Weekly Scrap #255 - Andrew Pristach, Tradesman and Fabrication

Corley: Corley Moore, spending a few minutes here at the beginning to talk about the vigilantes. If you know me, you know I love this group. And if you are not already a vigilante, you need to ask yourself why you are not. There are so many great things about being a member. You get the first look at the behind the scenes of the scrap. You get to have input on the future direction of the scrap. There are the Vigilante meetups, the Vigilante only swag shop, the merch discounts, the fireaways, the VIP forums, which are like scraps, but you get to log in and be involved on the screen talking to the person. It's great, man. And all the vigilantes are invited. You get the files, you get the posts, you get the questions and the polls. But the best part, besides all of that stuff, the best part is that you get to belong to a community. Like-minded souls. And when you have that, when you belong to a community of like-minded souls like that, man, it is powerful. Especially in this calling, especially in this profession. When you have that, you are never alone. So go to patreon. com slash the vigilantes and join today. It's five bucks a month. Five bucks a month. I used to say it's the price of a cup of coffee, but that's not even true anymore. Because you can't hardly get a cup of coffee for five bucks a month. Month. It's the best value in the fire service. So go to patreon. com/slash the Vigilante's and go sign up today. Become a member of the Cool Kids Club. Come hang out. I look forward to seeing you there. Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance. It is weekly scrap number 255. My guest tonight is Andrew Pristak. I gotta close YouTube. Hold on one second. I'm hearing myself. I'm here. Oh, there we go. All right. My guest tonight is Andrew Pristak. He is a 13-year firefighter, currently a sergeant with the Spartanburg City Fire Department in South Carolina. He's the owner of Tradesman Fire and Fabrication. He is the co-designer of the Council Tool TD30 Halligan Bar and the FE6 and FE8 Axis, a founding member of Dixie Firemanship, and an instructor at the Mississippi State Fire Academy. Most of all He is fired up about the trade of firefighting. And it is my absolute pleasure to welcome you, Andrew Prustack, to episode 255 of The Scrap.

Corley: Welcome, my brother. Thanks for having me. Gonna be an exciting evening. Is there anything I missed? Anything you would like to add to the intro? Andrew Pristak: No, that sounds too much already. Corley: I like it. Get your questions primed and ready for Andrew, for myself. Sam will be grabbing your questions from The chat. He will be throwing them up here so we can ask him. So if you need them. Oh, someone said let's catch everybody up I'm gonna there's so there's already a lot of hype here. I there's already about 60 comments. I can't even keep up. A lot of let's goes, a lot of here we goes. Joe Gavita said max mustache points. Mustache? Moustache? The stash from George Godson. Cody Brooks says, Josh, you got some competition on facial hair, max stash points. And Peyton Price said, in all caps, Prista! And I don't know if it's or ch, because I think he might be going for the mustache, but we'll see. Andrew Pristak: Yeah. Corley: All right. Stash Bro LFG from Greg White. Apparently I I don't know if we should have had a scrap with Andrew or Andrew's mustache Andrew Pristak: I mean my mustache might go over better, but we'll see.

Corley: We'll give him a chance. We'll give him a shot. Please, please, please throw your questions at me and Andrew. It should be a lot of fun. Let's talk about those beautiful sponsors. The OG sponsor of the scrap is, of course, Keyhose. And finally, Mike O'Hare and RPM Rescue Safety and Training are the absolute best. If you need or want quality technical rescue training, reach out to Michael at rpmscue. com. So there we go. The sponsors are done. I'm hearing a knock. I keep hearing a knock. Where's the knock? Andrew Pristak: Sorry, that's my dog who is itching her leg. Corley: Okay, fair enough. I thought it was me. I didn't know. I was like, I'm hearing a knock. We're done with this we're done with the sponsors. We're ready to get to the scrap. Let me see. I'm pulling up questions. Questions coming. Better get your questions in. Someone said, Jeremy Luck said, Andrew, your favorite FC FRD officer is watching. Andrew Pristak: He used to be my lieutenant when I was still working in Virginia. Corley: Clay McGee said, and this is this is high praise. I feel dumb anytime I talk to Andrew. There you go. Andrew Pristak: Feel dumb listening to me.

Corley: Luke Stevenson said, I like this, Luke. He said, gentlemen, let's get amongst it. So I like the I like the proper tone of that that So here we go. Forcible entry. That's that's is that safe to say that's your wheelhouse? Something you're a little bit passionate about? Andrew Pristak: Just a hair. Corley: Okay. Here and there. Yeah. So let's talk about it. you're a fan of Iron's work, man. I like the fact that you said holistic approach as opposed to the tips and tricks that is typically what you get. So I love that statement. So explain to me what you mean by the holistic approach. Andrew Pristak: So to me, a lot of the times we go to you know people teaching For support entry especially, it's sometimes it we do X, sometimes we do Y. It's how I was taught initially. and I'm I'm not fan of the the approach that way. Because we don't tend to operate that way. If you look into the psychology of how we operate on the fire ground, you know you look into recognition prime decision making, we're not making decisions under stress. We're picking through a a almost kind of a pre-approved list of options in your mind. So instead of teaching you know a decision-making model where I have to look at it and evaluate options. which we don't do under stress. We try it for our classes, we teach a plan A, plan B, plan C algorithmic approach where plan A has to fail into plan B and plan B fails into plan C, somewhere along those three, 99% of the doors you're ever going to see are going to fail at some point. So for us, we teach just hitting the door at the lock as hard as you can with a big piece of metal. You know, for the same reason people kick doors, it works. And we can go in more detail a little bit with that versus like the baseball swing. and then plan B adds work. So if I hit the door really hard, chances are if it doesn't open, it's gonna loosen up a little bit. It's not shocking in the way that shocking is normally taught. No, I was getting ready to ask that.

Corley: You're not saying shock, you're saying attack the lock with the brute direct impingement. Andrew Pristak: With brute force Yeah, I'm not hitting high and low. I'm not hitting next to it. I'm hitting on it. Corley: Okay. Andrew Pristak: in an attempt to open it. And if it doesn't open, well, now I've probably loosened it up just a hair I can go in with the ads. One of the things we see. Corley: And I'm digging in, sorry, but not only that, but if you get if you if you do you know bring that force to that lock and you get that Okay. You get you get you instantly know okay that did nothing. And so now you have a like almost a size up part of your algorithm or yes, no Andrew Pristak: so we'll we'll still pursue the same ABC on and this is inward swinging doors, just because the way that you tend to operate under stress. having having the system you can always drop a a step out if you were had the presence of mind to say that's not gonna work you know I can see that I I know from experience but most People are never going to quite get there. They don't have enough time forcing doors under stress on a fire ground. So we still teach carrying through A, B, C. B, we're going to go in with the ads. About we we teach a foot to 10 inches away from the lock, a little bit further, because real doors flex. You don't see it very much in props.

Corley: Right. Andrew Pristak: But real doors do flex And why are we going where there's the most resistance to what we're trying to do? Because we're gap set. If it's gap set force, right? Well, gap has nothing to do with forcing the door. It's about getting enough daylight to be able to get the tool between the door and the frame. So why would I go where it's tied the door is tied to the frame? I want to go away from that. So most residential lock sets and most commercials are about 40 inches off the ground. Your bars Most people are carrying a 30 inch bar. Ten inches down, you can still get full extension. Corley: Gotcha. No, if you maximize your leverage, but you're getting you're getting farther enough away from the lock to Yeah, get your flex. Okay. Andrew Pristak: Yeah, we don't generally teach over top of the lock because one, you have to be like 6'4 to do a complete arm extension on the offside. and the If I'm I want to keep my one man and two man approaches the as similar as possible on one man I'm going to be fighting gravity. It's easier to strike low than it is to strike high. It's easier to wedge low as a single person. So we we teach going below the lock. And if the the one thing we we saw a lot of yeah in the the field that you don't see see on props is is jam crushing or jam failure. So most doors are exterior residential and commercial doors are are an inch and three quarters thick right so right I have a two inch thick adds on a standard halligan bar If I gap all the way down, I get a quarter inch of daylight to be able to wedge, set a tool, you know, wedges and axes. Don't make turns. So I have to have some amount of daylight opened up to be able to capture my progress. If that jam the the stop itself crushes down, say a quarter inch, which is fairly common on a wooden frame, right?

Corley: Oh yeah. Andrew Pristak: I no longer have any space to put a wedge. There there is no sticking an axe in there and beating it until it makes it through the other side. You can do that on a prop because the steel is going to allow you to steer yeah to to steer, but on on real doors that's that can be a problem. So for for us if that happens, if it starts at all, if I can hear, see or feel it crushing down, or immediately go into the forks. We we something the the cadre I I teach with has noticed for a long time is just over application of ads work on inward swinging doors. And a lot of it goes back to to props that aren't replicating the real life environment we're seeing on the fire ground. So we ended up changing the the props I make a couple years ago. A friend of mine used to be my roommate. We had a door at the station that I lived at for about six months. when I first moved to Tennessee. And we would train all the time. And I'd I'd point out like, hey, if the if the jam fails We're done with the ads, go to the forks. Okay. And then we would train, you know, simulating that kind of panomiming. Okay, the bar's up. Adds, you know, the jam failed, switches your forks. He gets out on a I think it was actually a medical lockout. Jam blows out. puts the ads back in, jam blows out again, puts the ads back in, jam's not even there anymore, and he's still trying to leverage off of something that's not there.

Corley: Just strictly off the muscle memories, just strictly off the yeah, that's a way that's a good thing. Andrew Pristak: Well think about it this way, that every time he had ever put the ads into a door Or at least a door prop. Corley: He'd succeeded. Andrew Pristak: It'd have been successful. So he had an expectation of success. It's the same way that if you train fire attack down a hallway, and every time you train going forward, and you never train going back. while flowing, you have an expectation of success built up in your mind that every time I've made it down this hallway. You know, sometimes you need to train for I need to back out and I need to flow while I do it. So for us, it's I need to train for the the front of the jam blowing out. So we we ended up changing the props to where you could reload the the jam strip with wood and actually get that crush. And that was that was huge for us. I'm sure I think I had somebody talk to me about asking a question about how we're simulating training or inducing stress during classes. I think I mentioned it in the questions you sent. But that's been huge for us because we can watch if you ever read Thinking Fast and Slow by Kahneman type one thinking is is the things you can do automatically. Type two thinking are the things that make thought, right? So we can eliminate type two thinking and we can see what the students actually take from the class. after two days, like what is at least to the like the autonomous if not mastery stages of learning. And we can show, hey, you need to work on on these things, but we've we've been able to see that that plan A B C approach lasts under stress, which is really, really cool to see after you know two days we can ins essentially like indoctrinate that into them. It's that's been a a really cool process to watch.

Corley: No, that's awesome. And I will say a couple things right out the gate as we get going on this topic is A Anytime you bring in somebody that's that whose main focus is forcible entry or basically truck work, you know what I'm saying, you're not ready for them to reference Daniel Kahnman and thinking fast and slow in system one and system two, let alone use a word like autonomous So kudos, but no, that's what you get on the scrap, and it's awesome. I love I love the discussion so far. And you've already answered one of the questions that was coming up, which was from Popom Popom Popo Medic. Okay, Popo Medic. He said, do you train on wooden jams? And you said you incorporated that into your prop, correct? Andrew Pristak: Yes. Yeah, wooden door edges and wooden jams. Corley: Sweet. All right. Patrick Dighton wants to know, Andrew, are you ready for questions from the audience? I should ask that. I usually I try to prefer to ask. that andrew wants to patrick wants to know andrew what do you what do you prefer to have on the fire ground a set of irons or two halligans and the why behind it

Andrew Pristak: Okay, so the only time I'm carrying a set of irons is if I'm operating by myself. Single man, I know a lot of people they they carry some variation of a bar and a wedge or a bar and a hook. To me, the the only effective single man option for the most part is going to be a full set of irons. But if I have a second person, it's far more versatile to carry two bars, just one guy. I don't know if the whoever asked the question meant two bars married to each other. I've seen that one time. But I I wouldn't do that. But yeah, single man, I'll I'll carry a full set versus two-man. Yeah, bar to bar is ever since Sam Hittle showed me that, it's That's been mind-blowing. Corley: Gotcha. Gotcha. There you go, Patrick. It was Patrick asking it. Jeremy Locke wants to know, what made you want to build your own props? Andrew Pristak: Well, this is kind of a softball question because he was there when I built it. Okay. So the volunteer station I was at at the at the time wouldn't they they didn't have a door and they they weren't interested in buying one. The career department I was at and the the volunteer station that that Jeremy and I were at did not have the money for that. I think we had a one made out of two by fours and a like a residential interior door. And I was like, you know what I'm have the money, I might as well try it. I had a copy of Sean Wilson's Green Door plans. this was probably back in like 2015.

Corley: Okay. Andrew Pristak: And it was like, oh I can make I can make myself a door. And like every other person who's ever made their own door, that by like time number eight rebuilding it, it was finally almost worth forcing. Corley: Right, right. Andrew Pristak: but yeah, it was it was just I I I went I wouldn't say I went through a a bad academy. It was fairly good for what it was. I just remember when they they were teaching, it was on one of those friction force doors, which people rightly give shit to, the ones with the little wheel that you crank down. instead of wood strips for resistance. It's like hinged down the middle. I don't know if you've ever seen one of those. It was the first commercially available. Okay. Yeah, it was the first commercially available door prop on the market. I will show my ignorance here and say I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, no, it's hinged down the middle. It's awful. I used to have a buffet table made out of two of the door panels. but the That was I got taught on that and it there is not a like it it tilts in the frame to to show like displacement where some doors would use springs or or mine uses wood that's crushable And so I didn't have a really good idea of what a door felt like. And then I had the instructor on that station was like, you know, showing us, you know, sometimes use the ads, sometimes use the forks. And I didn't really get it. I asked, you know, when do I use either one and they're like, well sometimes use the ads, sometimes use the forks. It wasn't he was bad at like teaching. Right. You know, and he was a good fireman. but on the fire ground, I'm sure that decision, that was a recognition prime decision making thing for him that he looked at it and went, I need to use the forks right now.

Corley: Right. Andrew Pristak: Well being brand new, just like telling a brand new guy, well, you know, whatever works for you. Well, no, because he doesn't know what works for him. I go to my first door and I it's a it's a disaster. you know, I I blow the frame out. It's on like a a dude is locked out of his house and we destroy this door and its frame. And I was kind of pissed at myself because I didn't feel like I knew my job. And I really wanted to be able to practice something that I didn't have a good handle on, but no one had the thing for me to practice on, so I figured I'd just build it myself. Corley: That's where it started? Andrew Pristak: Yep. Corley: How long was that process? Andrew Pristak: from building the I I think I built the first one. I probably had Five years on or so, four years on, something like that. At least started building it. Corley: Yeah. Kevin MacArthur wants to know, what do you look for in an axe? Six pounds or eight pounds? Andrew Pristak: So up until April I would have probably said The well so eight pounds is going to be more efficient than a six pound for most people. It depends on your your height, your weight. We do a class called Forceful Entry Physics where we actually stick your the head speed of the axe measured by a radar gun into a spreadsheet that does the calculations based on your height, weight. How fast it's moving, what are you putting out more force with? Handle length comes into play with that a little bit. But eight pounds is going to be a much is kind of your happy medium. In theory, if you were swinging a six pound faster, you know, because it's lighter, it would make more more force because force equals mass times acceleration. But The problem is we swing them the same speed. So you are getting more force out of an eight-pound axe. Ten pounds is a little heavy unless you're in really confined environments. And that's borne out by by testing what we've done. testing Sam Hiddle's done. if you were in really sm like confined environments. where you don't have a lot of room to move the tools and can't get that acceleration. Yeah, 10 pounds works really well. Eight pounds is just the nice happy medium.

Andrew Pristak: The I I for the last couple years have been carrying a six-pound axe though because there are other considerations. the cheek profile for wedging, so I want it to mirror a forceful entry wedge. I want a striking surface that is fairly large compared to the rest of the tool, and I want a fairly compact from one side to the other axe head. Another another thing I look for is is balance. So I want it balanced at the eye so that if I'm swinging one man and I've got the axe handle up in my armpit and I'm swinging. We were we were doing some high speed photography of of axes making contact and swinging one man the the head was actually a lot of axes have a lot more weight on the the bit side because they're meant for more of a chopping motion. Yeah. Right. Traditional axe work, which is not how we use them. But we were watching the heads come in and right before they made contact, the blade would drop and they'd come in and they'd glance. Even when they made solid contact, they weren't getting the full amount of force through.

Corley: Force. Yeah. Andrew Pristak: so it it was really elongating the amount of time it took to transmit that force. So I was carrying a six-pound axe because I could get all of the things I wanted in an axe out of a six-pound but I I couldn't find an eight-pound with those features. April Council released the FE8. I just put one of those in service at work. I haven't gotten to force a reel door with it yet, but It's essentially the same head as the one I was carrying, just scaled up slightly. So I went back to eight pounds. But yeah, so the weight is important, it's just not the only factor I look at. Corley: Right Roger. Right. Okay. Stephen Kaiser coming at you from the Southern Hemisphere. He wants to know, I work around a few on the fire ground that would rather boot the door than show patience slash professionalism in the art of forcing with tools. How would you deal with these people? Andrew Pristak: Well, one thing to point out it would be to I don't know if your department allows helmet cams is a great one or have them do it in training on an acquired or something like that. because people watch themselves do it and they suddenly don't feel as cool. Because especially in turnout gear with an air pack, you're kicking about a foot and a half off the floor. onto the bottom of the door, you're not anywhere close to the lock. Because to do a full donkey kick, you have to get your your torso pretty much horizontal.

Corley: Sure. Andrew Pristak: there are some the the technique to be able to do that correctly we we teach some law enforcement stuff you know for them doing it you know without tools They are their upper body is completely horizontal. There's a spacing that has to be just right to kick and you have to hit the ball of your foot. If you hit your heel, you can break your heel off, which is incredibly painful. To me, like I've watched someone blow their knee out doing that. it looked like it hurt a lot. and If I you know I'm given the choice of like my my knees aren't that good to begin with, they're kind of worn out. they they creak when I walk. and a you know six to ten pound piece of steel that the city provides me. I'm probably gonna use the big piece of steel that puts out a lot more force. yeah if they're if they're interested in like the scientific argument on it, you can about double your body weight kicking. but I you know we're looking at 4,000 plus pounds off of an axe head at 70 miles an hour. So Corley: The physics are there is what you're saying? Yeah. No, absolutely. And you can, yeah. There you go, Steve. The physics are there if you're asking. If they're asking, if they want to hear, but if they won't want to hear, of course, that's a whole nother story. Luke Stevenson also from the Southern Hemisphere coming at you. Recognizing, I would try to do an Australian accent, but it's always bad when I do that. So we might get Andrew to do it, but I'm not. Recognizing that props are not perfectly replicating real-world cases. How do we bridge that gap? Do we look for buildings to demolish and practice in?

Andrew Pristak: So yeah, and a good acquired structure program isn't valuable. so JJ from Soda City Fire Training and I have partnered up over the last about a year. He is a wizard at getting acquired structures. We had He's got a truck company school coming up that's like I think it's like 18 buildings. Everything's on real buildings, including the forcible entry. Corley: Oh wow. Andrew Pristak: We had two days where we forced 439 doors. Like in a group of, I think the first day we had three guys and the second we had eight. You get a different appreciation when you can back to back to back for stores where and truly work on the little things and be able to to tell the difference. by feel, door construction, frame construction, the locks, doors starting to skin versus it already has. So that kind of training is is absolutely invaluable. I think we could get better as a fire service for getting acquired structures, but I know that it's not an option for everyone. We can improve our props. Hopefully, you know, I've done a little bit of that over the the course of of building them. Yeah, in a lot of departments they'll buy a door prop and it's, you know, what a 15, 20 year investment until the thing wears out. They've come a long way in that 15 to 20 years though, as far as realism and and not just mine. Like a lot of them are out there far better than they used to be.

Corley: Right on. So Awesome Great question from Luke. Great questions from Australia back to back. Next one coming at you. Dan Bender wants to know with the increasing popularity of battery-powered extrication tools. Why are a lot of instructors avoiding showing techniques with spreaders or those dreaded combi tools? Asking for a friend. Andrew Pristak: Okay. so I don't know how much time he has on actually trying to use like you know triangular tipped extrication spreaders at doors can be very difficult to insert. Even tools like the the Hearst Strongarm, I know TNT has a a variation of one now. that they can be difficult to get in and get started. Irons are actually putting out more force than the the her strong arm is in a lot of cases at the now a good set of like of spreaders like you know a 48 two inch spreader on the old hearst is is gonna blow the the pants off of a a set of irons but Also, I don't take a set of spreaders around a side Charlie on a strip mall fire. I don't take them to the front door on a on a house fire. I have irons with me. You know, my plan A is always going to be what's in my hands, whether it's a fire alarm or it's a fire. With the exception of adding in like some saw work. Yeah, I plan A is never going to involve running back to the race for me. The the battery tools, we use them at work, I I have a a greater respect than I used to for them. They've come so far. At the door though, they still have some serious downsides.

Corley: Mainly the tip spate the tip size getting them started you start gap it you still have to gap it or what's the downside? I mean Yeah, it's a good idea. Andrew Pristak: So yeah, getting them inserted can be can be difficult. they they have a a very high likelihood, depending on where you place them, of of jam failure. they're heavy, they're bulky. So and it's it's not something that you know if I'm gonna come in to do an irons class, I don't teach it because I'm doing an irons class. It would be worth potentially in one of our physics classes on doing bringing a set in to evaluate. But solid irons, you know, I'm not bringing it inside on a central hallway apartment. Corley: Right. So No, it's not like it doesn't have value, it's just it's not your first go-to because of the deployment process. No, I love it. I love it. Great question and a great answer. Michael Ramirez wants to know. Team Ramrod wants to know. What has been the weirdest slash rarest door you have come across in your territory? or the hardest door you have forced. So story time basically. What's the one that's kicked your ass the most?

Andrew Pristak: I have seen a Fox Police Generation 2 lock in rural Virginia. I don't know how it got there. They were manufactured in the Northeast. They were put in in the Northeast. In like the 30s and 40s and 50s. so I I don't know how I got there other than you can buy them on eBay for 150 bucks. So that one was kind of weird. Hardest door I ever forced was It was actually in it, it was in an acquired, it was a outward swinging door. It was a holocore metal with metal slats on the inside that were were tack welded in. Oh wow. And the well that's so that's fairly standard for the the time of construction that it was made. The problem was it had a wall at the edge of the frame on the lock side. And it had a it was a rack and pinion deadbolt mortise lock that was about half an inch by inch and a half, like cold roll. And there was a cast iron pipe on the other side of the wall. So when we couldn't really get around the jam very well, and we went to take the wall out behind the drywall. this cast iron pipe so we can't we ended up hitting in the middle of the the shaft of the halligan bar to drive the the ads in which was kind of an on-the-fly variation we came up with. Yeah. And that was I have it on video. It was it was two guys and it was me and JJ from Soda City and it was like seven minutes of no wasted motion like dead just dead tired at the end of it and it fought because it yeah masonry wall that the the door was actually in concrete filled frame, which normally is nice to push off of, but it's kind of sucks if you can't deform it when you need to. Right. Yeah, fairly heavy door, very heavy lock. and it was just a single lock. But by the end of it, just getting around the the the jam, we had completely ruined the structural stability of the door, so we had nothing to pry off of. It yeah, that thing was a nightmare.

Corley: No, I can imagine. I can imagine. Alright. Get rid of that one. Who we got? Is what is the Kevin MacArthur is asking and wants to know what is the best way to increase your leverage when forcing stubborn doors with conventional irons? Andrew Pristak: Okay. So I don't do a whole lot of extending leverage. I don't think it gets us. We're still doing some testing on this. We're building out some load cells. But as far as I know it's been popular to show like marrying forks or extending with a a roof hook. So if I double the radius of a circle, I double the circumference of it. So for me to to walk like if I double the length of my lever. I now have twice the distance to walk in the same amount of time to keep the same to actually double the force. Corley: Right. Andrew Pristak: But if I was already moving as fast as I could, I can't double that. If I wasn't moving as fast as I could, I should have just moved faster instead of taking the time to marry up two bars or throw a roof hook on it The roof hook especially, there's some inefficiencies there because I have to hold it in the middle to keep the whole thing together. And the the shaft of the hook bends too. And if that's bending, It's like a gymnast mat. Instead of like there being a hard impact where I need it to rend a lock, it's bending and increasing the amount of time that it takes to transmit the force of the impulse So it's it's almost being more gentle on the lock. So I I think if we when we get done with the building these load cells to test that, I think we're going to find that you get just a little bit more force than you were just being one guy on the bar. My preferred way of adding force is to throw a second guy on the bar Because then I actually am doubling the amount of force I'm putting in as long as they're both being synchronized about it and putting their effort in at the same time. But yeah, I don't put a whole lot of stock into extending leverage. I also find I don't have a whole lot of space for that on actual doors.

Andrew Pristak: Even like the service ways of like a mall. I'm you know fairly heavy doors. I often don't have enough space to go six feet out. And if I'm going less than six feet out, I'm not getting the the full use of my lever anyways. Right. Corley: So I kind of tracked. I kind of tracked. I don't know if I tracked everything. Andrew Pristak: It gets it y it's a little complicated, but so the times that extending leverage like that works really well is if I'm going very short distances where I can go I can do a really quick row out at the end. Corley: Which is most forces is very short distances. Andrew Pristak: though correct so but you're as you the further your lever is where it would just be a quick like row into me that's maybe a foot right at the end of a halligan bar it's now two feet Right. It's 60 inches whatever it would be at 72. I can't do the math off the top of my head. So you are extending the amount of of distance that you have to move in the same amount of time to keep that force actually doubling, if that makes any sense.

Corley: Next question is coming at you from Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if I track. I'm not sure I track, but I am not a forcible entry guru by any stretch of the imagination. George Godson wants to know, can you explain your process on how to achieve mastery in a certain subject? Andrew Pristak: George is my rookie. Nice. See him in the morning. Could George be more specific? Corley: George, can you be more specific? Yeah, George, can you be more specific? Give us throw it at it. Zachary Window, we're gonna we're kind of I mean dude brother, there's nothing but I I still have like 14 questions coming at you so i hope you don't mind go for it i'm trying to i'm trying to dig in and also keep it moving but zakary windle wants to know when training any skill do you like to add stress and if so how do you try to replicate the stress of the fire ground and if not why don't you like to add stress stress. So there's a lot there, but I know there is topics. Andrew Pristak: Yes. So I do like adding stress, but I like it at a very specific point. So I worked for a department between where I started and where I am now. I won't mention what department it was because they're far better now than they were then. But I I went through I got hired on as a lateral and I had a a group of entry-level people with the laterals that were going to academy, but it was like this little introductory week or two thing. And before they they issued out air packs and before explaining what they were, how to use them, anything like that, they would Make you do SCBA emergency drills while the training officer screamed at you. I had a A person who was entry level in that class coming to me about four months later who told me she panicked every time she put her air pack on. Because they had trained her to panic through misapplication of stress.

Corley: Oh wow. Wow. Andrew Pristak: you know a lot of you see especially like recruit academies, guys want to kind of be like drill sergeants and it's like don't do that daring skills. If you look at, I don't think they really understand what drill sergeants do either. Because you do that for non-job related tasks. If you actually have to learn the skill, you don't need someone screaming at you. So my preferred method, I I like low stress, as low as I can go. If it's hot out, let's go find some shade. If, you know, grab a water and let's discuss this. Let's make sure we're on the same page And then yeah, we learn the skill and then we do the skill. And then we add that skill to other skills creating a drill. We add a narrative to it, making it a scenario. And then once we're at a fairly competent, you know, pretty high expectation of successful completion of of the the scenario, then we start adding stress to it. And if you do that and give it enough time You generally can go, it helps with getting to to autonomous learning and kind of pre-programming you to operate under stress. If you do it too early, you would do essentially train people to panic.

Corley: Okay. Andrew Pristak: The way that we've been, and I I caution people. with this technique. you can, like I said, you can train someone to panic. You can really fuck somebody up with what I'm about to say. But what we do in the in our physics class, we It's the light end of day two. We have a shed. We take everybody, everybody gets earplugs. There are two assault bikes sitting out in front of it. Okay, put earplugs in, get on the bike. 20 calories. Once both of you are done with 20 calories, get off the bike. You're on air, you're in gear. You're gonna go into the shed. It's the easiest force you're gonna do this weekend. It's a single door, single piece of wood, inward swinging. You've done this a million times. Corley: Right. Andrew Pristak: They go inside, they go to force it. They can see it. There's light in there. but it's an enclosed space for the reason that we have a thousand watts of stage amplifiers. surrounding the door. And we play Japanese grindcore at full volume, loud enough to be you can feel it in your lungs. But the reason we're doing that is is that they they already got their heart rate up. usually we're seeing somewhere between 150 and 165 for a heart rate. so we're we're past that like Dotson Yerkes curve or if you've read like On Combat.

Corley: Right. Andrew Pristak: Oh was that Grossman You know, you're past where your optimal environment is. Corley: You've lost that type to you're leaving code red according to two percent. Andrew Pristak: Yeah, we're going we're well into code red. Yeah. And the vibration though has the fun side effect of the heart rate won't come back down. So normally I would what what would you do in in training? You know, you're running stairs or you got them on a bike or something. Now, okay, now go flow in advance. You you would take a second, catch your breath, or at least you know you can force your heart rate down if you practice that. High vibration though will not let your heart rate settle back down. So we can induce hormonal tachycardia which is you know starts gating out fine motor, right, right hearing which is different than just the physiological aspect of getting your heart rate up. Yeah, it's not just I'm I'm on a bike. Not just I'm winded and so we can induce that. Again, I caution people before doing that. One, hearing protection is huge. But two, like you can you can screw somebody up training wise if you do that too early in the process. We were very careful about how we did it. But that's how we simulate stress. Now forcible entry is a little bit easier to do that with than most skills because it has to be in one very confined environment.

Corley: Right. Andrew Pristak: You would have a hard time doing that. I'm sure somebody could figure out a way to do it for something else, you know, ladders or fire attack or search, but Forceful entry at works outbreak. Yes. Yeah. No, we had monitoring going on. Right, right. No, it's amazing. But that's how we that's how we do stress. in our class. And it works out really well because I can tell you exactly what you need to go practice on because I can see what drops out over the three or four forces that you do over about an hour period. So we were finding that a lot of guys as they're guiding the forks in and it's being driven in, they don't pull back enough And so we didn't emphasize that enough. So we can see where we need to change. Corley: Gotcha. Andrew Pristak: And then we can also tell them, hey, these were the things that you started, you know, your first one was great. Your second one was a little slower. Your third one You're unsure, you know, at this stage, you know, which way the tool goes, you know, direction it it travels or whatever. So we can tell them what they need to work on when they go back.

Corley: No, I love it. Andrew Pristak: Yeah. Corley: I mean everybody's heard it. You know, you you fall to the level of your training, you know, once things once things go sideways. When you when you when you successfully induce that hormonal tachycardia You actually watch them drop back into like Lizard Rain and fall back into what they know what they know and you can sit there and checkbox it almost like oh look at this. Look what they didn't do. Andrew Pristak: Yeah, so the another thing that goes along with that is we we bought a bunch of 2016, I think, refurbished iPads. Because they're like $150 a piece. Corley: Okay. Andrew Pristak: and a $25 tripod from Amazon. And we film every evolution because it gives us not only the ability to scrub through. If I wanted to, I can do it in slow-mo And then when they're done with the evolution, I don't have to panomime out what that student did and try to tell them like, hey, well, you kind of did it this way. If you could try to do it that way. And then they, you know, can argue with me that no, I didn't do that. I can just show them, like, come here, let's go, let's see the practice film.

Corley: Here's the film. Andrew Pristak: And I can scrub through and like, here's the moment where you know, your arm drops down before you go to to shoulder the bar or whatever, or your hand placement, you know, you're losing six or seven hundred pounds of force. because your hands are in front of the the shoulders of the forks instead of on top of them. You know, that kind of a thing. So it's it's something we've we've added in. I don't I don't know of anybody else doing that, but it's been hugely successful for us And for fairly cheap. Like my my engine carries a an iPad for is an MDT. It cost me very little to get a tripod and now if I'm practicing, I don't know, Niwok pushes out in front of the bay or whatever, I can film myself and see what I'm doing wrong and what I'm doing right. Corley: Love it, brother. I absolutely love just let's just go look at the film. Andrew Pristak: Mm-hmm. Corley: This was coming from Garrett Garrett up in Idaho. He sent it to my watch. actually he said hey it won't let me ask this question. Andrew Pristak: He texted me a second ago. Yeah.

Corley: Okay, okay. Garrett wants to know. He said, hey, it won't let me ask this question. I asked Andrew To touch on it and he said mention it in the comment, but it won't leave me. Anyway, I don't have a channel. Can you ask Andrew about the history to the TD30 bar and how it became what it is today. So there you go from Garrett off the watch. Thank you, Garrett. But go ahead. The TV 30. Let's hear about it. Andrew Pristak: Okay. So it Corley: I think and and for those who don't know, give us a tell us what the TD30 is first. Andrew Pristak: Okay, so it's a it's a single piece forged 30-inch bar that council tool makes. There's one over for the people watching on YouTube, there's one over top of my head right now. but so probably 20 it was 2018 I was in the axe junkies Facebook forum being kind of a dick. And somebody posted it's a great forum if you if you want to learn like just minute details about axes from some people who are really, really anal about them. But somebody posted a picture of Council Tool at the time made a eight-pound axe that was really 10 pounds. It was horrifically lopsided. It was on kind of a pickaxe handle. And someone it had like this awkward top locking slot to it. And there was one in the the station I was living at at the time. And This I I was I saw it and I was like, that thing sucks balls. and the the guy who posted it was like, oh really? Well You know, what do you think's wrong with it? And I responded with like five pages of what I thought was wrong with this this axe. And He was like, oh, you think you could do better? I was like, yeah, yeah, I kind of do. I mean, I've never designed an axe before, but I'm I'm pretty sure I could do better than that thing. I didn't realize the guy worked for council. It was Craig Roost. He's in the chat right now, I think. So he's texting me so we ended up talking for like three plus hours on the phone about axes because they were, I guess, going to redesign their six-pound axe and you know what would go into a a much better because like a six-pound axes you know you have the piglet and you have the the council fe six which Craig and I working together kind of eventually became but there aren't that many good six pound tools on the market.

Andrew Pristak: There just really haven't been historically. So he and I, you know, talked for like three hours. about axes and then I was like and your halligan bar needs to be redesigned too and he's like one thing at a time I was like no you're it's and anybody who's ever used one Council made like contract bars too for like Akron, if you ever see the old Akron Tri bars where it was the big Shepherd's Crook ads. and He and I worked together on on the FE6 and then in probably 20 late 19, early 2020, They were up for the dies for the the halligan bar too. So we we got a chance to redesign that. And it it's a weird process trying to design a tool from scratch. because like a lot of us can critique something. We can look at it and be like We can say what we don't like. Yeah, I can I can tell you what I I hate about this thing I might be able to tell you a little bit about how what I like, but I can't tell you necessarily what would be better. Luckily, like we we put a lot of thought into it. We had some some really good feedback from from some some incredible firemen. The goal was the the thinnest bar that we could make. And if you if you look at the ads on them, they are like a quarter inch at the thickest point. we wanted a a rampless adds and forks so there's no no bevel cut into them. I wanted a a 30-inch radius arc so that the distance between the tip of the forks and the tip of the ads And then the tip of the forks to the ads pole, the side you would strike to drive the ads in is the same. Okay, okay so that I could lay it out on a an outward swinging door. into the the reveal between the door and the frame with the forks on the door and it would steer itself in between the door and the frame. I didn't have to steer it.

Corley: Gotcha. Andrew Pristak: So stuff like that. We we wanted A lot of people mark like the the crotch on their forks is like how far you need to drive into. Well, if you look into the math though, the optimal mechanical advantage without the tool slipping out is actually midpoint of the forks, not the crotch. The crotch is just an easy landmark. Corley: Sure. Andrew Pristak: So instead of having it was we already knew we were gonna tune it. So we were gonna cut depth gauges and stuff into it anyways. So we decided we'd mark an inch and three quarter for the door for the door and then mark the midpoint of the forks. And then one of the things we we noticed under like high-speed photography was that as the bars were being struck in, because the forks are curved, They would actually and like it was putting an eccentric load onto the the bar. It was actually spitting the bar out to the side because you could hit in line with the shaft, but the forks weren't in line with the shaft So it would it would actually like push the bar a little bit each time it was it was struck. So we actually moved the forks More to so that the tips were in line with the the midpoint of the shaft.

Corley: Or the transfer of energy from the strike. Andrew Pristak: Yep. Okay. Corley: Okay. This one I'm tracking so far. Andrew Pristak: Yeah. The ads, so if you ever look at like the pro bar, especially, well most of the bars on the market, they're they go from an inch and a half at the the base of the ads to two inches at the end Right? Corley: Okay. Andrew Pristak: Yeah, but they're flared out evenly on both sides. If you go to something like a maximus bar, it's two inches all the way down until it gets almost to the where it meets the shaft, and then there's this toe where it curves in. If you look at like the old wide azle bars, they were flared just at the very end. But if I this is kind of hard in like a audio medium to explain. Right, I did I've but we we went so the side opposite the pick on the ads is 90 degrees. It's all flared on the side towards the pick. So that when I go to put my ads into between the door and the jam, And I push away from the, like I cam the bar away from the pick, because I don't want to cam up onto the pick. It's unstable, right? the the fulcrum that I'm leveraging against is always supported. Again, this is hard to explain in an I think. Oh, very, very, very. But essentially the bar is less likely to roll out of the door because it's the fulcrum for the lever is always supported. And there was stuff like the the shoulders being squared off, the that and the the pick being fairly in line with the ads. So if you're gonna do that tripod, throw the ads and pick into the doorframe. At the same time, you weren't coming off at a weird angle when you go to pull back. There was a lot of thought that went into them. that's what I'm trying to say.

Corley: But nothing was done on accident. But it is hard to explain when you're when you're describing verbally what you're talking about. Andrew Pristak: So I mean for the visual people, I can pull one down off the wall, but Corley: No, you're good. You're good. Jeremy Locke wants to know, battery rotary, or 4. 5-inch grinder? What are your thoughts? Andrew Pristak: I think they both have their place. the I really like the nine-inch battery rotaries. they they're not full service. It's not replacing your K-12 or K-14 anytime. soon right but for being very compact and light one thing I took Andrew Broussard's metal cutting class I I'd wanted to take it for several years but I took it last week at firemanship and one thing I did realize about the one-handed sawzalls and then also the grinders, it's very hard to put like down force into the cut on a tool designed for one hand. But I hate it like I hate saying, well, they have their place without defining their place. but if I'm gonna like take window bars off a ladder, I'm I'm coming off with the the nine inch Rotary, right? It's gonna cut faster. you know, it's got more ass behind it. I can put more down force into the cut. The little grinders though for taking you know padlocks are awesome. I'm not gonna be able to cut a storefront door with an angle grinder or you know take carriage vaults very easily. But they they definitely you know if I do have to yeah remove a bunch of padlocks or something like that, I can I can do that pretty quickly and without a whole lot of mus and fuss with an angle grinder There are, I'm sure, some situations that I'm forgetting off the top of my head. But yeah, I'm definitely I our truck at work. has both. They keep the angle grinder in the driver's compartment. They keep the battery in the saw compartment. That works out pretty well. Just for where they oh sorry.

Corley: No no no you're good. You're good. I didn't mean to catch off. I thought Andrew Pristak: You're good. Corley: Derek 8 asking, do you see the rabbit tool being used much? Much what do you think? Andrew Pristak: So if you're gonna the what I generally tell people in classes when they ask about it is I'm not I'm not as much of a fan of the rabbit tool. The directional pump and the the two-handed or three-handed operation can get a little bit difficult. The hydro ram I think is a little bit more of a efficient tool. Sure. The maintenance upkeep and like the seals blowing out. I own one. It hasn't worked in a year because This old kit needs to be rebuilt. They're a little bit finicky and temperamental. They're really nice. for like, you know, you have a gas leak in a garden apartment and I need to open all of these doors right now or I think when we teach law enforcement they're tet like use scenario for that is like active shooter at a nursing home and now we have to open all the locked doors in this place. You know They're not waiting around for keys, but also if they go with conventional irons, chances are they're going to be exhausted by the end of this. they're awesome. If you have everything else that you could possibly need, you know, like for the man who has everything, you know, go buy a hydraran. They're expensive for what they are.

Corley: Right. Andrew Pristak: They generally get fairly limited use. don't get me and like the the teeth tend to bend before the the tool is maxed out. I I know there's one on the market that's off of like a worm gear now. I can't remember its name. I think Miami might have bought them, if I remember correctly. those I could see eventually being a little bit more useful. It's often like a planetary gear and a worm gear. like for a lower maintenance cost. But they they have their their spot. It's just I wouldn't spend the money on it if you didn't have like Corley: Extra. Andrew Pristak: You were missing something else in your in your tool complement, if that makes any sense. Corley: Council Tool Company, USA, wants to know which type of tools should we focus on next? Andrew Pristak: Oh, Craig already knows this. I guess I keep telling him. Yeah, yeah, probably. So once their hook comes out, spoiler. I would like to see them do a lock puller. Probably an improvement over the rex. Corley: Okay. Andrew Pristak: Yeah, the the original machine did now cast variations of the rex are fairly bulky. Some of the angles could probably be improved. I know there are probably people in this chat that would like to see them do some a variant of the pickhead. Which I think there's probably a place for something like a modernized version of the the Colin Seagrave from the the 1930s that was like What's it called? Colin Seagrave was like the the original really awesome picture. head roof axe they're still getting used if you can if you can find them yeah they're very popular out on the west coast too but i would I would definitely like to see a lock puller

Corley: There you go. There you go. I think we touched on the algorithmic approach to training. Can you tell us about your and JJ's physics of forcible entry class? This is from Clay McGee. Andrew Pristak: Oh, okay. yeah, no, he should definitely come take it. I think we're the next one we're doing is in October. in Anderson, South Carolina. so it's it's three hours a lecture. mostly talking the How your tools work and how you work. So your physiology, your psychology, the physics of the tools. And then we spend Probably so the next like seven hours and then a good bit of the next day just getting reps working plan A, plan B, plan C. Right. And always teaching it in series. So if I'm going to go on the fire ground and I'm going to hit the door really hard right on top of the lock, which is my plan A on an inner swinging door, I need to teach that first. And then every time that we do plan A, plan B, plan C, it has to be done. So I don't want to panomime it. I want to set up the door so that I can hit it really hard and have it fail. Or succeed, whichever one I'm doing. and then I'm, you know, go to plan B. I'm gonna go to ads work. Sometimes it would, you know, I teach it second because we're going to do it second. And then we do it, you know, plan A fails, plan B succeeds. And then we do plan A and plan B fail Plan C succeeds. So we do reps and reps and reps. You'll force hundreds and hundreds of doors. And then we do a tool lab, which is pretty much everything on the market and a lot of things that aren't on the market anymore. And we pair random tool combinations together. And since you've had you know 10 out plus hours of just forcing doors with the same sets of tools, Okay, now what did you feel differently that time? And what design elements in that tool changed the force? We do some confined space work and then we do stress evolutions as well, the the bike and the shed. So right on.

Corley: Right on. Yeah. Sounds very exciting. Now I'm not even sure I was going to bring this topic up, but I'm going to bring it up because you said I always ask my guests, hey, what topics do you want to talk about? And you sent me this topic. You said, if you feel like getting hate mail, which is always a great start for any topic, period. Period. Andrew Pristak: But if you feel like getting hate cancelled. Corley: No, I know, but I'm very this is a this this one's close close to my heart and soul and there's a lot going on with it. But You said this, and I'm and we'll just talk about it because I'm not sure which direction it's going, but that's why we talk. That's why we talk. I'm convinced our suicide and cancer rates are lower than we think and can prove it mathematically and statistically. So that's your yes, that's where we'll start and we'll go from there. Andrew Pristak: so I I am I I have if you if you deep dive into the numbers on that so starting starting with suicide and I don't mean to on either of these topics I'm not trying to make light of this

Corley: Right. Andrew Pristak: I have, you know, the best chief I've ever worked for is off the job for cancer. Best captain I've ever worked for recently had to go out for a couple months with cancer. I've lost friends to suicide. I've lost friends to this job. I'm not trying to make light of it. But I think in the same way that it doesn't help if we've got someone yelling about losing hundreds of firemen a year going through roofs and so don't do vertical vent. It doesn't help us if we're saying numbers That are wrong. We're misallocating resources that way. We focus on problems that either yeah that We end up treating the problem in an unrealistic way because we're not treating the actual problem because we don't know where to put our resources. So the The current suicide rate for firefighters in the U. S. is 18 per 100,000. And we can say that yes, that is higher than the general population, because that's 13 per 100,000. Corley: Okay. Andrew Pristak: The problem is Corley: And I'm taking what is yeah, I'm taking your numbers because I'm these are not verified numbers, but I'm taking this was as of last year.

Andrew Pristak: Fair. Corley: Go ahead. Andrew Pristak: Go ahead. Yeah, according to the National Institutes of Health, this was last year. I would pretty much assume they haven't changed that much. The problem is the fire service is 90 to 95%, depending on whose numbers you use. Male. I think Bureau of Labor said 93%, I think, when when I looked it up last year. Older white males have the highest suicide rate of any population in the country. Males in general have a higher suicide rate than anyone. It is, sorry, I have I have notes on this. 27 per 100,000. If the general population, just accounting for gender, had the same disparity that the fire service has, our suicide rate would be 25. Corley: 8 per 100,000. Andrew Pristak: It is significantly less than and that's just accounting for for just for one thing just that not not blue-collar workers, not by age. Corley: Right, right. Andrew Pristak: It's just by that. And it makes sense if you think about it, because we have all of the protective -oh, hold up Yeah, it would keep someone from doing that built into the job, right? Corley: Hold on, back up. Give me a give me a rewind of 10 seconds. You robotted out, but you came back.

Andrew Pristak: Ten seconds Oh sorry about that. Corley: no go ahead. Andrew Pristak: So it it makes sense though. Yeah, it makes sense though if you think about it. We have all the protective factors that would keep someone from doing that, kind of rolled into the job, you know, the sense of purpose, the belonging, the institution. And I again I'm not trying to make light of this. I I'm personally kind of it it offends me a little bit when I hear like, oh, we're we're doing this to ourselves, we're we're killing ourselves or each other. You know, at the an astronomical rate I heard the other day. It's not an astronomical rate. I just I don't want to see it out of proportion and And talk about it in ways that aren't helpful, if that makes any sense. And it is similar story on cancer. The especially like we're talking about we're we're getting cancer from smoke from house fires. If you ask the the National Institutes of Health, our cancer rate isn't any higher than the general population. IFF says, well, there's a difference between what the IFF will tell politicians and local government and what they'll tell their own membership. It's like 14% higher fate risk of death and nine percent higher risk of diagnosis lifetime. That doesn't sound like the 70 plus percent that I've heard from a state IFF representative. and the it that kind of makes sense too that If you look at the National Institutes of Health data, we're slightly higher for certain cancers and our risks are slightly lower for others. But I think some of it comes down to kind of really bad math where we're not accounting for demographics. I saw one, it's it's at the State Academy in South Carolina That it was a poster that said that we're at double the risk of testicular cancer.

Corley: Right, yeah, yeah. Andrew Pristak: And it doesn't say where those numbers come from And the best I can tell, and if somebody can prove me wrong, I'll gladly retract this, but it appears that again, this the same gender disparity got them, because what does half the population not have? Testicles. Corley: Right. Andrew Pristak: So that would account for double the risk. You know, if you it's a rounding error off of that. So I just I don't want to see us go down a rabbit hole pushed by bad numbers. I want you know it problems to be addressed in a in an accurate and helpful way. Corley: If that yeah No no no you're very you're very respectful in your arguments. Like when I I I was I was I was hesitant to ask the question because you never know what where where someone's gonna go with it. But no, very respectful in your arguments. And if we can't discuss something and talk about the numbers and talk about the causes and talk about I mean discussion is where the answers lie period I don't care what what hot button topic we're talking about if we can't have a discussion about it then we are doomed for ignorance

Andrew Pristak: So it's the same way as going into talking about like deaths from search. Yes. You know, how many have there been in the last 15 years? Right. Especially from a window, but VES is too dangerous. Right. Right. Vertical vent is too dangerous. How many people have died doing it in the last 10, 15, 20 years? Corley: When properly wearing their you know your PPE, yeah, absolutely. Andrew Pristak: Exactly. safest place on the fire grounds, on the roof. So It's in the same vein as that. I don't want to see us, you know, you have departments that are putting their air packs in outer compartments and slowing down their responses. I think Ben Schultz in a lecture I saw a couple years ago put it best, like how long are you going to stare at the child at the bottom of the swimming pool? Corley: Yeah. Andrew Pristak: You know, if I'm gonna get off the rig and stare into a house with people trapped while I put my my gear on Because I'm afraid of something that does exist, but it is so the rhetoric and the actual numbers do not meet up And I hate to see the people that we're sworn to protect suffer because we're using inaccurate numbers and it's and it's causing fear-mongering.

Corley: No, beautiful. No. And again, I I I sound like I've run these numbers and no, but if that I mean, brother, it's a it's a compelling argument and it needs a discussion. It needs a discussion. And you brought it forward into the light and said, let's discuss That's all you did. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And I it is a hot button topic though, so it's always fun. I don't want to say fun. It's always Interesting to see how it responds when it's brought into the light to be discussed. Andrew Pristak: Again, I'm not trying to speak ill of anybody. I'm not trying to say that there there aren't problems here Right. I'm saying that the way we're looking at them is skewed. And I think it is going to cause us to make mistakes as a service if we don't correct that Corley: Well, if we make our decisions based off skewed data. Andrew Pristak: Yes. Corley: Yeah. No, and and the only way to the only way to avoid it is to have the discussion and say, are we looking at this correctly And and I think both no matter which side of the argument you're on, if you can't say, hey, I'm willing to look at the data and and say, okay, hey Yeah, let's look at it.

Andrew Pristak: If you're not willing to do that, then I'm more than happy to be wrong. I mean i if I'm wrong it it does mean that we're we have bigger issues than I I think we do, but you know, I'd I'd be happy to be proven wrong on it. It just it NIH Mayo Clinic I'm trying to think who else I was getting my data from. I'd have to go back and look. I've got it cited. I just I want to see us use I want to see us be right and and go in the right direction. Corley: I love it. I really do, man. And I if the one thing I want to encourage on the scrap is a discussion. and a and a positive, healthy discourse on all issues related to the fire service and moving it forward and doing what is best for them and for us. So absolutely. With that, it takes us to one of my favorite topics. Books. And you already mentioned Daniel Conman and Thinking Fast and Slow, which a lot of people don't even reference it because it's not a it's not a It's not an easy read by any stretch of matters. It's a great book though. No, it really is. It really is. It changed my mindset towards a lot of things But what book or books, doesn't have to be fire service related, what book or books do you think firefighters should be reading?

Andrew Pristak: So when I get a new rookie, the last couple of them, I give them two books to start with. And it's more of a a cultural brainwashing kind of a thing. I give them a cop I have a copy. I can't remember. Corley: Oh, we'll lose you. Hold up. Okay, just checking, just checking. Holding up, we're waiting. I hope Solid freeze. Hey everybody, how are we doing? He is getting ready to he is getting ready to let us know what those two books are because I was kind of excited to know what they are are because I love when people tell us about books, but I even love it more when it's something they actually live and and share. Any luck andrew I hear you, but you're not moving yet. Keep talking, baby. Keep talking Come on back to the light. Andrew Pristak: so I'm working on it. There's nothing I can do. I'm out in the middle of nowhere. Corley: Well, and there we go. Maybe the end of the scrap. May see if we get a stand in. Gone, gone. One thing I love is when people actually tell I'll be giving I'm gonna give him a couple minutes. I'll talk. I'll sit here and ramble for a few seconds just to kind of if anybody's out

Andrew Pristak: I I can throw myself out to them so you can talk to me if you want. Corley: But you add you could absolutely throw yourself in there if you feel like it, Sam. Everybody loves Sam. But we'll see if we get we if we get any back Andrew Pristak: Yep, you're back. Okay, sorry about that. Corley: Welcome back. I don't know what happened. All right. Hey, I was really excited because you were telling us about two books you give to your rookies and then it went Right when you were telling us the thing. Okay. Andrew Pristak: So start with the name. So I 10,000 alarms. I can't remember the guy's first name, but it was Hamilton. It's his autobiography. He was the most decorated firefighter and fd ny. he was a lieutenant at the time. And then The the second one and that that one's really fun because it's how the some of the rescue company operations started to evolve and like where they come from. And also like it's a is a really good warrior story. It's been out of print for forever. It's hard to find. It's stupid expensive. But I I've got it. And so I I give it a copy to my rookie. And then B Shifter by Nick Brunicini. I would never take tactical advice from the man, but he it's one of the funniest things I've ever read, but it's a it's a really good kind of indoctrination into the dark humor. Okay. The culture, the and like parts of it are heartbreaking, parts of it are again that they're hilarious. So I I start with those two. Nice. And 10,000 alarms is very hard to get a hold of.

Corley: I'm going to be clear to me. Andrew Pristak: Incredibly hard. Corley: Yeah, it's very hard to get a hold of. Andrew Pristak: Now there is a PDF copy in the BroDrive. Corley: Oh really? Okay. Andrew Pristak: Yes. I think currently I have George, my rookie, reading mind of fire. Corley: -oh. Mike check. Mike check. Mike check. Andrew Pristak: Did we listen? Did we lose me? Corley: You're back. Andrew Pristak: Am I back? I I don't know what's going on here, so Okay, we're fighting through the internet issues. Corley: We're hey the scrappers are used to it. Believe me. If you listen to the scrap, you know we put up with the internet issues. It's a live show. There's nothing you can do but put up with the internet. Yeah And it is 20,000 alarms. Richard Hamilton is the name. 20,000 alarms. Richard Hamilton. Andrew Pristak: Yeah. Corley: So high number of alarms. Go ahead. Andrew Pristak: Yeah, yeah. yeah, Mind of Fire by Kyle Samsung. I would highly recommend it. It just came out. Sources of Power by Gary Klein. Yeah, that's a great one. Corley: I will say it's a great. That's a tough read because it is he has so many models in there, it makes my brain hurt Andrew Pristak: It it will do that. But yeah, that's off the top of my head where I would go.

Corley: Yeah. Beautiful, brother. Absolutely beautiful. Which takes us to one of my favorite parts of the scrap, which is the five questions for firefighters. It's been going on for a long time. And it's currently at version four. Five questions for firefighters version 3. 3, the third iteration, version 3 of the third iteration. And basically It is no right answers. It's just your opinions, and the points are arbitrary, assigned by me with the help of the studio, the live studio audience. So with all that being said, Cody Brooks said, what was before sources of power. It was Kyle Samsung's new book. What was it called? Mind of Fire? Andrew Pristak: Yes. Corley: Mind of Fire. Am I saying that? Andrew Pristak: You can get it on Amazon. Corley: You can find it on Amazon. Gary, Gary Klein. Kyle Samsing. Mind of fire. So there you go. All right, here we go. Five questions for firefighters. What is the skill that has carried you through your fire service career? Andrew Pristak: So this is gonna sound a little weird. learning how to learn. I I think most people don't realize whether it's like an intellectual pursuit, you know, like not just studying, but reading comprehension. being able to to pick up the the point that's being made, critique, text. Like that's a learned skill. being able to and then on like the psychomotor skills side being able to analyze your own body mechanics and be able to critique yourself is like the bedrock of like autonomous phase learning and and getting yourself to mastery. You're not doing that without being able to critique yourself right and then you eventually get to the point where you can critique others but that in itself is a learned skill And being able to learn how to to provide like I I love Aaron Fields for this because his his point about being able to provide your own like grid to hang your experiences on so they're no longer random experiences, being able to associate experiences and pattern recognition, those are all learned traits. creativity is a learned trait. So being able to like learning how to to learn, I think, is probably the thing that's helped me the most. I don't know how much sense that answer makes, but I'm sticking to it.

Corley: I love it. I it doesn't matter what I think because Dan Bitter said critique yourself for max points. Josh Everett said that's not weird at all. Max freaking points. So I agree. I kind of equate it to you have to have the humility to be able to critique yourself and learn. And I love humility so you know it's max points. Robert Ramirez says learning is absolutely a learned skill. Solid answer. Rob Ram, I didn't know you was in here. I want to I'm gonna pick your brain on the hormonal induced tachycardia And and talk about that at some point because I really do love that that concept. Max points, easy on number one. So we're out we're out the gates. We're running strong. Number two. It's job town. It's time. You are in route and responding. You got to think of the scene from backdraft when he's jumping on the rig and they're slapping that tape into the cassette deck. What song are you playing in route? Andrew Pristak: some aging punk rock kid going Los Angeles is burning by bad religion. Corley: Bad religion. Los Angeles is burning. Is that the is that our first official like true punk?

Andrew Pristak: Sam is saying I I can go way more obscure. Corley: We can we can No no we had we had the like what was it called the paramet who was what was what was that pass Sam says this is first true mainstream punk. So there you go, max points. Well I'm I can't wait to go and actually check it out on the Spotify playlist number three you got max points two for two two for two max points we got some bad religion we had some learning what is your favorite fire service tradition Andrew Pristak: so this this is far less off the wall. cooking and eating together. Corley: Yeah. Andrew Pristak: I love to cook as it is, but like the the preparation, the the bullshitting, the I the the community, the camaraderie. I love that part of the job. And Crews that don't eat together just are the saddest thing I've ever seen. I feel so bad for them. And also going out is expensive, so Corley: 0926, saddest. I gotta I gotta timestamp. I gotta write it down for later. Saddest thing. Saddest thing. I got a timestamp because that's a great answer, man, brother. Cooking and and and eating together. The kitchen table, first of all, is strong.

Andrew Pristak: Oh yeah. Corley: So much so that we almost took it out as a you you're not allowed to say that. But you you said it so well with cooking. And because there there is the whole, man, you're cutting up those vegetables, you do this, I'm gonna be out here on the grill, we're gonna come together, we're gonna make this thing happen and then we're all gonna sit down and break bread and then the tones drop and it's all steaming and we leave and it come back and it's all cold. There's just this hole that doesn't exist anywhere else. Andrew Pristak: Yeah, no, definitely. A couple weeks ago we were all sitting out on the the front bumper of the engine in front of the grill. I think we were listening to blues and you know, watching people drive by and it on a good summer evening you can't beat that. Corley: Jared Van Eck said he's selling himself short. He's a gourmet cook. Andrew Pristak: I cap. I'm the only person who can get him to eat fat. Corley: You can make Jared eat fat? Andrew Pristak: That I can. Corley: Man, the dude has like a 2% body fat. Andrew Pristak: I can make him eat cheese.

Corley: Oh, really? All right, number four. Three for three, max points. We're going to number four on the clock. This one you get one minute to answer. Andrew Pristak: Okay. Corley: Who are the four people you would put on your Mount Rushmore of the fire service? Andrew Pristak: It's my Mount Rushmore. I'm going to put the people that affected me the most. So Andy Fredericks. Sean Wilson from Royal Oak, Michigan. Aaron Fields and Sam Hittle. Corley: Damn. I'm sorry, I'm still writing. Sam has it at 16 seconds. It's a it's close for I don't know if it's the fastest ever, but it's damn fast. Frederick Fredericks Wilson Fields and Hiddle. There you go, the Mount Rushmore, according to Pristac. So you're four for four. Yeah. Council Tool said outstanding answer. Bobby Luttrell said max points. Andrew Pristak: Hey Bobby. Haven't heard from you in a long time. Corley: Number five. Here we go. Heavy fire, searchable space. Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on VES? Andrew Pristak: As much as I love you know popping in windows and doing truck work, there is a godlike moment. running a line down a hallway, you know, fire licking out and watching the entire environment kind of turn back on itself. and start going back into the room. Like real nice hot fire, not a whole lot of smoke in the hallway, but you get that jet plume coming down. There's a moment in there that is just the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. And anytime I get to experience that, I'll take it.

Corley: There you go. And that makes it five for five. Pristak crushing the five questions for firefighters. Max points across the board. Jared Van Eck said water always wins. Hey, there is no right answers. It's just his opinion. We just want to hear what he thinks. And we agree with what you think because you got five for five. And that officially puts 255 scraps in the books. My brother, Andrew Pistak. Thank you for joining us this evening. If someone wants to get a hold of you for more info, how can they go about doing that? Andrew Pristak: I am semi-on social media at Tradesman Fire and Fabrication. And think we finally got emails working for our website. So Andrew at Tradesmanfire. com, you can send me an email. Yeah. Beautiful. Corley: Pretty easy to get a hold of. Sounds like it. the vigilantes. Go to firehousevigilance. com. If you're not a vigilante, ask yourself why you're not Go be a part of it. It's amazing. The Vigilantes now has annual memberships. The scrap after party will be right after the scrap. Andrew has agreed to come in there and be roasted by the Vigilantes. We'll see what actually happens because it never works out that way. Next week. Next, yeah, he says bring it. There you go. There's the challenge. He threw down the gauntlet Next week it is the double header. I don't think I've ever done this before, but back to back Monday next week. Brian Lloyd coming on Mr. Smoke Oklahoma. He is coming on. We're gonna talk to him It's gonna be an amazing it's gonna be an amazing scrap by itself and then the very next day back to back Monday and then Tuesday Dave McGrill and his father are coming on the scrap both for a I don't know if I manif there's ever been a scrap like that with both of them on there. So I'm so excited about it. Monday, Brian Lloyd. Tuesday, Dave McGrill and his father. And then Wednesday, as if all that wasn't enough, Wednesday is the forum with Chief Frank Lieb coming in to talk to the vigilante. So if you want to be a part of that, make sure you're a vigilante. So all that being said, next week is is is shape it up to be amazing. Go get signed up. Be a part. What a crazy week.

Corley: It will be 2024 is going to continue in style. Vigilantes. If you're going to be a part of the after party, Sam is posting the link right now So get ready and please please please roast Andrew or if you don't want to roast Andrew roast Andrew's mustache those are the those are the rules let me see if I got any other announcements. I think that's it. The book of search. Hey, I'm full throttle. Firemanship is in the rearview mirror. Andrew was there. It's now in the rearview mirror. It was killer time. It was. I'm going to say this. If it happens next year, which I think it will, because it was, I think it was successful. I think, man, be there. It was worth being at. It was unbelievable. So, but Firehouse in the rearview mirror, Book of Search is 100% full throttle in the gun sites. Gonna be out by November 20th 2024. So be ready for it. Be excited about it. Audience, you make the scrap magical each and every week. It would not exist without you. Thank you all so much for tuning in live each week. Asking unbelievably kick-ass questions. I love you all. Remember, mutts don't scrap. I hope the tones stay silent unless it is burning. Everybody, stay safe out there