Weekly Scrap #250 - Curt Isakson, Faith Family, Fire, Friends and the Future.

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Corley: Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance. It is weekly scrap number two five zero. And my guest is none other than Chief Ike, Chief Kurt Isaacson. He is a 30-plus year veteran of the fire service. With experience working in volunteer, career, combination, urban, suburban, rural, you name it, he is a lifetime student of the fire service. He is currently a battalion chief in Escambia County fire rescue. He is highly sought after educator and speaker. If there is a conference worth going to, Chief Ike has spoken there. For ten years now, he has brought in hundreds. hundreds and hundreds of firefighters together at Pensacola Beach with his world class conferences. I could go on and on talking about everything this man has done. That doesn't even include the articles he has written. the studies he has done but that's not why we are here let's talk people before water gallons per second embrace the target tactics put out fires it's worth the risk It is my absolute honor to have you on as the guest of weekly scrap number 250. Welcome, my brother. Welcome, my friend. Kurt Isaacson. He is one of the smartest people in the fire service, and it is absolutely my pleasure to have him on as the guest of Scrap No. 250. Welcome.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Thanks, brother. Thanks for having me on. I'm excited about it. It seems like last month we did 200 and it's been a year. So congratulations to you man. 250. Like people don't realize what that is. Like that's a that's you know that's grinding it out consistent it's so easy to do something for a week a month a year but to do 250 I mean easy numbers that's you know that's five years Corley: No, brother, I I I am super proud and super humbled and blown away by the the relationships formed and the people I get to call friends. And so Thank you, thank you, thank you for being here to celebrate it. Is there anything I missed in the intro? Anything you want to add? Chief Kurt Isaacson: Nah, just the best job in the world. I love it. Corley: Absolutely. All right, audience. There's a lot of them here. I'm going to try and read a few comments. I'm going to try because they've been they've been getting amped up for the last at least 30, 40 minutes Ready for Ty Daniel said, ready for Ike to rock it out. Listening in from Cottendale, Florida in the 850. Steve Mauch said, Chief Who. Jason Gregory said, let's get ready to rumble. Dan Bender said, I'm doing a shot every time Corley drinks from his tumblers tonight. Good luck, Dan Bender, on staying upright what's in the cup tonight is modello. Let's go. Ohio is crushing it tonight. So much going on. Dustin Duncan. Yeah, there we go. First timer. Super stoked to be a part of this. That comes from Ryan or Seth Brandon Rodriguez then I there's too many. There's too many chief. There's still there's probably still another hundred comments of the LFG variety saying let's get this on. So with all that being said, audience Please, please, please throw your questions at Chief Ike. This is scrap 250, and I want only the best hard, fast, down-the-middle fastballs coming at him so he can crush them and knock him out of the park. So send your questions Kyle Romagus is here. He's in Michigan tonight, fielding your questions. Sam is here. He is fielding your questions. And so absolutely. And with all that being said. Let's get the sponsors done. Let's pay the bills. And then we will move into the beautiful, beautiful Scrap 250. The original sponsor of the scrap, Keyhose.

Corley: Check them out online at Keyhose. com and follow them on Facebook. Affordable Drill Towers on a mission to bring you cost-effective and versatile training props like the Affordable Belout Prop, which allows you to practice window bailouts, ladder bailouts, and ladder high point rescues. Then they make the affordable standpipe prop, which you can roll into the classroom for standpipe theory and then roll it into the parking lot and pump realistic flows and pressures. And of course their mainstay, the affordable drill tower. It comes in several configurations and standard with the standpipe system. Choose from one or two sets of stairs. Integrate it into your existing connex boxes for multi-story access or freestanding on a slab. All models are NFPA 1402 compliant and gain you ISO credit The only thing that you can't do on an affordable drill tower is live fire training. Call Steve, 844-55 Tower, or drop an email to info at affordable drilltowers. com. Firestationfurniture. com provides a complete line of quality furniture for your firehouse. Firefighter owned and operated. They understand the strain firefighters put on furniture and offer furniture that's built to last Visit firestationfurniture. com for more information. See, they understand the strain Chief Ike puts on stuff, right? They understand and they built it for him right there. And finally, last but not least, firefighter safety and accountability starts with being able to quickly find and identify individual firefighters operating on the fire ground. Identifier safety combines the best in photoluminescent materials. for durable firefighter identification solutions that can glow for up to 20 hours, no switches, no batteries, which means being able to identify firefighters by name, unit, or assignment, even under hot fire conditions, all specifically designed and tested for the rigors of the job. Be seen on scene. Identifiersafety. com Chief, you did amazing, man. That's that was awesome, man. Alright, are you ready to get to the scrap? Let's do it. Let's do this. Absolutely. Let me pull these let me pull these notes down here so I get them in the right place. There we go. I'm going to kick it off with one of my favorite quotes, one of the first things I ever learned from you, and I keep it near and dear to my heart, but It's one of my favorite quotes that came from Chief Ike, and that is tactics put out fires.

Corley: I want you to just talk about that to just to get the audience primed and ready so they can send their questions in that, and then we'll go down some rabbit holes. Chief Kurt Isaacson: So go ahead. well you know, I I'm fortunate enough, lucky enough, Peter Matthews has me doing the command success column three times a year in Firehouse Magazine. It's the primary command and control incident command, fire ground command column and you know if you read it and I'm gonna start getting more my column's gonna be more geared towards actual command operations considerations as a command officer based on staffing strategy offensive defensive reorganized go back offensive but I've always said you know that If you got a football team, a soccer team, and the teams there to coach don't show up, you can still play the ballgame, right? You know, Nick Saban comes down to really the last two minutes of the football game, you know, what timeouts did he save. But the players are making making it happen. And you know, you know, I don't care what it is. You can have, you know, blue card and and have perfect radio transmissions great incident action plan, phenomenal apparatus and radios, but if your firefighters don't know how to use a 30-inch pro bar or you know they don't know how to use a flashlight Or, you know, that they don't understand how to use a thermal imager truly properly how to use it, when to use it. They don't understand when and where they might use a nozzle like the L-Cart bill tip having stuff like that or no one wouldn't like to use a Bresden nozzle and avoid space fire all that fancy radio command control countability tags is pointless because if they can't force the door we can't get a line in the building. If we force the door but they can't push in, they can't flow while they're pushing. They don't understand water mapping. People don't have understand You know what type of blade? You know, taking a a saw to the roof. Like if you look behind these one of these new battery-powered walled soles and you're not paying attention what blades on there, you're not gonna get the roof open. The other night we had a pretty We could fire in a old rural highway type motel converted to permanent living apartments, hoarding conditions.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: And, you know, at the end of the day, it was a metal roof over the original flat gravel roof. So you're going up to cut metal. You're not cutting, you know, dimensional shingles, you're you know, those sort of things. so at the end of the day, you've got to make sure you understand tactics and You know, I get a little concerned because, you know, firefighters are always looking for the next best thing. And I get it. This used to be the orange. I call it the Chicago light, it was the original light box. You know, mine's yellow And I actually have four of these that I bought personally in my rig and I bought the conversion kit for a couple of them. It has the floodlights and This light wasn't replaced. We just added the smaller lights, whatever it is, whether you know it's the Vulcan or you buy you a special one. In 92, my dad bought me a Sears and Robux light because It looked the closest thing to what FDNY was wearing. I made my own homemade strap. Had a little 110 plug in the back in 1992. And I wore it. And so You know, I see more and more firefighters. They think because they got that 90 degree light or they got a helmet light or light in your pocket. I'm gonna tell you right here, this is the light that's gonna find a civilian. This is the light if you look at the front piece back there, brush gaming, firefighter rescues . com over 3,000 document rescues. We're already seeing that this is a great tool. This tool probably is more useful exterior size up, interior size up, but searching is going to be your hands it's gonna be that flashlight that's down your no light not a helmet light not one of your things and i've always Thought you should wear it well this strap is under your waist strap and this one's out so this light's doing this when I'm on the ground it's down here This chess light's not gonna find a kid on the floor, an adult on the floor. This light's okay. It's like this is the light that's searching for life, layout, and fire. This is the light that's gonna get the job done And it just, you know, I'm you look at any busy rescue company, you look at, you know, guys on squads in Chicago, the rescues in New York, you know, the rescues out of the West Coast.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Those busy urban city firefighters doing a lot of interior search work, whether it's single family, multi-family work, they're still carrying this light. They're not relying on this So don't be lazy. This is it, man. This is this is part of your tactical capabilities is that natural sling. And then, you know, there's there's all kinds of debates out there. Years ago I used to carry a straight blade because you could pull it out. Cut you didn't have to open it. I got poked that little spooked. So I've just been carrying a spider coat inside of my light for probably 20 years But if you look at most big city guys, they're carrying one of these because they can pull out of their radio, they cut, they don't have to fold it with their gloves on. So you got to be realistic about what we're doing I was fortunate to be a helper, if you will, with Tim Clett at FDTN with the hoarding conditions. And that was just two years ago. And wire cutters, just for an example. You can have all these crazy ideas about how you're going to carry your wire cutters and golf balls and tennis balls in a spring-loaded knot. Does it cut all the way to the end? But until you've really done it, it's all theory. So your tactics have got to be sound, solid, proven, on the fire ground, under stress inoculation. under you know 12 medical calls under your belt and you're you know 20 hours into your shift you look at the old the Mayday reports that's between midnight and 6 a. m so Those tactics are what's going to get us done. You know, you look back in the early 90s when I was working on an engine. We were lucky to have four. Most of the time we had three And so I got the little officer's tool from Bob Farrell. This one here, literally, I've had over 30 years. And all I did was I hooked a, I wrapped it with like a mariner's wrap with some some rope and this is the actually the original rope that went on it it's on my light now and I just carried it just like I did my light around the side so I'm on a nozzle But I got to a single room occupancy. I needed to take a window.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: I had this with me. It's better than nothing. I can pop maybe a little lock in half. Corley: oh. Oh shit. Chief Kurt Isaacson: You're back. Corley: You're back. It was just, I don't know what happened. You went black for a second, but you're back. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Okay. Corley: Just a blink. Just a blink. Chief Kurt Isaacson: So, you know, things like this is what's gonna get it done. Understanding. At the end of the day, and thanks, shout out to Garrett Grody. sorry today, buddy, I couldn't answer. He called me. I was working on a million projects, but Garrett got this nozzle, refinished it, and shipped it to me. What a brother. Ship this to me as a gift. What a surprise And, you know, Elkart Brass, you know, is our biggest sponsor at CFT. And just think about this, how old it is. And still today we talk about tactics. Most of our tactics haven't changed a lot. And I'm so proud and excited about the the L Cart's XD But you know, things change, but they don't change. If you look in some of the old manuals like John Norman Farrell's or Handbook, they used to make these tips homemade out of brass. Why did it take us decades to get a manufacturer to make this where anybody could buy? Like you had to homemake make it till just a couple of years ago. This is less than a hundred bucks. I screwed on a nozzle. This is tactics. Even as a chief officer, I want this as an option I put this in my pocket, whether the nozzle firefighter officer, whatever, I go in, I'm mapping, you know, I still think the 7-8 smooth board is the best nozzle in the fire service. I think it gives us the right reach, the right amount, the right nozzle reaction, combat mobility. We get in and we knock the fire out We got tiny groove ceilings fires in the attic and avoid space. I throw this thing on there, put it in the attic. Now I'm shooting water out to those these and putting an attic fire. They used to, we had to climb up on top of You know, a desk, a bed, you know, the kitchen cabinets. so all these things are tactics, and we got to make sure that we're staying on top of it It's sad to think a lot of the fire service put the Bresna, the cellar nozzle, you know, in a warehouse on a shelf These need to be on the rings with a short section of hose with a ball shut off whether you're dropping it through a hole in the roof or a roof over a roof fire void-space fire on a mobile home, off-grade house, whatever it is, this is gonna get you water in places that in the past we couldn't put those fires out when we should have been putting them out.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: We just didn't fall back on foundational tactics. And, you know, I look back to 10 years in a row we did HROC and the stuff that was done on Pensacola Beach is phenomenal by some great people cheap Pagrell, you know, Bill Gustin, they had the urban and then Gustin had the suburban track, and just taking this and dropping it off the side of the balcony on the floor above And let the wind carry it in. Something we already have. We didn't even have to purchase it. You already got it on the rigs. so just maximize them that you know potential of what we're doing little things today i got it out just because you know we're working on training the most important proby Justin, our oldest son, Trevor, graduated University of Florida, and now he's riding a bunch with us at Escambia, getting checked off. I went and got my gloves out. These are literally my first pair of gloves that I got issued when I was a full-fledged firefighter in 1992. And these were interior. I mean these are the interior, like thin. I mean, at the end of the day, I realize we want more protection, but we talk about tactics. You know, are you spending the money if your fire department's giving you the bulky ones? Are you spending a hundred bucks On a pair of gloves so you can work a halligan, work a soul. Because here's the deal. When you're getting your car worked on, that mechanic's buying his own tools. That snap-on truck comes by It's a lot of money. So invest in yourself. Get good gloves. Get a good hood. Get a good light. Get a good knife. Get a good pair of wire cutters. And what we're doing. Also for tonight, I got out in 1992. I'd read Tom Brennan's backpage Random Thoughts. He said 25-foot piece of rope. I literally That day when I was done reading that article, I drove to the eighth hardware Oreo Beach and Highway 98 here in Midway. Bought this rope Put two little clips on it. I stopped carrying it, you know, probably the late 90s because I upgraded to a L8mm, you know rope rescue high do this is just a utility but i use this for so many fires the the days in fire we had 48 motel rooms burning on three floors sarantes and palbox.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: This is the rope that I dropped down and it barely reached for them to hook a hose line to it because we trench cutted Yes, on the opposite side of the firewall at this fire because we were we were out of staffing breaches we had smoke starting to show on the other side of the firewall. We didn't have the people to get to the top floor and pull the ceilings. Trench peak to E both sides. Soon as we cut it, we wait. We didn't we didn't we didn't punch or pull and we did fires blowing through. Well that was the day tactical deviation deviate from your tactics drop this rope down has a little thing on it they clipped it just like that on the nozzle and this is from 1992 pulled that inch three quarter up there we dropped it through and made the water run down the firewall Shut it down. They got master screens on the main part of the fire on the other side of the firewall. Those 48 motel rooms 24 years later still standing because we knew when and why we were putting a hose line through a vertical vent opening based on time delay tactics, staffing. So those are critical things. And you know the fire service is moving forward. I actually just found it last week I was talking to Matt that owns Identifier, who's sponsoring tonight. And in 92, I ordered off the Gall's Catalog. Used to get the Galls Catalog. And I ordered the strip that said W. Isaacson Reflective And I had Bosso's uniform sold in the back of my coat. I got my balls busted in '92. What do you think, Isaacson? You're special. You want your name on the back of your coat, so everybody knows who you are Well shit, the name's on the back of your uniform. Well fuck yeah, I want people to know why I am when I'm walking across the fucking roof and I fall through. They say made a mate made a Isaacson's through the roof Like really? I can't fucking believe there's a fire department in the country that don't have these things on their air pack. These should be mandatory by NFPA on the back of your bottle strap. And personally I think the front should be on both shoulders, not just this one.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Both. So if I'm down this shoulder, you know, I'm down like this, instantly you identify who it is I mean we can go back to the Valentine's Day fire, 1995, Brisman Street. I've got the report. Ed Farley gave me the copy of it because you know that kind of some of that stuff back there wasn't like NIS, NIOS reports are available today and what your front piece says matters. mine aren't changed out so I'm wearing battalion five that's my off duty call sign I got one as battalion three up one is battalion too and some of them there's no number on the front because you know who are you today it's not who you're assigned to it's not what company you're infatuated with and how much you you know you love it when we find you let's just go to The Berkeley Wayfire in San Francisco, where our brothers went in. When you're coming in that side door and you come across them and you haven't, a maybe has not been transmitted Now what it says here on the air pack, what it says on here, last name, company, what it says on your pack, the bottom of your coat. Mayday, Mayday, Mayday, Battalion 5, Isaacson, located unconscious, second floor. And so, you know, maydays aren't just about you transmitting a Mayday for yourself. You may transmit a Mayday if you come across an unconscious you know incapacitated firefighter how rapidly can you identify them is their name on their front piece is their name on the bottom of the helmet I don't give two shits if your fire departments on your front piece. You know, the rank's nice just for the civilians. I definitely want your last name and I want the company or your your radio designation Name on your mask and I want that airpad. And like you see behind me right there, thanks to Morning Pride. Name on the bottom of coat. All that stuff, you know, is just so critical and it it's you know some of it's cultural some of it's a pride company pride but what it really comes down to is accountability and one of my command success columns And Firehouse talked about accountability beyond the tags. And it is this identifier tag system. It's the fire trucks. Bruno Sini Bruno Cini, like over 30 years ago, was talking about the slide-outs.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: In the 70s, the FDNY was taking cardboard and duct tape on reserve rigs because it's coming down the street. My ass is screwed up so many times in a fire. If you watch the X Street video with a grab where ladder's roll makes the grab I'm saying squad three. It's not squad three. We just got three brand new rigs. It was engine 11. Rigs were relocated for a training exercise The arrival sequence was jacked up in my head. I failed to really look at the cat properly. But at the end of the day, those things is what I'm going to see on the front, rear, and side And all that's identification for who is. Just like numbers. You know, you know, Coach Billy Napier is doing an okay job down here at the swamp. But last year they had two fucking players wearing the same number. Like give me a break. It's the SEC the planet the panic got $33 million And he's got a gazillion coaches and got two football players wearing the same number. Stupid shit like that cost him a penalty. Corley: Alright, that was covered tactics put out fires. Absolutely. That's the opening, that was the opening warm-up question. I want everybody to understand that that was the opening warm-up question there are so many questions coming at you from the audience and i want to get to those but you talked about training the most important probi i want you to hit on that i want you to hit on that and then i'll then i'm gonna get to the audience because i want to involve them but go ahead chief

Chief Kurt Isaacson: All right, so you know, all my whole family obviously is involved in the fire service. My dad, I grew up, you know, going to fire since I was a little kid All three of my kids, you know, I I would say my kids probably came to the firehouse and a scambia growing up more than any other single kid on the job jessica brought them up there all the time i mean they just came you know ladder 12 was a brand new firehouse that opened september 2007 17 years ago i mean Trevor was five, Catherine was three, Lucas was one. They've been coming there since that age. We've had birthdays there, Christmas, Thanksgiving. So my kids, you know, I really don't think you could have kids subjected to the fire service more than our kids and subjected to just some great people in the fire service running fire conferences over the years. I always had a different firefighter. My buddies demo and Gilbert from Del Norte. You know, I'd have them take them or you know, Kyle Saxon or Matt Scallon, just different people give them a ride just for that whole social skill, shaking hands, not, you know, talking, make sure, even if they're an introvert, they know how to communicate. So they know what the fire service is. They know what it can provide. You know, I'm not talking about financially, just provide for a family, the security, the picnics, you know, coming to the firehouse. the pride and ownership of it and you know Trevor was you know he was gonna be a doctor I mean he academically you know does phenomenal you know he graduated high school with a 4. 8 and You know, he just graduated 4. 0 from UF Biomedical Engineering. You know, You know, going to med school wouldn't be a problem. You know, getting in the upper 90s on organic chemistry one and two shows that he could do it. But last October he just comes to us and says, I want to be a firefighter. And, you know, people that don't know me, like they think It's BS, but I really didn't think he was gonna be a firefighter. And I don't care what any of my kids do. I just want them to be happy, that's all. And I'll tell you this: you can take this shit to the bank.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: The only fucking poor fireman is a lazy fireman So stop bitching and complaining because that's why some people don't want to be firefighters is all they hear firefighters do is moan and grope about being broken poor When a lot of people can't work a side job, they don't get much vacation, they don't have a very good pension or retirement. I mean, I've used it on the strap before the example of what school teachers make and the multiplier. we all want to make more money. I, you know, I get it, but At the end of the day, it is the best job in a world, hands down. So, you know, I'm excited about him doing it. you know, am I nervous? Am I apprehensive Because, you know, I've already told them a bunch of times. You know, it doesn't matter how smart you are. It doesn't matter how dedicated, committed you are. You can read books nonstop and stay up 24 hours a day You can only learn as jobs so fast. You got to go to jobs. You got to go to jobs under stress inoculation. You know, I like to say it. Everybody's got the answer to the test until it's time to take the test. and then your ass forgot because your heart rate's 152 beats a second you're shaking in your pants you can't hold the mic because you're you know what i mean it was easy when you're riding on a bag step now it's your time to give that size up And you know, you screw it up. Everybody's got the answers that shift change for a fire they didn't go to. You know, I got a lot of people wanting to know why I transmitted a third alarm the other night, that fire. Well, what they need to do is they need to start studying tactics What they need to do is study depth on the bench, percentage of impact, what a multiple dwelling that's been converted potentially provides when it's a cinder block. tongue and groove, roof over roof and a metal roof with hoarding conditions. So the fire service has got to stop thinking Just because you've been going to fires X number of years with this many companies or people, that that's okay. What are you gonna do when somebody says, made a mate, mate, building collapsed Squad three, centered a building in a fucking metal roof on top of them.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: God help you if you don't have people sitting on a fucking bench. that have yet to plug into air. They have yet to sweat their ass off when they're peeing yellow. Here's the deal. They ain't a fucking football team, baseball team, soccer team. They ain't a sport professional sports team in a country. That when the players are on the field, there's nobody on the bench. And 99. 9% of the time, when the fucking game's over A bunch of them never even played. They were there for the bad day. When a quarterback got hurt, a goalkeeper got hurt That's what it's about. Depth on the bench insurance fossil. Every people say all about the FD and Y. You know what people are standing across the street? They're so big, go to so much shit, and they've had so many bad incidents They know they need 53 people on the roster, even though 11 are engaging in the fire fight. Stop advertising your fucking limited ignorance If all you know is this, open your eyes and realize that you need to know this before you retire because you probably hadn't been to your worst fire. And if you transmit if you transmit a bayday, do you want two companies standing fast that are fresh? rehabbed or not even rehab you didn't have to rehab them right and guys don't think about this the other day I was at a fire and The fifth company on the box alarm when it got there. The first company's already eight minutes into breathing their air. That means the first alarm assignment really didn't engage. That'd like me starting a football, a soccer game with eight people, and in eight minutes, three more will show up. Well shit your halfbacks, your fullbacks, you're they're fucking exhausted because they're trying to make up for three players that aren't on the field I've worked up because I'm tired of people opening their mouth and letting other people know how ignorant they are, how limited they are on understanding strategy, tactics, time delay tactics, staffing And expecting the unexpected. Expecting the unexpected. Just go to Instagram. Follow Chief John Norman. Every day he does a post. And it's about something history that happened. We all wish that we had a full lineup, all starters. Nobody's hurt. Nobody's got strep throat, nobody's got bronchitis, nobody's got a torn ACL.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: But in the fire service, we've always got somebody's got a torn ACL, somebody's got asthma. I mean, we're never full strength You know, people might not be on swaps. We might be riding full staffing. But what happens when it's 42 hours into a 48-hour shift The last two days it was 92 degrees outside with 8% humidity and you were testing hose doing this You're not like you were when you got to work at 0700. So those are things we do. I got all sides that we're supposed to be talking about training the most important probies. I tell you that so you know why I tell you that? Because If my kids are gonna be in a fire service, I'm scared of fucking death who's gonna be sending them into a fire. Who's gonna go get them Are they fucking doing what I did for years where you go to a Queen Anne Victorian 1890 it was built and we do it with three engines of ladder to rescue? Up up. We don't want to call any more companies. That's not what we do. And get my ass handed to me. Even at 21 years old, I couldn't walk for two days because we needed a third alarm and we did it with a first alarm assignment. I told myself, if I ever get a chance Stand by. Stand by.

Corley: Standing by. Chief Kurt Isaacson: It's real complicated to you chiefs out there. You press a button, command, fire alarm, transmit a second alarm, and the resources start showing up You start putting people on the bench. And hopefully when the fire's out, you might have at least one company that didn't do anything, and that's a good thing. That's the third string you didn't need at this ballgame and you won the game. And see, here's what people don't think about When you cut a vertical vent opening and you needed it and it did a good job, it'll look like you didn't need it because it did its job. Corley: Right Chief Kurt Isaacson: When you call enough resources and you kick ass and you aggressively deploy default aggressive wins the war, right? Surround the enemy, overwhelm it with so many resources and don't even know what hit them. Bam! Just right upside the face, man. Corley: Right in the face. Chief Kurt Isaacson: The marines coming, the seal's coming The fucking airborne rangers, the outsop, get them all coming. Hell shit, put the Coast Guard on standby. Because you can never have too many resources for that call you've never been to. So when I talk about training the most important probing is I don't want him to fall into a historical trap of doing more with less I don't want him to fall into the trap that I do this my first year on the job. When you got five years, you can do this and this. Things change. You know, I call it graduating. So many fire officers all they know is tactics one. That's that's it. They know tactics one. And I always use the same example. Tactics one tells you where do you put the ladder company? Where do you position the ladder A alpha side. That's the fucking last place you want to put it 90% of the time. You want it in front of the Bravo exposure or the dent exposure. So you can come in and ladder the roof, get the best grub area Based on, especially if it's a two and a half story frame. I mean, but Tacties One tells you to put in front of the building. Right. See, I want the engine company in front of the building. I want the ladder just first do ladder to hold short and pull past Second ladder, now I got two ladders coming to the fire building, right?

Chief Kurt Isaacson: With an engine in the middle. That's partly where the 75-foot green feeder line comes from So you people shut the fuck up. You're advertising. Your tactics one is the only tactics class you ever took Take tactics two, tactics three, take Turpak size up class, take John Norman's firehouse class, take Avillo's class, you know, read Chief Smith's book and all his articles from Firehouse. Rest in peace, Chief Smith from Philadelphia. You gotta understand that this shit is to get on the job. That's what this is for. This is to get on the job, and then once you get on the job You gotta start reading stuff like this. You know what this is? This is the telephone book from FDIC in 1999. One of the greatest Nashville firefighters engine officers that ever worked in the American Fire Service. And the first person to type his name in comments, first person to type his name in comments, is getting a free pass to a fire conference. And based on Elkart brass being such a sponsor. First person that can type who this is and it knows is getting a free pass to a fire conference. But now it's on a CD, right I like this man. I can look this stuff up. I can get in here. See the front of this thing. Strategies and tactics for petroleum. Storage tank emergencies. Keeping instructors motivated. Get the Roof by John Noonan. Size Up a comprehensive list. Turp pack. I mean a villa. Chart house fire pre-planning the lessons learned. The list goes on and on. And this was just one FDIC. One FDIC. What a resource. That thing sits on my shelf. See, but you gotta ask yourself, why are you in a fire service? Right now, right, right now, hey, hey, right now. 30 seconds of silence. I want you to just stop and I want you to pontificate Why'd you get in a fire service? Was it for the schedule? Was it because you're so fucking stupid you couldn't do nothing else? Did somebody just tell you to fill out the paperwork? Or did you really want to be a firefighter? Did you want to make a difference? Did you want to make a change? Did you play sports? If you play sports and you sat on the bench, you know how much it sucks, because I know about sitting on a bench, right?

Chief Kurt Isaacson: I sit on a bench. My dad's the only way to get your ass off the bench is practice more than the guy that started. You just can't go to practice when he's practicing. You gotta practice more. You gotta watch more film. You gotta put in more time. So you gotta ask yourself why People ask me when I'm retired. Retirement's not even on my thought process. Like I tell people recently like if I live to retirement, I I don't even know if I'm gonna live till I mean I'm definitely gonna work Until I'm 65 has nothing to do with the pension. But it's what gets me up in the morning, right? Like what gets you up in the morning without an alarm clock? That's what the why is. That's what motive And you don't have to be obsessed with a fire service, but you do have to be good because people live and die based on your preparation, your capabilities And if you suck, you suck. See, and most of the time, people that love the job, they're good at the job. And they're good at the job because they sweat it. They invest it. They invest it physically, financially, mentally, emotionally. They sacrificed, right? I bought my first radio strap in the mid-90s. Hell, I bought my own set of irons. I went to cheap Pat Grace from you know Fire Oaks Unlimited Almost 30 years ago because we didn't have him. I wanted a real halligan. I wanted a real ex like I still got him. Hell shit, it's the halligan chief morris used for 10 years at HROC Pretty cool. Hang next to you on the wall one day. Pretty cool. Collecting dust. Right?

Corley: Chief, I gotta I got hold on, I gotta ask you a question. On the giveaway, the first person said AF. Does that count? Because there was another person who typed out the name. Which one counts according to you? Chief Kurt Isaacson: It's not Andy Fredericks. Okay. It is not Andy Fredericks. He's still alive. He's still teaching. Here's the deal. I know what it's like to be a target. I know. I fucking have enjoyed the ride. Speaker 1: Yeah. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Right? Because you gotta be doing something to be a target You gotta be doing something. You know, with a guy named Billy Graham. And I don't care what you're religious beliefs are you know doesn't matter but most people know who Billy Graham was guess what not everybody liked Billy Graham John F. Kennedy had a pretty high percentage acceptance race by the American people guess what not everybody liked joined Not everybody likes any one person. Nobody is liked by everybody. That's life, right? So You got to embrace the target if you're gonna get out there and you're gonna push the envelope and you're gonna do stuff. People aren't gonna like people are jealous for stupid shit, man. You know, and I'll tell you my new thing, and I gotta share this with you I'm not jealous of what anybody has. I'm jealous of what people are willing to do. Somebody's willing to like sell everything and go cross country to national parks That family took that bus and put their kids or taking them and they're they're like teaching them in the bus as they go around the country. It's like they they're they're they're like doing a I'm jealous what people are willing to do, man. Wow. Not what they have. You know, who cares? You know, and at the end of the day, man, like, you know I got these pictures everywhere. This is in my garage. I just grabbed it today, stuck to the back of it. Is that And then right next to it is a guy that got me in a fire service. 78 years old filling air bottles When it was about 89 degrees outside. Well, that day it wasn't because he got his jacket on, but he'd be out there 89 degrees filling bottles. My dad So these are just three of the big individuals, Matt and Egli, Suicide, Maurice dying in a fire.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: My dad dying, you know, of old age, but he did die multiple myeloma that motivate me that I can't let worrying about my popularity keep me from pushing somebody to be a little bit better. And so that goes back to training the most important proby. is I'm more worried about him being in a starting lineup. I'm worried about him being the one that don't need to be rescued. that knows how to transmit a made aid or when somebody calls for help that he knows to go left or when to go right in doing a search. He knows what blade to use And it's gonna take years. Like right now, I'm more I don't care about him getting on the job. He's we're we're we're through the volunteer system at a scam you. And everybody's like asking, you know, when's gonna get the job? I said, I don't give a shit. Hell, I just paid for him. To live in Gainesville and paid for fraternity fees. I paid for everything. I don't give a shit if I gotta pay another year if it allows him to train 80 Four hours a week, right? 90 hours a week. To where he can focus on going to as many fires, as many jobs, ask as many questions, and being exposed to the best of the best in Northwest Florida. You know, I'm scared to death he gets on the job and gets to a firehouse where they sit around and watch fucking TV all day. They don't even read an article a day. They don't do a drill. They don't talk at the coffee table about the job. You got to be training all the time. You got to be drilling, drilling, drilling, drilling. And so we talk about training the most important part of you. I'm going to leave it at this. Is ask yourself If your kid came on a job and they were assigned to your company, your company officer, they were assigned to your company, would that change how you drilled? Would that train would that change if you put an air pack on sometimes as their backup leading them in? Would that change if you had a full tick battery Full charged radio battery, how fast you drove the rig. Would you want them to wear a seatbelt? Would you want them to breathe air?

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Would you want them to wear hearing protection when they're Running assault. Would you want them to wear eye protection when they're running a grinder at the workbench at the firehouse? Ask yourself. Corley: No, that's a great question. Chief Kurt Isaacson: If you were trained in the most important proby Your kid, your company, how would that change what you did when you went on duty at the firehouse? And if you notice almost all my helmet says the truss, if you look under my brim right there just a reminder, man, the trust will kill you. This job, man, it's like it there's just so much to know, man. It's just, it's like I love it when somebody thinks they got it figured out because I don't have it figured out and it's what I do full time. I mean I'm a sick over this shit and I have been since I was a little kid you know, I got my first set of bunker gear on May 21st, 1988, and I never looked back, man. Like I walked off the soccer team. I walked off the varsity soccer team Because the fire service to become more important in soccer and I didn't want to I'd rather be hanging out in the firehouse and going to soccer practice or soccer games It's it's it's what I do. It's who I am, you know? And that's that's just part of it. Like the you know, I and I and I don't think everybody needs to be that way But I think everybody needs to be working to be a little better. You don't know what you don't know till you know. When you know that, you still don't know what the hell you don't know. Right. You know what I mean? Like, you know, all the time we go to jobs and You know, like you you gotta acknowledge when it's a metal roof over a flat roof because it's a rain roof or a membrane over a a decked roof over a flat roof like the apartment building fire we had three years ago. You know the difference between if you're going in and you got tongue and groove or plywood over your head or OSB versus sheetrock you know, all these things matter and then cinder block and who laid the block and you know how how strong is cinder block and how old's the mortar and who mixed the mortar and and the brick and the you know wood frame and you know it's like you know You gotta be thinking, man.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: You just gotta be thinking because I mean like a lot of fires are the same. You can't say they're not like you know kitchen fires, kitchen fire on a one-story porch lab, dimensional shingle, sheet rock But a lot of fires are different. The layout, the conditions, the setbacks, the time of day, the wind condition, you know, and we got to be thinking, man. See, and the problem is in the fire service Too many people got experience themselves to make an impact. All firefighters should be impacted by all bad incidents in a fire service. Father's Day fire New York hardware store. If you have a hardware store, you can go to a hardware store fire and it can blow up. Right? Yes, you're gonna be asking yourself triple decker Worcester collapse guys in the basement they get to him right before he runs out of air you know are you ready to do a transfill? How many watch it right now Right now listen to me. I'm banned I'm dripping sweat and I got AC on 66. Not supposed to fit your teeth or I got thing in there. But start shooting on this toothpick. They don't even make them out of wood anymore, made out of plastic. Listen How many of you you yourself and or your company Have taken an air pack, breathed it down to the bell's ringing, blindfolded, hood on backwards with real fire gloves And taking a rip pack and trans-filled yourself. Wouldn't that be some fucking shit, man? You're on a RIP team, a fast team, deploying into a building fire to save a brother or sister firefighter. And you get jammed up and you're running low on air and you're carrying a rip pack with 4,500 psi compressed air And you couldn't even give yourself air. And then if you could, you didn't really understand the whole concept of how it equalizes. 4,500 is 2250. And so now if I equalize it, let's just say I was a zero for easy math, and then I give it to my partner, now 2250 is 1125. Then the third person is going to be 575 That's simple math. See if you do that in the whiteboard at the coffee table and you talk about it and you go out in the truck bay and you put all your gear on turn your hood on back you're gonna find out I I've seen it First time we did it was about 10 years ago in a white two-story acquired structure.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Dude, nobody was great at it the first time. People are scared and can't push it in hard enough. It's almost like they're about to break it off. It's harder than you think it is. Now once you get it down and you've done it about three or four times, man, it's bam, bam, bam, it's clockwork. You don't want it to be the first time when a bell's ringing Smoke bank down on you. Hearing that fire crackling, hearing all that noise No, that stress gonna make it even harder. So you gotta be thinking about this stuff, you know. So train a most warm proby I'm gonna make sure Trevor knows how to transfilm. Because if you can't save yourself, how the fuck are you supposed to expect somebody else to save? You don't know how to transmit a Mayday You don't know how to activate your pass device? You don't know how to do a transfill? You know how to tie the hand cut knoff or bailout or rope slide or you know head first or how to use a hoseline Boom. Evade and trench. All these things matter it because At the end of the day, we gotta stay aggressive. That's gotta be the default mode. We gotta stay aggressive because that's the safest way for us to operate. It's tactically be proficient. That's what puts out fires be tactically strong, tactically proficient, and then back it up with a strategic plan by command officers that know when we need more resources, how to divide and you know use your resources properly sometimes having companies multitask but don't have multitasking you don't have to Other night of fire years ago when we just had 319 and and lighter 12, we'd been there five hours from when engine one and myself got there till the last person left, two hours and 25 minutes That's two hours more the brothers got to go back to the farmhouse and get sleep for the rest of their 48-hour shift. All that hose on the ground, I mean I don't know what like six attack lines we had you know i thought we had fire in three units smoke was pushing from five units heavy fire in the rear So we had a couple thousand feet of hose on the ground. Shit, we had enough people like one section per person.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Now nobody's back hurting. Nobody's done two or three bottles. You're not dehydrated. So guess what? Now we get a fire the next day. We're gonna be more proficient. Right? That's why they give you rest time between the playoffs and the Super Bowl. They don't fucking play the playoffs and say come back tomorrow. We're gonna make you play the Super Bowl tomorrow. Shit, they give you two weeks to rehab. Corley: Chief, I have got so many freaking timestamps already, and that's a big reason why I try not to step on your timestamps When you're on a roll, I really don't want to cut in and have to make something I have to edit out because I love making sound bites when Chief Ike is on a roll. And someone said it on here. This whole scrap should be a t-shirt. They've already said a whole bunch of them should be t-shirts Hey, real quick, Jason Gregory was the first one to say Ray McCormick. Yes, no, maybe so? Nope, that's not it. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Man, I gotta go back and look. I knew it was gonna be good, man. See, see Most people watching they weren't even on the job 25 years ago. Right. The next one I'm gonna give them a nugget One of the best firefighters to ever fight fire with a nozzle. One of the best engine bosses in the largest fire department in North America. He's on the live burn team in the late 90s at FDIC. He's on the CFT team too.

Corley: Well I got Christian. Chief Kurt Isaacson: I'm saying the first person that said Timmy Clint was Oh hey, I do not and Trevor's listening I already know no matter how much Trevor busts his ass, he's already got a fucking target on his back. Oh yeah, he does He's got a target. People gonna be intimidated because of his physical attributes, his intelligence, his discipline, his work ethic And he says yes, sir, no, sir, a thousand fucking times a day. People don't like that shit. I got guys on my job asking me, like, like, what's the deal? Is this a conspiracy? Like, what's going on? Are y'all trying to take over the fucking fire department? I'm like, oh dude, he's supposed to be a fireman. Like my dad, like like we're the Isaacsons. We love the fire service. We run fire conferences Like he says he has a bunch of uncles that he likes and he's referring to you know people from the CFT team. But that's how it works, man. People sometimes, and this isn't just about the fire service People sometimes don't like people and they don't even fucking know why they don't like them. And what it really comes down to is jealousy And they don't even know they're jealous. They literally it's not a conscious. There's it's subconscious. They don't even know it. And I've said this for 20 years. Why does the Fucker walk the street in Miami Beach, South Beach, and Kiki a Labborgini and they don't know who owns it because they can't fucking have Laborini Now, if it was your girlfriend and she cheated on you, you got a fucking reason, right? There's a motive there. But it's like when somebody keys something or defaces something And they don't even know the who like it's just because they can't have it. It's like when somebody says, oh, it must be nice. I mean, well fuck, get off your ass and go earn it. You know what I mean? Like It's just amazing. Stop worrying about what somebody else has, doesn't have. Like you worry about getting it for yourself.

Corley: Beautiful. I'm gonna try. I'm gonna try. There's a lot of guesses coming in, so I'm gonna keep throwing at you in order. Oh hey! Hey! We gotta give the giveaway Chief Kurt Isaacson: And it's over when this crap's over. Okay. It's posted on countyfire tactics. com. This ain't no bullshit. This is hands down the biggest deal we've ever done. We used to have the CFT 100 for like five conferences or four. Nine fire conferences, nine conferences. August water on the fire, TADIC Sput Out Fires, Pensacola Beach Fire Conference, CFT ODP, COBC, like nine fire conferences, $950. That's like a hundred and five dollars a conference includes the ODP Literally three of them are five days long. It comes out to be, I don't know, what is like 20 bucks like 10 bucks a day or yeah, something crazy. It's stupid. It is like it's the craziest shit, but it's gotta be there in a scrap because You fucking love the job. You're into the job. And once again, it's not for fire departments. It's for those people paying. Now, if they buy this CFT gold membership, whatever you, whoever's name it goes on If you can't go, the person has to come, they just check in as your name. Because it's so cheap, Jessica can't be changing all these names. So every conference There'll be a badge for John Doe. If you buy it as a mentorship or you send Suzy, Susie gets there, they got to pick up John Doe's name tag. We'll give him a write-in card and They're good to go.

Corley: If I buy it, they're gonna be able to get it. Chief Kurt Isaacson: That thing's gonna sell out tonight. And I don't give a shit. You can split the cost with three other people. I don't care But whoever's name on there, whoever's email, they're getting email, the badges there. Nine conferences include Water to Fire, COBC, Shit Man, all the seminars that I'm teaching. It's four times three is twelve. 15 is 27 plus 3. It's I think it's 33 days of training. That's right. Now the other one that's a little chamber is called the CFT Mentor. We did it there in BCBC. It's all four of my three-day conferences that we're doing at the brand new Fairfield Inn that has that awesome Lazy River And that's 275 for all four. That's 12 days of training. Four three-day conferences, 275. Like That's less than $75. Four times $75 is $300, right? Yeah, that's right. It's math. It's less than that. It's less than $70. It's $25 a day. Corley: So if they want to get that, they need to go there. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Real quick. Oh, oh, I gotta tell you this though. Stand by. This is important shit. Yes. We couldn't do it though for one for like Elkhart Brass. Key host, thanks, Joey Hayes and M. Columbia Southern, Brandon Gunnett, Fire Station Furniture Man. I got the chair here. He's a big supporter, Morning Pride, and ID Fire Tags. We're able to do this stuff because they're helping us offset the stupid crazy cost of coffee in the multimedia And so it's huge, man. But when the scrap's over tonight, the deal's over. So get it, split it with somebody. We don't care what you do, but whoever's name is gonna get it. So moving on past that

Corley: Eddie J, I'm sorry. You were told there would be no math. There is math. This is the scrap. You never know what's coming at you. I'm still gonna try and get who got the right answer, Chief. John Salka Chief Kurt Isaacson: No, he hey he worked on 88 engine in the 18th battalion under John Soccles as chief first due to the Bronx Zoo Corley: First that Tim Clett was another guest. That's it. Tim Clett. Okay, okay. Then it is. That's Tim Clett right now. Jason Gray. I wouldn't have recognized him He he w he was I thought I had Jason I had Jason I sure still fucking hope Kyle Rama just knew who it was Chief Kurt Isaacson: Okay. Yeah, Tim's a little older now Corley: I'm looking, I'm looking, I'm looking. Chris Jacoby, first one to say Tim Clett. Boom. All right. Verified. There you go. Timmy Clett. Tim Clett. It's Tim Clitt. I didn't know, man. That's awesome. Okay. And Sam's talking in my ear telling me who got it right. Chris Jacoby. Chris Jacoby was the first one to say, yeah, Jason Gregory, you said it later. Okay. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Hey, so he he just needs to email me at cftactics at gmail.

Corley: com There you go. CFTactics at gmail. com. Yeah, Kyle Romagan said I did. I knew it was Tim Clint. He did. He was he wasn't he wasn't he's part of the CFT team He's not taking. Okay, Chief, I got questions coming out my ears from the audience. I'm gonna throw one at you, okay? Hold on, I had one I wanted to ask you earlier. I'm looking I'm going through a lot right here holy smokes, there's a lot of questions coming at you. But I wanted to stay on the most important probe here because this one is right in there. Man, I'm looking for it. All right, here it is. Jody Keeler wanted to ask this question. I love this question. How does Chief Balance raising successful kids, a wife, and putting on four, and I'd say four plus or more conferences a year. What advice does he have for people raising a family and trying to get better at the same time? Chief Kurt Isaacson: Well don't do what I did. Be home more. I mean I did try to make sure I was at the soccer games and sports, but you know me like everybody's gotta do them. You know, I like you know you know everybody's childhood experiences make them do different things. In fact, I didn't even realize I hadn't shared it with Jessica until recently My mom worked at Herlbert Air Force Base at Eglin Air Force Base. She was last stationed at the AFSOC headquarters my dad worked a lot of hours. So when I was a kid, I got off the bus and Miss Nail was at my house. I was a last kid kid sometimes. Right. And so I always said that if I had kids, I I wanted their mom to be home When they got home and when Jessica and I went to engaged encounters with the Catholic Church before we got married, one of the things was is that she would stay home to raise them, you know, make sure they're doing their homework, see what's going on, go to the school, the PTA. So, you know, the amount of of involvement Jess knew what they were doing all the time. She still has them all on line 360. I'm not on light 360. I don't see what they're doing I tried it one day, I didn't make it 12 hours, and I saw where Catherine was, and I just said, I don't need this shit.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: This is too stressful for me. But At the end of the day, you know, you know, I would say one of the parents, you know, is is needs to be very in tune to what the kids are doing, what's happening, who they're hanging out with, who they're talking to you know, I just think it's crazy when parents don't have the phone number to their kids' best friends' parents. Like that just blows my mind. The amount of parents phone numbers that are on my phone is unbelievable, man. Like I I if I need to text, I mean I don't call them or text them, but if I could you know, I'll tell my kids, well, I need so-and-so's dad to call me or text me before you go, you know, like whatever it is. So just being involved, you know, and and I and I was home sometimes more than I give myself credit, you know. a lot of times I would get off duty, come home, I'd see them, I'd go, you know, I was a contract training officer when they were younger for six years down and South Walton, Oklaosa Island, Death in that area. So I was home, you know, my days off at nighttime for dinner. I went to the soccer practices I coach some. But Jessica did 90% of the raising of you know stay on top of their grades, the academics, all of that. And then they get credit, man. Like, you know, obviously Just to give them a lot of direction and guidance. But you know, some people can be the best parents in the world, man. They can do everything. They could just like be perfect And you know, you know, I I grew up in a church, so I'm a Christian that I think, you know, I should still be able to say that meeting in this country while I'm a Christian I think God just gives different people, you know, different things in life. and some people have a little bit more of a challenge or work. so, you know, on top of it, I do think we are blessed with three kids that you know, were healthy and you know, academics wasn't really challenging for them. But you still gotta tell them to do their homework. I mean, you gotta give them rules that they can't be on the Nintendo or the Atari for you know eight nine hours every night.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: I don't know if you caught onto that Nintendo Atari thing, but anyways so you you gotta manage that stuff. it you gotta push the envelope You gotta raise that bar and you just gotta keep pushing and pushing it. always giving them little tippets, nuggets, advice. and it's gotta be throughout their whole life You know, just like little things when they were little. If we went to eat dinner, I was like, all right, we'd be in the car like, you know, that dinner cost this. You know If you think 20 bucks an hour is good, well let's divide that meal by 20 bucks an hour. You know, if it was like a big meal, like Christmas or something, it was expensive. Let's just say we're to the Grand Marlin on Pensacola Beach Well, I'm just gonna make up a number. $400, right? So now $400 divided by $20, shit, man, you gotta work all week to pay for dinner. Yeah. And so little things like that just to, you know, so they weren't blindfolded about life and you know the cost of a car and a house and you know, rent and what you have to do to be successful and you know all those things and like interest rates and all that so I think it's just you know it's just like training a canine man And you know, we we we underestimate the potential of what a canine can do sometimes is just you know, kids will surprise you, push 'em Encourage them. But don't give them too many trophies, you know, like about how you do it. But I think if I had to give you one key factor, it would be Jessica being home with them their entire upbringing Absolutely, unequivocally. Mom being there a hundred percent of the time to be focused on them without a doubt. So with that, I had to go to work.

Corley: Boom. HDF 561 wants to know. I'm curious how Chief Ike is handling his son joining the fire service. I'm second generation and love the job, but I struggle with my kids showing interest and wanting to be a fireman. Chief Kurt Isaacson: well, here's the deal. I think it's fucking crazy, disrespectful, and disgusting when somebody works on a fire department and they're going to do a full career, collect a pension from the taxpayers, and they wouldn't be proud if their kid got on the job. I hear firefighters say, I never want my kid to be a fucking firefighter. This job sucks. Got it. I and it's like they don't even know how good they got it. Right? And you know, I said it at one of the conferences, Corley. I about I don't know half a dozen meal camp means said man Trevor's too smart to be a fireman. I said what do we want fucking stupid firemen? Like like that's the stupidest thing I ever heard. We need smart fire rates. Like You think fucking John Norman's not a fucking genius? I mean, literally, like Terry Hatton, you know, Rescue One New York, they talked about that guy was like, you know, Chief Morris. I'd like to know what his IQ is. Mike Lombardo's IQ? It's like a brain surgeon. I mean I could go on and on. These people are geniuses. They don't forget anything. They're like an elephant. And so that's what makes the fire service great is when we can get somebody that academically can do advanced stuff, retain You know, and like Brian Brush's book, the damn first print sold out, right?

Corley: Right. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Like we need smart people to be writing books like Brian Brush's book that he just did. you know, like It just it blows my mind like you know that anybody who thinks somebody's too smart to be a firefighter, we need smart firefighters, right? and I don't think like I've never worked with a stupid well you know maybe I have, but All the firefighters I work with are badasses, smart. Even the ones I don't like are smart. Now, they might not have some crazy formal education But they can do anything, they can fix anything. Your common sense is off the chart, man. Like you give them a problem, they're gonna fix it What was that old saying? Put like two ball bearings in a room in a firefighter, they'll break one and lose the other one. Well, you know, that's really not true. They'll fucking multiply them things, right? They'll turn it into four somehow. Like I don't know. Like to me. I I I think firefighters are the smartest people in the world. If I was gonna go to a deserted island, I'm not taking four neurosurgeons with me. I can fucking promise you that. I'm taking four firemen with me. Like seriously, what are you taking? I'm taking firefighters, right? Like so you know, those are things. So man, I'm absolutely my youngest, our youngest son, Lucas He's gonna be a a firefighter too. he's gonna go to UF for four years book business management. And he's going to be a firefighter. And he's going to test and get in the volunteer system as soon as possible. And his ass will probably be driving home every weekend to ride to rig and driving back to Gainesville So I'll be paying for a little extra gas. But I think it's awesome. It's the greatest job in the world. you know, look Trevor wants to test June 24th the application for the FDNY. and we'll see what how it happens. I mean Seven years ago is the last time they tested or 48,000 applicants. But you gotta test. You don't know, you know what I mean, until you try. But if if he did a career to Scambia, I'd love it. I think it's Scambia County Fire Rescue pound for pound is like the FDNY. I think we've done a good job mimicking the FDNY because that's what we did, copied them, which is a positive thing.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: I mean they established some good stuff. we go to a lot of fires. I think we've been averaging a working fire a day. in 2024. I've been going sometimes two fires in a day. I'm thinking this could be the busiest year since we went paid 24 years ago. so you know he he he get to see a lot of stuff. He get to be a real firefighter, not somebody just rides a fir truck. you know, we do a lot of special ops stuff. So I think it's awesome, man You know, it it's it's you know we we sold during the pandemic. You still get a paycheck, you still go to work, they still need us Governor DeSantis has done good for us here through the FPF in the state of Florida. You know, our pension now is 3% multiplier. If you do you can do 33 years, get nine, 99% pension, best out of your two Pew out of your last five best years, you know, overtime counts. It's not like California, our overtime counts on our pension, then do an eight-year drop I mean shit, if you get on a job, I mean if you wanted to, I'm not saying you want to, just calm down for you fucking people that are like counting down the days to your retirement Well, for us that want to stay on the job, if you're out on a 22 and you did 40 years till you're 62, I mean shit, you can retire at 100% pension and walk out with about a $1. 5 million check and pay all your shit off

Corley: Mm-hmm. It's hard to knock, brother. There's your answer. Great answer, Chief. I want to ask you this, and this is a very broad question. You can take it whatever direction you want, but I want to ask you this question. I and it's a dangerous question. I say, walk me through your brain. And I know you teach week what? Yeah. You teach weeklong classes on this. So please understand. When you roll up to a fire, I want you to put into words your Rolodex. When you roll up, first do. Okay. Chief Kurt Isaacson: So first and foremost. When I go to work in my head, this ain't no bullshit. And some of my brothers from Scambia are watching, so they can quality assurance. Every time I go to work, I think I'm fucking going to a fire I have brainwashed myself my whole career. When I go to work, I absolutely positively think I'm going to a fire. I get on duty like I'm going to the worst fire in my career I mean, I spend so much time fucking my radio, my batteries, my airplane, like my brain is brainwashed. So right off the gate, I'm already mentally ready. When I go to bed at night, I think I'm going on fire. And you let me go like two shifts without going no fire? And shit, I might just sleep in the cheese buggy just so I'll be 30 seconds quicker getting there and like the other day I said, hey man, we're due for like an apartment fire good job or whatever. And at night we had a converted motel fire you know, I really don't know when it's gonna happen, but I know this, you know, I know for us our frequency and when shit's silent for so long it's a matter of happening. I'm gonna work, I'm going into work tomorrow night And I'll be on duty till Monday morning. So that's 72, 84 hours I'm thinking I'm doing four jobs in them 82 hours, four fires. So I'm mentally gonna go to work ready. So soon as the box comes out And I hear whatever the address or the building. Right off the bat, I'm going in tonight, like type one, two, three, four, five. I'm going in to you know, overall size, complexity, size of the compartmentalization, is there fire-rated doors, one hour, two hours, they have self-closing doors, is it a metal roof?

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Is it a composite roof? Is it a flat roof? is it sheetrock? Is it plaster? Is it tongue and groove? is it hard to get in? Is it hard to get out? you know, if it's an apartment complex, is it day sleepers? Is it night sleepers? You know, I'm thinking of the arrival sequence of on my roster every morning I print five rosters I highlight the officer like that's what matters to me that's who I'm talking to they dictate the company dictate the the tempo if the officer don't want to go in the company ain't going in if the officer wants to go in the company's going in right and then I want to know like so when I'm going to the fire my brain One of my most important things, if I'm not going to be first, I want to know who the first do company officers. When I'm driving there, if I have five minutes to get there, like the other night, I had a very mature Very experienced lieutenant that was gonna be first in and I ended up catching him, so I got in there with him at the same time. And I know he's aggressive, but he's not stupid. See, you can be aggressive and stupid Right. What I want you to do is be aggressive and smart. And actually when we got there, I said over the radio, I called him and I said, take an extra 30 seconds. I said this on the tack channel, tack three Battalion 2 engine 1 hey loot take an extra 30 seconds to size this up. This ain't a private dwelling. This ain't a mobile home. This is a converted 1962 motel that I was pretty confident had a flat roof at one time and now it's got a metal roof over it. And you probably saw a picture on Facebook. Smoke's pushing from like four or five, you know, glow in the back. There's add-ons. And it there was 11 people that admitted they lived there, but 17 lived there. I had five people walking out of this place So right off the bat, you know what I'm thinking? I'm thinking back to that conversation with Chief Leib that night, a couple months after his fire at twin parks. And I'm like, if I had five people pulled out of this motel unconscious, how many firefighters does it take to do CPR on five Unconscious event.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: At least ten. At least pumping and somebody's blowing, right? But we send eight to a nursing home to work on a clerk. So I got 10 people just to work on five. See, but if you ain't fucking been to a fire with five people drug out of a building, you ain't even thinking about that staffing. But see, I'm thinking about that staff I'm thinking about when the first dude, second do, third dude company get in there and they're 14 minutes inside. The air's getting low and they get jammed up How many people and how much time do I have to get to them and get them out? so I'm thinking about how we getting in, how we getting out, what's the smoke doing, how's the fire travel based on interior you know is it paneling or sheetrock is it single pane or thermal pane what's the window of opportunity will it self-fent will it not sell if it self-vents early notification a neighbor sees it if it don't vent it might become oxygen limited Radiation feedback is going to be a little higher. What's the height of the ceiling? you know, just like the old video from 1988, Vincent Dunn's lower ceiling, boom, it radiate back. It's just like a smaller cool, the ice is gonna last longer. When I'm responding, I in my head I want to have what's on the box alarm. So I got five companies, everybody's at four, that's 20. I got two battalion chiefs, I'm at 22. I got a safety officer at 23 So now I got 23 people. If I got 23 people, I go to Chief Clark's book and it's 50 gallons per person. It's 23 times 50 is my GPM fire attack So now we're going to build what's my length times width divided by three. That's my fire flow based on just a rough number under the NFA. So All that shit, like I'm telling you now, but it's in my head and I'm not even thinking about it. It's like it's on like when a fire's over, if I sat on the tailgate command on a fire, I'd be exhausted My brain is literally going a hundred miles an hour. The other night I'm thinking about the fact that it's center blocked. So they can't breach to self-rescue themselves. Windows are a little higher in the rear usually.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Some of them don't have rear door, one way in, one way out. Hoarding conditions, tongue and groove, metal roof, awning windows, right? I mean the ones that come like this, them bitches are dangerous. Like to try to get out of one of those if shit's going bad. And then I could look in a parking lot and tell the place, look what look what's outside. That's what's gonna tell you what's inside, right? So those are all like you know factors for me on you know time delayed tactics and you know I I guarantee like I want to know what size line What's the location it needs to go, which is gonna determine the length, which is gonna determine my staffing? Right off the bat, I'm not doing shit And show up, make sure that the line's the right size, right location, right length, right stamina. You're fucking right! I'm gonna micromanage it If your dumb ass has got a three-person engine company trying to take a 200-foot preconnect to the second floor of a Charlie Delta fucking bedroom fire with a return staircase from the Charlie to the Alpha and you don't fucking ask for another company to back you up because you think it's promotional package like engine ones attack engine twos backup truck ones vent truck two's search you're just fucking regurgitating some bullshit out of a textbook I don't need nobody throwing a fucking ladder to the second floor because you ain't gonna get to the second floor because you ain't got somebody at the front door, somebody at the bottom of the stairs, somebody at the top of the stairs And here's the deal, you know what micromanagement is? It's when I get on the fucking roof and I hold the saw and I run the motherfucker for you. But when I tell you to get on the roof and I say, cut it on the charity side of the peak. That's because I assume you're probably not thinking that the wind's blowing 20 miles an hour to ASAT. If I don't say shit and I say up in the roof and i turn around and i do another and then i look at their fucking cutting on the alpha side of the peak we're gonna burn that motherfucker down and say well chief i didn't think about the wind No, but if I tell you cut the roof on the charty side of the peak, I ain't getting on a roof.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: You still get to crank it. You're probably gonna drop start it and pull the fucking cord out, even though I told you to put the bitch on the ground, short choke it. Here's the deal. When I give you a nugget over the radio, not micromanaging. Orchestrating it. Conducting. I'm not blowing. I'm not beating. I'm just keeping us all together. Because you ain't the only fucker in the band Everybody's tune is gotta match the music. And I'm the one that's writing the music. So play my music the way I want you to play my music. And when it's over, we can all be proud. And I'm going to be proud because you kicked ass running that 32th K-12 on a complicated roof. You searched hoarding conditions, got it all clear. You were able to push in and put out four rooms of fire off the booster tank. So I'm doing nothing But trying to set you up for success. Because if we fail, I fail. If we succeed, you succeed. So I don't want to go to a fire. Asked the question on Facebook the other day. What does commanding fire ground command mean to you? If you're the fire ground commander, you go to a fire and you just say I'm on Steam, I'm A Street Command And you get there first and the engine pulls up, they park where they want, they stretch what they want, they go with whatever door they want. Next week comes in and They just search if they want or they vent if they want. Or what if the SOGC assignments don't line up because the converted dwelling is a 30 mile an hour wind? It's fucking pouring down rain We got reserve apparatus. We don't have Rams on a rig. The latter company's out of service. The chief's got to know when to use timeouts. Gotta know when to time out, timeout, right? Gotta know when to punt, when to return, when to go with it, when it's forcing along.

Corley: Love it, man. Chief Kurt Isaacson: So when I go to a fire I'm probably thinking about more than the 23 people on the box alarm together are thinking. It's not because I'm smarter than them. It's because I came to work wanting to go to that fire I came to work wanting that to not be a Sanger Theater show. I wanted to be Broadway near Rescue One in New York City and Lower Manhattan I want every fire to be a Broadway show. I like playing G. I. Joe and Barbie dolls. If it got the fucking aircraft carrier You know I'm talking about familiarity old. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Everybody had a friend that had one. Oh yeah. George Falls had the aircraft carrier, my friend. George If a dude's got the fucking aircraft carrier, get the fucking aircraft carrier. Let's get it all out, man. Don't save shit for a rainy day. Lay in, lay out, stretch, just to stretch Hey, just one for the bonus, man. Just one for the bonus, right? If if a six pack's good, why not take a 12 pack? I mean, really, you know what I'm saying? So You really don't want to know what's going on in my brain. Like, you know, my brain is thinking about a gazillion things. I'm thinking about wind direction, flow pass, building construction. tactical sequence of when the attack gets in and when the smoke's gonna get humid based on when the truck gets in to search based on when the second line might not back them up because it needs to go to the rear in case there's hoarding conditions, a backup line ain't gonna make a difference. They're gonna fucking have to shoot it through the windows to buy in time to get over the pile of shit to get to the fire I'm thinking about how long they've been in there. So if the Mayday happens, my brain's already. Rules of Air Management. The Rolling Book by the Seattle guys, right? Oh shit, man. Them guys, their bell's not ringing, but I got a timestamp. And all those things are going through my head. And I focus strictly on the firefighters operating in the IBLAs. Who's inside? Who's on the roof I'm not worried about people out in the street and a bystanders could tell me if they fall over and something happens to them.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: I'm worried about people wearing air packs, breathing air, operating in the I del H in the building. And and I don't always say, hey, XYZ companies writ or fast. I don't necessarily want a fire ground designate writ, but in my brain Like the other night, the staffing, like when I transmitted a third alarm, so I did it all hands, which means every company I immediately had something I needed to do. If right when you get there, every company on the box as an assignment before they even get there You're already fucking behind the eight ball. Time, distance, travel. Those five companies on a map. Now the next five companies are out here. And the third alarm's out here. So you better get them coming. Don't wait to then wait longer, right? And here's the deal. If these five companies come to a fire, that's five vacant firehouses. At least they're moving up now. If the dispatcher goes engine 45 station move up, relocation for coverage. At 3 o'clock in the morning. Let's get up. Let's take a shit. Let's take a piss. Let's get a peanut butter and jelly. But entry 45, third alarm and transmitted at. 1714 North A Street. Bam! Out the door. Fucking hollow ass. Right when they pull up, ah, we can cancel the third alarm. Go relocate You just got the fastest fucking station relocation assignment in the fucking history of the fire service. Dude, you want to get a guy relocating at three o'clock in the morning, fucking transmit a second alarm, a third alarm. You don't need him. Then they they're on the fucking road moving. They're 90 seconds quicker already because they don't have to get up, put their shit on. The rig's rolling And you don't have to damn be a genius to figure that shit out. And like Jay Camella's dad used to say in Oakland. The Chiefs command the fire shouldn't be worried about the what-if call. They need to be worried about the fire that's going on right now. Right now, that's my football game Right now, not the one next week. I gotta win this game, or I'm not playing next week. We're the playoffs. Let's win this game. We win this game, then we'll figure out the next day.

Corley: Oh go ahead. Chief Kurt Isaacson: All hands. All hands pick up. It's a hell of a lot easier when you got a lot of people. Now your exposure time is reduced. Because the ability to put this shit up. And I'm gonna tell you, these fucking union firefighters in this country, they'll bitch When they're, oh, they didn't call this company. They didn't call this, you know, they should have called this if they're on duty because they wanted to go to the fire. Here's how it works. Firefighters that aren't on duty. A good job happens in their city or their county. They're off duty. They're at home, a big fire happens. Fucking they called the half the county that fucking chicken shit fire. But if they were on duty And they were the next company up that didn't get to go to the job. Why the fuck didn't they call more people? They're beating our brothers down. They're wearing them out. They're killing their backs We're off we got we got other we're running 20 minimums you're fucking hypocrite you want it goes you're on duty but if you're off duty they call too many people And guess what? This is nationwide. I go all over the country. It's a nationwide deal. Unions created first for safety, second for pay and benefits. Because you fucking gotta be allowed to collect the paycheck, right? If you're a union firefighter, you shouldn't accept your organization not sending enough people to adequately get the job done and have depth on the bench in case some bullshit happens like an Explosion, collapse, may they lost caught disorient. And if you're adding firehouses and you're adding dual company houses And you're adding staffing. Stop fucking fighting fires like you did with one-third of staffing 10 years ago. It ain't 2010. It's 20 24 LEDs. That's what we use now. LEDs. Get with the times.

Corley: Hold on, let me timestamp. Then I got questions coming at you. Chief Kurt Isaacson: What you need to worry about is what color is the trash can Corley: Hold on, we'll get to the track. I want to get you Josh Everett's question because he's asking questions because right now this is right in because people are saying if you love this scrap You got to go to a command battalion G boot camp. You gotta go to COBC. That's what they're saying. So Josh had a question for you. I think I wrote it down here. Maybe it's in my notes over here Josh Everett said, what are your plans with CFT? You said that this was the last COBC, and I'm glad to have passes for the next. let me see what else here. Hold on. Sorry. I know you have talked about slowing it down and and but really want to do that. I just kicked them in. Chief Kurt Isaacson: We're going fucking wide open now. I got two kids that go the fire service. I'm fucked. That's what I am. I'm fucked now. I'm gonna be on Adderall 24-7 until they're ready to ride the rig under the most incompetent Fucking suicide fucking kamikaze fucking idiot that wants to fucking burn helmets up so my kids know better when they working riding back step with them fucking idiots

Corley: yeah, I love it. I absolutely love it with all the that's what shit changed. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Yeah. Just like that. Last October, son says I'm gonna be a firefighter. Three weeks later, I'm in Dr. Reese's office with my youngest And Dr. Reese has been seeing him since he was born. So Lucas, I've been asking this for years. You're graduating high school. What are you gonna do? I'm going to UF business management, we'll run a business, and I'm gonna be a firefighter My fucking jaw dropped. What? Where does shadet come from? So guess what? Tactical deviation. I have pivoted. Nine conferences. Between now and in the next year, $950. So what am I doing? I'm trying to provide the lowest cost training for anybody else that's trying to fucking train the most important proby Oh there you go. Mike Lombardo, Mike Lombardo's gonna open up ODP this year. Corley: Oh Wow. That's awesome. Also, Mike Lombardo's coming back on the scrap. One of my favorite people to have on the scrap. November, we we planned it for November 5th, and he actually called me and said, Corley, November 5th is election night. We can't have a scrap on election night So we're doing it November 3rd to warm up for election night. So just so everybody knows.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: But well, I'll tell you this, Mike Lombardo, unequivocally, positively in the top five biggest influences of my career. Corley: Brother. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Top five. Unbelievable man. Just that guy is a genius. I mean, if you haven't watched his scrap or listened to him speak or talk, the guy's a genius. I like I think if he reads it one time, he never forgets it Corley: No. Chief Kurt Isaacson: And phenomenal speaker. The guy was just, he's just he's he's just marvelous. I mean just and a gentleman too. But so you gotta go if you haven't watched this crap, go back. And, you know, I was fortunate to be mentored. You know, he's ridden with me to a shitload of fires, given me a lot of direction. and You know, so when you have like what I when I go to a fire, like I do what all my mentors taught me to do, you know. and you know I don't know shit, man. In the 90s, I did a bunch of buffing all over the country cities and you know, and then obviously I've done buffing in New York and Buffalo, East Storms, Newark, Chicago. Miami Dave and you know those things are critical that also drive the way my brain thinks because you just got to be fast, man. Time compressed decision making Dr. Klein, Sources of Power, the Book of the Chess piece. Like, you know, you can have the answers, but you gotta have them right now. And you gotta have seven of them at the exact same time And you got to be able to have those seven. And then when a fire's over right then, you might not even be able to tell somebody why you did it. Later that night or the next day, you'll be able to tell them because your brain knew it. You didn't even know it.

Corley: Start catching up. Start catching up. Yeah. I love it, man. Matt Musicant wrapped it up. He said Chief Lombardo's mustache should get its own scrap. And that really does kind of and cut it off to donate money. Chief Kurt Isaacson: He one of our conferences years and years ago, he helped with The first ODP stayed at my house and it was one day a week for 10 weeks, but he cut it he raised over a thousand dollars for us at one of our conferences years ago and shaved it off. at the at the bar on Pensacola Beach. That's pretty cool. Corley: Kyle said it best. He said Mike Lombardo has been to more fires on Tuesday morning than the entire chat room has been to in their entire career. Oh yeah I love it. Absolutely love it. Okay. One thing that Josh wanted to ask, and I really like this question. He says you're doing a lot of battalion chief boot camps and they're very successful. He's coming back to come to another one. But He loves them. Hey, I want to talk about county fire tactics, the book, and also do you ever have plans to make battalion chief boot camp into a book?

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Yes, well, that'll kind of be so like here's one right here. So The battle it's October sold out. We still have a few spots and the one that's has spots in February is 550. The other ones were 850 and 970. it's at the Hilton And so we eliminated the breakfast and lunch and and and that so people like you know they don't have to front as much money. But you just sit and listen. You come in on Sunday night You have to arrive Sunday afternoon. Sunday night, you're doing 200 question tests. We're talking to you. So we start like bam on Monday morning and we go till about 5. 30 or so every day. We never get out before 520. We go till 530 The positive is our breaks are on the money. Exactly. We go 8 to 9. 30. 9. 30 to 10, you get a 30-minute break. Then you attend to 1130. So it's 90 minutes, 30-minute break, 90 minutes, two-hour lunch break, and that way you can literally eat And then go take an hour nap, get up, drink some coffee, and be wide open. That's what makes the week go by so quick. In the afternoon, we go 90 minutes, 30-minute break, and then we go about two hours for the last session And then you're right there, you eat. You don't have to travel nowhere. The lunch, you know, is right there. So you know, it's it's it's 20 90 minute sessions or really it's 15 90 minute sessions, five two hour sessions, and then Friday night We go to about 6 or 6. 30. You do a two-hour into conference party. You come back and we give your certificate and plaque at 9 o'clock p. m. We let you out by 9, 10 p. m. and then everybody leaves out the next morning. so you come in Sunday, you leave Saturday morning, the group bonds. I teach the whole thing and I just go 90 miles an hour and at the end of the country we we send you home. This one's like I think 83 pages But the first three, Kyle Ramagus and Scott Sl Slocum independent of each other were just typing as fast as they can notes. They'd meet at night. And so this is really the start of the book. You get at the Kyle can could tell us but I think Kyle's got like I don't know shit a hundred hours of election over the years from different conferences but Tang Shibu Kemp so that's gonna be the book I'm not sure that I'm going to write a battalion cheap book.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: This is it. But really what this is is the start of the County Fire Tactics textbook that, you know, is definitely going to come out. That's what my textbook is going to be. County Fire Tactics. How to fight fires in a diverse environment where you're going from high rises in one part of the county to barns in the other, you know, an engine company operating by itself for 20 minutes to you know putting 27 people on the fire ground in eight minutes you know that's you know we're diverse ladder 12 if i have a fire at the spur you know it's about a mile from station 12 and i'm 17 16 11 12 Navy fire all getting almost the exact same time. You have five companies pulling up to what we call the spurt at the same time. In the north, then we got engine four man, John Wayne time. They're going north by themselves And so that's what county fire tactics is going to be is you know understanding when to lay in, when to lay out, reverse, forward, when to boost or backup, when do you hit it with a tanker, you know, when do you shut the nozzle down and don't flow even though the fire's still burning because you need to burn some of your fuel packages down to maximize the gpm available for the btm based on a fire load capability on a square footage. and building construction. So you know I I've been lucky, fortunate, spoiled to get hired by a phenomenal fire department that's been growing for 24 years. So for you know when I started I was a battalion chief I had 319 four people me that was it Like we went to fire sometimes and nobody else came. Right. And then got a second company. Right. And then a year later got another company and then two years later got enough so over the last 21 years i've been calling myself my call sign's been battalion two for 21 years It has been like my growth has been amazing and it really scares the shit out of me because I'm still learning shit all the time. And my opinion's changing. Like what I think, what I do, you know, like, you know, I think there's a time to stay in a car. There's a time to be in the back of the car, it's a time to be in the front yard.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: I got two videos cameras that were going at the same time of the fire about three weeks ago. And you know what one video's perspective showed in the back of my vehicle is totally different what the video looking the front of the house did you know chief walker from oklahoma city about 15 plus years ago did a class at fdic chief walker did where he had helmet cam from inside And he's outside and what he sees is different than what the boss is seeing inside. And having that you know perspective of what's going on is It's been just eye-opening and you know I I would love man you know God willing I'd like to do 15 more years as battalion too. I'd like to do 36 years Battalion 2, Scambia County Fire Rescue. I think if I could do 15 more, I think 36 years of Battalion 2, I might have figured out how to be a battalion chief. Corley: Can I come and do some write-outs? You can. Okay. I wanted to get it on record that you said yes. No, I want to ask you this real quick because this is on topic. it's very, very relevant right now. And that is the Mayday or no not Mayday. I'm sorry, let me find the question here. Man, I lost it. scrolling, scrolling, I'm scrolling Thoughts on the data, not drama article that just came out referencing OSHA's two-in-to-out. basically Scott Thompson, Bill Carey, Nick Ladin, Chris Thompson, and I'm forgetting somebody there. Please. Sean Duffy. Yeah. Those guys wrote that article on the two in two out being reevaluated. You have thoughts on it? Have you read it?

Chief Kurt Isaacson: I haven't read it. but I'm familiar I'm familiar with the article. Right. And I printed 12 copies of the United States Fire Administration thing years ago. I brought it to a staff meeting and binders to give to the other chiefs Years ago. And I've been talking about it for shit 10 years. Most people don't know the difference between IRIT and writ under the United States Fire Administration. IWrit is the initial rapid intervention team, two people, OSHA, two in, two out, until the box alarm assignment arrives, which is based on your authority having jurisdiction, so whatever your department decides it is, and then you're technically supposed to have a four-person writ team. So I've always gone with what, you know, like Andy Fredericks said, man, two out ain't saving two in. just put the fire out and we'll all be okay You know, you go back to, you know, the Phoenix study with Brett Tarver 12 to get one and all that other stuff. You know, I absolutely think That when a four-person engine company pulls up on a private dwelling with a potential of somebody being inside, that three of them four need to be like pushing the IDLH. Nozzle back up, you know, the door firefighter, whether they're at the door, in at the bottom of the stairs, whatever it is. So Like, you know, I've always thought it was absurd when a fire department pulls up in the first company is established in a writ team before shit anybody's even doing anything You know what I mean? like I don't put my life jacket on when I get on a boat. Now, if I'm coming back and I'm running into red radar and shit's getting nasty, I put my life jacket on, right? Right So absolutely the fire service is going in the right direction. But I knew it was going to go in the right direction I just told Ray when we were down in Costa Rica last year. I was like, Ray, remember on the phone when I said, like, I don't know, over 10 years ago, I said, Ray, man, we're gonna win. Ray's like, why? Why? I said, because What we're doing is for the right reason. There's no ulterior motive. This isn't to sell articles or books. We're not trying to sound cool or protecting the fireway. No, we're for here what we're here for, man.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Like we're like, we're like we're thinking like military people. Our job is that we we risk within our capability, staffing, response models, modes, training And you know, I actually under my messenger, I communicated with Bill Carey a long time ago before he even started the data and drama thing about like, you know, I used to say it in classes all the time I can't zero documented people vertically vetting residential buildings in full gear breathing air. The guy in Dallas wasn't breathing air, right? Right. It don't mean it's just not dangerous. People dying on a damn hose line. Death on the nozzle. Black fire, right? So to to you know hopefully I'm answering your question. I absolutely think they need to eliminate the two in, two out. I think we need to just focus on Better tactics. Size up that's relevant to your organization. Not just out of a textbook or textbook Your size up's got to be related to who's coming behind you. Like, I mean, do you have an MLS team or do you have, you know, the Premier League, right? Is this SEC football or what I don't know what y'all call that other shit around the country? I mean, are we playing SEC football or are we playing that other college football, right? Or is this the NFL? So at the end of the day, we we got to make sure organizations are training, sizing up, and deploying based on their organization. Not the FDNY and not a two-station suburban fire department. Now, if somebody asked about my book, I absolutely unequivocally think there's a difference between a county fire department, urban, And suburban or rural. A county fire department is one that goes into rural and suburban areas, but also goes into urban areas with high rises and has county resources. Now it's going to be a county fire rescue. We put five companies, three inches of squad, a ladder, two chiefs, and a safety officer, you know, on duty 24 hours a day without using mutual aid And in some parts of our county, man, we're meeting 1710. So we are totally different than if, you know, you get like in Pastate, New Jersey. Yeah, you know, heavy density, you know, what 100,000 people living in five square miles. So the fire service has got to start focusing on are you rural, suburban, county, or urban, and then build your strategy and tactics.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: based on that and then deployed it. And you know, like if I was building a brand new fire department from scratch, nobody knew anything, no, I wouldn't pick the triple layer load. No. But I can tell you, I'm going to continue to fight for us to keep the triple layer load in Scambia County because that's what we've had for 40 years And our firefighters are awesome with it. They kick ass. I damn up videos on YouTube. I go to fires, they do awesome. They've got thousands and thousands of hours of training. If tomorrow we change to any other load. What does Escambia County have to start doing immediately on all shifts seven days a week? Corley: Yeah, you're a training. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Training on the new load, but those hours now can't be training on tick or writ or search or special operations, right? So we have to think sometimes, yeah, you know, like this new gadget came along, right? It might be better, but if it's only five percent better, do we really spend eight percent of our budget because the other ninety-two percent is paying payroll, right? Right Or is it not enough much better to spend that money, right? Right. Because you're always gonna have shit that's coming out a little better, but we just can't buy something new just because it's a little bit better And you got to think about, you know, your purchases, your, you know, and when we're talking about training, hose loads. I mean, travel the country teaching, going to conferences I see some of the coolest shit, man. There's some smart firefighters out there. And I'm like, man, it's awesome. But I'm not taking that back. back to a scambia 23 station county fire department run they're they're running their asses off medical fires training Like the hours that they would have to invest is not worth the return on top of what other stuff they can't be working on. And that's where you have to kind of like think of the chief officer level in regards to the investment and and the return. So you know, like the the two in two out. Like we gotta ask ourselves, what's the return of two in two out? What we need to do is make sure we're going fire. We're sending enough staffing And that everybody understands the on deck thing.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: And that if a Mayday is transmitted, do you have enough people operating tactically on the fire ground that most likely companies already engage in tactics to suppress the fire are the ones that's going to fix the Mayday. The Rick Company, Fast Company, which hopefully has four trained firefighters, now we're going to be just a reinforcement of that on deck company or they're gonna pick up the slack of the line that was that was left because they want to do this Or maybe they're going to get fans because now the fire's knocked down and we can fire up a bunch of fans, get the smoke out, so now that's going to eliminate the mate because They can stand up and walk out and all of those things. And I think the fire services graduate and go in that direction. But we definitely need more Chief officers to be tactical tactic tacticians. We need more chief officers that were firefighters that give a shit about what kind of lights their firefighters are carrying, what kind of air packs, what kind of stalls, what kind of blades. like Talking don't put out a fire. A portal radio don't put out a fire. You've got to make sure you understand this, and you got to make sure that that music can be read by the people that are that are playing the instruments And all companies aren't created equal. When you're gonna send a company to cut a peak roof, I mean do they know how to do the Buffalo Milwaukee peak roof operation If they don't, you're just checking a box like it's a promotional exam. Don't just talk to talk. And talk. If you're gonna talk, talk so somebody can hear you. Have command presence. Be assertive. Be confident Because that matters on the fire ground. You gotta have a plan. If you don't, somebody's gonna come up with their own plan. And that company's gonna have its own plan. This company's gonna have its own plan. And none of them are coming together. So now you're just gonna have a bunch of damn noise. Like seven different bagpipers that just learned how to play bagpipes last year, they're gonna suck.

Corley: Hold on. I gotta go I got a timestamp All right. Yes, I love it. I've got a couple of questions I want to throw at you before I get to the the the final stuff. Michael Dozier, the company officer, he wants to know, this is a leadership question I'm throwing at you, but I want to get your perspective on it Chief, you got a new company officer to your shift. What expectations do you give them when you meet them on that first tour? Chief Kurt Isaacson: Well, That's the first and foremost, and and Corley, you probably heard me say this in a big room at Hilton. I don't ever complain I I don't ever claim to be a leader, like or a whatever. I don't like I don't teach leadership class Corley: Right. Chief Kurt Isaacson: my I brought the motion I brought this book right here. Like my emotional intelligence is like A one-year-old, right? Like I already tonight already had five like hissy fits on here, right? Corley: You sell yourself short. Chief Kurt Isaacson: I backed off and I definitely lead different. So but in regards to a new company officer, I really don't have to say anything to them. Like, because I mean I've been in my fire department since, you know, it it went paid I was the first training officer for the first four years. I've been battalion 221. If an officer gets assigned to my battalion, they don't know what the fuck I expect. They've been living under a rock. Like they've been living under a rock. Like everybody on my job knows like what I expect, right? I expect you to take a nap any afternoon or rest because the safest firefighter is a well-rested firefighter. I expect you to come to work hydrated, ready to work. I don't care what you do on your days off. But when you're at work, be into the job. you know, you know, be the best. Absolutely. I want you to have some downtime. I want you to take a nap. I want you to eat a fuck. I want, man, breakfast, lunch, and dinner is a priority Breaking bread at the kitchen table is important. Hanging out together is important. I don't like people going to the bunk rooms. You know, we have and I don't know. It's not even a rule. Like, and and a lot of the new people probably don't know this.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: I fucking hate video games in a firehouse. I hate them. I hate them. I hate 'em. I don't think an Xbox should be allowed in an American firehouse I'd rather you go sit in couches in a truck bay and talk to each other. I'd rather use sleep than play XY. Those video games are making you tired. They're wearing your brain down, right? so I would rather you read a book, rather you sleep, whether you make a meal. Hell, I'd rather you damn repaint your barbecue grill that you brought in the back of your pickup truck out back. But you know, that's it. You know, like and most everybody knows like I used to have sixty nine rules of engagements, shall wear air on a car fire, you know, shall stretch an inch and three quarter, officer will back up the nozzle firefighter on an interior attack and You know, those those things have been out there for 20 years. So pretty much everybody knows that. You know, I don't go for waist straps not being buckled. If I'm command the fire I want our true Vulcan whatever. I don't care what brand it is. I want one of these lights down by your waist. That's just gonna find little Johnny and little Susie. Not this little chicken shit light up here, the one on your helmet And if you get jammed up or somebody else gets jammed up, that's the light that's probably going to save you or save them. Because when you fall down on the ground, if that light's on, that's the one that's going to be on the ground at the clearest potential air of no smoke for a fire to you know for somebody to visually you know see you if you will so those you know those are things so I you know I I I don't really have to tell them They they know you know what I mean like stretch lines breathe air I like G. I. Joe and Barbie dolls man You know, you don't want to be in my battalion to go to fires with me if you don't like putting a lot of hose on the ground, throwing ladders. Like I want to get everything out of this. I'm looking for a reason to put more lines on the ground And if you've got a proby on the back of your rig and you're the seventh new rig there, we're gonna probably stretch the seventh line so that that new firefighter He didn't know he don't we we don't really need that line.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: So now they get the shakes out because all they've ever done is stretched out a drill tower So sometimes like I'll have a company do something because it's a brand new firefighter on the back, and I'm trying to give them an opportunity under stress inoculation at a real call that if they fail, it won't matter because by the time it matters, they'll have already done it on. an insignificant incident where we could have done without it and they're getting better at i mean fuck we'll take companies off duty we'll send them to the drill tower But you get a smell of smoke on a third floor of a four-story apartment building and you want to fucking send everybody home Like, why wouldn't you let all the companies come in and see where you would park them because it's 10 o'clock in the morning where all the cars are? But the next day you'll have them at the drill tower Like, just that's a better drill. They call 911. You own that apartment complex. Make the most of it. Get out. Get in a building. Walk around a building Oh, check the hydrant. If you're the company supposed to catch a hydrant, you're fucking sino. Get your fat ass off the rig and flush the plumb. Last shift Smoke in a Burger King, 2 o'clock in the morning, into 17, kicks the plug. Corley was fucking broke Bro, dead hydrant. What if they what if what if they didn't check it right late? Like so they called me said it's broken. We turned it into ECUA and then went down to the next item and checked did it work Next day to Battalion 3, I heard him on the radio. He calls the dispatcher. I heard him. I was sitting in August. Hydrogen was broke last night. The water department's on site right now fixing hydrogen I've had that a half a dozen times in my career. Like, why in the hell would you sit on a plug for five minutes that you might have to catch and during that five minutes not make sure that it's that it's ready?

Corley: No, and I bet you that 95% of the fire service would just sit there and wait to get 99%. Well, I was being generous. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Unless they got a chief that tells them to get their fat ass off the fucking rig and do something Corley: I love the fact that I asked you the leadership question and you qualified it by saying, hey, I'm not a leader. And then you went into a a very articulate version of I'm going to take care of my people and I'm going to make sure they're competent. Which I love. I love it, Chief. I really do, man. Chief Kurt Isaacson: And here's the deal. You know, I love, I mean, I love I love Askamie County Fire Rescue. It, I love it. And guys that work have been here. I love it more now than I ever have in the history. I think we're in the best times in the history of our fire department. I think our projectory is beyond anything I ever dreamed. It is it's unbelievable. marvelous and I'm excited to think two of my kids might work there for a career. It's hands down. We go to more fires than any other fire department, the A50. We have the best fire culture you know, we we don't all want to go to dinner together. That's fine. But I tell you what, the ones I don't want to go to dinner with, they're fucking good at their job. And when I go to a fire, we all come together as a team and we kick ass, right? I mean, not everybody like Michael Jordan, but shit, man, the Chicago Bulls fucking kicked ass in the 90s, right? you know, so at the end of the day, like You know, we have we have awesome firefighters. I'm just telling you, man, like people have asked me this over the years, like that don't know me or in the country. They're like, how often do you go to a fire and you're like embarrassed, you get upset? Never You could ask 30 firefighters on the job how many times they've ever seen me at a fire mad, disappointed, and say they sucked and they screwed this. It just I mean it might have happened early on, but I wasn't mad because we were infants. We were we were learning. Like I mean our lieutenants now, man, some of them have been to so many fires and they've been doing it for 10, 15 20 years.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: I mean, they can do it asleep, standing on their head. Like I don't even need to go to the fire. And I give a lot less direction than I did 10 or 15 years ago because 10 or 15 years ago I was given direction to that person who's still that same person riding in the front right seat. Yeah they got it man they the like they know they they know when to deviate know what to do and so they're phenomenal And the only thing I do say that sucks is when you got a fire department that's good and they're good at what they do and you know you're successful in the fire ground most of the time it keeps you from really meeting your max potential because you're more likely to become lazy. I just said this to a lieutenant the other day and he's a pretty you know phenomenal firefighter and officer And absolutely, he gets the shit done and gets a job. But I was just like, what if you just put in 30 minutes every day? How much better would you be See, when you're good, you're good. But what ends if you're good and you're just living off past investments, right? Right? Like oh yeah You gotta pay every day. Like Tom Brady's man, he flew around the world to go see Ronaldo and see how he works out and what he eats and what he does. Like so The thing that amazed me in a fire service is people will get good at this job and then they just live off of yesterday's good Like, like you don't want to still learn something? I mean, shit, like Bob Morris, man. Like, you know, he's like 75. Guy's still sitting in classes. Bill Gustin' still sitting in classes, writing notes, reading articles, studying. He's It's still getting better. And I see these people that are badass, awesome, kick-ass firefighters, and they're like reading no fire books, no fire articles, doing no fire training, going no fire gun. I'm talking about across the board. I'm not like and so many times guys on my job will watch the scrap and they're so sensitive. It's like they're sitting in the back row and they're talking about molesting kids and they're like thinking Preachers talking to them or something. You know what I mean?

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Like, chill out, dude. I'm not talking about you. I go all over the country. The fire service is pretty much the same everywhere you go. Just change the t-shirt, change the color of the fire truck. And the fire service is awesome. It's awesome. Corley: It is, bro. Chief Kurt Isaacson: But what if we were driven, what if the fire service was driven like sports? Corley: Right. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Like Billy Napier, the coach of the Florida Gators His ass will be fucking fired if he don't do a better job this year and next year, right? Absolutely. See There's like a great. See, we don't get it great. Our fire department, they're not comparing us to next week or last week or another fire department. Corley: Absolutely. Chief Kurt Isaacson: So we never know how good somebody can be We're not making somebody train five days for 90 minutes on the pitch, right? Or nine innings or four quarters, right? So my question is, what is the entire fire service? The entire fire service absolutely did a quality one hour drill. That's it. 24 hour shift, one hour. The other 23 ass clapped Cooked flame might, I don't give a shit. Cooked fish, do what one hour and 24 hours What coffee table sometimes. Sometimes you bring a rip bag in the day room. If it's clean, you only all that decon just, you know, whatever it is. It doesn't always have to be in full gear. One hour Every shift. If you work one on, two off, it's 120 hours a year. What is 120 broken down to into one hour drills? And vocational education, the one hour drill is more powerful than if you did Three weeks at 40 hours a week. So 120 hours in a year, one hour at a time, quality drills is a force multiplier. It's way more than going to class eight to five Monday through Friday for three weeks and 120. The one hour a shift for 120 shifts in a year, you're going to get so much more out of it than just three 40 hour because your brain can only comprehend it, you know, so much. So that's my question. And I'm more relaxed about it now as a whole, but like, you know, I've had people say it before, like They'll just ask me something and I'll go on like a 20-minute talk about it at a fire or whatever and they'll come like Chief how did you know that?

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Well Somebody taught me. I read. I went to a class. I went to a conference. And you know, like all the time. And you know, I did a drill because the lieutenant asked me to come out last shift Three companies met at a large apartment complex that just opened. And so we just went over like sandpipes, elevators, mid-rise, all that stuff And I fucking loved it, man. Like, you know, I I guess I talked for an hour and a half wide ass open. and I loved it. And I and at the end, we had some brand new folks that just got hired and I said, hey I'm never gonna say no. If the officer asks me to come out, I'm gonna come out and drill. But my days, like you know, of 10 or 15 years ago, I used to force myself on companies. I made them drill, drill I teach, teach. I mean, I had a I had a daily read that you had to do. I was and I, you know what, one day I woke up and I just said, man, I'm fucking killing myself. I'm killing myself. I'm force feeding them. But if they want it, I'm gonna give it to them. I try to as much as I can after a fire, maybe talk like two or three nuggets, you know, about what we did. But like the other day, man, I had a blast with those three companies Just getting to go out and and go over a few things. And I thought about it like regardless of who it is. Like I mean, I'm just regurgitating, you know, Gustin and Norman and, you know, McGrail and all those mentors. Yeah, yeah. Stuff and fires that I've been to, obviously, too. But what if we did that every single shift? Somebody did some type of drill like that. What what what would we elevate to, right? Because see the problem is we're not forced, like our jobs out of the line. And we're not trying to win the trophy. We're not trying to win the NBA Finals or the Super Bowl or the World Series, but we ought to be Because people's lives depend on how good we are. How fast can you force the door? How fast can you mask up? How good are you at oriented searching?

Chief Kurt Isaacson: How good are you running the 461 or the cutter's edge or the you know Husker Vana Like all this shit matters. I mean, how good are you throwing a 24-foot ladder? How good are you climbing a ladder with a K-12 on your back? Like what are your sets and reps? Like, I mean how many times have you been? Corley: It's beautiful, bro. It's absolutely absolutely absolutely last one. I'm gonna throw at you from the audience. Last one, and I'm gonna get to I love this one. It's coming from Tellboard Misfits. He wants to know Chief As a leader, you have gained an incredible amount of influence over the years. What is your biggest key to gaining influence? Chief Kurt Isaacson: I wasn't looking for it. I tell you what, I get emotional. And I've told my three kids this a lot. Pressure's privilege. There's a lot of pressure on you. Pressure to perform, pressure to lead, pressure to be emotionally intelligent. It's a privilege because Not everybody has pressure on them. They're lonely. They don't have they don't have a they don't have a why. So I wasn't looking for the pre pressure, but when the pressure started pouring on, I took it as a privilege because I love the job. Somebody would want to listen to me. my father was like a huge influence on me teaching at a young age. He told me if I got on the job and I got hurt I could go in the training division. That's why I want me to fire inspector school because if I got hurt one year on a job, I could go be a fire inspector. And At the end of the day, like on this job, man, if you're teaching, you're learning. See, you're teaching yourself. And I wasn't ever looking for influence. Like I just wanted to be better at a job. I didn't want to be sitting on a bench. Like, you know, people, when I worked in Penn's Cola Fire Department Like people get mad because if Chief Baker was working and I was working, like we they never called second alarms extra companies. But if there was a bad extrication and and and rescue 31 wasn't on it T Baker had a rescue 31 because George Foss and I were on there. He's a paramedic. I was a geek for extrication all through the 90s because of some bad wrecks.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: One of them was a soccer player that had to cut out that died a mile from my house. I went to George Extrication School, man. I like, I geeked out on it. So I made myself where I was an asset. Because I wanted to be in a game. I wanted to be like in soccer where they call up somebody and they say, hey, can you guess? They call it a guest player. I want to be the guy that's the first up for a coach to call as a guest player And the more I trained and the better I got and the better I could perform on a fire ground, I realized that bosses and chiefs would get me in the game. I haven't been staged very much in my whole career. If there's a job, I'm in on the action, right? And so that pressure, you know, I embraced it with privilege. But you know, I've always said, I've said on these scraps before, I think one of the best books you can read is the 21 Air Refutable Laws of Leadership You know, we talk about talk about the law of influence, the law of the lid, and you know, I'm not gonna read them all to you. but I wasn't seeking I wasn't seeking to be anybody. We article the New Yorker. I wasn't seeking to be anybody. I wanted people to fucking leave me alone. I got tired of people harassing me about my radio strap, buying my own tools. Oh I goes on vacation He don't know this is just a fucking job. You know what? But I'm laughing now, not them. You know, because it's been a fulfillment for me. I mean, like, I just love going. to bad calls. Now, I don't like people dying. And if you know me, man, it it it has caught up to me over the years. I'm I'm sick of seeing, you know, people messed up. But I want to keep going because I like the pressure. of hopefully making a difference, either through the people I work with, myself, preparedness, and doing. But the conferences Like like I don't even have time to tell you the conference I've told it before the conferences came based on a fire chief getting fired, some shit changed it, a scamby. I was no longer allowed to teach Before the conferences, like we were doing all kinds of stuff at a scambia.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Mike Lombardi was coming and teaching for free in Scambia. And a guy named Bob McLaughlin, who was a county administrator, called me to his office and he said, Chief Best thing you can do is come to work, do your shift, and you teach other places. And so County Fire Tactics, CFT, was born out of Kenny Perkins getting fired February of 2009 and I could no longer do training, so I had to go seek something else. Created created fire conference is and then it I I Like where it is today, I wish I could tell you I had some business plan. There wasn't no business plan. We were bankrolling conferences. We were opening the next one to pay the last bill. And, you know, it was it was because the more we did it, the more I thought, this is pretty damn cool, man. We're bringing people to my town, to my beach. Firefighters that want to can come for free. And then I realized, well shit, man, like I got a bunch of people I'm friends with that own restaurants out here. They're cooks or they're bartenders. And they started saying, this is awesome, Kurt, man, like, you know, like, you know, in December and January, somewhere like like we're broke, man. Like there's nobody out of here. Four, three, four, five, six hundred firefighters drinking for four nights. You know what? It does make a difference for us for the week. And so to be honest with you, man, there wasn't no business plan. I wasn't looking to influence nobody I just want to go to fires. I just want to train. I just want more people to be in the job. I want people to be proud to wear any type of fire department t-shirt I don't want somebody to be embarrassed when they go to a Christmas party where there's significant other and everybody there is some other job and you're not proud to say I'm a firefighter. I've always been proud I'm gonna be proud, you know, with my kids, my firefighters, or whatever they, you know, do. So when people are seeking To have influence or they're seeking to be popular or whatever. They usually don't get there, man.

Corley: Right. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Anybody that's impacted the fire service, Lombardo, or you know, any of those a gazillion people that a bunch of people went on scrap They just people like you and I, Corley. They love the job. That's it. It wasn't, they weren't, they weren't, they're not, they're not like trying to talk. I'll be honest with you. I fucking broke my phone two Thanksgivings ago. 3930581, thousands of firefighters had it. I was done. I got a new phone number. Like, you know, I gave it to you. And I give it to people I'm friends with, but Like there was a point where I can't like people I couldn't keep up with the messages on Messenger. Like, man, like sometimes now I'll wait two or three days to reply back because if not, I'd just be on my phone. I would say in the last year I've left my phone on the kitchen counter, on my nightstand, in one year, in the last year more than I did 10 years combined before. I disconnect from my phone. It's not that I don't love the fire service, but I gotta mentally take care of myself and I can't like I no longer can train somebody via Facebook or through messenger and i'm gonna get back to doing the doc videos and and a little different format and so i took kind of a break because i don't want people people to think i'm too bipolar right So when I come back, it's gonna be a little bit more emotionally intelligent. I'm gonna still get off the chain a little bit, off the wheels. You know what I mean? I'm not gonna be Simon Cynic or anything. But you know, so I I really can't answer that question other than I wasn't looking. to have influence. Just like when we did the conferences, man, I turned Brandon Dunn down with fire station furniture. Todd Edwards, you know, you know, he he's the man, man. He he he manages all the CFT team shit. Jessica does, you know, all the administrative and the registration. the truth is, man, I don't do much now until the conference gets here. I stand up on stage and have the opportunity and introduce people you know as a whole but you know for for Me, I've had to step back and I'm actually engaging more to Scambia and I actually been turning every speaking job down for almost a year now I on the books for the next 18 months, I only have four speaking gigs.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Everything else has been turned down. I would normally have, I don't know, 20 or 30. Yeah. and I'm not even gonna open my calendar up until after the this summer. Next year I'm only going to open up three more opportunities because I want to work my shift at a scammy, not shift trades, not Swaps are coming. And we're just hiring so many people. And you know, my two boys might be coming on the job. I want to be there. And I don't know how much time I got left to this candy. Not because I'm a retirement shit. I don't know, man. Something could happen But right now, my projectory is I want to go out knowing that I put more in on my last years than I did my earlier years. Because I gave my life to a scamby. The first eight years, I gave my life to a scam. Like life. Like I lived there. I was going to fires all the time off duty, like trailer fires from my house And I'm not going to be doing that because we're more staffing. But do I want influence there? Yes. I want, I don't give a shit about influence across the country But I want influence at a scambia because I think we got the greatest fire department around and I think we can continue to be greater as a whole. Now I like to maximize whatever people think my influence is. Like oh my ADHD almost forgot where I was going I turned out Brandon Dunn and then Todd said man the guy will help us out and then he came to BCBC man that guy's fucking badass he owns the furniture company And now I want to do my part to let him think he's getting more than he's giving me because he's sponsoring paying for coffee. He's giving us furniture And so if I have influence and I do believe in this product, shit, this is what's in the cottage, this is what we sit in. I'm like, you know what I mean? We got his office chairs in the other room. Elkart brass. This is no bullshit, man. First vowel I ever used as a kid. First nozzle I ever used. I traded it out from midway. So on a six by six rig called Little John. And then when I turned 14, the primary fires that I got to be on the nozzle were brush fires So I went to a guy David Burnett, he was the fire chief, and I took him a brand new nozzle and it was a lightweight just like this but acolyte.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: And so I have the you know the first So I've been using L Card my whole career. L Card is sponsored like FDIC the last 25 years I've been going there. And it's a great company. So I have influence, but I didn't work for Ford last week and say Chevy sucks and now I'm working for Chevy and you know vice versa. If I'm gonna sponsor a company and use whatever influence I have, it's because I truly believe in the product. Corley: It's not fake. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Because I turn people down all the time. I've been wearing Morning Pride. My first set of bunker gear in 1988 was Morning Pride. My first set of custom fitted gear. I still have it. It's in my attic, was Morning Pride. I think Morning Pride makes the best, you know, bunker gear So I'm kind of spinning off of this question. If somebody, whether they're choosing to get influence in a fire service or they accidentally somehow get influence out of sweat, equity, investment, working their ass off. Use it for the right reasons. Figure out, everybody's got to make a living, man. You got to pay for the power bill, you got to pay for gas. Figure out how your influence is going to impact fire departments, organizations. and make things happen. You know, Key Hose is one of our top sponsors next to Elcart. I told them like they gave us host for HROC ten years ago a shitload and I was like I wasn't fully in I wasn't fully in because I'm like I got this influence But I don't want to jump off the ship when all this stuff was going on and then after year after year after year after year, and then Joey Hayes got the job And I was like, I believed in Joey Hayes. And I already believed in Mark Lighthill. But now I've got over 10 years. 10 years of positively knowing the product works. So now I'm not fake using my influence. That makes sense. I'm influenced. and to be honest with you, I I really couldn't I I think Scott and MSA are both great. I'm not gonna knock one or the other. I just think it depends on which model you're getting so just to close out that thing i wasn't looking for influence i obviously i have to acknowledge that it exists with that i have to be try to be a little bit more mature.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Sometimes, you know, my obsession, my childness comes out because I love the job. And a lot of times I'm just misunderstood or misread you know as a whole. And sometimes, you know, if you're a speaker Sometimes you gotta be dynamic, if you will, even though you don't necessarily mean you're not trying to spit in somebody's face or be rude. You're just trying to get their attention. You're trying, you know, that's what it's about. That's like that's why the delivery you know, matters, but I think that people that love the fire service, once you know you have influence, whether it's influence over one or a thousand Make sure you're using it for the positive reason because you know some people don't even realize they have influence and you know if if if you know it's a it can be a show in itself. I call it the messy effect You know, Messi came to America, he plays for the MLS soccer team, enter Miami. He broke Tom Brady, LeBron James. He broke every American athlete's record. So more jerk more jerseys in 24 hours than any other American athlete sold in history. The ticket sales went up 700% by the second match that he played He went from inner Miami like having nobody followed him Instagram. I think they're the number one MLS team being followed on Instagram over LA Galaxy Seattle soccer team. And so that's one person, right? So we got to dumb that down. Yeah, we don't have messy effect But we have more fire department effect, Scambia County Fire Department effect, CWatch effect, right? So figure out what it is, make the most of it. Use it for the right reasons. Always remember the law of the lid. Don't get outside your range and you know try to be grounded. and you know I don't I don't try to I don't try to act like I'm some damn leader. I I I make a shitload of mistakes I screw up. I hopefully I compensate because I love the fire service. I love my people and I'm gonna take care of them. I want them to do good. I want them to feel good. I want them to go home, you know. Safe, if you will. Right. and I want to just make my part of the world better. That's it.

Corley: Boom. Dude, there you go, tailboard misfits, one of the best questions of the night. And there's been a lot of good questions. and a lot of good answers from Chief Ike. So I'm gonna move to, and I've you've been on the this is your fifth scrap congratulations. But fifth scrap and but you've been asked this question every time you've been on. Book or books that you think firefighters should be reading. And it's okay to repeat the earlier ones because As the scrap has grown, some people will be seeing it that that did not see the originals. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Well, I mean, every firefighter and company officer needs Champo's tower ladder book. Like in a fire service, you know. A lot of people have written a lot of great books. Most of the fire service authors that wrote a book The book they wrote was so broad and they worked so many ranks, engine truck, rescue chief Hate Shampo's entire career has been ladder company operations. 44 truck. Like, I mean, like that's the tower ladder and all the paintings for any of you bought fire buffs. 45 truck, right? I mean Mike Campo's proby class was him, Liam Flaherty, and Andy Fredericks were all in the same, just to give you a little fire buff history there. he worked in DC In Wyckoff, where his family's from and the real champo is brother John. They got a Sea Grave tower ladder. So many volunteer departments got a tower ladder. He's worked on Tower 44, Tower Ladder 44 Like that book is written by a guy 40 years of like ladder company operations, you know, fire engineering training minutes. Now he's got Tom Brennan's back page. So like If your fire department is going to fires, whether you have a tower ladder or a straight stick, you need the tower ladder because tower ladder book. I mean, it's like real world Firefighting. It's like it you gotta have it. You know, leadership books. you know, Chief Lee's book, Trevor, just finished it last week and the other same books that you know always say the Chief Clark and the 21-year football as a leadership, you know, John Norman's fire officer handbook You know, there's a there's a gazillion, you know, good books out there, but you know, just getting basics, man. Like I brought it up one time before.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: I don't have it here. It's over in our the closet The old NFPA engine company operations book. It's like a turquoise grain. It's not real thick. I mean, it's a great book. It's like 35 years old. It truck company. you know, books great. if you're into this job and you're not getting FDTN, you know, newsweekly thing once a month, it's crazy. You gotta be doing a little bit of, you know, reading I'm not as good as I used to be. I used to get seven publications in the mail years ago. And my goal was to read just one article out of each publication. So, you know, like I just make fire engineering I read the back page. I would read other articles. But my thing was, Fire Chief magazine, Janet Wilmoth was the editor. Like if all I did was read Janet Wilmoth's editorial, I at least read an article out of Fire Chief Fire rescue, right? NFPA journal, the West Coast. And I think I learned more from just a lot of one page, two-page, 1500, 2000-word articles over a 30-year period, I think that's where the power is in the fire service. You know, whether it's reading a recent article from Sean Duffy or Scott Thompson or or whoever, man, there's just There's so many great people in the fire service putting out some great information. and you just gotta sit down and read it, man. Like at the kitchen table, laying in bed at night. It's those little bitty nuggets, like I said, the one hour per shift, 120 shifts, an article, a shift, 120 articles. It's a lot of stuff.

Corley: No doubt about it, brother. Love it. And that's it. And I love Chief Leib. You know, he's he he he has that slide where he puts up and talks about his mentor, his his very first lieutenant, I think, who told him read something fire service related every day. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Absolutely. One 100%, man. You got to. It's the only way. Corley: And that's that, you know, you look you want to look at somebody who's done it, who's lived it, and then you can see the impact it's had on his career and the impact he's had on so many. So absolutely, which takes us to one of my favorite parts of the scrap. You've done this many times before. I don't know if you're aware of the five questions as they stand right now But good because so this will be coming at you this will be coming at you kind of blind. So are you ready for the latest version of the five questions for firefighters? Chief Kurt Isaacson: Yes, I am. Corley: I love it. I absolutely love it. All right. You know the rules. The the questions, there's no right or wrong answer. It's only your opinion. And the audience and myself will help score them. So here we go. Number one What is the skill that has carried you through your fire service career?

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Passion, you know, whether you want to call it a skill or not. Passion, passion, passion, man. Loving the job. A no apology approach. You know, I like people to like me. That's great. But I love the job too much to let somebody talking behind my back influence my decisions. You know, and I I do got to share this because this is kind of like a leadership lesson If a chief is making decisions as a fire ground commander based on what somebody might fucking say at another firehouse that night or the next day at dinner, they don't fucking need to be a chief. Number one priority of a fire ground commander, a battalion chief, eliminate all complacency on the fire ground. Number one job of a line chief officer is to eliminate complacency. When a boss don't want to breathe there, you tell them to breathe there. When they don't want to stretch a line, tell them to stretch a line. When they don't want to force a door, tell them to force the door You're eliminating complaints. You're eliminating when they want to cut corners and be lazy. That's what you're there for. And then how do you do that? Be passionate. Give a shit. Want to do it right every time. Dot the I, cross the T, and make it right, even when you're tired. Passion, passion, passion. You know what? And I wake up some days frustrated. But I'm gonna tell you what, man, I love this job. Like I can't even explain how much I love it.

Corley: I love the answer. Here's what I love about the answer. He said passion. He thought about it. He thought about it. He said passion. Then he said passion, passion, passion. And then On top of that, he gave a passionate story to back up the passion. And so absolutely easy, easy max points. And the Audience absolutely agrees. There's tons of fiery emojis, tons of max points. And this is something you have to do, Chief. It'll take a while before YouTube catches up because it has to post and it'll be like A day later, 24 hours later, but you'll be able to go back and read. There's about 400 or 500 comments. I don't know when you'll get the time to read them all, but there is a ton of good ones on what you've said today. You'll have to go back at some point and catch up. max point so far. Question two. It's job town. It's time. You are in route and responding. You got to think of the scene where Stephen McCaffrey's running to jump on the rig because he was late and that that that driver slaps that tape into that cassette deck, right? What song are you choosing to play while you're in route? Jimmy Hendrix all along the Watchtower. Watchtower. How come I should have known that?

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Well, I played it in my class at firemanship in Portland. Corley: Okay. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Yeah, you played it here in OKC. Hey, if you read the lyrics, man, it goes all with a fire service. Like shit, I talked about identifier and You know what I mean? The time is getting late. I mean like like like what the fuck are we waiting for, dude? Like like like let's let's let's get the bit let's get this shit done Corley: But I love it. I love it. You played it here in OKC, and that's when I first heard you break down the lyrics. Absolutely. Max points. Easy, easy. I should have seen that coming. number three, what is Your favorite fire service tradition picking up hose. Chief Kurt Isaacson: All hands pick up. Everybody at the rear of the rig putting their hands on hose. Dude, like Even today, I can look down the street, whether it's four or twenty people loading hose in the back of the rig, man, it puts a smile on my face. Like it I I don't know what it is. I've always liked loading hose. I I I just think loading hose is cool as shit, man. I just Like that's the sign of work. We did some work. We did a job. We stretched. We float. I love water. Like that like The tradition of like everybody at the back of the rig was FDNY like that's what we do with a scambium man like you know the lieutenant sometimes will go off to the side and they'll talk about what they did, but a bunch of people all together talking, smoking, joking, whatever And I try not to rush them because like that's their chance to talk to each other. They just can't go to the other firehouse and sit there. I mean, I gotta they gotta stay in their first due. So that's the time to give them a chance to to to like, you know, talk a little bit, you know. So absolutely, man. Like sometimes I think I I I don't even realize. I think I subconsciously ordered hose lines to be stretched just so there's more hose to pick up.

Corley: I was gonna ask, is it is it do you love it because it means hose was put on the ground Chief Kurt Isaacson: Absolutely. Corley: Right. No, I don't know. Chief Kurt Isaacson: When in doubt, stretch another line, man. Stretch one for you, me, and the brother just to be safe. Corley: I love it. Max point. And it it all ties back to that first answer. Passion. Passion. All right. This one's on the clock. I don't know if you've had this one before. This one's on the clock. This is the Mount Rushmore of the Fire Service. According to you, you get to put four people on the Mount Rushmore of the Fire Service, but you only get one minute to do so. So Your Mount Rushmore of the Fire Service, Kurt Isaacson, and go. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Like for an engine company or a truck or how many people? Corley: Kurt Isaacson's four people he gets to put on Mount Rushmore of the Fire Service. Chief Kurt Isaacson: Bill Gustin, absolutely. Mike Lombardo, absolutely. I I said him last time but I'm gonna say him again, Bob Hoff Andy Fredericks. Corley: That's hard to argue. I don't think anybody will argue whatsoever, whatsoever, with those four. Gustin, Lombardo, Hoff, and Fredericks. And you did it 33 seconds, actually, shorter than that, but go ahead.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: Well, I was just going to say Hoff was you know big training chief in Chicago, special operations, line chief for a long time. Lombardo was the truck captain Gustin's a suburban engine type, you know, guy, and Andy Fredericks was a nozzle firefighter. So they all kind of make up a company too, which is kind of cool Corley: It really is, man. Final question. You've answered this question, I believe, five times. Five times, because this is a question that never changes. There is heavy fire. There is searchable space. Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on VES? Chief Kurt Isaacson: Nozzle. Corley: Yeah. Easy answer. Chief Kurt Isaacson: I mean somebody like you know what man like somebody else can get that grab. Like I'm a geek for water mapping and No and without seeing, man. I've been trained, taught by some of the best. And then now we got the water mapping prompt, the UL's done, and like Like I can close my eyes and I can I can tell you where that water's going. You know what I mean? It's it's and so I think I would be a better asset to be on the nozzle because I think I appreciate and value how important that hose line is and the fact that water creates and maintains survivable space Water's the equalizer. Water can buy back time. And you know, with that, I'm going to give the other person a greater chance of making that grab and then successfully getting them out without causing you know secondary harm from dropping steam, heat, pushing fire, so on and so forth. So I think I would be more value to the team team on the hose line in charge of suppressing the fire while somebody else does the search, makes a grab and figure out what kind of damn strap they're going to use to drag them out

Corley: I love it. And that makes it officially 250. I can't believe I'm saying that out loud. 250 scraps in the books. One of the easiest max points. Five for five max points I've ever given out. Chief Kurt Isaacson, thank you so much for spending your evening with us. if people want to get a hold of you, what's the best way to do so? Chief Kurt Isaacson: Easy just you can go to countyfireetics. com or just chiefike. com, chiefike. com, which pulls up my email address, all my articles from Firehouse Magazine my different podcasts. tVite. com is the easiest because then you just click on my email and it pulls it up and you just email me at cftactics And just reminding everybody, like it'll actually shut down at midnight because I didn't know if we were going to go till midnight. So you got an hour and 23 minutes to buy the gold pass of all time CFT Gold Pass, nine conferences, three of them five days. ODP, COBC, Water on the Fire, nine five fire conferences, $950 It's double the benefit of what CFT 100 was. And then the other one is the CFT Mentor, which is the four conferences for 275. It's like That's just crazy. I mean four conferences for 275 bucks. so you got an hour and 23 minutes over with. And we couldn't do that if it wasn't for Elcart and Keyhoes Identifier you know morning pride fire station furniture columbia southern and they all i hope so they support and sponsor you too absolutely don't the same people they're making these companies not only they make good products They're supporting fire service training. They're making shit happen for us.

Corley: Absolutely. Hey, you got call your crews up and say, hey, let's split this Are you guys in and get in on it? I promise you. I have no one has ever gone to a CF tactics conference and at the end of it said, man, I'm sorry I went here No one. Yeah. Chief Kurt Isaacson: I mean most of those on average, the hotel rates start at 99, 109. There's only two of them that cost more than $129 a night. That's the COBC because it's, you know, it's beautiful weather. And they start at 149. They give us half off the hotel rooms on Pensacola Beach. They kill us, man. And then all the discounts, the wristbands. You know So many people make the world go round and we gotta value the trash man. Let the trash man not come for two months and you'll appreciate him And you know, I say it all the time, these conferences, the people that make it happen is crazy. Not just these businesses, but like Pensacola Beach, the Hilton, letting us flow water. It's like So many great people in society and it's so easy to walk around negative, but we ought to be walking around positive because just a lot of great people out there and people still love firefighters. They love the fire service

Corley: Firefighter Jim Fred said, I drank too much caffeine for this short ice crap. Hey, we're approaching three hours. We're at two hours and 40 minutes. It's not man, absolutely I love it. I absolutely love it. audience, okay, let me get the rest of the the housekeeping done Chief Ike has graciously agreed to give us a few more minutes and come be a part of the after party. So you can come in there. Vigilantes can come in there. You can roast him and tell him how terrible he did on sharing his passion tonight we always threaten to roast the guest. We never deliver on that, but it is a good time. If you want to be a part, be a vigilante. Go to firehousevigilance. com. If you don't know what the vigilante is, shame on you coming up on the scrap next week, it is BJ Breacher. Following that, Brian LaFleur, then Michael Horton, and then Richie Stack. So the the 2024 is just continuing with the more and more badass lineup. You do not want to miss these episodes as we keep 2024 rolling in style. Thank you, Kurt Isaacson, for being such a phenomenal guest Vigilantes, if you're going to be a part of the scrap after party, look for the link in the private group, Patreon, and Facebook. Sam is posting it as we speak. Hopefully we'll have some Jimi Hendrix playing as we as we log in there. Audience, I cannot say this enough, man. There were so many people waiting for the scrap to kick off at 250. You guys showed up. You showed out. You brought your passion. You threw Write down the pipe to Kurt so that he can knock him out of the park. I loved your questions. You guys make the scrap magical 100% and I can't thank you enough for tuning in week in and week out 250 weeks in a row. There it is. I got it. I'm not gonna let you.

Chief Kurt Isaacson: That's a private message to me from you, but it's behind me. You couldn't see it because a lazy boy. Corley: I love it. I absolutely love it, man. Everybody, I love you all. Thank you for being here. 250 episodes in the books. Remember, just like Chief just said, mutts don't scrap I hope the tone stays silent unless it is burning. Everybody stay safe out there. Speaker 1: Chief, you just got to grab me a 38 billion.