Weekly Scrap #266 - Eric Tollund, The Mental Game

Corley: Corley Moore coming at you. Wanted to talk very briefly before the scrap starts tonight. And And if if you know me, you know that I love the vigilantes. I love the like-minded souls, and I'm always looking for ways that we can have more interaction. One of the things that every vigilante says when they join is they're looking to connect with those like-minded souls. They're looking to connect with other vigilantes and people who feel the way they feel. And so I'm constantly looking for ways to make that happen. So far, I love Patreon. I love Patreon for bringing us together, but it hasn't created that the the ability to share information and things the way I wanted. But one thing we did discover was that Discord is integrated into Patreon. So we've been working for the last couple weeks to launch a Discord server where the vigilantes can get together and hang out. Now I'll be the first person to say I am not a tech guru. I'm much better at forcing doors and and hooking ceiling. I'm better at destroying stuff than I am at using technology. But that being said, Discord has so many. options that look like they could be phenomenal for the vigilantes and and for our growth and for the fellowship and the camaraderie that we want to share. It's got chat rooms that you can post in. separated by category where we can have great discussions. It's got voice channels you can jump in and have voice discussions with people at the drop of a hat without any without needing to start a zoom call or anything. You just drop in and drop out. You can share screens. We have plans. People have plans to share classes that they've built so they can get feedback before they go and teach those classes. I mean there's so much that could be used for this Discord server and we're just scratching the surface. So get in, come be a part of it, man. It looks to be an incredible platform. And if you want to be a part of it, head over to patreon. com slash the vigilantes. Become a part, man. If you're not a vigilante, why not? five bucks a month. You can't even afford a fancy coffee nowadays for five bucks. So five bucks a month, you're a member of the like-minded souls.

Corley: So come be apart. Looking forward to seeing and talking to you in the Discord. Stay safe. Maybe I do that. Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance. It is weekly scrap number 266. My guest tonight is Eric R. Toland. He is a 29-year veteran of the fire service, a husband. and father of two children. He began as a volunteer in Durango, Colorado, worked in Met West Metro Fire Rescue, and now serves with the Denver Fire Department, where he is the captain of Engine Company 23. He has a passion for engine company operations, specifically fires and high-rise and standpipe buildings. He's instructed at FDIC, the High-Rise Operations Conference, various county fire tactics events, and numerous fire nuggets conferences and seminars He's also been to the UK Fire Service College International Thought Leadership Event on high-rise operational tactics and as an adjunct instructor at the Denver Fire Academy. He is a passionate firefighter, and I'm excited for the conversation tonight. Welcome my brother, Eric Toland, as the guest of weekly scrap number 266. Eric Toland: Thank you very much. I don't know if it was evident how uncomfortable that was for me to hear all that, but that was It was nice to hear it. Thanks for that big introduction.

Corley: Absolutely, brother. Each and every time and every guest kind of reacts the same way as like okay, let's get past this. Can we start the scrap now? So is there anything I missed? Is there anything you would like to add Eric Toland: No, man, thank you so much for the opportunity to be here. I've listened, as we talked about a little bit beforehand, I've listened to a lot of scraps. Usually while I'm driving and that's I get to hear my friends talk about the fire service and their passion and share what they like to do. And it's just an honor and a privilege to I mean I I think I'm among some of the giants in in our profession when I say that there's some some people that I I highly respect and and the guys that made a huge impact on me who've been your guests. So it's it's a real honor to be here. So I appreciate it. Thank you for the opportunity. Corley: I'm excited for our conversation. I think you absolutely belong right there with them. audience, get your questions primed and ready for Eric and myself. We are going to have some fun tonight. Chat Sam is in the chats. He is watching the chats and he will be grabbing your questions and throwing them here so we can get them. Please, please, please drive the conversation. We count on you. So let's get to those beautiful sponsors so we can get to the scrap We'll start with affordable drill towers on a mission to bring you cost-effective and versatile training props like the affordable bailout prop you just saw, which allows you to practice window bailouts, ladder bailouts, ladder high point rescues. Of course, they also make the affordable standpipe prop, which you can roll into the classroom where you can do standpipe theory, and then you can roll it into the parking lot and pump realistic flows and pressures Of course, their mainstay is the affordable drill tower. It comes in several configurations and standard with the standpipe system. Choose from one or two sets of stairs, integrate it into your existing connex boxes for multi-story access. or freestanding on a slab. All models are NFPA 1402 compliant and gain you ISO credit. The only thing you can't do on an affordable drill tower is live fire training. Call Steve, 844-55 Tower, or drop an email to info at affordable drilltowers.

Corley: com. Fire Station Furniture Provides a complete line of quality furniture for your firehouse. Firefighter owned and operated. They understand the strain that firefighters put on furniture and offer furniture that's built to last. Visit www. firestationfurniture. com for more information. Next up is Firefighter Air Coalition. They are proud to bring you the Firefighter Air Conference in Cobb County, Georgia on October 14th and 15th. Man, that's two weeks away. So go get registered. The Firefighter Air Coalition will present two intensive days of training featuring instruction from check it out. Mike Galeano, Rick George, Jack Murphy, Mike Dugan, Jason Cruzen, Richard Kessler, Paul Combs, and Basil Ibrahim. Your fire attack depends on air. Your search and rescue operations depend on air. Your own safety and survival depends on air. Come add some incredible tools to your toolbox at Firefighter Air Conference in Cobb County, Georgia on October 14th and 15th. And check out the Firefighter Air Coalition at aircoalition. org. More air, more time. That's it, yeah. That's it. We got through it. We're ready. Are you ready? I was like looking them like something something's wrong. Okay, we're there Flame Decon as always. I do love Flame Decon. Thank you. absolutely. Flame Decon, man, make sure, make sure you're getting the nastiness off you. And Decon, man, shower within the hour. Are you ready, Eric?

Eric Toland: Ready. Corley: We're past it. We got the yeah, Taylor Shepard said, I'll see y'all at the firefighter air conference. We got a y'all, we got our first y'all in the chat. I love it, Taylor. Thank you And he said, Taylor also said, nothing like good old engine company ops. Let's get it. So there you go. Absolutely, people checking in, checking in from Alvin, Texas, Texas boys checking in. Let's get it on. I'm reading all these here. Hopefully made the front row this time from Kyle Perverrow. I think you made the front row, brother. Yeah, everybody's here. Okay, get your questions in. Sam's grabbing them. Eric I'm gonna you I always send a email to the guests and say, hey, what what topics would you like me to research? What should we dig into, man? You sent me one I absolutely love just one of many, but it's one that really struck a nerve with me and I wanted to dig into it right out the gate. And it's one of the lectures you gave at the HROC conference. And I get a lot of messages every week, usually through social media, sometimes through email, occasionally through text, and tons of different questions get asked, but there's a there's a repeated theme over and over and over that people ask. And I feel like this question or this lecture you gave is directly aimed at those questions. And so I wanted to start off with that as the overall theme as we start tonight. And the the lecture was called the mental game Mental strength, resilience, and leadership in the firehouse and life. And you talk about the grind of city of life City politics, poor leadership, and how that impacts our ability. So I just want to throw it off to you and say talk about that for a minute, and then we'll start getting into some questions on it.

Eric Toland: Yeah, so b before I get started with that I do gotta make sure that I do the pro professional thing and make sure I say that the things that I say are my own opinion here. I'm not voicing any kind of opinion of the demon fire department this is just my own stuff. I know that sometimes you can get together with firefighters from all over the place, all over the country, and one thing that they can gravitate towards is let me tell you how messed up my department is I don't want to go there. That's not what this is about, nor is it something that I like to do. But it is unfortunate that that is the truth, I believe. And sometimes the struggles that we face in our own departments, whether it's it's just disappointment or things aren't as operationally sound as we'd like them to be, or the leadership isn't what it is that we'd like it to be. it's a common theme and and unfortunately I've seen a lot of firefighters come together to talk about that. some of my own personal struggles in life, whether it was my personal life, the challenges that I went through at home being in a father and a husband and then some of the things outside the firehouse but then also really inside the the fire service pushed me towards this presentation that just kind of came about our friend Kurt Isaacson had been pushing me to to do a presentation at HRock. and and this kind of just came up out of nowhere. I really felt like I I didn't have a place to come in there and start talking about some of the tactics and some of the things that that some of the the giants that that get up on the stage there that they talk about and so I felt like I needed to do and wanted to do something different and that was a little more to my heart and something that I could could speak genuinely on. And that's where this presentation was born. And it's timely because I just was talking to Kurt the other day And gonna be back down there in December with a a newer version of this that's oh nice. a little more applicable and and kinda this thing just doesn't go away. It just keeps building.

Corley: Right. Eric Toland: but it is a challenge and it's a grind and And I think something that's unique in the fire service for sure is that this is a career for us. You know, we're we're not just in and out, in and out, we're doing this over the long run. It's definitely, it's more than a marathon. And it's more than an ultramarathon. It's a lifetime of work and challenges that we face and how do we put up with it? Personally, I can speak with the or I can speak to the fact that I saw some officers that I worked with over the years that were just amazing in the sense that they it It nothing seemed to bother him. You know, the the stuff, the politics that came down, or the policies that that were difficult to deal with, or the grind, the long nights. They were at the table in the morning with a smile on their face leading and and just showing gratitude for for a great job and and getting to having that opportunity to work together and be firefighters. I admired that so much and I never could figure out what they had. It was like a special gift.

Corley: Right. Eric Toland: As I promoted, it kind of dawned on me that that's no special gift. It's just something that you really have to work hard to do. And I can't say that that it's something that I'm good at by any means, but it's something I really try hard to do to make that mental peace, that positivity, something that I just bring forward every day and try to set the tone as the company officer, as the company captain. I'm very lucky to be the captain of a of a exceptional engine company in our city that goes to a lot of fires and a great firehouse, a two-story firehouse with poles. Like it's a it's a real firehouse, you know? Corley: Yeah. Eric Toland: And just very lucky to be there. And sometimes we can forget how lucky we are to to have what we have and be where we are and work with the awesome people that we get to work with. And so I've made that a point to try to make that one of the things that I just focus on every day is to just have that gratitude, try to be resilient, push through the difficult times. I call it the noise in that presentation. sometimes there's a lot of noise and my job is to kind of filter out some of that noise that comes from above, filter it out and then let some of the message filter down through to the to the rest of the crews other times it's it's I need to amplify what I hear and make sure that the message is put out correctly. but it it's a challenge and and one thing that I've recognized or I feel like I'm learning with it It's kind of like leadership. You never get there. You're never there. You're never like, I've done enough. I made it. I've arrived. y you think you get to that point maybe, you sit back, you relax, and you turn around and something happens. At least this is my own experience. I turn around and I'm like Man, I screwed up. I didn't see that coming. Or how did I miss that? You know, or there's something that always happens, that's a setback or a challenge in a sense that ultimately it's really hard to get through, but it it's there and it's a I I have to remind myself that it's another lesson to help me just be a better leader and a better person and work through that mental game, which is the point of that whole presentation and that whole topic.

Corley: Right on, right on. A few things I want to dig in on there. And that is you said make that mental peace. Make that mental peace as the company officer and focus on that gratitude. Do you Is that the tip and the trick that you've learned to take away? Like not to melt it down to one simple thing at all, because it's such a multifaceted question, and I realize that. But is it really just about keeping that attitude of gratitude? Eric Toland: Yeah, you know there's so much to it and every day is different, but you had Candace Ashby on here a while back and that was an outstanding But show she talked about how the company officer can really set the tone in the firehouse and it all starts with that company officer. I absolutely believe that and so it's it's up to me to have that responsibility to talk about like yeah i'm not gonna come in here and and go down that path of negativity if I can exude that gratitude and try to tap into that myself, it it actually like scientifically and physiologically it does have an impact on yourself when you practice those things. it it does you do get better at it and it does become contagious. it's not the thing, it's just one of many things. And And, you know, going to shift, next shift, it might be the thing that helps somebody else out during that, some of the challenges that we face on that shift. But it might not resonate with any of the guys. And that's that's sometimes one of the challenges is it's like, oh, Cap's back. He's always positive

Corley: Right, right. Eric Toland: So it it's also like being true to that. I I I I try to do that, but and I got I have tough days too, I'll tell you. Like there's no doubt about it. I struggle with certain things, but I'm always working to get through it. So I don't know if that's answering your question. It's it's just a piece of it. It's a practice, if you will. Corley: No, no, absolutely. And I think like you touch on it so well there is the authenticity to your people And telling them, hey, some days I will have bad days. You know what I'm saying? And and that just being honest with them. and therefore they know that even though you're showing up most of the time that, oh, there's Cap again, he's always, he's always but they also know that it's a struggle for you to get there. You know, and and understand that it's not just a default and easy. Does that make sense? Eric Toland: Yeah, I I hope so. I think that I strive for is is you know there's a there's a sense of vulnerability in that and that's that's a tough thing to to to do to open up.

Corley: Yeah it's very popular with firefighters to be vulnerable with their crews yeah Eric Toland: Yeah. But you know, as I mentioned, I already touched on a sense I feel like I have a sense of responsibility as the company captain, as a as a leader in that firehouse, as someone who who I I work hard to be a leader and I I tell the guys and the the crews like they know I'm trying to be a better leader but if I don't embody that peace then I'm not really living it you know I try to walk that walk and so I've shared things when I'm having difficult times times when things aren't as good at home or you know I've gone through some loss and and that'll rock your world and and to Something that that has been kind of mind-blowing to me and I think solidified this whole thing for me in the firehouse as a leader is I remember coming in one day and and thinking like man I'm gonna I'm gonna share this and these guys are probably gonna jump all over me and shared some things and next thing I knew a number of the guys were saying hey I've been through similar thing or hey I was thinking about something like that or hey I've got something to share and it blew me away. And it and what that did as a leader is it it really reinforced that piece of of like how important it is to create that space. Call whatever you want a safe space or just that place where people can be themselves, open up. And let you know what's going on because ultimately it ties into to when we go out the door, how are we going to operate? It creates that environment that allows us to to just be up front, not have a bunch of BS going on behind the scenes and and form a better team. So kind of went off on a little tangent there with that, but I man, it ties in together. You know, and and it's it was a huge lesson for me in in that and something I truly believe in.

Corley: Brother, I love tangents and I love when people share the lessons that they've learned, the epiphanies that they've learned along the road, because you never know where they're gonna come from and you never know how much value they have to other people. So thank you. Thank you for the tangent. And then I wanted to do you never get there. And like you never actually arrive, man. I love the statement that you said. It's like leadership. You never actually say, hey, it's over. I made it. We won. Eric Toland: Yeah. Corley: It it is never. It's because that's our byline, the never-ending fight against complacency, which I think is the hardest fight of your career. That's the byline of the of the the the whole driving force of the mission behind what we're doing right here talking. And I love what you said. We never arrive Eric Toland: Yeah, you know, and that comes from in so many ways of life, right? Like from personal life. I'm not a great husband. And I I learned that very often. I try, but you never get there. Like you can't relax because then certain things you know, you can't just presume. I can't presume my wife knows what's going on or knows how I'm thinking and same I've learned that like same thing with being a dad like you just always have to be on it you have to keep trying and and each day is a new day and it's the exact same thing in the firehouse you know new challenges come along new new unique things are presented to us you know last shift was a great example at eight at 758 we had a call I pick up the phone and it's the chief saying, hey, you gotta be a class up at this other firehouse at eight. And we're like, all right, here we are. You know, I thought we were pretty squared away, but yeah, okay, we're gonna be those guys today. And that's just You gotta roll with it and just not let it set you back or s or set you off, you know, on a on into a negative place, but You just gotta roll with it, man, and realize that that's just another thing to deal with. And you never get to where you can actually sit back and just relax. You know, at least that's my personal belief, I think.

Corley: Right. And if you do, then you need to you need you really need to get in the mirror if you feel like you made it to that point. You really got to get in the mirror. And that's my personal belief. So we'll just combine our personal beliefs right there and send it out. Are you ready for your first question from the audience? Eric Toland: Let's do it. Corley: Nothing but soft tosses, of course. From John Velez coming at you from Texas. Every department has their own issues. How do you, as the company officer, keep your crew mission focused and realize we can only control the controllables? Eric Toland: Oh man, that's one of my one of my phrases that the guys have heard me say a lot is control to controllable. I even I got belt buckles for the crew a couple years ago for Christmas and I had that engraved on their control. to controllable because again it's just a constant reminder like that we always have to just remind ourselves like I tell the guys this all the time like hey the chief didn't call me today and ask me what we should do with this big political problem or where that money should go. it's not up to us. You know, the only thing we can control is hey, we get to come to work and work together at this awesome firehouse and go out the door and train. and eat good food together and make fun of each other and laugh and hopefully go to some jobs. And you know we're lucky enough if we're gonna firehouse where we do go to work but keeping that focus in that in that direction to try to answer that question is is is where i try to to hang my hat covet was a great example of this there was a it was a really difficult time but i was so proud of our firehouse because we kept that that focus we train we still trained every day we still went out the door we went and stretched the places i mean we we we got this we had this logbook of of hose stretches and man that thing was just getting filled up and it was i was extremely proud because it it showed that hey we didn't let this just bog us down like quicksand You know, the guys, there was like there was like a certain bit of like comfort in coming into the firehouse, and we know all this is going on out in the world, but we're still here to be firefighting.

Eric Toland: You know, we're still gonna go on that call. We're gonna stretch hoes. We're gonna be professional. We're gonna do our thing, and we we get to do it. It's kind of a gift, and it goes back to that gratitude piece. So to answer that question, like I just try to be a couple, here's another thing, a couple things I really try to do is I try to be predictable. in in in what I do every day and we're gonna train. We're gonna train and we're gonna try to work out every day and we're gonna have a good time doing it. And if we can be predictable in that, then it it provides a little more, I think, comfort in showing up to the firehouse and dealing with some of that the difficulties that we might face politically, policy-wise. whatever all that stuff that we can't necessarily control but if we can control a few of those things during our shift it can make it a lot better. I love it man. Corley: I love it. No, set those expectation those clear expectations provide that comfort, man. And and it I man, every yes, brother, I I love exactly what you're saying So I love this question, which is not a it's not a fair question at all, but I'm still gonna throw it at you. You can go whichever direction you want with it. But this comes from Taylor Shepherd. And it's a tough one because I I I I will I will say I struggle with this one at times Let's say downtown comes out with something you don't agree with. How do you present it to the crew and walk that line? You know, being one of the boys and the enforcer, even when you don't like it, because this is a great question. And I am not, like I said, no soft tosses.

Eric Toland: Yeah Well, I'm not going to answer this one great because I don't, you know, it's it's funny. I've been thinking about this because I'm taking the next Chiefs test. And you gotta think about this kind of stuff as you move up, as you know. Oh yeah. It gets to a point where there's certain things that you you can get away with. I'm not, I don't think of myself as a big, as a uniform guy. I got one guy, I don't think he owns any pants. so, you know, okay, but when we go out the door, he's professional and gets he gets the job done and and we take care of it. the chief doesn't sweat me for it now could we could that come down the line of like hey you gotta be in uniform yeah if that if that comes down to me and we gotta make that make that what it is it's it's not a huge deal but man, that's that's a tough one. at some point you get to where you just have to say like, all right, this is what it is, and the expectation of we gotta uphold it And we got to move forward with it and and get through it. The only thing with that is I think a lot of us have been in this in the fire service, especially larger departments long enough that we know that that the pendulum will swing from one side to the other. All right. It there'll be a memo that comes out that says you have to do this by this time and this has to happen and this has to happen. A few months, a year goes by, and then that stops happening. there's less accountability and then it swings all the way back over here and and you can almost start to see it come back around to where it's like hey guys this is gonna come back and we're gonna have to do it for a little while Again, if we go back and kind of zoom out to that 30,000 foot view of what we get to do going to the firehouse and you know whether it's wearing our uniform or We just had a thing come out where helmets needed to be inspected and we had to the the old leathers aren't allowed anymore And I know that my phone's gonna start buzzing here, but like had to get a new helmet and and that was a tough one, man.

Eric Toland: I've had the same leather helmet for a long, long time. And you know, just had to had to deal with it and move on. And ultimately it's a it's a helmet and I'm I'm gonna wear it. did I have my leather helmet on the other day? I did I'm gonna tell you that. But but the grand scheme of things, it's it's tough. That's a tough question. And I I don't know how to answer it on that blanket stage. because as you said, it it's a it's a difficult one. And you gotta kind of start weighing things out. And the last thing I'll say that to wrap this one up, and there's some times when it's okay to say, hey, don't worry about this one You know, because it'll it's going to if we're still performing and we're not on the radar and the guys are doing a great job, the crews are getting out the door, meeting everything that they need to do, I'm happy to take a hit for something or to stand in the way of something. that's coming from above because you know Jocko talks a lot about this one. he goes to a great story about some patch that the that the unit was told not to wear. And it's like, okay, I'll make sure that that happens. He never talked to the guys about that. Patch let them work. until you know, unless it came down from above. So man, that was a a long-winded response to that one.

Corley: I know it was it was a hard and fast patch right down the pipe. So you crushed it, brother. I appreciate it. Speaking of crush. Brian Crush has a question coming at you. Eric Toland: Oh, great. Corley: He says, can you ask Eric what he learned by coming into company like E3 at Denver Fire with a culture of uniquely high standards? Eric Toland: Hey bro, good to hear from you. We go way back, as I know you know. But you know that was a unique experience for me, and I'm glad we're off that last topic and moving on. So That's good. Corley: You did good. It was an awesome answer, man. It's a tough one. So go ahead. Go ahead. Eric Toland: Engine three. Engine three was an amazing place. It's this tiny little firehouse in Denver. It's the oldest operating firehouse in the city And it's always had this kind of aura around it for being just very into the job. it's the kind of place that you you go you you can't hide because it It's literally like the bay at my new 23s where I work now. You could fit all of Engine 3's firehouse into that bay, pretty much. But it's it's the kind of place where you're you're just together with everybody. You know, it you it kind of it oozes fire and you you're thinking about fire and you're talking about fire and you're you're just you you can't go from one end of the firehouse to the other without walking past the rig and looking at the hose loads and And are they done, right? Can we tweak something? Can we fix something? Can we clean something up? You know, guys are showing up with ideas already of how we go, what are we gonna go train on? So to answer your question, Brush, like, man, that was that was truly one of the highlights of my career. And it was something that I I had this I had to put some time in at some other firehouses in order to get to that firehouse. and when I finally got there, you know, I was just as happy as can be. Like it was amazing. It was a great experience. it came with some challenges, of course, with some of the people there and some of the things that we went through, but but I look back on that as one of the highlights of my career and honestly something that set me on the path to where I'm at now and as the company captain at engineering 23 where I'm at.

Eric Toland: So lucky because the lieutenant on the B shift was a guy from engine three. The lieutenant on the A shift was a guy from engine three. Nice. an engineer that's there was at engine three. So what we're trying to do is recreate the good that we had at that firehouse. You know, that that high level of performance and expectations and just a higher standard, I think, than than you might find anywhere else. And that's part of that predictability. You know, you you come to our firehouse and You can expect that like, hey, we're gonna train and we're gonna be good at this and we're gonna talk about fire and it's that's gonna be kind of the way it goes. So to go back to that, man, it was just a a great, great experience. I worked with some awesome people down there and went to some fantastic fires and and got to be a part of history of the the Denver Fire Department. So really cool thing to be a part of. It was awesome. Awesome. Corley: I love it, man. being a part of that culture, accepted into that culture. And then the best part of that for me, listening to you talk, was that you took that culture and you tried to spread it. you know, and that's awesome, man. That's awesome. And by the way, one thing is you said I I heard something there, you said brush or something like that. I don't know who that is. So just to be just to be clear. No, you have a fan in here, his name's Kurt Isaacson, because he said in all caps, which he sometimes speaks in all caps on social media, but and in life he also speaks in all caps, but he said Toland is a stud with two exclamation points So obviously a fan, but he asked this question, which is switching gears on you. How did Captain Tolin do the Leadville 100 on a one-speed? So you may have you may have to give some background on what the Leadville 100 is. And but I like this part of the question, which is what did it take to prepare and how does it relate to the fire service?

Eric Toland: Okay. I was gonna say I can't believe you're asking this, Kurt, but that's a good question. You know, that was really it was a tough it was a tough thing. I kind of fell into this. The the Leadville 100 is this race that takes place. Leadville is this city in Colorado that's at like Super high altitude. I think it's like 10,500 feet, something like that. And it's this kind of famous mountain bike race where you get on a bike and you ride 104 miles actually Actually, and if you do it in under nine hours, you get this big belt buckle. If you do it in under 10 hours, you get a fairly big belt buckle. and the goal is to just finish in under 12 hours, I think is what it is It's been like 10 years ago now that I did this and Kurt loves talking about this. But that was a tough thing to prepare for and And you know, it just took a lot of focus, I'd say, you know, it you just had to always be on the bike, get out there think about what the the challenges are gonna be. Interestingly enough, the the biggest part of that ride wasn't the the physical part, I would say. That was a very, very, very difficult part of it, you know I tell people I spend a lot of time in what I call the pain cave on that road. But it's the mental piece to that that's the hardest part, I'd say. the grind and part of it is the grind leading up to it to when you're tired get out and just get on the bike get in the saddle and push yourself do hard things which is something that I really like to do. I like to do hard things because you you you you learn a lot about yourself. it puts you into unique situations where you you kind of discover some things. you probably didn't know about before. And then you know getting out there and doing that, then getting into it and actually being a part of that race with people from all over the world was just an amazing experience. I made it. I got a belt buckle. And then I look back on it. And honestly, I don't it's something that I don't necessarily feel like I need to go back and do again.

Eric Toland: because it was such a a big chunk of time away from family. Sure to go out and train to I remember my son, he was he was a little guy then, he was like two, maybe two and a half, and He was like, Dad, are you really do you have to go on a bike ride again today? And that crushed me. That was you know, I think in the rec in the in the on the other side of everything, he also knows that hey my dad did that and I hope that there's a piece of him that's kind of like Oh that's pretty cool, you know. Corley: And he was a part of it, you know what I'm saying? He contributed, yeah. Eric Toland: Yeah. So hope that answers the question there. Corley: No, absolutely, man. Love the story, love the story. I'll have to see the belt buckle someday. Jeff Stone asked this question earlier because you were talking about when, you know, the topic that you were glad we got away from. He said, how much of the success of that practice is built through the crew respecting you more than they resent the message from downtown?

Eric Toland: We're going back to the that came down from above. Yeah You mind phrasing that again for me, please? Corley: Basically, how much of how much of your success when dealing with that comes from the crew's respect for you being bigger than the resentment they have for whatever policy is coming? Eric Toland: That's a tough one to answer because I I don't I honestly can't say like at all times that the crew has huge respect for me. I think that that kind of comes and goes. Everybody's facing their own challenges and there's certain times when things are going really good and there's other times when sometimes I'll be honest, like I I feel like I'm pushing things and we've got to keep moving in a certain direction and you can just feel that that it's I'm there to to drive the company and push things forward and I and I'm not I I don't know of question that sometimes. So I don't know that I can hang my hat on that respect per se. what I do try to hang my hat on is that predictability and and And and what our attention is towards, which again is is like being proficient, being committed to that excellence, that higher standard. getting out the door and and doing a good job, training every day, working out every day if we can, working hard to build that team. I think that that respect could be a byproduct of that. And if things are going well, then absolutely. But I will never I It's not my thing that I could say I have a lot of respect necessarily. I don't know. That would be a question for for the other guys, not for me.

Corley: For the crew. Fair enough. It's a good answer. It's a good answer. It's a solid answer. It's an honest answer. And I like it. I like it. One more coming at you. This one is Kyle Pivoral. Piverell. Sorry if I butchered it. As always. That's my caveat. My officer is an amazing leader. He truly embodies the mission, men and me mindset, but my house doesn't see consistent work. What are some ways as a younger member to help my officer keep the mission mindset? Eric Toland: And that's a great question. You know, I I would say like It it's only a matter of time. And Ray McCormick talks about this. He he put out this little keep firing your life blurb a little while back and I took a screenshot of it and I saved it. And it's just like i don't remember exactly what it was but it was along the lines of like you're just you're that much closer to the next big one the the next challenge the the big one could come tomorrow are you ready along those kinds of lines And man, that even happens at those slower houses. So if you have that kind of officer, I guarantee you that person, that officer. relies on you and is grateful to have you because then they're not feeling like they're the ones that has to conf constantly keep driving and keep pushing and and kind of making that happen, especially in an environment that isn't always conducive to that. so to to be able to help that officer out, I would just say Be into it. Always be ready. You know, come into the firehouse, listen to the scrap on the way in. Listen to something that is what I like to say is feeding your brain in the right way. giving you that that energy in the start of the day to then come in, show up and be able to to have that combined energy together. Because man, it things change. And that firehouse, if that if you're known for that or or you become known for that, people will start to gravitate towards that. And it could take a while, but be patient with that because It can certainly happen and people will want to work with you. People will want to be in that environment. And then next thing you know, that firehouse is going to be known as a place where people go.

Eric Toland: to train, to get better, to to be better at their job. And and man it can feel like forever. I've been there sometimes with with some of that negativity in the firehouse or where it's just not appreciated being into the job like that, but it it will change, it can change and and it's not worth changing what's core to you, you know, so stick with it. hang in there. Have grit, perseverance, and it'll come. Corley: Love it, man. Absolutely love the answer. I got a timestamp here. Hold on. Beautiful. All right, moving on. Getting back to the notes. Engine ops You are a passionate person when it comes to putting water on fire. You also have been around a while and been teaching on it, lecturing on it, you know, and so what do we, I want to ask this broad question first to lead it off is what are we currently getting right in the overall direction the fire service is moving when it comes to engine operations, water on the fire? Eric Toland: Man, I love this question right off the bat. Because I've been thinking a lot about this and listen to to know the the FSRI studies that are going on, the UL FSRI studies, the the terminology that's starting to change now as far as survivable space, victim profiling, yes, understanding what we can do you know with that host stream and a and a coordinated effort with a an engine having just highly skilled engine getting water to the to where it needs to be and allowing that truck company to to aggressively search like that's just excellence and again it it as we talked about earlier another theme like you never get there you're never you're never good enough it's it's always something that we have to keep working at And I'm just loving the new the new research that's coming out, that new terminology that's coming up, the the people that are pumping the the the engine work you know you got Kyle Romagus talking about it and and the engine is cool again in a way it's kind of been building up over the last maybe five or six or or maybe even more years and it's been great because we're starting to see, I think, reap the benefits now to where teaching used to be like, all right, we gotta we gotta have like a station where we focus on just handling the nozzle and understanding how to to manage the line a little bit and that's not the case anymore I'd say in general.

Eric Toland: Right In some places you still have to do that, but in general, I'm teaching at FDIC for a number of years, we had to do that and towards the end we kind of had to we realized like we don't need to spend as much time on this, we can focus on other things. Now we're we're moving towards you know, stream placement, water mapping, you know, understanding the dimensions of your room from hearing that stream hit the the far ends of the room, you know, under painting that picture, bouncing the floor, moving forward. tying that in together with with the truck company whose the first thought i love this this quote and it was from a new york chief that i I I always mess it up, but he said the the number one thing on a on a truckee's mind should be where's the water and how are they doing because that allows them to be more effective at what they're doing, which then again puts more responsibility on us as the engine company to be solid, to get in there, to do a better job of getting that water to where it needs to be. to start shutting down that products of combustion to cool the atmosphere and the environment. And I think this is all some of the stuff that's starting to build a lot of momentum. You know, it's it's building up. We talked to to our friend Dennis Leghier about this quite a bit and it's like and people are eating it up and I couldn't be happier. So I I I think that it it's moving in the right direction, it's doing really good. It's no longer in most places, it's no longer like, hey kid, you open it and water comes out. And you close it and the water doesn't come out. I think we're we're we're moving in a really good direction.

Corley: No, I love that. I love your take on it because I think that the work that's been done yourself, the people in the chat right now, Kurt Ison, Brian Crush. you've mentioned Ray McCormick, you mentioned Dennis Legir, the work that's been done over the last decades to turn the battleship. And at first, you know, I'm I'm I I can only imagine what it was like at first. You know what I'm saying? And you've been around for it, so you could probably speak to it. But to look at it now, it's like, man, so it's we're going in that direction. You know what I'm saying? We're going in that direction. Eric Toland: Mm-hmm. Corley: And so, but to realize how far we've come is crazy, you know. which brings me to the next other side of the question is what are we getting wrong in the direction we're moving in engine ops? What do you think what how do you feel about the negative side of things? Eric Toland: That's a good question. And it's a hard one to answer because I don't really pay attention to the negative side, I guess. the first thing that does come to mind though for me is is something that's near and dear to Dennis, is Specking our rigs and and this is a challenge for us at at home is I just had a meeting the other day where we were talking about this of like the rigs just come to us as as a certain spec. And with with not a whole lot of input from the end user. And I know that this happens in a lot of places, that you just the rig shows up and you make it work. and that's that's unfortunate in a lot of ways because it does set you back a little bit. If you have to climb up on that hose, on that tailboard just to reach the hose to deploy it, that's an extra step that shouldn't be necessary. So I think one of the things that maybe we're we're moving forward, I do think that's happening. There's baby steps that that the progress is happening, but I know that it's still something that that departments and other people are challenged with is as far as like taking the spec of the rig and really tying that into the grassroots piece of what the firefighters use, making it more friendly for the firefighters to use, getting that hose off faster.

Eric Toland: you know taking maybe a few of the creature comforts out but actually making it a a rig that's set up to deploy hose and put fire out as fast and effectively as you possibly can that It just it's the right thing to do. Corley: Right on. Right on, brother. I love it. I absolutely love it. Kurt Ison wants to know favorite tip size? I'll throw a soft one for you. Eric Toland: Oh man, I don't it's like which child is my favorite? I don't know. I got a lot of them. We've gone to the ancient 316 And and I'm loving that. it takes a lot more, it takes a lot of discipline to understand it. you know, it's not just a a 50 psi tip I love that that we can go out and flow that thing and you could put someone who isn't really familiar with it on the end of it and and you can pump it at 40 psi and get that 265 and they could feel it and they can manage it by themselves and then you can pump it up and use a pedo gauge And they can feel that difference and then bump it up to 60, you know, and even go above that and just know what they're capable of, the the flexibility in that tip is is phenomenal. and of course shout out to Dennis for for having such a hand in developing that thing. But I I love the big line. I love when we get the opportunity to use it, to see what it does, to as Kirb would say, punch that fire in the throat. It's a pretty awesome thing to witness. So I gotta go with that Engine 316th.

Corley: Engine 316th, final answer. I love it. Jeff Stone coming at you says, again, Eric, if I remember right, DFD uses a two and a half on the high-rise Denver load. Has there ever been a DFD evaluation of the hybrid lines between inch and three-quarter and two and a half? What are your thoughts on that concept? Eric Toland: Yeah, good question. So long history in the DFD years ago when I first came on it was the officer had the discretion to either choose inch and three quarter hose for stem pipes or two and a half. If you as you can imagine there was a lot of dissension. There were different camps of beliefs, if you will So it was it was tough. and then along came the two-inch hose and we got some two-inch hose and that was at least a baby step forward for officers to then keep the inch three quarter on the the pre-connects or for the smaller fires and then move toward a little bit bigger hose. And we looked at it, I remember evaluating some some two inch hose that had the two and a half inch couplings what we ended up going to was two inch hose with the inch and a half couplings which had a a bit more of an impact but the unfortunately what we experienced with that was just a a a fairly poor speck of that hose that it was very prone to kinks. it was it was not always very predictable in the way that you could manage it, especially with lower flows. You had to be really good with managing those kinks with lower pressures and lower flows. Obviously, I'm a big fan of the two and a half, just that that low pressure, high volume operation that you get with that especially given the uncertainty of what you're gonna face once you get all the way up there. Denver also has a lot of older high rises. I can speak specifically to our area where in and 23 Z, they're all from the 60s and they're all the kinds of places where like you don't really want to kneel on the floor on on a medical call you know like like Like it they're just they're nasty. so but we can go with that. The assumption then is that the stamp pipes aren't taken care of on a daily or a annual basis as they should be.

Eric Toland: And so you kind of that mindset of we expect that there's going to be problems, that there's going to be something that goes wrong with it comes out of that. So what to kind of circle around on this, what we've ended up going to finally is a compromise here. used to be either two and a half or two inch. now it's two and a half with the ability to use a two inch leader length as that nozzle section coming off of that two and a half for the residential high rises where you have good compartmentalization. So that opportunity is there, but it there also is the discretion left to that officer to go strictly to Corley: On that leader, are you using just a 50-foot section on the end or it's a 50-foot. Eric Toland: most companies have 250 foot sticks in their rigs because what we're finding now too is as I and I know a lot of places across the nation are finding this is these massive newer builds where you have these extra long stretches You might have a, and it's ridiculous for those of us operationally to think about it, but we're finding these super long hallways with a standpipe outlet and a set of fire doors in the middle of the hallway as if we're gonna hook up to that, you know, so we're actually in effect doubling our stretches or having to take the time to really do a good job of recon, of understanding where that stairwell is at. So on some of these buildings, companies are taking everything they've got as far as all of their two and a half plus that those two two inch leader lengths and then we're supposed to marry up with that next engine company to then have more hose but I'll be honest with you there haven't been a ton of fires that we've had in these places they're newer built I believe it's only a matter of time before we start getting faced with some of this.

Corley: Sure. But Jeff wants to know is the two inch also in a Denver load? Eric Toland: It is. Yep. Corley: Okay. Eric Toland: All our all our high-rise packs are in that Denver. load and you'll find even a lot of rigs because we're we're so familiar with that Denver load they'll have a like a smaller 50 foot section on engine 23 for example we got a 50 foot bundle on the front bumper on top of a our two and a half that's in a it's in a Denver load just because it's so we're so familiar with it. Corley: It's ingrained. Eric Toland: Yes, yeah. Corley: And the nozzle on that's all Enchant 316 Eric Toland: So on the that inch and three quarter little smaller than the low there? Corley: Those yeah, but I was talking about on on the two and a half and the two inch. Eric Toland: Two and a half on the is inch and three sixteenths. The two inch is a one inch tip. Corley: Okay, okay. Eric Toland: Yep. Corley: Nice, nice. Love it. Love the questions. Steve Kaiser coming at you from down under. He wants to know you talk about getting that nozzle to the fire effectively and efficiently. Do you prefer a hose diameter for achieving this? And why? Does it differ in residential to high-rise? So your preferred diameters?

Eric Toland: Yeah, great question. And great episode the other day, Steve. Good to good to hear from you. You know, i it it's a it's a great question because as I just touched upon like For us, we've identified in our our area our old kind of just run-down high-rises where it's understanding the problem that the potential of the problem that we could face with a poorly maintained stamp pipe system. It's an easier thing as a professional to say like we're going for the default of the high flow you know low pressure larger hose line It's gonna we're gonna encounter fewer problems. So that that's kind of a given for that one. We've accepted that. That's what we're gonna use on Stamp Up operations Absolutely for interior operations on a single-family home, especially in our area. We have a lot of smaller homes, inch three-quarter all day long. and Kirk goes into the big three, which is the you know the the right the proper amount or proper GPM, the proper amount of mobility. you can use with that hose line and then being able to get water to the place that it needs to be by by getting in there with it and coupling that with the proper nozzle reaction. If you have heavy, heavy fire out of every orifice, the entire front porch is on fire, for example, of a small home, a thousand square foot home, and you're not able to get to the back, yeah, pull the big line and knock it in the front. right away for four to five seconds that quick knock concept but then be ready to follow it up right away with that smaller line because you're gonna transition from I hate using that term transitional attack, but ultimately that's what it is, right? Right on. Agree on that, I think. But like we're gonna knock that larger fire down to a smaller fire because we're ultimately going to want that higher mobility and lower GPM in order to affect getting getting that to the the rest of the fire in that building. Steve, I hope that answers that question for you.

Corley: No, it's a beautiful answer. Along with the reasoning why. So absolutely love it. Chris Wessel's coming at you from Georgia. Your thoughts on cross lay versus rear hose bed skid loads. Eric Toland: And Chris, another great episode. This is awesome. and I am not a cross leg guy. I love the back of the rig. Like just standing on the tailboard, the way that the hose bed is set up. Sometimes I I like I like to call it the office because that's that's the place to be. it gives us so many more options and ideally you know the way that we pull up to a work and fire is we can pull past the engineer can even kind of point the rig away a little bit from the the fire nose away a little bit, maybe even get in the driveway across the street, point that hose bed back towards the house that we're going to, and then we have all those options there for us. We're out of the way for the truck. that gives them that option to get right in front of the house, get their their ladders up, get their sticks up. We've got plenty of hose. We can stretch around them. So man, all day long I'm I'm going off the back. I've even joked about I wish we could take our cross lays off our rig because I got a lot of passionate guys that I work with and they they come up with all kinds of options for our cross lays and I said the other day what if we just take them off and put a couple saws in there or something and that went over really well

Corley: But I love it. I love it. I got I got two phenomenal questions coming at you from the audience from two phenomenal people. Both of them are basically asking you for your tops So one's leadership, one's operations. So which one, which one I'll I'll give dealers choice. You want to start with leadership or operations Eric Toland: Go ops. Corley: Okay, we'll go ops. It's Kurt Isaacson coming at you. He said your favorite standpipe hose pack and why. And he wants to know your top five tips for standpipe operations. Eric Toland: Way to stir the pot there. But happy to do it. Of course at Denverload. And and Ray and I have a kind of an ongoing banter between the two two hose loads. one I think it's the if I may take the opportunity one hose load you can understand where it came from because it's kind of like carrying an old boom box on your shoulder and walking around The Denver load, we don't have as many guys around to carry boom boxes, so it just fits on your pack really well. So you have free hands to walk up the stairs. That's my little deal if you will. But it I mean it it's there's three of us ultimately that are heading up in the building. in Denver. The engineers at the at the panel getting the rig going. So we're carrying four hose packs, sometimes five, and being able to hang that pack onto your bottle, carry a set of irons. and and head up with your hands free to be able to to whatever you work the radio open the door set a wedge somewhere you know do all those things I feel is is it works so well for us So by all means that that Denver hosts back. Ultimately, you know, I've gone round and round on this. Man, if your department uses something, use what you're going to use, but be good at it so that you can put it in place on at ODARK 30 when there's there's fire showing there's people jumping out the windows and and you need it in place now it you need to be proficient at whatever you're gonna use. My personal favorite Denver back of course all day long. Now the five tips that was the second part of this right right easy question. Yeah so the all right let's see here where can I start You have to prepare.

Eric Toland: So you have to start well ahead of time. You gotta get out and you gotta know your buildings, understand what those those standpipes are are all about, what you're gonna face in teaching stamp pipe operations. I love, I can better be prepared because we could go on some big tangents here. about this no doubt yeah all right help keep me on track but stand pipe operations i truly believe are the hallmark of a of an excellent engine company It's the most complex evolution that you'll ever face because you're taking all your stuff off the rig, you're going into a building, you're going to face difficult communications, you're going to face climbing up a stairwell to who knows how many flights you're going up there's on the working fires that I've been at in in high-rise buildings, there's people coming down and it's places that you go to a lot. So they're like, is this one real? You know, and they're hauling their pets and wearing a variety of different things, you know, it's just a it can be a mess just trying to get up the stairs themselves. You can't let that be something that is the first domino to fall.

Corley: To start it. Yeah, the chain. Eric Toland: Understanding that building, where are the stairwells and what are the stairwells like? Are they are they tight? Are they what's it gonna be like with people coming down and then having being ready for that so that mental preparation I think is is maybe part two of the whole thing but understanding like what's the building like how are we mentally going to prepare for this and then having someone coupled with that that's gonna say we're gonna have a fire here so let's train on it getting in that building and actually doing the stretches understanding do you have PRVs or not what are you up against with that system there's a building in our area that Chief McGrill has a great picture of where somebody came along and they used a sawzall and they cut off the FTC. It was gone. You know, so you gotta be prepared for that. Like what are you gonna do when you face those kinds of things, especially in a high crime area like that? another piece of that that preparation The next thing is like once you get up there, you know, how are you gonna implement that operation? If it's your first time doing it, it's not gonna go great. I can tell you that right now. But as I mentioned, that's the hallmark of an excellent engine company. If they can do all that stuff under that high stress, high pressure situation, it means that they've trained on it and they're prepared for it. So that preparation, again, is another piece of that five pieces. of how are those host packs getting laid down and that's the details of it. I think that could be marked down maybe as number three. But understanding the actual finer points of it Laying the hose packs down in a certain way. And in Denver, it's you lay them down. There's two straps on the male side. And it's two straps to the male side, mail side to the fire side. It's this little mantra, at least for me, that's what I go through. in my head that helps to actually bring things into a more calmer space in all that chaos. Look down, the packs are laid out right. Perfect. As the officer, I'm taking off and I'm going up to do my recon. I look back and I can see those packs are laid out right.

Eric Toland: The guys were already on opening the cabinet to get the flush going. They got the gated valve going on They got the big gauge going on. Boom. All that stuff's coming together. Making my way up. Understanding your outside environment, I think is another key point now that we, you know We have to be hyper-vigilant in a sense of understanding the flow path and our wind conditions on buildings. A lot of those high rises in our area specifically have balconies. And it's funny because you can look on the outside and you can see you could pick out a lot of the hoarder apartments because the balconies are hoarder balconies. You know, and you get a you get a work and fire on that balcony, it's only a matter of time. If that's the windward side, once that sliding glass door breaks. breaks, then what if that breaks, if you can see that on the way in, gather that information on the way in, you have to be hyper-vigilant at understanding when is it right to force that door and what can you look for in that hallway. So coordinating that with the truck company so that that door just doesn't get blasted open. So understanding that piece, you know, getting that that good recon and then Making the stretch, okay? Getting that recount coming back down, having the crew make that stretch effectively and proficiently Once the hoses are connected, the straps are off, we're moving up, coordinating with that truck company. They got the door secured, it's opened. We're going right in. We've got the proper flow set. We've got a person who's setting that flow because they've done it before. They've practiced it. you know, and then we get in there and and and hopefully, you know, that two and a half punches it in the throat, takes care of everything And I know I didn't go down the line on that of five points very well, but hopefully that paints the picture of some of those finer details that I believe really need to take place in that type of situation.

Corley: It was an excellent answer. I'm not sure I could articulate which one was one, two, three, four, five. But it was all it was all in there. It was all in there and it was very, it was very well articulated. So thank you for that. That covers the operations question. This is the final question I'm asking from the audience, which was the leadership side, which comes from Rob Fisher, and he wants to know what two nuggets Would you give a young firefighter looking at promoting to company officer in the DFD? Eric Toland: Oh man. Great question. Great question, Rob. I love that question in a way because you know I've had the opportunity to talk with some of our guys from from station 23 as a as a matter of fact who have promoted and and it's been such a cool thing to see. i'm so proud of some of these guys and so for me at least it's truly driving home that point and highlighting what an impact that officer can have on the crew you really can set the tone for the day. Even in our system, you promote, you go into a roving pool. So you typically get assigned to a district and then you're the rover as we call it and you just fill in. at firehouses. So you don't have a home necessarily. but you can still have a huge impact. And one of the worst things I experienced as a as a firefighter was I was on probation and we had a roving officer come come in and I I remember asking him like hey what you know anything I should know from you today expectations I'm new and he said I don't give it I don't give a crap. Like I'm just a Roman officer, like a substitute teacher. It doesn't really matter. And I I was crushed by that. I hated that answer. And it obviously it stuck with me. and that i feel like that's truly not the case you you can show up and you can still have a huge impact so taking that seriously that position seriously and understanding the impact that you can have I truly believe that we have so many good people on our job that are just looking for leadership, that are looking for people to inspire them. to show them something, to get out and train, to get out of the firehouse, break that routine of, you know, get to the store and then cook lunch and then watch a movie and then wait for calls and then complain about this, someone else that comes in there with a different attitude, a positive attitude that gets out the door and does some new things, some fun things, and even just the fundamentals.

Eric Toland: Like like hammering the fundamentals because the fundamentals are what make the difference in the long run. You know, if you can do the fundamentals well, when that domino does fall, you can stop, stand it back up, and keep going. And I believe that. So understanding the position of that role, like the impact that you can have as that officer, bringing positivity. And then getting out and training and making a difference every day with that that training and doing stuff, just trying to have a positive impact every day Corley: I love it. Absolutely. Great, great answer. Great questions from the audience. Thank you for them all. We didn't get to all the questions, but there is one topic that we wanted to touch on before we closed out. and moved on and that is gratitude. The you know you yeah when I asked you about topics you you let off with this and I wanted to close with it when we when we were done with the questions And you wanted to say you wanted to basically to talk about the people that have been your mentors and who's invested in you and the gratitude towards them. I'll let you put it in your own words.

Eric Toland: Yeah, you know, I I feel like Let me start over again. In that presentation I do, the mental game, I go into a piece I call a historical perspective, because we each have one, right? There's something that happened. to each of us that lit that fire that started us on that path and part of this ties directly into what we just talked about that officer could be the person that lights the flame for that particular person in that firehouse, right? Recognizing how important that can be. I talk about the thing I call indirect leadership because people are always watching what we're doing, right? and someone maybe roves into our firehouse one day. they've heard all kinds of things, but man, if they leave there going, these guys were gentlemen. We trained all day, we had a great time, we caught a little fire, it went awesome Like that makes such an impact on that person and it can truly set them off on a different course for the rest of their career. And the reason I bring that up and I wanted to express that is because that's what happened to me. And I look back on some of these things that I didn't realize at the time. as a young firefighter getting started on everything of like, wow man, I I am who I am because of these certain people that either helped steer me this direction or Or or pulled me aside and said, hey, you know, time out, that's not a good thing to do, but this is a good path to go on. And and just recognizing that we all are that person at one point or another, and we might not be aware of it. So So keeping that in the back of our minds. And it's something we've talked a lot tonight already about gratitude and how it's truly a practice that I believe in. and i can't sit here and and talk about all these things that that i'm passionate about and and happy to share and talk about without at least taking a moment and saying It's because of all those people that put me on this path. You know, going way back to to being in a small town Durango where I had people that, you know The guys on that fire department were retired Chicago firefighters who just had they exuded heart and tradition and pride.

Eric Toland: and that's that planted a seed inside me. You know, and then the chief who was an ex-hard rock miner who I believed ate nails for breakfast every day, but believed in me and and was like just an awesome guy, a mentor for me Transfer that on to then being at West Metro, you know, and and Brian Brush and I got to work together with some fantastic people that that helped us on our path. And obviously both of us went in different directions and are hopefully making positive impacts in the places that we've gone. And we wouldn't be those people that we are today without that piece. You know, some of the people that we got to work with there who made a huge impact on us and people that we keep in touch with still to this day and and are grateful for And so my point with this again is like as a company officer, I try to bring this up so that we each can recognize and just take a moment of like Man, am I setting a good example for the people around me? That rider that came in and rode with us, did he leave here going, I wanna do this, or did he leave here going, he or she saying, I had a terrible experience with those guys. I did I didn't appreciate that. Because that impact, that little thing that we do can be very, very profound. And so just to take that second and be express that gratitude for what I was exposed to along my path that that set me on this to where I'm at now and you know guys like Kurt and and Rob and and Ray and Dennis and and you and all these people that have come along and it's it's it's awesome to have and it's awesome to be a part of this profession. So I'm grateful for that.

Corley: Awesome message, brother. Awesome message. I love it, man. And that takes us to the book or books, which I'm kind of curious because you asked me earlier. You're like You like, is there you asked me a question. You basically said, hey, is there a limit to how many books I can mention or something along those lines? Or you asked how many. So I was like, I'm very curious. But book or books that you think firefighters should be reading Eric Toland: Yeah, so in that presentation I have at the end a a reading list. I had to keep making the font smaller and smaller because I I kept adding books to it, but some that I I definitely wrote down starts first and foremost with Dennis Smith report from Indian Company 82. Corley: Boom, baby. Eric Toland: And I think of it as kind of along the lines of like a new firefighter, and we'll finish with maybe an a couple company officer. But that one lit the fire for me. That was another piece in that that my historical perspective of what a great book to set me on that path of You know, I'm not living in the war years, but man, did that just fire me up to be a firefighter. And if you read that book and you're not just pumped up and Maybe you should think about something else. You know, it's an awesome book. then next is of course Norman's Handbook of Tactics. There's so many good lessons in that book to learn from. Next is Ryan Holiday's Ego is the enemy. I think that's so valuable because you take those other two books and there's no ego in either of those books. And one thing that you see a lot of times is how ego can just mess things up. You can walk into a firehouse sometimes and you can feel that ego that's present and it can immediately shut things down. But if that's not present, it opens things up to growth and to getting better and to learning more and having a better environment for that. And Ryan Holliday does a great job talking about that. his book. how to win friends and influence people by a guy named Dale Carnegie. It's a weird title I know. I was kind of suspect when I first read it, but man, does it do a great job of just how do you talk to people and how do you treat people on a daily basis.

Eric Toland: It's a good one that I kind of revisit every now and then to think about, trying to be a little more aware of of the things that I do. I'm not perfect. I mess up a lot of times in the way that I say things and come across. And so that's a good one to revisit, to just understand that. Man Surf for Meaning by Victor Frankl. Man, that is one of my all-time favorites because you talk about hard times and having a positive mindset and getting through things, that there's no book really that compares to that one. And I draw on that, I've drawn on that many times in my life, professionally and personally, of like, all right, I can get through this. you know, these difficult times. as an officer, one that had a profound impact on me is a real small book and it's called From Good to Great by a guy named Jim Collins Corley: Yeah. Eric Toland: And and it just goes through little pieces where I believe he talks about one thing in there like pockets of excellence. And we can't necessarily always sometimes we want to impact an entire organization. We want to make the entire job change. But we can't always do that. But what we can do is focus on what we our control the controllables, you know. We can focus on our firehouse, for example, or our little piece of the world, our district, whatever it might be And if we can make that great, and this goes back to that question that the gentleman had about his firehouse with his officer who's engaged, make that a pocket of excellence because people will go towards that. Jim Collins touches on that. great book that Kurt recommended to me was The Energy Bus by John Gordon. I love that book. And I revisit that one often as well. And that just has to do with What are you allowing to take your energy? Where are you going with your energy and the energy that comes your way, positive and negative? it's a fantastic book the energy bust by john gordon jocko's dichotomy of leadership man i draw on that one all the time we talked about it on that question that I wish I could go back and answer in in some different ways about the the policy.

Corley: Sure. Eric Toland: But that's that one hits some of that stuff the nail on the head, I believe. Call Sign Chaos by Jim Mattis. Corley: Mattis, yeah. Eric Toland: Where he goes into some of those things as well of sometimes you just have to go along with what's being brought down. And it's your job to uphold some of those things and other times it's your job to push back and understand in those things i love that book last one probably my favorite here is thoughts of a physical philosophical fighter pilot by James Stockdale. Corley: Okay. Eric Toland: I'm a fan of the Stoics and this one, man, I I could not put this book down. I absolutely love it. It goes into his time in the Hanoi Hilton. Corley: Right. Eric Toland: Discipline ultimately helped lead to their success in getting through the difficult times. and drawing on stoicism for strength as a leader in that situation. I think about that often in in that that the daily grind of the firehouse and and showing up and and and finding the understanding the control of controllables, the Marcus Aurelius type thoughts. it's an excellent book. Corley: Excellent. I know I love it. I love the list, brother. In fact, yeah, I don't I I'm going to try and get a copy of that slide with the tiny font with all the books on it. And I'll put it out on Firehouse Vigilance so people can, instead of trying to reach out to you to get the list, they can just they can just download it. I love that. Which takes us to the five questions for firefighters. This is the third iteration, the version 3. 2 to be exact over the episodes. Long story short, there are no wrong answers. There is only your opinions and the points are arbitrary. They're assigned by me with the help of the audience. So my question for you, are you ready for the five questions for firefighters?

Eric Toland: Ready. Corley: All right, here we go. Number one, what is the skill that has carried you through your fire service career? Eric Toland: and I I I it's not a skill per se, but I gotta go with grit. You know, I talked about doing hard things and I got this. Some people have said it's kind of a sadistic thing, but like the more hard things you do, the more you welcome the hard things that come your way. it took me a long time to get hired by my dream the Denver Fire Department but there wasn't a doubt in my mind that I was giving up on it like it was gonna happen and it did happen and just that grit coupled with perseverance, I think that's what helps get through the hard times. we face challenges, you know, big city politics and and different types of leaders as I've touched on multiple times tonight, but you get through that with knowing that that you can you can tough it out, you can make a difference and knowing that there's there's something better at the at the end of it all Grit. Oh grit. Corley: Grit. Hey, easy max points. And I and I mean we met tonight for the first time face to face over the interwebs. And I can say after after having this conversation with this evening, I'd have been surprised if the if this the answer to number one wasn't some form of grit or perseverance or something along those lines. So we're just talking to you tonight and the answers to your questions. So easy max points and very the congruence is there with the answers. So I love it. I love it. Number two It's job town. It's time. You're in route and responding. It's the scene from backdraft. You're running to catch up with the rig, but you're responding to a job. What song are you playing while in route?

Eric Toland: Man, this is such a tough one. I love music. I love all kinds of music. I mean I I listen to to opera, I listen to classical, I listen to to the country and and hip-hop. For this one, I gotta go old school hip-hop. This band called The Far Side. In 1995, they had a song called Running. And it's just pretty chill, but it's focused. It puts you on point. and that that's what I'm going with. Because we're going to far side. Corley: The far s the far side or far side? Eric Toland: The far side. Corley: The far side running. Eric Toland: In the ghetto. Yeah. Corley: All right. It's going to be added to the playlist. There's a Spotify playlist that you can listen to. and people listen to it while they work out to get ready for Job Town. But 100% max points for the far side running. I'll have to check it out Number three, what is your favorite fire service tradition? Eric Toland: And it's another hard one. One thing I got You're standing at the back of the rig after a good job and there's a line of guys there with all their hands on that hose line as it's getting loaded back onto the rig You know, it's just the coolest thing and you don't see it everywhere, you know, and it's it's unique because you know not everybody needs to touch that hose, but guys do it and they're catching up with each other and the hose is going on the rig and there's a lot of smack talking And we're we're picking up after a good job. I love that. You know, and then to couple that, man, you can't replace the the table the kitchen table at our firehouse we're lucky we got this beautiful table in the back of the bay and that's that's we sit there more than at the kitchen table but Some of my best moments that I cherish the most are just sitting back, kind of maybe, maybe a little back from everybody, but sitting back and listening and watching, just seeing everybody interact and and understanding what a special place that is. it you can't you don't find that everywhere. It's a wonderful thing. It's a great tradition of that.

Corley: Oh brother, yeah, I you know yeah, absolutely. I'd love the both yeah maybe this dan bender said it maybe the second time for loading hose max points Joe Govita said love that answer Gregory Van Ham said max points so easy max points one through three this one is on the clock And you kind of touched on this a little bit with the with the with because we we talked about gratitude and mentors, but it'll be interesting to see your four people. with the clock running. You have one minute to answer your four people you would put on your Mount Rushmore of the fire service. Eric Toland: So I got to start with somebody that Don't know, but this guy named Chuck Himsel and he was the chief of my dad's tiny little town in Mount Horeb, Wisconsin. Some people know about him because I he was such an icon in the fire service, just like like the biggest buff you ever met. And I remember being a little kid and walking through the firehouse with him. I rode on a rig and a parade in my dad's hometown. And there's a picture of me on the rig with Chuck Himsel, the fire chief. And I have to believe that that's probably where it all started. So he's up there. Then we got Francis Brannigan, we got Andy Fredericks, and we got Tom Brennan. Who I could As soon as that magazine used to show up for me, I'd open the back page and read you know Tom Brennan's random thoughts.

Corley: Love it, brother. Absolutely crushed. 14 seconds to spare. Absolutely love the answers. Pulling it back up here. Getting it there. There. Thank you. And finally, Easy Max. But final question. No, you're an engine guy, so it'll be interesting to see your answer in the why. But heavy fire, searchable space. Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on VES? Eric Toland: All day long man. I'm on that nozzle. There's nothing more special than being deep inside a building. You got a fire, you know, in the attic or or above you, or you you make that corner and you get to the room and it's the time to open the nozzle. You get the opportunity to make the knock on that fire And and I can't put it into words nearly as well as what Ray McCormick has done on the Brass Tax Hard Facts video where he talks about being the nozzleman on a fire. it's just it's a very profound it's a very intimate experience when you're in there and you there's so much responsibility because you can truly make the biggest difference on a fire being being a the nozzle firefighter and and i i encourage everybody to watch that video of ray talking about it because man it gives me goosebumps just thinking about it right now because it's so it's so profound but that's yeah, that's where I gotta be. And I it's that's one of the hardest reasons, biggest reasons I'm having a hard time thinking about promoting because I still get to go do that. And it's just there's nothing like it

Corley: There you go. The audience absolutely agrees with you with a lot of max points coming from those who are a fan of the nozzle. Kyle Piverl said max points. Kurt Isaacson said absolutely they need you on the nozzle. And he did it in all caps. Jeff Stone gave you max, max, max, max, max points Dan Bender said shocker max points. Trading seconds, Ron's here. He said the knob is the job. John Velez max points every time for the nozzle. And Kurt Eisen said, best brass tacks video is raised on the nozzle firefighter. I'm running out of time to do all caps. So there you go. Eric Toland: There you go. A lot of good people out there. Thanks, everybody. Corley: I love it. Nozzle all day. People are saying, and that officially brings to a close. That officially makes it 266 scraps in the books. My brother Eric Toland. Thank you for sharing your evening with us. If people want to get a hold of you, get more information, reach out to you. What's the best way to do so? Eric Toland: Yeah, I have social media. I'm not great at keeping up with it, but E. R. Toland is the name you can find me at Instagram and Facebook and I'll just put my email out there. It's ertoland at gmail. com. Hit me up. I love talking about this stuff. I love making the connections. out there and I've kind of stepped back from teaching the last few years and and looking forward to kind of coming back into it again. Spend some time dedicated some more time at home with the family and like I said I'll be back in Florida in December with Chief McGrail doing some teaching there so I'm looking forward to that and hoping to see some some of the audience out there.

Corley: Awesome, brother. I'm sure you will. I'm sure you will. Okay, housekeeping Audience, go to patreon. com slash the vigilantes. The discord is up and running. It is very active. If you are looking for a place to connect with like-minded souls, go become a vigilante. Plain and simple. It's a blast already, and we are just getting started with the Discord. one of the cool parts, of course, about being a vigilante is you get the invite to the after party where Eric has agreed to come and get roasted by us, the vigilantes, in the after party. Sam is now posting that link for the scrap after party in the vigilantes, in the Discord, in the Patreon. Next week, it is another Eric, this time Eric Roden. So it promises to be another amazing scrap. And then the week after. Mr. Search Culture himself, Justin McWilliams, and you know he's gonna speak his mind. So the party that is 2024 on the scrap continues. All right, enough jabbering from me. Let's get to the after party. Thank you once again, Eric Tolan, for sharing your evening with us and for being such a phenomenal guest. Eric Toland: Thank you guys.

Corley: Audience, you make the scrap magical. It would not exist without you coming in and showing up each and every week. Thank you for tuning in live. I love you all. Remember, mutts don't scrap. I hope the tones stay silent unless it is burning. Everybody, stay safe out there.