you know we can, but they were always a roadblock. So I I started doing some some digging and I came came across this idea, appreciative inquiry. So I started reading about it and the more I got into it, it was like It was mind-boggling, truthfully, because you're looking to create vulnerability with people and trust. Through story that's relatable that opens them up to give them the idea and thought process to share also, which is how you start affecting change. So as I'm reading about these things and going through, you know, I'm I'm recognizing some of the pieces that are going on in my life, but I end up in Prescott, Arizona for the 19 guys that were killed in the URL fire. And while we're there, you know, I mean media was everywhere. There's there's just people all over the place and and around the fire station that those guys were assigned to was a big fence and had you know t-shirts and and and stuff from from all kinds of departments from all over the world basically and I step back and I'm watching and watching and and this was the first time I really got to implement the idea of this and It was just using story and what it would do to people and how they would interact with me.

Lee Forschener: So there was a gentleman across the street sitting on the corner. And like I said, I mean that you know there's news cameras everywhere around this place. And he's just kind of standing there, arms crossed, older gentleman just watching. And so I took an opportunity. I ran over to him, pulled out a card from my department. And introduced myself and said, you know, hey, thanks for allowing us to invade your area. I'm here playing the bagpipes with all these other guys and silence. And he looked at me and he says, Garrett Zubinger was my grandson. It was just one of the one of the gentlemen that that passed away. Corley: Right. Lee Forschener: For almost 45 minutes, this guy wouldn't stop talking and telling me about his life and both of their lives and the architectural stuff that they did together and building homes and It just opened him up all all because I asked him a question, you know, and and made a statement of, hey, thank you So coming home, I I started see you know I started I started really realizing what story vulnerability and trust can provide if used in the right way. So when I came home, I sat down with some people and we came up with this list of questions and I said, you know, I I want to start interviewing people from my department to see how similar we really are and to see what the answers are and to see. see kind of where where we go with this. And of course, you know, we're we're always looking for a cultural shift in our departments or even the fire service in general. And sure. I mean if if you can figure a way to do that, you know, so I jumped on and we came up, I came up with these 10 questions and like I said, put a video camera in my office and started asking questions from people and the responses I was getting was just it it was just it it really was incredible. Really?

Corley: Okay. Lee Forschener: Yeah, you know, like it well So we we had two guys that that were friends with each other in and out of work working in the same station but didn't know that family members knew each other and that they came from similar areas and that you know There was so many family ties to these guys that they had no idea of until I started asking questions to each of them. And it was just random that it came out in the interviews. Wow. but then I start seeing myself and I'm going, man, I'm I'm the I'm one of these guys that's struggling and Here I am connecting and I'm starting to learn from others that are also obviously struggling, but just don't have the words, the voice, or or anything else to be able to get it out. So as I kept pushing and pushing and reading and reading and reading and trying this, it just it it just became so easy. It It it got to a point where where you know just starting a conversation or listening in and jumping in with a few words would shift the entire conversation to Emotion and having people actually, you know, open up, sit down and want to discuss things further. Instead of, you know, hey, tell me about blah blah blah, you know, and you get this very short answer. And and and that's it, the conversation moves on.

Corley: A to be done. Lee Forschener: Yeah, yeah. This was like, you know, everywhere in between, you know, so They would start to tell me something of the story and and and not to not to relate per se, but to give them some, oh yeah, wow, that that sounds, you know troubling or or how hard was that and how did you overcome that and just just little pieces to kind of steer the conversation to open them up a little bit more and then it was just verbal diarrhea from everybody Wow. It was, yeah, yeah. So when I I I met my wife, go on. Corley: No, I was trying to say is it I I I'm trying to see what it looks like You know, you're describing it. Is it is it empathetic listening? Is it is it a if you can describe it, what's it look like? I know you're giving us examples here, but I was just trying to dig in a little bit to kind of understand the questions and how you, because to me it sounds like you're very organic or good at it and stumbled into it and said, holy crap, this works, you know.

Lee Forschener: Well, I think it's creating relatability with people. So creating a common ground for people to be able to understand that they are Similar or have similar backstories, interactions. Yeah, there's a lot of empathetic listening. But it's also creating that floor, that that space. to safety, trust, respect, you know, allowing vulnerability, showing emotion, not not backing out of it, running away, shutting down, etc. So it's it's it's an interesting concept that that it definitely takes some time to kind of understand really the depths of it and how to to interact and ask questions. Corley: No, especially with a with you know the type A personality rub some dirt on it firefighters that you probably tried it out on. But go ahead, you were talking about your wife before I interrupted. Lee Forschener: So Yeah, no, you're so This is years after all of this stuff started for me. it's a couple years ago. I I hadn't seen or talked to my kids for a little while. because of some things that were going on family wise and her and I were in Breckinridge, Colorado. And we walk into this little place, Blue River Bistro, and we sit down and we're we're like it's it's a long kind of chair, you know, sofa kind of chair that's that's long with table all kinds of tables in between it and then there's chairs on the other side of this. So I sit down on that sofa side and There's like two tables to our left or to the left of me and a table to the right of me and this huge party comes in and sits down. Now I get uncomfortable pretty quickly like that just because of spatial stuff from some of the injury and So I'm like, hey, can we move the table to the right a little bit because there's nobody sitting there? So we do. And a couple minutes later, this couple comes and sits down and they're having conversation. And I look at my wife and I'm like, hey, where are they from? very heavy accent and and we're you know we're going back and forth trying to figure it out and I'm like listen it's it's gotta be like you know South Africa UK or Australia some something like that And so finally they stopped talking. I leaned over and I said, can I ask where you guys are from?

Lee Forschener: It was like 35 minutes later that they told us their entire story of about coming to to the US when they were 18 years old and traveling the coast hitchhiking, they had zero money, working in bars you know and and then going back to the UK to have their kids and they wanted them to see what South Africa was like so they took a six-month road trip down to South Africa and then they realized South Africa really wasn't the place for them to to create a family and establish that family. So they moved to New Mexico. And he did the guy just sat there very quiet the entire time. And you know, his wife was talking and talking and talking and Earlier that day, I was told by somebody I was working with, with my kids also, is sometimes you just gotta shut up and listen. Right. Just shut up and listen. The entire time that's what this guy was doing. Hand, you know, arms crossed, just sitting back, just taking it all in So he finally I I I said something about hey so if we go to South Africa, what's there to do what's there to do? And he leans forward, he's like, You ever heard of safari? It was it was a good chuckle and then that was it. The door opened up and this guy told us everything about him. So when they moved to New Mexico, he there was this lot near where they lived and he would walk by it every day on the way to work And it was a sign that said this could be yours or something of the of the sort. And so he just kept watching and watching and he kept calling the number, calling the number, calling the number. And then finally the people said, hey, okay, come on in. And And he said, you know, it's what was supposed to be a half-hour meeting turned into like a four-hour interview. And when it was all done, they said, we don't feel like we interviewed you, you interviewed us. And he goes, yeah, absolutely. So, you know, of course, I'm curious, and he's turned into this massive business. And so he he owns one of the four of the largest case equipment dealers in the country.

Corley: Oh, okay. Lee Forschener: And it's so powerful. Like just powerful. But walking away from what I learned there was is a the things that I was going through right there with my children, this guy was showing me everything in the beginning of that conversation. And that's where a lot of this really ties together is that you know if you're willing to sit back and and just give people the opportunity to really voice who they are and what they are and what they want in a very nice, trusting and and you know calm way. You can learn so much not only about them, but about what's going on around you. And and and walking away from that and going, hey, hold on. I can I can apply what they were saying here to this portion of my life, and I can apply this. And it's very odd that the doctor that morning told me to shut up, sit back, and listen. And that's all this guy was doing You know, and we walked out there, and and that's that was one of the most profound impacts that this really had. And it was just all because of a question, but his story was so impactful that that I walked away and and pretty much in tears going Wow, like I needed this right now. I needed this to show me that there's not only opportunity and possibility, but the things that are being told to me that I don't want to hear from some of the people. This guy just showed me without saying a word So being able to just open them up with a question and having the opportunity to listen to people's stories, you know, it really gives you some insight into to some bigger pieces of things you might not recognize on a daily basis because you're just too busy going through your own motions or stuck in your head or, you know Dealing with what we deal with.

Corley: No doubt. Lee Forschener: Life. Corley: Life. And on the appre on the appreciative inquiry, like you mentioned the 10 questions, and then that that you you you set it up and you start Talk to me about those because I know the curiosity is up is what are these questions? Honestly. Lee Forschener: So I I did the questions I'm trying to pull the ones up that I sent to you. the the questions that I initially wrote were were pretty straightforward. It was very focused about training and and my department. Corley: Right. Lee Forschener: So It was what do you like about coming to work? what do you enjoy about training? If there was, if there's one piece that you could change in your organization, what would it be? You know, do you see the leaders, do you see all the leadership being the problem or is the problem more inside of you? It was it was a lot of these just very straightforward questions about individuals, you know, just straight individuals. And you know making like I said making changes and what's one thing you know on on the bigger picture of of the fire service that you would like to see that everybody could benefit for or from. And they just morphed and and it just it just kept falling into place. And the more that I would sit there and ask people you know, the the more questions would come up. So I would just start changing them and and changing them. I sat down with some retirees at the time and gave them a totally different set of questions, you know, like when you left the department how did you feel yourself or your your sense of purpose right right what what happened to it You know, personality-wise, did you see any changes? You know, what what's the highest rank that you achieved and was that the highest that you wanted to go or is that where you stopped? you know, little pieces here and there to just try and understand what What did they run up against that we could learn from after their 30 years in the fire service? And you know, here I am coming into it. And nobody ever asks these questions like, hey, hey, teach me. We we we talk about all of this. you know, setting people up for for when they do leave as far as like the job per se, right?

Lee Forschener: But are we setting anybody up mentally to understand what that job really is and how we're doing it and how we're interacting with it? So asking some of these questions to some of these people, it's just the responses and answers were just, man, it's it's it's incredible to hear people talk when the only thing you're used to hearing them say is is either behind a badge or behind you know specific SOPs, SOGs, policies, procedures. And now all of a sudden they're free to speak emotionally and interactively. and from what they see, want, heard, wished, etc. Corley: Oh yeah. Lee Forschener: And you just get all this all this crazy input to it. There was We had a fire chief at the time. And you know, again, when I started doing this stuff, and and he I I saw a lot of things going on in the background from from where I was, my perspective. You know, he he he seemed to be disconnecting. He was he was very involved when he first took the job. And then he he was still involved, but you could tell he a lot of weight was being put on his shoulders. And he really wasn't the same, you know, happy go-lucky kind of interactive, always looking to get involved person. So I sat with him and started asking him some questions. And he, by the third question, sitting in his office, he put a book down and he looked at me and he goes, Can I can I say bad words on this thing?

Corley: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, you talking about him or you? Me. Lee Forschener: I'm gonna say it. No, no, yeah, yeah. This is scrap. You're good. He goes, he goes, he goes, I don't know how to fucking answer you And I said, what do you mean? He goes, I I'm gonna lie to you in every question. And I said, talk to me. And he's like, well, I can sit here and tell you that I love this and I love that. And he goes, but I fucking hate it You know, he goes, I can sit here and tell you that my home life is so amazing because here I am running the department and everything's on, you know, on my terms, but it's not. He goes, so if you want me to fill your head with nonsense, I will. He goes, but if you want real answers, I need 24 hours to answer them. It's about six weeks later I get a card in the mail. And it was just a thank you card. And his wife had written it saying, thanks for returning Steve to our family. Corley: Oh wow. Lee Forschener: Wow. I have it still and every once in a while, you know, I'll look at it. But it it was just the power of a story, man, the power of a question. just hitting somebody with it and saying, come on, like be you, like like be you. Have you seen Ted Lasso? Oh yeah. Well not all the seasons, but so Oklahoma, right? When it when he says Oklahoma, that's truth. And that's kind of what appreciative inquiry is to me.

Corley: me it's you gotta speak the truth man and and you just just be you get to learn a lot from you that way oh I love it brother I absolutely love it perceptions versus knowledge well yeah well I got a question coming at you it's it says ask him when he has picking this damn piano up from Rick Forge. Listen, Rick. Lee Forschener: It'll be this week some point. There you go. There's the first answer. The first question from the audience. He bombarded me with with that the other day. Hey, you want a piano? So I gotta go home and check to see if we can put it somewhere. I can't make that decision. The inside of the house isn't mine. The outside is, the inside's not. Corley: Right perceptions versus knowledge. How we see each other versus how we actually know each other. And I'm No, go ahead. Lee Forschener: I'm gonna get into some story here of myself. Corley: No, absolutely. Lee Forschener: 2014, I was in at this point I was in EAP for about two years. Marriage counseling up and down, going through all kinds of crazy stuff. And You know, on the outside, I I was taking everything on that I could. You know, I'm I'm running as a a a backup PIO where you know our department at the time was averaging 120,000,000 calls a year. We have one PIO that's running all of this stuff, which is that's a whole another story. It's it's ridiculous, right? Like you're really hurting people that way So I I took that on them I'm running all of our fire training for the for the department. I'm playing the bagpipes all over the country I'm teaching all over the country. And I'm taking more and more and more and more on in order to, you know, not slow myself down, but to slow the brain down from all of the nonsense that was you know, brought in from some of the calls and from some of the leadership issues and from some of the the other problems that we had going on at home or kids, et cetera. So I just take more on and the more I piled on, the more I could handle, the more I could handle, you know The less I had to think about the nonsense. So in March of twenty fourteen I I get I get a call about you know dropkick and hey would you be interested if they ever needed somebody to fill in?

Lee Forschener: I was like, yeah, ha ha ha. You know Right. But at the time, like I said, EAP, I'm going through all these crazy things at home and you know the the job's really beating me up and I'm not sleeping and I'm and I've been having nightmares for a long time. Trying to distance myself in some ways, but take on more in the other ways. So I finally get diagnosed complex complex post-traumatic stress. And the bad thing kind of happened just fall in my lap at that point. And instead of outing myself because of shame, guilt, and the perceptions of what I thought was going to be brought onto my shoulders, I used the band as an escape. So here I am traveling the world. At first I took six weeks off. I burned every piece of comp time, sick time, vacation time. I demoted myself from the training division back out into the street to get the time off and and I noticed that holy cow like Like I'm I'm a human again, you know, I'm not I'm not I'm not wrapped around the fire service right now while I'm walking around in different countries in Europe for six weeks And I came home and then I was, you know, I was back to work and I would go back out on tour and come back to work and go back out on tour. And now by this point is where the perceptions start. So now I'm starting to hear all the stuff. Oh, this fucking guy. You know, he can go play in a band, but he can't come to work.

Corley: Right. Lee Forschener: So then November of 2014, I was pulled. after an incident on a call, I made some pretty poor decisions and said some things to somebody that I shouldn't have. And the next day I happened to have therapy the next day and my therapist is like, yeah, so I think you're done for a while. So I was pulled right there. But I continued to tour because that was my outlet. That was a way for me to stay connected in in in in life in the sense of breathing. Like mentally I wasn't there, but I was not trying to kill myself at that point. You know, I go out and I tour and I'm like, okay, I'd step out in front of these people and I could play music and it was just, it was soothing. It was soothing for me. Unfortunately, the perceptions at home, totally different story, right? So when we look at that on a bigger picture, everywhere we go, right? It doesn't matter what fire department. You can be sitting next to somebody and the perception of this guy is, oh man, he's a hard worker, or you know, oh, this guy's having trouble here, or this is happening. But we never dive into the actual reasons of posity, negativity, anger. you know, any of these other things that are going on and the perceptions seem to outweigh any of the realities in any of these situations. So here I am being told, oh, you're you're this freaking multimillion dollar or multimillionaire recording artist that you know, walked away from the fire service and is on disability and is robbing the system. When in all actuality, I was coming home from tour and sticking a gun in my mouth So the perceptions versus knowledge. So what are we doing about that? Because even to this day, there's still some people from my department specifically that that have this idea of what really is going on with me. But no they've never sat and said, hey, tell me like what's up, man. Even with all the stuff that we've had in our department go on with with some suicides and some some other just not good stuff, you know, and it it's Until you really sit down and understand a person and give them the opportunity to speak and give them the opportunity to voice who they really are and give them a place that is not only safe.

Lee Forschener: but trustworthy and and and you know with with a sense of like compassion right you you're never gonna really understand what these people are doing right so I I say it now it's like how many how many people say you I at the table in the in in the station, right? Cup of coffee, ha ha, we're laughing and joking. Go around the table and tell me every one of their spouses' names and birthdays Well, why the fuck can't we do that? Like these you you can't have trust with people that you can't, you know, involve yourself with and understand them. You know, th this idea of trust it on on the big picture of what we do We go to work, brother, you got me. I trust you, I trust you, I trust you, but I know nothing the fuck about you when I walk out of the door. So how do you is that really trust or is that just that expectation of trust because we both have a badge and a uniform on? So when I started looking at these things and started trying to understand them, you know, it's like the perceptions of of somebody sitting next to you or man, he's so happy. That was me. I was taking on all this stuff. I was capable. I'm doing all this training. I'm teaching. I'm talking. I'm I'm playing the bagpipes. In the meantime, in my head, it's like, you're the biggest failure that's ever walked the face of this earth. Your family's falling apart. Your kids hate you. Your wife hates you. Like, this is all my fault. But it all anybody saw was me just having fun and being me, right? Hiding everything, compartmentalizing and not not really being me. And I was never given, in most of those situations, I was never given the opportunity to really say This is who I am and I need fucking help.

Corley: Right. Woof. yeah. That's hard for me too. Yeah, sorry. no, absolutely, dude. And there's so much you say that I hope I don't know if it's just me you're hitting in the gut, but I hope the audience that's hearing it and the ones that hear the recording understand like that there's a lot there to unpack and And then the vulner like you said, the power of vulnerability and story. suicide. The I am the problem and cause for everything. But you just touched on it right there at the end, especially. You know, your mindset. No one can relate. I'm alone on that island. Lee Forschener: Yeah, you know in in in the heat of the moment of that, it's like Like well let me say it like this. Unfortunately somebody I knew took his life a couple weeks ago. And he he was somebody that in the in the beginning of my stuff I had a lot of conversation with because he He he he did a lot of interacting with the idea of prevention. You know, what stress looks like in in the service and preventing those ideations, thoughts from coming reality. And unfortunately, he took his life. And just in the past 24 hours, I've had a few people say to me, you know, what why would he do that? Like what what could have been that bad? And those are always the questions that people ask, right? Like you never would have known. I I you just, you're right, you never will, but When you're in that hole and nothing stops that slide deck from going round and round and round and round, whether it's a call or you know, whether it's the explosion you just had from anger because you haven't decompressed from the past, you know, 48 hours of being at work or Because it was a trigger of of a kid crying and that's the last thing you had at work and you know all these little things. And when that shit's swirling in your mind, it's like You can't stop that shit. So you are the creator of that issue at that point in your own mind. You you are the problem because everything would be a lot better if you hadn't come home and gotten pissed off, or if you hadn't opened your mouth, or if you had done this one thing, it you wouldn't have that slide going round and round in your head from that call You know, so so that second guessing idea and and you know beating yourself up, you you you're literally alone on that island.

Lee Forschener: Unfortunately, again, you know, the machismo in the in this in the fire service for so long and the ideas of suck it up and you know deal with it and you know we got to run another call, shut up and It's gotten us to a point where why would I want to talk to anybody? The shame of me feeling this way is so intense because nobody else that I'm looking at feels this way Because everybody else has a smile on their face, just like I did. So so how am I gonna come to the table and say, hey, I got a problem when I feel guilty, but I'm full of shame. I I feel like a failure constantly. I created this stuff because of Whether it was a poor decision or no decision at all because of a reaction, it's on all my shoulders. So of course, me leaving, taking myself out of the equation is ultimately the fix. And when that becomes the only fix and the only tool you have in your toolbox, it is so easy to sit right there and go, I mean, why not? Corley: Yeah. Lee Forschener: I'm causing everything. This is this is just how it is. It needs to stop.

Corley: No, and and yeah, the why asking for help is impeded. And I love what you sent this. By the phone weighing 1,000 pounds. Lee Forschener: Man, that phone, that's the heaviest thing you'll ever pick up when you're depressed. It's it it really is. It it it is Because again, it comes back to shame, right? It comes back to the ability to be vulnerable and still be a man in front of another man. How can I cry in front of a man and still feel like I have balls enough to be a man You know, now today I know that that's not in any way true. Corley: Right. Lee Forschener: But at the time and when a lot of when a lot of us are going through these situations, if we get to that point, it's That's all that's there. There is no ability to rationalize or reason with you're human and you're allowed to have emotions and express them. You know, so in order to pick it up and and and say, hey, I'm fucked up right now. Well, hey, that that's admitting to something that is not really something that people want to talk about. Nine times out of ten, you say that to somebody and they're gonna go, so hey, you want to go get a beer?

Corley: Yeah, let me know, let me know if I can do something. Lee Forschener: You know, yeah. Corley: Or hey, I'm here for you, buddy. Let's Lee Forschener: Yeah. And and I I can't I can't say anything bad about that, right? Because that you just don't know, right? And we're we're not we're not educating ourselves in that situation and in a way to be able to interact and communicate appreciative inquiry trustful. vulnerability, you know, and and emotion. We're not doing that enough. So that phone, that phone is the heaviest thing you'll ever touch. I I was thrown out of a psychiatrist's office. in the beginning of all my stuff. And whew, that was a wild one. I went there because of everything that's going on. I knew I needed help. You know, 2014, you know, although it wasn't that long ago, 10 years is 10 years. And in the mental health side of the fire service, 10 years is, you know know light years from where we were. So for me saying I had an issue and trying to talk about it and walking into psychiatrist's office and and and all these other places, they're like, yeah, yeah, right, ha ha. Like get out. This is some bullshit. so the psychiatrist, I sat down, he goes, when's the last time you shot heroin? I mean these are literally the questions that he asked me. I said, I haven't. When's the last time you did Coke? I haven't. When was your last drink? I stopped drinking He goes, get the fuck out of my office. I said, excuse me? He goes, get the fuck out. Now at this point I I broke down, full on tears, couldn't control myself. And I'm walking out just confused. I'm like, what what just happened?

Corley: Right. Lee Forschener: I I'm just trying to explain. Like you're asking me questions. I I have no idea what just went on. So I walk out of the office, I got in my car, and I said, you know what All right. That's it. Obviously this is me. This is just me. So that there's that mindset, right? It's that easy. It's that easy. It's right there. Hey, I had a I had a doctor just tell me that I'm a fucking idiot You know, and so I'm done. Corley: I probably how much did it take in the first place to reach out to try and get help, you know, and and and in the first place and to be greeted with that You know, is just in in and again, like you said, light years, 10 years ago was 10, you know, light years. So hopefully, I mean, I can only imagine. I got a question coming at you, two of them actually. because you touched on it there with the heroin and coat. How did you avoid the pitfalls of booze and drugs in your environment and situation? I'm sure you've heard that before. Lee Forschener: I can't say that I drank a lot, but I drank a lot in the beginning, you know, before before I realized that there was an issue, like a true issue you know I could say probably more social so social drinking, but it was heavy. and then, you know, that just turned into coming home every day and filling up a tumbler of jack and sitting down on my couch and trying to work on some stuff or work or you know started smoking pot like heavily uncontrollably for for a long time also it was just an escape so i kind of went down those paths but at the same time it was when i started touring with the band is when everything stopped Something quite a few of the guys in the band are sober and have been for a long time. So to see them being successful in those senses and and to know that the bus that I was on was with most of the sober guys. So I I couldn't have the shit around me. Like it it just wasn't it I felt very uncomfortable because I I didn't know them well enough at this point And I wanted to disconnect and kind of try and get away from some of that stuff.

Lee Forschener: So, you know, that is really kind of how I walked away from it, is is I I just stepped back and was like, no, I I this is going to kill me and I'm gonna make I mean alcohol got me in a lot of trouble a lot of times, right? I made some really pissed poor decisions and really fucked some shit up because of it. So I I I guess the band was was one of those deterring factors to kind of pull me away from it and say, you know, that you don't need this shit. Like it's just not it's not the outlet that you that you expect or or that you think it's gonna be. You know, it's right it'll stifle it'll stifle the shit for a little while, but it's gonna come back up and it's gonna be worse. So it was tough though. It was it was tough. There was there were some days, man. It was it was tough Corley: No, that's crazy. The actual reversal of the band is what helped you kind of stay away as opposed to the the typical story. Post-traumatic growth, there is hope. Because this is a heavy topic. Don't get me wrong. This is a heavy topic, but I love that there is hope learning about the tools that work, especially after injury, you know, and and the growth. talk to me about putting in the work. Whew.

Lee Forschener: Man, it's been 10 years since since my diagnosis. Ten years of weekly therapy, and I no matter where I was in the world, I have never missed an appointment. That's work. trusting and well finding doctors and and and a a a core of people healthcare professional that you you can trust and and that are gonna interact with you in your best interest and that you know that and you know that they are really there kind of you know trying to pick you up and get your pieces back together Man, this work ain't easy. You know, it and it and it's it there's there's never a day that's gonna stop. But you know, the the idea of a tribe, a community, surrounding yourself with people that are relatable, whether it's the same situations, whether it's the same calls, whether whether it's just it's just struggle, right? We all struggle in life and it's normalizing that fact and being around them And being around people like that that were also willing to normalize, again, the power of story, right? We get into it, and that's that that's where a lot of this goes into. Is being being able to focus on learning from each other. It's crazy. It's crazy to sit here right now on this show. A few years ago I did another podcast and I happened to start listening to it a few days ago again, which is a few years ago that I did it. I stopped it about 35 minutes in and I couldn't listen to it anymore because I could hear in my voice how broken I really was.

Corley: Wow. Lee Forschener: And I mean at the time I knew it, but I didn't know it, if that makes sense. Corley: No, yeah. Lee Forschener: You know, so the the work that you're the work that I had to put in, the work that a lot of us have to put in in order to get past some of these pieces is is A, having hope, right? Hope that tomorrow is going to be different. Hope that five minutes from now is going to be better and different. But having the hope is not what's gonna make that change. It's having those people around you that are supporting you, the people around you pushing you. A lot of times it's shit you don't want to hear, right? But being willing to accept the fact that they are seeing something from a perspective that you can't. You know, I I taught paramedic paramedic school for a while. We'd be in the in the middle of doing these, you know, big medical scenarios and you get these students that are down on the floor and they're humping on somebody's chest and you know you ask them a drug dose question and they they literally shit them. themselves right there. They can't answer nothing. They're fumbling all over everything. But you take the same person, you say, hold on, hit pause. Go to the back of the classroom, stand on a chair, and look at this again. And all of a sudden, all the answers are right there. So in these situations where you have people on the outside and that, you know, your community, whether it's your doctors, your therapists, but specifically other people, peers, specifically peers that you trust. telling you, hey man, just keep going. Like you're you're on the path. You need to do this. That's where the healing and the growth really starts to come in. I I didn't believe it for a long time. There's well shit, Rick, Mr. Piano over there. he he was truthfully one of the most instrumental people of keeping me alive. And still to this day, he he he's just he he's an inspiration, man. Like the way he approaches stuff. And I know we all have our issues and we all have our ups and downs, right? But But but the fact that I know no matter what I could always turn to him and he was gonna he was gonna shoot me straight you know listen you got to do this now you fucked up here but you gotta do this you know so it's possible.

Lee Forschener: And today, shit, man, like there's so many other therapeutic regiments that that are going on that we have some availability to whether it's you know micro-dosing with with psychedelics. I do ketamine treatment every two weeks. As a matter of fact, I had my treatment today, which That was a huge life-altering event for me to really kind of get myself back on the idea of holy shit, the sky's blue and I'm capable. Corley: Wow. Lee Forschener: so yeah, growth, it's it's like man, look at 10 years. I lost out of 10 years, I can tell you there's there's a good six years that I couldn't tell you anything happened. Nothing. It's just gone. You know, but but the one thing that didn't change was I knew that I I couldn't walk away from my kids. And I I didn't want to just stop. You know, I after I got over the first couple attempts of suicide or the ideas and sitting there and toying with it, the ideations and having a plan and having everything picked out and knowing exactly how I was gonna do it and Going a little further a few times, it was I realized that you know that wasn't the solution, so I only had one other solution, and that was the start. getting better and if I didn't get better then what good am I doing my kids or anybody else I'm around like you know being negative Nelly all the time and it's like It's hard to get out of that that little routine. But there's so much more to offer that when we start realizing how much growth potential we have just as human beings, let alone people that have have these injuries. Phew. Yeah. No. Life can be pretty fucking incredible.

Corley: No, and I love that part of the message. I do. Because all of it, all of it needs to be spoken because So people know they're not alone. People absolutely know that they're not alone. But I love the the message at the end that it can be beautiful. It can be beautiful because I think that's such an important part of it. I had a Where is it at? I just lost it. How do you start from my crayon to how do you start the conversation of asking for help? Yeah. Lee Forschener: Maybe it doesn't have to be you asking for help, you know. So I mean there there's a hundred ways to say this, but but sometimes just again Story. Hey, I had this hiccup, you know, or I ran this call, or you know, hey, at home. So so recently a couple years ago somebody I know was was was having some tough times with with divorce and stuff like that. And and you could see it all over the place, right? And so so my lead-in was, hey, you know when I I I I see and I know some of the things you're going through. You know, when I got divorced, this is how it looked and and this is kind of what what these things went on. And you know, you you you're allowing yourself to to to be a little bit vulnerable, but then it it starts to draw out. Again, it's right back to that whole the whole power of story thing. Right. But asking for help in that sense, if you if you're just gonna come out, just come out and say it. Hey, listen, I think I'm fucked up. Out of all the ways that I can say that this probably the the best to get it out for everybody is exactly that. Now finding your audience may be a little bit difficult sometimes. times, right? But but there's people around you that you can trust. Whether it's a family member, whether it's somebody in the fire service, whether it's you know a a friend that has nothing to do with the fire service shit, if it's There's random groups on you know that we can find on social media. Just the first time you say it is all you need. Because once it comes out the first time, that that shame starts diminishing in the sense of Knowing who you can talk to.

Lee Forschener: You know, and once once you get that message out the first couple times, man, it's like, what does it matter anymore? Like, yeah, okay, I don't want these people to know. So I'm gonna stay over here until I'm comfortable. you know a lot of this comes to trust oh yeah i was gonna i was i I have a yeah so I I kinda in my house we we use a thing for trust and and it and it goes all across the board right but there's a re a lady researcher of emotions she calls herself right and it's brene brown yeah and she does a thing on trust. So she sh she has a a TED talk that's power of vulnerability, but it's called but she does this other one called trust braving. And she she uses the braving as a mnemonic Right. And and she's talking about her her daughter having friends and interacting with them and how you know her daughter's always putting forth all this effort and not getting much back. return. So she used marbles to equivalate what this looked like. So every time you have somebody that you can't trust, they're stealing your marbles. You can't get them back. Right? So you're just willingly handing them to them and they're not putting shit back into your vase. But when you have a trusting relationship, those marbles go both ways constantly. So the mnemonic is is you know boundaries, reliability, accountability, vault, integrity, non-judgmental, generosity. But the V, that vault thing in the fire service is a thing that we fail the most at.

Corley: Okay. Lee Forschener: Telefriend, telephone, telephone. Corley: Yeah. Lee Forschener: Telegram and I don't even think it's intentional. Corley: The vault, just to be just to be clear, the vault is the ability the confidentiality. Lee Forschener: Confidentiality. Corley: Okay, okay. Lee Forschener: Because that's what creates trust, right? If I come to you and say, hey, listen, you know, my I painted my fingernails red because of, you know, and and And you just don't want that to know. That's something I'm sharing with you and you only. Corley: And I run the station three and I'm like, hey, he check out what lead is. Oh, it's still a firefighter. Lee Forschener: Right. So If you can't have that vault, if you can't keep stuff in, if you can't hold on to something that somebody is telling you, then how are people going to ever approach you? You know, and and it goes it goes kind of both ways, right? And At this point in in my life being involved but stepped away from the fire service for 10 years, I don't even think it's intentional anymore from a lot of these people that run around and and and and backstab it if you will or throw pieces of information out or shame or guilt. I don't think it's intentional. I think partial partially learned behavior, but it's also, I think it also comes down to I'm struggling internally and this is going to deflect off my shoulders. Yeah. So when you ask for help, it's like, you know, the people that run around the most and and I feel like the people that are running around the most talking the most shit are the ones that are really struggling the most. Hurting the most. I was an asshole for a long time and I ran my mouth about everything. You know, and and looking back at it now and I'm like, man, why why? I I was just trying to be accepted. I was just I I didn't want the spotlight to be on me, to be like, oh, what's wrong with you? Right. You know, so so when you get to that point of asking for help, it's just who can you trust? And and if you if there's nobody that you can trust, then find somebody. Because there's plenty of people on the street. Shit, you can walk up and just say, hey man, I'm having a bad day. And you'd be surprised how many people are like, no shit, me too.

Corley: Bonding. Just the vulnerability of the power of stories. George. And and I I feel like that's a mentor relationship to you. I feel like you can correct me if I'm incorrect in that. But how do you and you talked about the power of peers and and being able to talk to your peers and and that accountability from your peers How do you f and I know the answer is trust on on some level, but how do you foster that point to where like you said Rick could be very candid with you and tell you you need to do this, brother? You know? How do you again there's is it I hope is my question making sense? Like how do you how do you get from firefighters who don't talk to each other, talk shit on each other to a point where you can you can Be vulnerable and be the vault. How do you encourage that? How do you make it happen? What's the magic formula? Lee Forschener: I don't think I can't say that there's an actual magic formula. What I can say is just being human Like it nor normalizing actual behavior and not this idea of what has been plastered over movies and TV shows of what we are. You know, there's not one person in this world that's walking the the earth that doesn't have some form of emotion. You know, so so remembering that although we may not see the same things the same ways and we we have differences of opinions and and and and and come from different areas, we're all built the same internally. So I mean I g I guess in some ways you just gotta trust yourself to know that you know at some point you putting yourself out there is that's all you got, you know. Rick and I had a had a long history of fucking with each other. But you know, not everybody has that in somebody that they can they can turn to in the situation like I did. but it's just finding that it's just finding somebody and you know it it I feel like at that at this point because of a lot of the transitions over the years with the idea of mental health stuff starting to become very forefront Right. It would take a real douchebag to not sit down with somebody.

Lee Forschener: You know, and although yeah, they are around, I guess. Just sitting down and talking. You know, like I said earlier, we're all great at it, right? I'm gonna grab a cup of coffee and sit down at a table. Well in instead of talking about, you know, whatever social media posts and whatever nonsense, like, hey man, like I I'm uncomfortable, you know, this is some of the shit that's going on with me. And you'd be surprised of of how easy those avenues of conversation. can open up really quickly with people that you never expected the ability to have. I hope that answered some of your questions. Corley: No, no, I dude, it's been it's been you got the problem with the with it being this interesting. Say interesting is my brain is going a thousand miles an hour as you're talking and and and so I'm not sure I'm giving you the d the the attention of the host you deserve. Evan Evan Schatzberg wants to know Lee And it's a great question. I do love this question, especially with your experience and and dealing with it and what you've been through. What can be done to stop the sti the stigma? And I know that's a very broad question, but I would like to hear from your perspective, you know, if you had a magic wand, what would you What would you want everybody in the audience and everybody that listens to this podcast to try and start doing?

Lee Forschener: Whew. You know those notes I sent you earlier? The magic wand, I think the magic wand is to bring everybody back to being infants again and realizing that we all needed nurturing from day one to grow in any way, shape, or form You know, it's if if we took that idea of being an infant and having somebody take care of us and move that along the lines to being an adult and having people that we can rely on to help us. I think you'd see a lot more change. And again, the the ability to be real, like just be fucking real. Like Be real. There's struggles. There's there's there's great days, there's bad days. Everybody has them. I think the magic wand approach is truthfully taking the nonsense out of our culture and society today to depict every piece of negativity that every that that goes on around us You know, when when you look at how we're brought up, it's it's that idea of deficit thinking, right? Every test we take is you're always looking for the wrong. Everything we do is trained to look for the bad. Now put yourself in the fire service, the medical field. There you don't start off looking at all the good shit that's going on. You know, you you pull up to a scene and it's what the fuck can I do to correct this nasty shit that's going on?

Corley: Right, right. Lee Forschener: Now take that and just reverse it slightly when we get back to the station where we interact with people in general. It's, hey, what can we do better that we're doing right already? You know, so the the the magic wand approach, I think, is just Fuck be human like can we all remember that we're the same in in that sense? Yeah, we think differently. Some of us are assholes, some of us aren't But we all have the same needs, you know. It's that whole Mazos hierarchy right there. And if you can't meet those fucking needs, man, you can't survive. And if you can't survive, then what the fuck good are we doing for each other? Evan, I hope that answered your question. Corley: That was a great great answer, man. Absolutely. I want you to explain this because we kinda you kinda touched on it with the the appreciative inquiry, but I still you said because the notes you sent me, I wanted to touch on them. It's it's fascinating to me as I read through them. But it because some of them are I I know they're like almost like a stream of consciousness that you type these out. But it says, it says, I'm gonna read it just like it is. It says use a box. Ask anonymous written answers to these questions and put in a lockbox with no identifiers to be read. So I I have to ask you to explain that process there, and then I can I can go over a few of the questions that that that are that are written there

Lee Forschener: So the idea, again, this all came from the appreciative inquiry idea and and thought process. If you were to take a box, right, and and it's just like a like a like a polling box. for votes or whatever. And there's no identifiers, no rank, no name, no nothing, no station. You put it in a central location, whether it's in the middle of a fucking park in your city. Doesn't matter. Write the shit down and put it in there. And then pull them out and let's read them together. Nobody knows where they came from, right? It's like it's like that idea of two tr two truths and a lie in a group of people, right? You everybody takes a piece of paper, you write down two truths and one lie. And then you go around and this is something in one of the programs that I went through, Save a Warrior, some years ago that we did And it was trying to identify like who could this be in the room. And not that we're looking to identify who this person is, but we're looking to identify what the problem is here. Like what's the problem? What are we writing down? How many people are writing the same shit? And what can we do to fix it And a lot of people are very scared to have a voice or to voice themselves because of retaliation or fear of judgment, toxic cultures, everything.

Corley: Yeah. Lee Forschener: Yeah, exactly. So if you take all your shit, you put it in a box and now you have this non-judgmental area, right? To to be able to read and and work through these things with a whiteboard, let's say, in the background, you can write all this stuff down. You have 30 people. all contributed and now are all coming out because nobody knows who the fuck these things are coming from. You just have this opportunity to really start affecting that cultural shift, right? That cultural change because now everybody has buy-in, no matter who asked the question. Corley: All right. I I love I think the concept is is I'm gonna read these 10 questions that you sent me. If you don't mind. If you don't mind. I want people to hear them so they can run back this section of the podcast and write them down if they want want to or pause the YouTube video or whatever. But these are the questions you write down the answers to these anonymously and put them in the box. But these questions here just to just to spark those conversations, the vulnerable conversations. And I love it. Number one, biggest concern when coming to work. Number two, this is not a top 10 list, by the way. This is just a the numbered numbered list. Do you trust administration? Number three, how do you practice self-care? I love that. When I was reading this, I was like, how do I practice self-care? You know what I'm saying? I sat there and contemplated it.

Lee Forschener: Many people can't answer that. Corley: No, and I was like, does my gym time count? Or do is that more of a me being my flatula, my like punishing myself, you know what I'm saying? number four, if you could make a change within the department. Which would create a positive outcome when dealing with different personalities, what would that be? Number five, do you read I love the the the bluntness of that one. Do you read? Number six, do you discuss work with your family? List, oh number seven, sorry, I want to break them up. List two hobbies or interest you have outside of the fire department. Number eight, list a personal goal you would like to obtain within your career in and out of work. Number nine, do you find it difficult to adjust to days off versus days on? With having to function quickly or have expectations that others must move at your pace and complete tasks the way you see them that need to be done. And number 10, what one item, if given the chance, you would change if you were chief? Dude, I loved when I read through that list, man, it was cause some of them are addressing helplessness and lack of control. Some of them are addressing just your self-perception. your like the self-quare care question. I actually stopped me when I was reading it. And I was Just like, hold on a second. It made me contemplate. And anyway, so I wanted to share those with everybody, man, because I challenge everybody to just sit down with those questions and answer them yourself, first of all. But then, man, bring them up, do the anonymous thing and bring them up with your crew and sit around the kitchen table. Pull one out and discuss it.

Lee Forschener: Mm-hmm. They're hard to answer. And you know, there's so many more that I have, right? That was just a a quick 10 that I threw at you, but Okay. Corley: The the those specifically Do you have any that are just some that that stop you? I don't want to put you on the spot to say rattle off some more, but do you have any that kind of hit you in the gut that you love or Lee Forschener: Well I think the ones that I love are are actually in that. Corley: Okay. Lee Forschener: And and the reason is is because when when when I was writing those specifically or those were coming out, you know, organically, it was When I was working, goals in and out of the fire service were be better in the fire service. You know, so that was the only goal I had, right? So so a lot of those a lot of those definitely surrounded myself, looking at myself through my years and I had no goals outside You know, the the the my wife will will will tell you all day long right now that the the question about the expectation of people moving and doing things at that same speed as as if I'm at work That's something I struggle with still to this day. And I ain't been to work in 10 years. Right. You know, so a lot of those came from that, but I Man, it's like there's so many opportunities and so many different questions that you can ask people and and to really sit down as a crew and learn about each other, the you know, the hobbies, like My hobbies were playing the bagpipes and going to fires, like you know, running medical calls and training. Like that's just what it was.

Corley: Right. And there's a lot of people that that you just described, a lot of especially a lot of scrap listeners And I'm not and we take pride in it. That's the other part of it. Absolutely. Right. Lee Forschener: And I don't disagree with taking pride in it, right? But for me. Corley: Understand, understand. Lee Forschener: Yeah. Yeah. So for me The reality and the gut check for me was when I wasn't allowed to go back to work and I had no purpose. I had nothing sitting around other than a set of bagpipes and that's all I had anymore. I had no other interests, no other hobbies, nothing. Everything over the years I got to see everything I had did involved with. in some way was fire department specific. Corley: No, I think you just spoke to a lot of people. I mean the whole thing, man, it's been amazing. Walter Lewis said Lee has run a hard road and paved it smoother for others to travel. I'm sad for my friend to have had to work so hard, but love him for helping make this difficult topic normal to talk about. And I do appreciate that. You have a gift, I'm not gonna lie, because you make it very normal to talk about. Even, you know, I I I I like, I mean, I'm telling you this is not my for like james gearing you if you if you you were on a show in fact you referenced it earlier behind the shield he is an amazing advocate for mental health and he he digs into it like with I don't want to say with gusto in a bad way it's just his passion.

Lee Forschener: Oh yeah it is and and he Corley: And and he is full of for that's not my forte. So you make it very easy. So I appreciate that about you. And Walt Chief Chief Lewis absolutely encapsulates that when he said that. Lee Forschener: Thanks, Paul. Really appreciate that one. Corley: I wanted there was one other what gonna dig in on there no i'm good i'm good i'm gonna i'm gonna move to because i it's been phenomenal but book or books i love asking the questions book or books that you think firefighters should be reading doesn't have to be a firefighter book But what books do you think firefighters should be reading? Lee Forschener: so I have a few sitting here. I'm I'm gonna shamelessly plug your own book. This one right here, I'm telling you. Oh brother Dude, like there who there were some big takeaways in this thing. But like Angela Duckworth, Grit. Grit is another one that I I fell in love with. James Clear, Atomic Habits. Corley: Atomic. Lee Forschener: Another great, great book. All the appreciative inquiry stuff, anything you can find there, because that that that specific is going to teach you a lot about yourself, let alone anybody else. And it it It really gives you the opportunity to understand verbal communication that then you can take through the reading idea and digest a little bit more.

Corley: Fair. No, I like recent. I love recency bias. You know, it's I just discovered recency bias and it's my favorite one. but no, absolutely. So we do a thing, and I'm excited to hear these because we do the five questions for firefighters. It's been around we're getting ready to change them because they've this version has been around for quite a while But we're getting ready to change them. So you're going to be one of the closers. I have to get with the vigilantes and figure out what the next five are going to be. and which ones we're keeping and which ones we'll change up and all that stuff. But not the point because tonight I'm going to hit you with the five questions for firefighters, version 3. 2. There are no right or wrong answers. It's all completely the answers are your opinion, your opinion only, and the points are arbitrary, assigned by me with the help of the of the audience. So are you ready for the five questions for firefighters? Let's do it. Number one, what is the skill that carried you through your fire service career? Oof. Lee Forschener: Skill. Yeah, tenacity. I mean just grit, like just wanting it, you know, the effort. I I I would probably have to say that I don't even know if it's a skill, right? But effort, all out effort to be able to be successful no matter what I was doing.

Corley: Love it. I absolutely Absolutely love it. And I love the words described. Tenacity, and you also mentioned Duckworth's grit, which also ties into that. So Easy, easy out the gate, nice max points, nice soft toss to get things going. Number two, and it was a great answer, by the way. And from listening to your story, I would have to say that you lived it. So that's just outsider looking in. I love this question. It's one of my favorites. In fact, it'll probably stay in the in the next version. But it's job town. It is time. You're in route and responding. You gotta think of the scene from backdraft where McCaffrey's jumping on the rig, you know, and he's late and it's He slaps that tape into the cassette deck. What song are you playing while in route to a job? Lee Forschener: Volbeat Warriors Call. Ooh, Volbeat Mm-hmm. And that'll be that'll get you going. Corley: Oh yeah. that that's actually my current Volbeat Pandora. I still listen to Pandora, yes, everybody. But Volbeat Pandora Station is my current workout jam right now. So to hear it said, I know Rob did Rob Fisher say Volbeat or is this the first Vol official Volbeat? Because he loves Vol Okay, okay. Just checking, just checking. max points for Volbeat, especially since it's my current at the gym jam. Number two. All right, three. What is your favorite fire service tradition?

Lee Forschener: I mean, I guess I could fall right back into bagpipes, right? That's That's kind of kind of where my mind goes there immediately. But then then again, like solving the world's problems sitting at the kitchen table. It's between the two of them, I don't I I don't know. That'd be that'd be a hard toss-up. Corley: All right. Do you do you have a final answer? Lee Forschener: bagpipes Corley: All the way. Lee Forschener: Okay. Corley: Pipes is my I I I go around. I'm with you. I go around and round on this one with so 'cause I love pomp and circumstance. I love some of the tradition and pageantry that the fire services just surround rounded in and some of that I love the kitchen table. Like it it's such a wonderful dynamic. And but the bagpi like that that I don't, I don't, I'm not a bagpiper, so I don't even, but that initial draw when it's before the music starts, dude, it gives me chills each and every time time. Man, that that right before dude, I'm telling you. so absolute max points for pipes. the final answer of pipes. and you got me yapping So number four, on the clock. This one is the unfair question. It's on the clock. You get one minute to answer. Who are the four people you would put on your Mount Rushmore of the fire service?

Lee Forschener: How do you even qualify that? Like where do you where do you go with that? Oh, you got the got Jeff for me also? Mike, Mike Walker, Oklahoma City. Bob Hoff. Rick George is definitely sitting there with him. Man, there's too many. There's there's so many other ones. I'm gonna have to go with with Steve Gerald, one of the fire chiefs I had. Love it. Corley: There it is. Mike Walker, Bob Hoff, Rick George, Steve Gerald. The four. Easy. I love. I don't know Steve Gerald. He's one of the but I absolutely respect the local. You know, when I say local, you know what I'm saying I know every one of those other names. Mike Walker is the current deputy chief of operations. That guy for my son. I'm on, yeah, honored to call him. He's been on. He's been on. And yeah, absolutely. In fact, the fireman standard is one of my all-time favorite it's hard to say that, but FDIC keynotes. Go ahead. Sorry, I'm walking on you. Lee Forschener: Interestingly enough, that That keynote had a massive impact in my life. The night before he was the first time I met him. Corley: Okay. Lee Forschener: So we we happened to be somewhere in in Indy and and sitting down on a couch next to each other and It just everything just meshed. The conversation was incredible. And this is right at the beginning of me really starting to fall apart. And nobody knew that. And that guy, he's just something else. you know if if i mean obviously you've met him you know him you talk to him but he that there's just not many people like him that can that can you know have such an impact with so little word he's he's a powerful man.

Corley: He is I love it. I love the I love the the the four. Then Bob Hoff rejoined. Yeah, absolutely. Brother killed it. Max points four for four, which takes us to the final question. The question that'll never change. Heavy fire, searchable space. Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on VES? Lee Forschener: I can't answer that. I say you know what I honestly just because of everything that I I I was really passionate about for a long time, I'm grabbing the line and going in protecting everybody. Corley: Okay. Oh, I I love, yeah, I was gonna say you can't not answer because then you won't get max points. Because there's no wrong answer. There's no wrong answer. I just want to hear your reason why. And you said it, protected everybody 100%, brother. Max points, five for five. Absolutely crush. The five questions for firefighters. There it is, the five questions for firefighters, according to Lee Forschner. And that officially puts 276 scraps in the books. My brother, if people want to reach out to you, get more information, pick your brain, just what what is the best way for them to do so

Lee Forschener: So get a hold of you. No. Fair enough. Instagram is R-E-S-Q Rescue 33 Piper. you know, Facebook obviously my name Lee Forschner. my email is the same rescue resq three threepiper at gmail. com Corley: yeah. Love it. Absolutely. That's it, man. Go to housekeeping time, go to patreon. com slash the vigilantes. Become a vigilante. If you're not one, become one. it's amazing. The the the relationships that are being formed, the if you want like-minded souls, go be go the Discord servers is always got stuff going on. In fact, I had to mute my phone because they were talking during the the scrap and I'm like, okay, I'll be there in a after. one of the cool parts about being a vigilante is you get to go to the after party, which is where we all go in there and we roast the guests. And I'm excited tonight because we're gonna roast Lee Forsner here shortly. And if you know, you know how good the roast can be. Sam will be posting the link for everybody, so look for it in the vigilantes. Coming up on the show, let me pull up my list so I can get the hype going properly Coming up on the scrap, if I can get to the right page, here we go. Next week, it is Chris Gilpin, followed by Chris Slayer, followed by Dr. David Griffin, and then closing out 2024 is Chief Rick Laskey Absolutely just an amazing final kicked off December in style with Lee Forschner and will finish out 2024 with an amazing lineup. So I'm so excited for it. Lee, thank you for coming, A, and sharing your story with us tonight, but B, the vulnerability and just and just spending your evening with us and bringing value to the fire service.

Lee Forschener: Yeah, thanks for having me. It's always nice to be able to share some words and encourage some others to know that it's completely okay to be fucked up sometimes. Corley: Right on. Dude, I love it. I love the message, man. And the hope. It's okay to be fucked up and there is hope. And and that's the best. I love it, man. So let's enough for me. Enough for me. Get to the after party. Thanks for coming. Audience, man. Today, tonight was a night of just Sitting back and kind of listening. I mean, there was only a few questions thrown at you, and that's because the topic was very dense and very it was a lot there, man. But I feel like it brought value to the fire service audience Thank you for being here. I know we all said that again said we all are. We're just sitting here listening. Thank you for being here. Again, you make the scrap magical. Tuning in live each and every week. Remember, mutts don't scrap. I hope the tone stays silent unless it is burning. Everybody, stay safe out there